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New-York tribune. (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, October 13, 1912, Image 2

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trylng to show that Harry Vallon,
who waa wlth Roso and Sam Schepps
during all thelr movements on tbe
night of July 18. prior to the shooting.
was drunk. Rose admltted that Val?
lon had drunk a good deal, but didnt
Ulnk he was drunk. Tho defence has
lntlmated that it is their plan to try
to put the actual shooting up to Vallon.
Rose conslstently denied that Si-hepps
Waa aware of what was on foot that
nlght. though he bad bein with Rose
and Vallon when they wont uptown to
get the gunmen, and later when the
whole p*rty assembled in "Bridgie"
Wahefa P0k?r room at 484 street and
Sixth avenue, and walted for Weber _
wori that Rosenthal was at the Metro
1 oh , te sfnd UM Kangsters out to shoot
him.
Schepps invlted himself on the auto?
moblle rlde the night we were after
thi* gunmen," said Rose. "lt was
merely u way he had of butting in on
things. Weber and I were very care?
ful not to discuss the plans for the
night before him.''
Had No Twinge of Conscience.
Mr. Mclntyre accused the witness of
trying to construct Schepp's lnnocence
because he knew his (Rose's) testimony
woultl not brlng about a convlction un
less corroborated by some one besiiUs
an accompllce. Rose sald no OM had
told him that. but he hnd read lt ln the
papers. He admltted wlthout a change
of countenance that he had talked 4,\?r
the murder of Rosenthal with the gun
ni'ii ai various times without any real
twinge of conscience.
Rose declared at one tlme that w-h?le
he valued hls own life to a certain ex
tent his object ln turning state evidence
aml testifying against B4*cker was tWO
fold, a* follows:
"Kirsl, I wanted to establlsh the
truth." sald Rose, "and, secondly, I
wanted to get consideration from the
District Attorney for myself."
Ro: e wns on the witness stand from
10 o'clock, when court opened, until 9
0*cl00-* last night, with the exception
of an hcur for the noon recess. Justice
Goff carrled out hls promise that ne
would hold court until both sides had
finished with "Bald Jack." The wit?
ness was flnally dischargi*d from the
witness stand when Mr. McFntyre de
Clartd he was physlcally unable to ask
further questlons. He said. howev-r.
that he had a great many more ques
tions he would lik?* to ask the witness.
Court adjourned until to-morrow at
10:SO a. m.
URGED BECKER NOT TO DEAL
WITH ROSENTHAL, ROSE SAYS
Justice Goff stood firmly agalnst delay
in the Becker trial yesterday when Mr.
Mclntyre. COUntei for the defendant. H
?Bald lack" Rose was called for dlrect
examination. protest-d that the trial
should not proceed because of the legal
hollday. The court ordered the District
Attorney to proceed. and counsel took nn
ex' eption. All day the lawyer was on hls
feet tO object to the line of quoslions or
answers. in the majority of oaaea be'ng
owrruled and noting an cxi-eption.
Rose said he had known Roaenthal for
twt my years tnd bai booa t partner with
him in a gambling house. Bc ker he bad
known since tht Wl ot 1911, he sald, and
bad collectcd money for him. He said be
bad seen Becker and Rosenthal together,
and on one occ-nslon the gambier's wife
was present. At tliat timo ihe lieutenant
told Mrs. Rosenthal not to worry. t? ht
and her husband had a thorough under
standing. Ros. said thereafter h- .-a\v
H. . k. r often. t*M a'i\:.-"d him not tO WA
into partnership witli Rosenthal. the lieu?
tenant. havlng suggested tl at MM * **:i
offer had been made. Kinally, however,
BockOf advanced Jl.'-uO. and Rose. aetlng
as a dummy, btcaitt Rosenthal's pOlt-Mff.
Ti." examination then prootedtd as WA*
lows;
Q IMd vou iiave anv convcrsatlon wltb
Mr Becker regardlng the gambling house
after you opened Iti A.?Tea, sir, altei
th* tirst nlght's bualaeaa Becker caiiu
me up at \n\ hoUM MXt lnerning and
asked me how business was the openlng i
l told hlm that the flrst nlght ?
bUSlntM had been very qulet and the play
had been verj llght; we had not had
manv customers Ol pairons, hut that l
hc.p'd before ths Place had been open a
week that tusinesp would be very good.
