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title: 'The evening world. (New York, N.Y.) 1887-1931, October 14, 1912, Final Edition, Image 2',
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GET THE JOB DONE, BECKER'S FIRST ORDER SAYS WEBBER
KE E V E g I T 0 WOULD, 10 wD A7, OCTOBER 14, 1913.
beta u h mur I
ajrl. TUrlir. Uat'e dartgsrouo He
luiind: ' trying ta gM a wnit-
ru ataat br th.
rauown was a it. i
ta the Marti' I MM, 'AH MflM. Charier,
U tBafa the wmj jew roe, wa will do
rV Thn we separated and 1 returned
to my pokor room.
'On Jul? 10 Rook or railed mo at my
0AV0 IICKIR WAS IMPATIENT
AT DC LAV.
-Ho MM ho war tad to awa ma and I
at him at Fifteenth atraat and Fourth
eronue. In front of tha Union Hquare
Hotel. Ha MM. Iriajwi "That ara yom
reabte too aae. Why
Mam ersabtlf x eald.
to all Mac labia Mra
al. ton MB MUM o road It ta the
itjjirs any Any.' Than I wont away."
Q. What vara' you dome about
troaklng-' Roaanthal? A. Nothlnf ax
rant talk to Roae. to whom I had talkad
ho lor I told him I had Just loft
naofeor and that ha waa Terr anxious
to hate tha boya cat on tha Job and
aroafc ItoaeaUial. t told Rnae 1 would
help him and ho aald ha wouM aoa tho
bayf and hare tham kill Roaonthal.
Q. Did you make any plana? A Roia
aid ha would got tha gunman ond
anna tfeam to my plaoe Tbon I waa
ta And Roaonthal and bay waro tu do
a). Wnof A. "Iofty Louie" and
Q. DM you Kara any talk with Itonkor
the eight of tha Bam Paul natlngT A.
Too. Ha MM. "Damn II got an tho
aT wOftO FROM BCOKBR
Q. Om July U did vou meet HnaaT A
am Taa Ha oama to my aokar-room at 4 .
Bo. o'oioak and Mid Backer bad told him a
,br- Mtnuona waa out for four man tc go
rat, adfora Whitman to corroborate tha atory
Hjaj Jtaaantbal waa telling, about liceker.
bu. Taooe man ware "Dollar" Jona, "Aba
XH taa Ravallar,' "Aba" Hahlo and Itoae
k Jaok Roaa aald Hecker aantad me to
ta ato thoao man and 1 did. That night t
"' mw Becker and Jaok Sullivan In M idi
Ma Square Garden, but had no talk
with Mm. Then I want ta Bay poker
den and mat Ban aoJ. "BdUar"
J ana, "Lefty eVoala." "Waiter" X-ewle
la waa the frt mention of Ham
Paal'a name In oonnecUon with the
na -Wabbar waa talking In a voice rW
1 waa abaolutely woodan In Iti lack of
aanfMglon and freedom from paaalon
or amotion. Aa ba told of Beoker'a vill.
Crlaatlon and thraat agaJnat noaenthal
M a ad Bed hla tread and anapped hla
tana llpa by way of amphaala. Ilia little
btoM ajroa blinked and hla ayellda
twltabad aa ha got along to hla
aaaaant of how Backer had urged
taa "aroaklng" of the gambler, but
Ul Mw atlll hold Ita oald. paaalon
tena Bbya. Tao dafanaa waa ahoutlng
tory objoctlom. which wore l
by tha Caajrt. aava by a Bod of
band te overrule tham and an In-
njr lo the atenographar.
tlnulng hla atory of hla confer-
aaab with taa gunman, Wabbar oald:
WlBBIR 001 OUT TO LOCATE
"Oyp aakod If 1 had aaan Dago frank
at Knee. I aaid no, but juet at that
tima Boa and Dago Prank came up. I
them to my pokar roogi, where I
SEVERE TEST FOR WEBBER
ON THE CROSS-EXAMINATION
Mclntyre Forces Him to Admit He Ran Gam
bling Houses and an Opium Joint
Sticks to Main Story.
Mr. Mclntyre that
aba d treat examination waa ended, and
ran arteoner'a lawyer want after the
Ur and than almoat
Wabbar aald ha waa thirty-five yaara
old aad had been horn In tnte country.
Hla aarunta oama from Ruaela Roae.
Vattlen aad Jack Sullivan ware all
f rtanda of hat. ba. aad. and from time to
tuna ba had I ant tham money Ha know
Bam Scheppa, but had never loaned him
a dollar. Jaok Raaa bad never played In
hla (Webbur'a) poker room.
"Did you aver run a atUM game on
fourteenth alreet? " aaked Mclntyra.
"Taa, aad alao aa Thirty -fourth
Q. DM you aava a partner T A. T
Wabbar aald ha had a roulette place
at Ba. 1M Weai Fort t -fifth atraat. Brawn
waa hla partner there.