4..-Did vou have a converaation witn
Becki-r subsequent to that tlme. wlth
rence to Becker getting a particular
siun of money from Rosenthal out oi that
house, and lf so when was ll and where
was it? L?Ths next oonTtraaUon I bad
?aith Becker was when I reported to him
that that house had had a very good
nlght's buslnesa, and that we had won
ral thousand doilars Bsck-T then
told me, go to Rosenthal and tell him to
give vou *S00 for Becker. That Becker
needed that much,money to pay counsft's
expenses in the csse of TUtt. I told Ro?
senthal Becker wanted WM. Roaenthal
then sald what doea Becker need with
VSA Why, 1 sald, Herman, this i.- part of
the monev you owe him and he wants thls
POB and he is hard pressed for cash just
now Ho is looklng after Tlitt. and fur
nlsblng money for his defence on the
charge of munler and he would like to
havo $500. I think you ought to glve it to
blm. Herman said-Rosenthal sald you
tell Becker 1 won't glve hlm any ?Ml
That note on that mortgage ls not due for
slxty or nim ty day. rel and when It ls
due I will pay )t, and you can also tell
him for mt that the longer I thought oref
the matter the woroe I feel ahout hls
treatment of me. I don't think he 4lid me
any great favor loanlng me $1,300 and tak
Ing my bousehold goods ns eollateral.
Becker Turns on Rosenthal.
Mr. Mclntyre frequently interrupti-d the
forfgoing testimony, and the court grant?
ed his request that It be stricken out In
so far as Rosenthal's statement as to
Becker's treatment was concerned. Rose
was then urged to use as nearly as pos.-l
ble the very language Becker had used
when he reported back, and the examina?
tlon went on:
"N'pw. I will tell you, Jack," Becker
sald. "thls place has gave me a lot ot
worry and trouble. I am being harped
on every dsy at Police Headquarters
about that place Up to to-day 1 have
been able to deny Its exlstence, but the
tlme will come very soon when 1 won't
be able to do that, and whiie I was as
sured I would be dealt falrly wlth by
that fellow I was wllllng to go on and do
everything I could to protect that place,
but thls man's treatment of me now, when
I need money and sent you to get V***,
and his refusal of it. relleves me of that
wnrry about that place. The next tlme
my att-sntlon ltt ca'.led to that place I am
going to raid lt."
Q.?Was there anythlng further sald at
that lntervlew? A.?Tea, slr; I xald tO
Beekar: "Now. do not ect exclted ahout
the* thing, Charlie, and do not Jump at
concluslons. Rosenthal will fix things up
all rlgbt wlth you, because if ever you
start looklng to raid that nlace there ls
golng tO be a lot of trouble." He sald:
rThere will he no trouble once I start. I
wlU go through wlth lt, and the only
trouble there will be will be trouble that
Rosenthal will have."
Suhsequently Rose made many trips
from Becker to Rosenthal and back, the
upshot of whlch was that the latter re?
fused to stand for a frlendly raid after
Becker had sald Waldo had sent for hlm
snd told him to close the gambling place
at No. 104 West 45th street. Becker then
threatened to raid the place.
"What did you say?" wltnegg was asked.
"I will not take that message back to
Rosenthal," I told Becker. "because '.t I
do lt spells trouble," and Becker said to
me, "Now don't you worry, there will be
no trouble, the only trouble in thls case
wlil be for Rosenthal."
Gambler Angtred by Raid.
A few days later the raid was made, and
subsequent developments. according to
Rose, began wlth a conference ber-veen
Be- ker and Rosenthal whlch was later
dltcussed wlth witness, whose examina?
tlon then proceeded as follows:
Q.?You are now repeatlng Becker's
statement to you? A.?To me. Now,
Becker said, Herman sald to hlm: "Well,
1 know, but you might have sent me
some advance Informatlon. and the hard
est blow ot all ls for you taking ln the
raid my wife- nephew." Now, Rosen?
thal sald to Becker: "Now, I won't stand
lor anv such treutm.nt as that. No**"
that case hai ^<>t to he turnc.i pul ngni
0?Bt ln thut polit-.- tourt to-day, and
also theae offlcen hav. ,;..t te?tbe offlcers
btHtioncd in mv place by you, has not to
bc taken out'1 Becker told me that he
Bald to Rosenthal: "Well, let us Ko :>v"r
tn this cafe." pointine; to a nearby piare,
"and we wlll talk it over." They began
talking- it over. nnd Becker snid: NOW,
lltrinan. if you wlll do M 1 tall **OU __
do in this matter, everythlng wlll '"'
all rlght ror all hands concerned. ko
senthal wanted to know from Becker
what he wanted him 10 do. "\ou m
struct your men or thelr attorney orer
ti.it. to walvc examination ln thi
thls morning. When that CaS* comes
downtown 1 win see the teotlmony t.f
Whlte and Steinert _ sucb lhai Moaa.
wlll be no returnlng of ?**_Jctj_e_t_ ">
this case.''