1 waa raided than by AJ Thomaa. the
Dtau lot-Attorney , aotwtlve I waa
raided Br Iatepeotor liughaa In my
Paarty aonrmd atraat talaca. I waa raided
WMBni' amllad aa ha aaid t hie. butt he
poke Jaat m loudly and olearly ava ha
had while under direct examination. He
uvoad hla haaita togeUiar again, threw
Bag ohea up aad held an attitude of
k allay or ant daAanoa.
INtlBTB ON GETTING DETAILS
OP THE RAIDS.
Backer'a attorney wanted apaclflc Baaa
tun of houM ralaa aaralnai Wauber'i
gambling ptawea, and the wltnw
"I waa raided twice on Fourteenth
: reat by Capt. MoDarmott. 1 waa raided
on. Thirty-fourth atraat by Cap;
F art ell."
"J. Did fob run any other aambllnv
HHUJiaT A. No. air.
Q What other bualnaaa did you hav.
-ealdaa gaantrllng? A. Nona. I re been
a m malar til my life.
4- DM you avar gamble In Herman
R nint karat a. No, air.
9. DM ha gamble In youra? A Pos
e lively no.
B) DM yta avar have a nlac tt No. I
ordered food for thorn At 1. 10 o'rlnrk
In tho morning, Itoee aaked mo where
lloeenlbal waa. 1 put on my hat and
went to tha Matropolo . Thar I oaw
Herman Roaenthal.' I raft bank to my
pokar room and told tho fallowa. Flva
f thorn loft Lofty Loulo, (lyp tha
Bloott, tiago Trank, Whits y La-wla and
a flftb man. 1 do not know who ha
waa. I atayad thera five mlnutaa end Mr. Molntyre then tried to pin Web
then walked to Broadway and Forty ber down to filing tha ttt lay and
- ir uirri. a i"
sninuiea. ana inon went oar to my
poaer room, i.ai.r i waiaan oar mtneyantn avenue, when Hooker .a iald
nroariway ana r0rIy.nrfn strset ana
moo tnr a -raw momenta J ri e ra I 1
heard that Herman Rosenthal had
bean killed a man told tae.
w What did you do after Oat "mv
Mtlon. 'j I wont on and met a man
name.i riarierty Wa got Into an open
barour.he and drove to tha Korty-aeventn
tract tallun. Then wa got out :md
anybody In tho etatl n
U. Did ynu
house A, No
g. Wnere did you go tbonT
A. To t io I
Q. Did you aae the body of Herman
Roaenthal that night? A. Taa, I did. Ii
aaw H lying to frimt of tha Matropole
Webber ald he went from the Cadlllar
Holal to i. la poker room, where ho mot
Jack Sullivan and ta'ked to him about
W- ''I'1 you aor er aaln that
nyfhtT A. Yea, at about 4 o'nlook A. M.
In front of tha door of my pokar room
Jarh Una. and Jack "ulllvan ware there.
"What did Booker do then?" athed
The wltneaa gnppad Wa llpa. gripped
the armi of the chair wirh hla bande and
tolkad In a t'rud volca i
AVA BECKER CONGRATULATED
THEM ON THE JOB.
"Becker." ba aald. "came up from
the nnraer af Blith aveane aad
greeted ma Mo aaldl "I cony rat
tUate yon. Wabbar, you have done
a good Job. ewaaaaaa got what ha
eeervea.' Than Becker epoke ta
Jaok Rooo and coagratuiateo him.
"Jack I Viae .
"'Whitman ! over, et the ela
tion hone end ha th auto num
ber' Becke ea'd' 'Vo, they en i
got the rlgbt number I aaw tha
lying there aad I felt Uke taring my
knife aad cutting oat hla toaeTue aa a
warning to future equeaure. Vow, tha
only talag to do to to keep tha fallowa
low. Tell them lo get out of tuwn.' Itoae
aald he had no money. Becker turned
to me: Brldgle. give Jack a Ihouaand
dollara and tliat will maka fifteen hun
dred dollare I owe you. Bay, fallowa, I
paaaad tha Cadillac la a may hiae about
1.30, and X aaid to my ohaageur, 'Cite,
(Avarai) If wa aaa that Roaen
thal, I'm gelag to back him Up agalnet
tha wall aad take a ahot at him. Than
you put on opeed aad keep going
"I aald, '(Vhar.ey, lhata't going It
be trouble.' Nothing doing.' ba aald.
I left lleuker abuut 4.10 In the morn
Ini: 4nd Jack lu.ee and I went to the
hatha At noon, I gave Jack floee the
thnun.tmt dollar for the gunmen and
than I left him." .
During a brief conference hetwfen
Mr. Moaa and Mr. Whitman Webber
puraod Hla llpa In a peculiar (mile a:id
looked at Hecker, who had been fidget
ing In hla ohalr and chewing on a
(J. Whore did you give Hoeo the
money A At Klgi.ih v-iuie and
Pali etrootT A. Tea. I ran an opium
Joint there two yeara.
Q. Did you have a woman there
named Bridget from wiiom you got your
name? A. No.
Q. What waa your Pall atraat place''
A. A plaoa where people came to amoke
Q. IMd you have atreot walker, de
generate and other of that etratum
come there" A. 1 did not know what
kind of people they wore.
Q. Tou know you were violating tha
law, didn't you. A. Tea.
Q. Do you tute opium or morphine?
A. 1 d not and never did. I never
amokad a pipe 1n my life.
Q. Yet you aold It lo other people
for large auma of money? A. Yea.
ROSE AND VALLON VISITED HIS
Q. Did Roae come tbere A Only
Q. Or Vallon? A. Yea.
Q. And Hohoppa? A. No.
Q Did Roaa and Vallon Ilea opium.
A. .No they came merely aa frlenda
of mine. Vallon came frequently, but
he neither erooked opium nor uaed mor
phine. U How many women came there
dally tu amoka opium? A. Several.
Q. Young or old? A. Women about
thirty or more We had no young
W How many men came there dally
to amoke opium? A. Twenty or twenty,
Heveral tlinea aa Mr. Mclntyra be
labored the wltneaa with oueatlona
Becker whlepered euggoatlona to At
torney Hurt Mho relayed them along to
the chief counael. Booker alao . rote
notai which he paaend acroaa the table
to the croee-examlner.
BECKER DICTATES QUESTION
"Old you have Chinamen come there?"
Bked Mr Mclntyre, reading the note
Backer bail paaevd to him.
"I'ertalnlr not," trlel the wlBMM
frownlruf h If the queatlon nad ill
W Dkln't t-'hlnamn come there with
whlto woman. A. Vn, lH IwltolHlf n"i
w Vou aay yoai mat Heeker with ltoe
When anl whar7 A. Dosens of time
. Tha firat tlmot A. Tha day fir
ha ralnVl It gambling ho.is.
Q Whfrt A. r7WMOwi,
4. When? A Iti the fall of laat yea.
Q. la your memory good or bad? A. It
la mighty good.
note or tna murder meeting " at One I
iitmdrod and Twenty. fourth n-r-n and I
rirat tn have branched , Webber
making' of Rnaeni'iel
ing It waa In tha latter part of Juno,
Webber rafuaed lo ba specific Ifo re
mombored the ttma of tha moating, ha
aald, henauae ha had an appointment
that rrfghl wkh a friend af twenty
W What wa Me name A "Itskv
That'a tha only name I over know him
by. Ha la a gamblor who hanga out
on Second avenue, moatly In tha Crye-
(at. You knew Mm twenty yeara and
Mai kno ' name? A That'a tha
, oniy name I avar knaw him by.
MAy wttK TO PROVE AN ALIBI
Mr Mrlntyra kept poundtna; at tha
wltneaa for the gajltj data. In an ap
parent effort -If he could pin tha wlt
neaa to a ileflnlta data to prove that
Ueut Becker waa not In Harlem on
that night. , Hla inoet adroit qncetinnlng
failed to get tne anaaer he dealred, ek
cept that It waa between June 17 and
July 1, 112.
Mr. Mclntyre tried hard to learn the
Mcnuty of ltk v, to aeoarlaln If I
there hud dieted an cnaage'nent that
night aMWaaB hlmaolf ajM Webber, but
"t nu aatlafactlon from tho quluk.
tlilnklng, faat talking gambling houea
Mr Mclntyre. holding In hla hand
notea of Webber'e dlioct examination,
Jumped from Incident to Inuldtnt.
without aequence. In an effort to trap
Webber, Lut the gambler'a anawere
were ready and glib, and :ha abrewd
attorney failed to catch Webber with
hla guard dow.t
Webber wua forced to admit that
Harry Vjlon. "no of the coneplratora.
wa the keeper of a roulette houe
at No. til Kaat Kourteentli elreet
Webber eld three of the gunmen
baSM to hi place on Haturday morn
ing July II, at : In tha morning
They were 'Lefty Louie." "lyp the
BlaBd" and "Dago Frank" lie eald
Nt had neen them only once before. In
the fafe li. mix Aria, at Kuurth alreet
and Hlxth avenue.
"lioae waa with tham," ha aald, "and
they had been aent for to got Jaok
F.ellg out of Jail.
Q. Waa Scheppa there? A. I do not
know, I paid very little attention to
Be lappa I never touk h!m Into my
U. Now coma back to tha morning
you aaw the gunmen In front of your
Placa why were thety there? A. They
wera looking for "Jack" Itoae 1 found
him at nulla', on Fourteenth atraat near
Third avenue and took him to tha
Lafayette Batha, where I had aent the
gunmen tu wait.
W. Did you dlacuaa the murder than7
A. I didn't.
Q- Who did? A. Itoae, Vallon and the
gunmen. They were talking of the mur
der of Iloaentlial.