(J.-Jlavo vou linished? A.-'Ami 1 wiil
bave that man. that policeman "tftJonea
ln your house, out in ? couple ol *?*""*?
Now, i instructed my rnen, when tbe**
made that rald. to le very <areful to
Uestroy nothing ln your place other tnan
ishing of the front door, an.l tne
gettlng ln. Row, eYerythlna ls in lust tne
shape that we found lt ln. The only dam?
age wblcb iias been done lo youi place
ls the siiiashing ln of tiie lront door. aiu.
u.r that l am going lo pay you ll.;*"-?? 1
will notifv my attorneys to return to you
the satls-actlon puper on the ch.ittei
mortgage held by Donohue. on the bouse*
holtl goods ln your house." Beckei low
me Rosenthal's reply to that wa-: lt
vou will di) that, II you *rl_ get the man
but of tbal house within two days, lt
vou wlll return no Indlctroents against
my phl ". ani -'ve m* tbe satlsfactlon
papers Ofl that mortgage, why. all well
and good. I wil! waive examination. but,
remember if vou do not play fair wlth me,
and ilve up lo all theae agreemepts that
are belng made between you and i, re**
lo ik out for me. I won't stop until l
break von." Becker sald to me, w hat
_0 vou thlnk of the nerye ol that fellow
talking to me that way?"
Q.?Proceed with the next convet-atlon,
lf any. that you had" A.-Why. the con*
versatlons then between Becker and me
and Roaenthal, were of daily occurrence
asking nie all the tlme lf I had heard
of any new developments In the rn ?
to wliat Roaenthal was saylng or dolng.
I said: "Rosenthal 1* begltimng to talk
about the faet that the pollciiian ll WUll
m hia houae."
r> __? o_? A.-A few days later I
met Becker. and he aaid to me. Indlct
mentS have been returned against the
men arrested In that rald of Rosenthal's
place. I toM Becker: "I am very pan ry
to hear that, Charley." He sald: "Why:""
I said: "There wlll M a lot of trouble."
Rose then took up the rumor* that
Beeker and Rosenthal were In partnership
umI __**? his version of the former's ex?
planation to Commlsslona'r Waldo who,
aitnrss sald Becker told him, dld not be
leve them. He added that Becker told
him he was not afraid of the newspapers,
\* "Jack" Sulllvan was looklng after
ihem. The examination continued:
Newspapers Were "Fixed."
o.-Did Becker speak io yoa aboul any
rniblicatlons? A.?Tes, alr, after tnia
Hecker told me that "Thf Mornlng
World" had received an aftldavlt frotn
Roaenthal, telllng of Becker'a association
wlth Rosenthal In the ?,th street place
iiid that they were about to pnbllsn lt.
It was on a Saturday night, Saturoay
evening w Inn Becker told me this.
(?? State the whole ol that _onverr_
tlon, win you? A. Beckar said "Well,
I guess Rosenthal means to do what lie
_d tc. pojut al and br? ak me. i
aaked Hecker what lt wns, and Why. H?
-ald: "I have just heen infomnd that
in affldavii liad been sworn to by Ros.-n
thal ln and before two repreeentattree or
'The Morning World.' and that they are
going to publlsh It to-morrow mornlng. 1
have heen asked if 1 had any answer to
make to thls amda\ it," be told me, and
1 aaked Hecker what answer he made,
and he aald he would not make any __?
Bwer. that he was actlng on the advlce of
hls attorney. but together they were go?
ing to the World Bulldlng to try and get
the origlnal of that affldavlt, as Deputy
rommlsBioner MrKay had told them that
he had ati action against Rosenthal tor
crlmlnal llbel.
U.?Now, 1 want thoae oonversatlons.
ttarl wlth the flrst of them and locato lt
_*? nearly as you can as to tlme. a. They
I cgan when one day Lieutenant Becker
telepl.oned me to my house to meet hlm
early that mornlng at the Unlon Square
Hotel. ? went apd met hlm there. Lieu?
tenant Becker sald to me: "Well, now.