MADE NO PROTEST AGAINST
Q. Tou knaw they were planning to
kill Roaenthal. Did you pruteat, or do
anything to aava him? A. No. air.
Q. Did you aend to Itueenthal and tell
Mm there wa a plot o kill hlmf A.
No. air; I did not.
J. Waa Bchuppa there? A. No, air; I
did not aoe him that night.
(J. Have you boon told that to oonvlcr.
Becker, arcornpllcea have to be corrob
orated by a puraon not In tha conaplr
acy? A. I never heard auch a thing.
VI. IMd you read that In the news
paper? A. I read very ltte In the
i .,., per about our caa I didn't
HAS NOT TALKED WITH ROSE
Q. Have you talked with Itoae abouj
corroboration, or told him what you
ere going to teaetlfy to? A. No. air.
It Dg yoi aay yau never dlacuaaed
tola BBS! with Itoae or Vallon? A Wo
dlacuaaed the gaSSj but did not talk
bout tho testimony were tu 4ve.
W. And yet you three have been In
prlaon together three montha and
haven't dlcued tho tea;lmony xiu
were to give on tho aland? A. That
I what I nld.
y Were you at the Oarden raetaunnt
one night when It waa propoaed to kill
Roaenthal? A. No air; I had told Itoae
I would go to ee If I could Ond Hoaen
thal. "Par what porpoae?' naked Kc
Xatyre. "Por tha porpoae of
mnrdarlag Merman Roaen
thal," aaawered Wabbar, with de
liberate amphaala oa every word.
W Why waaa'l Itoaenthal killed that
night? A. Itoae told the gunmen
there waa a Burn detective acroea
Q. Who eeni the gunmen there?
A. Itoae did, and thru kept them from
Mr. Mclntyro then tried tu force
Webber lo Ax the date of hla every
meeting with Becker, but failed.
ij Your memory la very bad about thla
., um't It? -A. No, air; It 1 very
Mr. Mclntyra took up a meeting be
tween Be.-ker unJ Webber at Lue.'howe
In Fourteenth tragi, ut o'clock I'. M
g. H'un'l thai I tie nlghi Becker no.i
niaile a rakl. and va there In th
reaiaurant with a Julge who w tn fix
a ball bond? A. Ye. Becaei bad
rakieil Sam I'aul.
y Wasn't Mnal'trnla M.-j !. rheru
to fix l'aul'a burl? a I do not kn
But I did have a talk with Booker that
night on Ponrta avenue, aad ha agraia
urgd tha murder of Boaaathal.
y. Ild you aay you would croak Bog
tStBalf A. Ye, 1 aald t would Uke
care of him.
y Were yon allocked? A. Ye. 1 waa
U Were you annoyed? A. Yee. 1 wa.
ANNOYED, BUT PROMISED TO
HAVE HIM SLAIN.
j. Ami ytet, shocked and annoyed, you
aid you would have Rosenthal killed?
T:ro Views of "Bridah" Webber,
Witness To-Day Against Becker
''vtls' ,i''i..mi&- . jn assssijaaaujJH
A. Yoa, I said so.
W. When run ware ahncked, aa ym
Mid, did you MCnmUBloatg o anyojily
your fullma A. No. air.
Q. You never h id any trinible with
Becker he had never raided you? A.
f4'. Wheh ybu We.re aaked to commit
thla murder did tt prio your con
science' A. Yea, air.
M Yet you worn .in, ,i.i and committed
the inic I. A To pleaae IJeut. u... k
J. Yet It prlcko) your .xinaclenoa a.
Yea. !r '
Webbar'a volca iltoppad and ha ah'ftad
In his chair llui there waau't any
i hatittc In hla exjnuiion As iia IttlBfgd
hla monoayllal'lc rripunse rre opened hit
mouth wide ami rolled the wordo on hla
tongue. After atari reply he ahut h: lip
lightly and drew dovn tho corners of
his mouth In M expression In w hloi
waa mlniileil a siieur u.nd a rmlle.
W. You aald Becker had rorolaed to
protect you? A. Yea.
tj. And you went ahead? A. Yes.
you weren't very
Q. Have you murdered other pMPltT I
A. No. air.
W. Or been a party to any murder?
A. No. ,
II 11 b .... . .
. ,,..e jiiii ever ihtii cunvicieu ol I
crime? A. No.
Q. Did you have anything to do with
killing 8punlsh Louie or Ivld Twist. A.
Q. Were you anxlnun lo have Itosen-
Ihal xlttln? A. No, sir.
y. He wa u bUgJoaBg rival of yours?
A. Ha waa not.
Q. Your Juw Wag broken, Hasn't tt?
Q. Did you tell people Herman Rosen
thal had It done by a thug? A. No, sir.
Q. Dili Roaenthal have It done? A
HAD BEEN UNFRIENDLY WITH
q. Were you and Rosenthal friendly '
A. No, we had been unfriendly for threo
q. Why? A. Because Herman Rosen
thal would borrow money and not pav
me back. Ho owed me thnusasid dol
lars. Q. Bid yon kill him bacanaa yoi
wera unfriendly to blm. A. Hot
beoanaa Talent. Bookar wanted It
q. Did you lell "Bheeney" John
Baker that RostBtlWl robbed a tue
houao of youra on Third uvenue? A.
No. air; I did Bel own the place. It wa
ownnd by llaryy Vallon. Vallon auld
It wae held up and robbed by "Tough
Tony." John Iluker and "Hpanlsh
Louie," but It did not Interaat me, for
It waan't my house
Hart the wiiin ag changed his position
again, placing the elbow of his left
arm on th arm of 111 chair and resting
his chin In the hollow of hla hand. He
held this BOM nhllc he answered a gnprt
or more questions.
Throughout the nrnn twtmlBMloa so
fur vTBbbt b id stood h Krllllng even
better tbtn ROM III replies were lea
evaalve ni nix curl denial more em
phatic Both lime and vYebbar arc wall
poken I h. y ,ieak Ri .iniinatlcally,
with aMroal) avar) break, and never
ue an) ilani lanfuapa in quoting
ASKS QUESTIONS ABOUT DAVE
U lo ytui know Hav, Msndallohnl
A. Yes, be work l ir mr.
J II look Ilka Jink Sullivan, dotan'l
he? A. Not Rluoh,
(J lie VAI nilli yell M the night of
the murdar, aaan'i be a no
WUt t MBBBa tale, et t reah Heel In
i .wt ' in 'or 'lie terk "l.liul ttllinley. O.I.
a .... . .tula per ioilJ. ',
Q Yo a'e trying o ahleld him, aren't
you? A. No, sir.
'J. lolng Sack ba your Broken Jaw !
didn't rou krU lacker that Itoaaothal j
hud apg Neatnn up? A. No.
bldr't you 'all tteckar Hoaanih!
took you ,1 in a 'an. ao aa to bid hla
part in IL A. No
Q Didn't you fall officer Val OTarrell
(tviw a detective for the dafenae) that
Itonenlhal hired Tough Tony Ferpaoel lo
hit you with brana knock? A. I did not.
j Yon knew Koaenthal was employing
Tough Tony m te Hamper ni'ih? A I
y Yon hlre Toaigh Tony to bea up
aome one dec. didn't yon A. No.
Wwhhor denied that he ever had any
thing to .In with Tongn Tony. Ho haI
never henrd h.?ioo-. Tough Tony helnir
hired lo So him, except whon Val O' Far
roll mentioned It to him.
CJ You never lunl any fear of Tleokor,
did yu A. No. air.
SAYS THAT PECKER
(J. Lecker had never done anything to
make you faar hUn, had lie? A. No.
Webber laid he hud never been In fear
of Hufr, Vallon or BCbtppg or any one
cle Mclntyra mentioned to him.
Q. Then you weren't actually Ir faar
0,JLt.A v ebtw.
, ,. ,,,.. a u..
I naiiitii f.wu Tiniiii ooi , ...
, , not eeu him ahortly before tha
Tel . e..r mnv 4n II. .K Smltlf "I '
W "'o o
rould '111 'ha' Rosenthal and lie down
alongside of his hody A. No, elr, oer-
The arllnMI "ld he bad never talkad
t Hmiui tboul Ptoaanlbal,
y lo yon Vnow lack HUlHVBB, whose
right name Is lacoh Belch ? A. Yr I've
known him about roiirtecn year,
y Did you know Bpantah Louie aho
wa BBUHlajradf A. Yes.
ii. Da vou know vim murdorad Span-
lab Louie? A. No, air.
y. lbl 'nii contrioute money to tne
man who killed him? A. No. sir.
q. Do you recall helnir culled upon to
contribute money to lha man who rilled
naalah I. ' A. That Is not ao.
Wabbar denied that lie had aval said
to a man oute'da the Metro ole tht he
ilelrel that Bosentlial be murderad aa
soon a the loo aotlld be done.
NEVER SAID SPANISH LOUIE
q. Do VOU know au oftlcer nameil
I lu ity.tn f A . Yes.
y. Did yoa ever ay to Officer Dugtrsn
Ih it your place wa robbed by Spanish
t.nule and TmiKh Tony, and that they
had been hlfad by Itosenlhul to rob
you? A. No, and It naan't my place
lhat was robbed,
Asked Vhotl place was robbed. Web
ber flubi he had heard of auch a roblien'
In YBJIOn'g place. The witness denied
that ho bad had an Interest In Vallon
y Were you on the Sam Paul outing?
A. Ye, with Vallon, Rose and ttchnppa.
y Was anyildng eald about offering
RoHenlhal un Interest In the Monopole
tuaa houfle on Second avenue? A. No.
y. Waa anything said about the mur
der of Hoaanlhal T a. Not one word.
y On that outing did you hear Roae
aay, "If Rosenthal anneals we will have
him killed before I e telle anything?"
q. IMd S hepps aay, "It la high time
ive cioaked li 1 iti unyway'.'" A. No.
y. I ld Sm I'aul any, ' It would make
loo much Route, Bookar woald know
we cioaked lliiMcnthal at'd BOIlId land
us?" A. No.
ij. Did Harry Vallon say "Oh. Bei iter
ha only one life and a bUllat might
eroak IMni j ii 11 a iuli- ;i lloimlhal?''