Ihis fellow Rosenthal mean* to do all he
?ald he would do, all he set out tO do,
about exposing me, and thal I wa* lils
partner and that I am a graft.r, and go
ng to show me up and try and break me."
I asked hlm what he knew about lt.
Hecker sald thut several things had bee*
happenlng now. They all showed what
f{of4f nthal's lntention* were. He sald:
"He hns started hy trylng to aee Com
mlssloner Waldo. He has sent to Polleo
Headquarters. He has bOOH nnnoylng to
:'omm!ssloner Waldo by telephonlng to
lils home. The Commlasioner has refu'etl
to see hlm or talk wlth hlm. He has
tried to give out statements to the press
whlch have be?n refused. He has tried to
>ee Magistrate Corrlgan and he has re?
fused to take any notii-e of lt at all. He
haa tried to see Chief Magistrate Mc
Adoo and tell hlm that the warrant*. ls
>ued against hls place were secured on
-lerjured testlmony. und he has tried to
?er Mayor Gaynor, and Mayor Oaynor
Has *-efused to see hlm.
"He is now dlrectlnc hls efforts to-vnrd
the IHstrlct Attorne.Vs offlce If ever he
?et* there whv lt means great danger "
?Wel!." I snld to Becker. "I don't thlnk
be can get there. Besldes," I sald. "lt ls
the Forenesa of a man whose place has
been ralded." "But." aald Becker, "he
means to do me If he can. nnd I BBU-I
?top hlm " "? >11," I sald. "lt Is easy
enough to ato|> hlm We wlll get people
to see him and talk wlth hlm " He sald:
'Now. 'Jack,' I wnnt to have a frank
ralk wlth you. and something I want you
to do. Vou have just done a favor for
Eellg." I sald: "I am trvlng to. but I
bave not succeeded as vet." "Well. vou
have got hlm out on ball." I sald: "Yes.
'mt there Is stlll that charge hanglng over
ihr. a frame-up charge and he Is blamlng
ne for lt." Xo, pardon me, Eellg was not
Mlt on ball. he had be*n out on the $4,000
ball. and then had heen rearrested nnd
held ln $10,000 bail and he was conflned ln
the Tomhs
TESTIF1ES BECKER WANTED
ROSENTHAL "CROAKED"
"Becker sald to me," Rose then de?
clared, 'There is only one thing to do
wlth a fellow llke Rosenthal, and just
stop hlm so that he will not bother any
body any more for all tlme.' I sald, What
do you mean?' He said, 'Well, there Is a
fellow that ought to b* put off the earth.'
Wby,' I says, i agree wlth you.*"
tt'hat did you say?" asked Mr. Mcln?
tyre.
"I mMree wlth you, he ls no account,"
the witness replled. "He sald, 'Well. no
use sayl/ig he ls no account and all of
that. but the Idea ls now to do some
thirig to hlm.' I says. "What do you
mean"-' and he sald. There Is a fellow I
would llke to have croaked.' "
Rose then sald, contlnuing the examina?
tlon:
Why r -says: "Charlie, there ifs other
ways of handllng Rosenthal," .and he
aald: "Now, llsten, Jack," BecKcr sald,
"I am as much opposed to those lh1*1'"-?
as vou are, but there is I man where i
have absolutely no scruples in dolng any?
thlng to. aml what is more, I want V
tell you somethlng eise. I met KO*"1"
thal last nlght and rode In a taxlcab w.th
him downtown. a meeting thut 1 could t."
II1 111 Unnilll-nil, <1 llirrucco ...-* - ? I , ..1
h.lp havlng come up, a tn?*k wee I111*"1
on me hy Rosenthal getting into that
taxlcab, and among other things Ja'.K.
that dog went on slanderlng members oi
vour famlly" I sald to him: What 0 d
b? say'."' "Well." he says. "I WOUld no
tell vou what he sald. lt ls not WMI
Rosenthal says. I Just told you that '?*
Show you the nerve of the man. and al
th- nice things you did fOT Rosenthal
all wlnter, aml the mom-y that you gavt
hlm to pay his rent, and thfl money that
*,..?? gave hlm to llve, and that ls UM
gratitude, to go around slanderlng mem?
bers of your famlly." , .