I A. Ni
i DISCUSSED GAMBLER'S SQUEAL
INQ AT THE OUTING.
J Wa ttoaenthars tiiieullng lis
OUgged on that puling? A. Yes
y. i)ii Vhappt dlteuat it? a. No; he
waait'i Intaraatad In uubiiug.
u, Bui Ita hangs around w.th gam.
j Mara' ' v.
lie ig knsBn n i.k Raaa'i ioiii-
,-n'l he' A I do not know.
Vou know Miai a lobby. gow ,t,
don't ynu A. Tas- lobh"-gaw la a
tnao a lo bang trthlrtd srd Mvas off an
QUESTION WAS SUGGESTED BY
Wckr had auggasted aloud to hla
outlet! to ak tha wltnaat If Sam
e-na waa net known a Vallont
q. Old ou report around thai Roaen
MhI -a -etponi.lble for the murder of
panlah saMMf A. No, -
Webber Senlod 'hat Roaanthal bad
ver 'aid to hint '.hat !f ha ; Wabbar)
f'.dn't rtop vcnalng tlm .Rnaan'.hal)
af T.at nurder ba mould lo somathlng
Webber aald ha waa arretted on tha
night of the murder and that ha had
denied to rominlnalontr Dougherty
that he participated In tha murder
y. You Mad whan you made that de
ntal? A. Yea.
q. Did you " a l.iwyar named
Marhnll thai night? A. Yaa.
"Now. Webber," aald Mr. Mclntyre.
"a lawyer rannot teatlfy concerning
what a client hat eald to blm. Are you
willing to releaaa your lawyo' and lot
him tell what you aald?"
Webber thought a moment amllad
and laid softly "No."
It waa 1 o'clock and Justice Unff aobeo
Mclntyre how long tl would (aite to fin
ish tha c roaa -examination
"An hour and a half," replied Mr. Mc
Intyrt," looking the cloclt.
"OS on. then." aald the Juatloa, "we
rill not have a reoesn.
Webber waa questioned at '.ma length
conce-nlng th etairment ha had made
to Deputy r'ommtagloc.er Dougherty.
Home of 'ha lurort mada It known that
they would Ilka to have luncheon and
Justice rtoff contented to take a receat.
COFF TAKES STEPS TO KEEP
After reteM Joatloo Ooff put In
force hit new regulation, by which no
one will ba admlttad lo tha tribunal
except upon the pratentatlon of a per
-oi.ni paaa laaued at tha order of tha
.luetic. Newapaparmbu and artlata
attending tho trial ware compelled to
surrender their police cards to Juatlce
QaJJFl man, the bearer of tha carl
fir. i being Identified Theae card
were than turned In to tha Court, ao
that tho name could be taken from
them for the paeae
Thla vai done, an tha explanation
want, to prevent undeartraaSlaa from in
vading tha tribunal. Raaorta had boan
made to the Dkvtrh-t-A'tornay that mem
bers of tha ganga war breaking Into
court and that thay ware thera for th"
purraae of Intimidating art'nessee How
they got in, tt arry auoh did tot In.-Is
a pofound myatery In view of the xrdoal
through which 'hoae entitled to admit
lon had tn tauaa faat ngh'lna 'riroag
'iter Carriers of "tnMromen, .hen through
nner rrlera, then paat Polloa Oaptaln
Tiemey and at laat throusb tha I Uvea erf
'he uourt ofneera
When Juatlce Ooff returned to hla
Place Wabbar waa called back to the
The wltneaa told Mr. Mclntyre after
he kad attandad lha tnnuaat In tha Cor
oner's office ha waa taken to tha
Tombs, fla Janlad that ha had aald tn
tha Tomb that Keeker bad any con
nection with tha murder.
Wabbar aald ba had navar exculpated
Becker In tn hla talk with Mr. Whit
man. q. When did you maka ynur ronfaa
alonT A. I don't remember tho data I
believe It waa In August.
q. Waa tt about the tima of tha find
ing tha tret Indlctmarrt, July It? A. I
don't remember Just whan It waa.
Vbber admlttad rhtt ha had talkad
to tho I natricl-Attorney before going
Into the Grand Jury Room.
q. DM you Inatrurt your lawyer ta toll
the Dlatrln-Attorney that you would be
come a wltneaa for the State If you
were granted Immunity? A. No, air.
Mr. Mclntyre brought out that tho
wltneaa had eigne.! a stipulation with
the Dtstrlct-Attornty. Wabbar aald he
dtd no t record what w aa In tbo stip
ulation. q. What were you piuinlaad for mak
ing y our eonfeaelon? A. Protection,
q. Protection by whom? A. Tho Courts,
q. Who? A. Judge Mnlqueen.
q Did you aae Judge Mulqueen? No,
my lawyer aaw him.
Webber tnalatod that ho had not
rend the atlpulatlon ha had signed
"Waa not that atlpulatlon read to
'Y'ea. It waa," aald Wabbor, quietly.
PROMISED IMMUNITY IP HE
TOLD TH! TRUTH.
"Now, what do you remember you
were promised In that atlpulatlon? pur
aued the lawyer
"I waa promised," wMBBBI Wab
bar, raising hla voice a little, "that
I would ba granted Immunity If I
told tha truth aad had not trad a
"la the prom lea of Immunity tha thing
that makea you lettlfyt " asked tha law.
An abjection waa autre rnad.
Mr. Mclntyra than called for tha nrea
entatl n of the tinned atlpulatlon, which
Mr. Whitman rofuaod tj produce unleas
directed by the Court. Justice Ooff ra
fuaed to order tho document proruced.
'Who alae atgned tho atlpulatlon?" he
Mr. Mclntyre f.mA vainly to ge the
Immunity stlpuia'.loB before the Court,
hut Justice Oof? ruled agakntt him at
q How long have you known Jack
r-illlvan? A. Ten yaara.
q. Were you In the Police Hetdqutr
tera a'tth Rulllvan. tared did you talk with
him? A. Yes. Wd were In the tame oell
(Of two hours nef rc I oonfatsed.
q. How long lie fore? A. Two weak
q.tDld you talk to him concerning a
tatement you wtra about to navko?
PAVINO THE WAY FOR CONTRA
q. lad you occupy a call In Che Want
Fifty-third alrewt Prlaon with Sullivan
A. Ye. for two weeka.
q. Ware Roeo and Vallon thera? A.
If any sort of -Hat
will suit you,
our story is of no
interest. But if
you are particular
you will wear
Derbies and Soft Hat , J3 (a 4
Yee. We met for twa houre
our walks, but I did not tarV to Sulli
van about this rate.
0 At any Mm, did you aay to flulll
van. "I have promlaed Jack Roae IS.noO
for him not to Implicate mo?" A. No.
kV Did you ever hoar Jack say: "Brld
fl. for 1od' Mke don't frame up?"
nd lid you nr. "I am on '.ha hand
Wagon. Rota Vallon and I are totar-
i Blned -hat ve nil 'rame the Mayor,
Waldo, Backer ir anybody elao to gat
UI of this thing" A. I positively did
tot ay nich a thing to Jack Sullivan
at any tima.
4. Old rou say anything Ilka that In
nbatanca, jr meaning the aame thing?
A. No. air.
Webber aald ha mw Sullivan tn tha
West Side prlaon tn Aug. .
q. Do you remember that you apokaj
to Sullivan than and said: 'Jack, I am
awfully sorry for you; you art In an
Innocent position?" A. Yes, air.
q. Did you aay: 'I am arranging with
tha District-Attorney to got Immunity
for myaeif. Roaa ond Vallon, and If you
want to, yvu can coma In on It with uk?"
A. No, air, 1 did not aay lhat.
Thua far Mr. Mclntyre had not brokein
down Webbar'a placid calm or wrought a
chatura In the axpraaalon of what, In
Webhar's elrole, might ba oairlad hla
ADMITS TELLING SULLIVAN HE
q. Tou did tell SuNlvan you fait that
h waa Innocent, didn't you? A. Tat.
q. Wtra Vallon and Rose present. A.
q Did you tall Jack Suflrvan you were
wllUng to sign an affidavit that he waa
Innocent? A. No air
"la he guilty?" was aakod.
q. Did Jack Sullivan aak war ho wa
aent to tho Watt Side prlaon. and did
you say 'It was tha IdM of tha District
Attorney to gat ut to talk to you'? A.
q. Did Vallon say. 'Now, Jack, If you
don't corroborate ua, we will never get
out Whitman will Indict ua for flrtt
degree murdar,' and didn't you aay Tea,
Jack, you Aad bettor corroborate us'?
q. Wara you preaent when Jack Rosa
received a nolo, and after which you
and Jack Roaa and SuKMvan tanked to
gather? A. I do not remember.
q. Dtd you tay to Sullivan. Tou'd
bettor coma tn and gat the benefit of
Immunity'? at. I told him ho'd batter
toll the truth.
q. Did you tall htm It would be wise
to frame up on Becker? A. I told him
he'd better toll tha truth, that'a all.
q. Did Rooo say to Sullivan ihtt be
was "going to frame up -n lleokar. that
'-ir I reservation waa the flrtt law of
nature?" A. I navar heard auch a re
mark JURY SHOW UNUSUAL INTER
EST IN THE TESTIMONY. .
Tho member of th lury wore leaning
forward tn Jielr tenia watchlnt the wlt
neaa ntentry lirnughout every moment
of thla phase af the teattrnony.