1 says: "Well, lt don't make much
dUTerence, Charlie, what Rosentiial says
eith.r ahout vou or me." He says: * I
know, that's all rlght. I Just point that
out to you to show you whut ha d?*>
to me, too. Here I am In charge M UM
strong arm squad,' and Instead of get?
ting money from that fellow, 1 gave nim
money, gave hlm $1,&"0 to start hls PjaM
with, put hlm ln the way of ?a ?*?*?'"l'i
money, protected the place, and lt
aft-r him, and* there Is the gratitude, anu
that is how he returns lt-when 1 was
loinp- lled to save myself and my position
to make a raid, a raid for which I P"'o
%\,;&) to make, why he la now looklng
to get my scalp."
Suggested Warnmg Rosenthal.
I sald. 'You are right, 4'harlle, the nmn
is all you say he is and 1 agree wlth you
and everything, but there ate other wayi
ot haiulllng RosenthaJ." He sald. "What
an- th-y? "Why," 1 sald, "ln thfl flrat
place, there ure some people uptown
whom 1 can go to who wtll send to Ro?
senthal and Juat lay the law down to
him. Thes? men-Rosenthal will pr-tty
near have to do whatever they ask 01
hlm. Th-y will wain iilm that for the
best intensts of all concerned that b?
tomi'leted hls plans of expoetng JfOU OT,
as he thlnks, break you" "Why, In*
i-ald. "do vou thlnk that I would ask any
hodv or let you ask anybody to go to
anvbodv and usk Rosentnal to let up on
me'.' You don't know BM "? w.ll U
thought vou ilid." "Wsll," I sald,
have another plan. Charll?. I wlil get a
couple of gangsters to go and sei* Rosen
tfiaf ar.d warn hlm that if he .ion t stop
in hls attaiks on you and abaudon all
tbest Plans anu ldeus of his of expoe-ng
you tliat somethlng will happ.n to him.
"Why, 1 don't want any threats.
Becker sald, "you know, wlth a fellow
Uke Rosenthal " 1 said. "All rlght. l whl
send a couple of fellows up th-re tliat
will give Rosentiial a beattng and warn
hlm and tell him thfl reason of that DOtt
Ing, and If he don't stop tbSTfl is some
thing worse than a beatlng ln BtOTfl Wl
hlm. And Becker sald, "I don't want
hlm b. at ap. 1 COUW do that myself 1
could have a warrant (or anv gKini* Ing
hOUSt thal he frequ-nts aml mak- _ raid
cn that I'lace and heat hlm U|- for resist
Ing arfeet or anythlng else. No beatlng
up will lix that f-llow-a dog tn the eyes
nt myself, vou and -sverybody tite. Notn
Ing foi thal man bul taken off th's earth
hart him murderod, cut his throat,
d\ namlted or anythlng. '
l sald. "Charlie. don't exdtt yonrself.
Thls ni.m Rosenthal Isn't worth taklni
anv such chances arlth." "Cbancea, be
?ayi -lack vou knou whal i thlnk ol
you,'whal i thlnh of youi famlly snd
wiiat ray famlly thlnks of Jfou. You don I
suppose for a minute 1 would ask you lo
go lnto anythlng that meant laklng ?
chance or meant dang-r to you or gourfl
no more tiian l would take myself
ln no ilanger to anybody lhat '?
bwni in th? murdei of Roaenthal. You
ian assure Zelig and all his crowd that
there is aboolutely no danger Vou fcnow
m< Jack; i havt made good," sald Beck?
er "an\ thing 1 ev-r told >"U ' would,
and 1 will tnak- good on thls '1 I ?'
can'l anythlng happen tu anj om. snd
you know tha sentiment over al PoHe*
Meaihiuarters Ifl M Strong thal ?
oi men thut eroah bist would ha?? t
medal pinned on them
I eald, Aii right Charlie I wlil hflJp
vou" I sald. "What ls lt you want
ile sald, "I \Mirit \*>u to go ic th- Tombs,
se-s ZelLg, IsM idm thnt I will take . are
of that case, the earrylng ol concealed
weapons. Explaln to hlm ahout
thal und tell hlm whal Rottnthal hat
done tO nie and tO ev. ry OM thrt tl I
also show him tlu* danger that thfl iva"-'
ls ln as th-* resull of Roaenthal
ing. Tell hlm anythlng >ou llke Jack.
lt don't mak- any difftreace. I w*tn stand
by anythlng von tell hlm A*k hlm to
Issn- an order frcin Ilie Tombs to come
wlth, his gang to cn.ak Rosenthal to
nlght, and to-morrow /.-l!g wll! be OUI on
the street and relleved of any further
WOiry about th- charge agiiinst luin "
He sald, "Will you do that"' I tai4
"Yes."
"All Over in Twenty-four Hours."
"W?*ll." bt tt '1. "1-re, tak. thls to
Zeiig with my sompilirents." i
gavi- ui. UOO t*> take to /.ellg I Mld tO
Heck. r. "I'harll-. do vou mind lf I have
Vallon oloni -*-.:th ntef" an.i h- sakL
"Not al all Y"i can tak<* Vallon " And
Ptoktir sald, "Now, l will tee > < ?ij to
morron morning, and you i> t me know
nist what /.ellg says; hut. 0f posslble*.
'..a\e ii dont to-night it will oll I
ln twenty-four hours."
Rose then des. rlbid the vlslt bt BBi
Vnll.fl-c.had wlth Zelig la the Tombs "14|g
.la'-k" said hfl dldn't want tht !'"'. tsd
tlamed Becker and Rose fc.r hl.s b-lng
ln tht Tombs on thal framort np charge.
When he reported to Btcktc that /.. Ilg
had saiil that h- WOUld do no favor for
him 'intii treei tht Iteuteaanl declars- ht
might rot iii tht Tombs, wltnsss sald.
"Bald .la-k" then suggest.e*! that bt kmIW
some frleadfl ot Zelig'.s who might ,i< t Ifl
the matter wlthout M-dtn trom th- gang
leailer.
Contlnulng. Rose quoted Recker as say?
lng: "84*- thosi- fellows; have a talk wlth
them. and t?*11 them Just what I have
told you?nothlng can happen to anybody
that i-roaks Rosenthal."
Witness then descrlbed hls vlslt to
??l_efty" Bouis an.l "Whltey" btwlt as
follows:
I told them 1 came there to warn them
of the danger they w.re ln, of tlie fate
slmllar tO Whal Zelig had niet hy belng
arrested on a chaiKe of earrylng oon
cealed weapons, and they ;uld' "W. II,
we don't cairy ih-*m anv more Mnce un**
trouble of Zellg'a" "Well," I sald, ' lt
don't make uny dlfferenci*. '/a-Ui; tlltln l
have one. elthir. Now, lf you go down?
town at all, you are gone." "Well, wl.o
is dolng th!n"-" thty sald. "Why, U-SU-*
tenant Becker and a strong arm squad,"
I told them, "has threat-nt-d to do || "
"What Is tlie cause of that*.'" they
OSked me, aml "Why Hi-iinun Rosen?
thal."! said. "who ls nerman Rosentnal
and what had bt to do wlth lt"" th-y
usked. and I sald: "Well, bfl has heen
siiueallng agalnst l.leiit-iiaiit Becker, a'.d
be ls trylng to get to th- Dtstrlcl Attor
ney'H oAcfl and see Iilstri-i Attorney
Whitman to esposfl Becker and th. -AorK
inKs of the strong arm tousd." "Now,"
I sahl, "Becker 1 *?-1 ?s. an.l has told m- go,
that all you fellows whom, on mv occount, i
hn has been taklnn ran* of OWfl It to hlm
and to rourselves to see that Rosentnal
<loes not aj i"*nr nnil make that SQUeal. '
They said, "You mean hy croaklng hlm."
I sald, "Yes." "Have you seen Zi-llg?"
they asked me. I gaJB "Yes."
Zfllig's Men Willing.
Q.?What did he nay about It? A ?
"Whv, I dldn't talk dlrect to Zellg ahout
it." I told them. "but I know thnt Z.-Hk
wlll agree to lt." Well,'* thev said, "all
rlght. W? are wllllng. We will go to
night." I sald, "Well, now, lit nt tr
range it tlils way: You stay h.rr, I will
go to 42d street. hut Just Wall Bf ar?
rival and he rendy at any tlme tha,t I
come for you to take you where Rosen?
thal is, and then you can do the Job."
Thev sald "We will walt "
I saw Bocksr that night and told him
that everything wns nll rlght and that
Z-llg's friends were on the job. and that i
he could SXpeCt any day now, or any i
nioriilniiT snd wnse and read the papers
and flnd that Rosenthal had been found I
murdered, and Becker sald to me, "I I
hope that Is so Xow, tell those fellows I
to drop everything else. There la noth- ,
ing to worry about aml notblns to fear,;
aml I w-tll take i-are of Htiybody and
evervbodv that has a hand in the thing "
I sald, "I have nsnured them on that
and they are on tbe Job now."