Q. Did you hear Jaok Roae tell Sulli
van, "Tou had belter some up and cor
roborate mo and Webber and mo will
got you out. A. No, tlr.
q. On tho night of hi murder did
you put your arm around Herman dto
Mnthal'a neck ana my to htm. 'Never
mind. Herman. I'm your friend atvd imi
taka oara of you?' Did you My that
there in tho Matropole Hotel? A. I did
Q- Bid yoa greet Btermaa Ro
ar ataal that night? A. Taa.
Q. Toa epoke to him? a. Tas.
Q. la a friendly way? A. Taa.
q. What else? A. That'a all.
Q- Whan job said 'Hello Her
man yoa knew ha waa going to
ba murdered? A. Taa air.
"At that moment did you have a
cnrvaclence?" waa aaked.
Dbjectlona sustained. ,
q. Who else did you see with Ro
tenthal? A. Moe Rrown, Rutch.
Hlcksy and aomo other T did not
"Do you know a man named R"lrk?"
"Don't gnawer." aald Justice Ooff.
q After you saw Rosenthal you went
bock to your poker-room. Deacrlhe
your rooms? A. It Is on big room, one
"Did you order supper for tha gun
men and toll tham thev could have all
thay couid aat and drink?"
OUNMEN RUSjHED AWAY TO DO
Q. what did fob mf whoa fob
returned? A. Only, "Roaenthal la
la tha Matronal e." Than all tha
man roghtd out.
Q. Bid. fob try to restrain tham In
aay way? A. I did not.
0. Did ynu know then that they were
going tn the Metrnpnla hotel to ahoot
him to death? A. Yea.
q. Waa Jack Roae thera? A. Yes.
"q. Waa thera any proteat from
The Court Don't anawar.
Juatlce Ooff apoke to tha wltneaa and
naked him how many men were In hla
"Thirty or forty." said Webber.
0. (By Mclntyre. 1 Wan Kirk Brown
there that nlrht? A. Yea.
Webber aald that Brown was hte
q. Did ha go around with the gunmen?
A. No, air.
q Where- did yon tay when the gun
men went around to get Roaanthal? A.
t stayed In the place.
"Ha Brown a wife named Rtvchelv"
"Excludadl" Intervened the Court.
The croas-examluer went hack to the
tima of tha murdar and got from
Webber that after the gunmen had left
he sat and "waited."
WAS ON HIS WAY TO HEAR THE
"Did you alt t'n re waiting to hear of
q. How did you hear of hla death? A.
Special for Monday, the 14th
MOLAKKKft rREVM I I MI'Si
U3e value eleea iiere.
I.OIT' rtMltl it l linil.
eaeuan rer ati.ruwei wi
rark How and Cartlaadt treat ttoree
All our tierea open Nalutda:
MUk Chocolate Covered
Jul i luscious taatonshu rrulia.
red with a rich lavkot of
I met Jim Smith on Broadway and lie
una ou loillS 1' i-na or.
Rosenthal had been mun1trtd? A
wa on my way to tha Matropole
laarn whether the man had Scan ehoi.
q. Weren't you there when Upeiit!il
waa shirt? A. No, sir Ink not.
q. T'ld you see Kretse (the aal'ar)
lha night o. the murder? A. So, lr.
q lo yon remember that he pointed
you aut In the Coroner' i""ourl a ca
of the actual murderer? A. No, tlr.
Q. DO rou 1eny ou were then w'.rja
Rosenthal wa killed? A. Yea; ! Jenv
q. At th time of tha murder of Ita
enthal were you at or near the f i
ropole? A. No. air. I was In niy polw '
room at tha time.
q. Were you present In th Coroner'j
Court when Krc pointed you out St
on of the men who was present st
ths time of the murier? A No. t r.
q. Did you personally direct anybody
to kill Herman Roaenthal A. No, air.
q Did y ou directly or Indirectly toil
any one to kill llosetnthal? A. No, l-.
Wabber said that some weeka befor I
th murder he had gon to On Hundred
and Twenty-fourth streot and Sovonfi
avenue to meet Roae and Booker. M
waa at tlrla matting Rone alleged So
first plana for tha aasaaalnatlon of Ros
enthal were dlacuaaed. Webber waat
up to this meeting 1n a tatlcab.
q. i. -hepps aakeri you to go up IS
thla meeting? A. Yoa.
q. What did Sobapp aay? A. Ha Mldv
Lieut Reckar want to so you."
s -heap rode uptown with Wabbe
Th wltneaa aald he did not rmnbr;
what he and Schapa talked tbovjt.
Q. la your purpose In not dlecioaln :
(Continue! on Third Past.)
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tlst st iff the; are m ol.
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as tmerlran aa the I nlicd
Brink to tha Amerleaa
I lt-ei (n an American Hev-
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r-'tBl- IOC caOttli
IT'S WORTH A QUARTET;
lot WILL HAY SO YOt RSCLF.
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