Several days i tstsd aml H?*cker began
t> get impatlent, ItOSfl testlfled, aml sald: j
"It ls begtnnlng to look llke I will have
to do that Job myself."
"Brldgle" Weber was then hrought Into
tht testimony and Rose told of a confer- |
ence at 121th street aml Heventh avenue)
in whlch Boektr, Weber, Vallon and he
took part. Schepps had gone to Harlem .
wlth hlm, but was not present. Recker |
salil Rosenthsl was trylng to arrange tu |
see Dlstrtet Attorney. Thls meeting was *
ln fhe latter part of June. said Rose, |
whose examinatlon then went on:
C. ls that ut near aa you can state? *
A.?Yes. sir: that ls as hear as 1 can
state. Becker said to Weber. "Brldgie,
whv don't vou help Jack ln that thing
and have _iat fellow croaked?" And
Weber sald he didn't want to lay himseir
llahle to those fellows. "There ls no
la-rtng llahle to anybody or anything.'
Q-ls that Becker's reply? A.-That 1*
Becker's reply to Weber. "There is noth
inir to happen to anybody that has any
hand In the croaking of Rosenthal," he
sald. "I don't know whether Jack ls
stalling or weakenlng. or what It Is, or
whether these fellows won't take Jack s
word for lt. Now. \ou step into the thlng.
Brldgie; take charge of things and see
that this thlng is done for me. will you.
Uridgie sald he would. and Brldgie sald,
"Leare it to me noW. The Job wlll be
done, and done qulck.H Then he and
Becker stepped aside and held a whls
pered conversation, and on their return
Hecker called me aside, and I had some
monev for hlm that nlght. whlch I gave
to hlm. He told me. Now, Brldgie w'ill
he on the job to help you. Now, thls
thlng ought to be done wlthln a day or
two." I sald. "Well, wlth Brldgie on the
iob. Charlie. I thlnk we wlll get BOHM f
siilts quiekly." and we left.
Rose told of going to the Lafayette
Baths wlth Vallon and Weber, and lind
lng "Lefty" Louie, "Gyp" the Blood, and
"Dago" Frank. Weber went up to hls
poker room ln 42d street and the others
followed. They learned that Rosenthal,
hls wlfe and "Jack" Sulllvan were at the
(Jarder, Beataurant, 50th street and Sev?
enth avenue. and went up there wlth the
int-ntlon of kllllng him. Roaenthal a_
i.iped that nlght. Rose sald he explained
10 Hecker. because a detective appeared
and they were filghtened off.
Repests "Nothing to Fear."
"I told you there ls nothing to fear
here." Bose then declared Becker ?__.
"Walk up and shoot hlm ln front of a
policeman lf you want to. There aln t
nothing to fear, but don't let that happen
again. When you get hlm, get through
with lt, and get over wlth lt."
Ro-e said he talked with Becker every
day, and on July 14. hc thought. he IW
eelved a telephone message from him tell
iii. that Rosenthal had mada an afttdavit
to "The Mornlng World" expoaing the
work ing*.
Bose then told of hla efforts to get an
affldavit from Dora Gilbert, Rosenthal'?
Mrst wlfe. Jack" Sulllvan had told hlm
suhptrnas hnd heen issued by D.strlcl
Attorney Whltman for Rose. "Dol
l.ur John. ' Ahe Hahlo and Ahe I'-rebla
to appear before the grand Jury to-mor?
row. Rose sald he did. Tlon he Af
?crlbod a telephone _o_**_r___0_ wlth
BOCker, who a*ked: "Have yOU art nng. <l
for to st- ihe?e people and get an assur
nnte from them that they wlll not cor
roborate any statement that Ro_M_t**-l
muk-s l.efore the grand jury?" The ex*
amtnatlon went on:
i (ald Paofcer tbal be knew i was not
frlendly wlth "Dollar John," but l turoed
the mattei ox ei to "Brldgie' We** r, and
??Brldgie" Weber ira. now down there to
-.??? theae people, and would soon report
to me ?t the bath the result of bla talK
with tbem He Mid: Now, hav ran.
.. n Dora Ollberl lUaln"" I sald: "No;
I ti,. ve an appolntment with her al I o clocic
to-nlght at her home ' He sald: "I am
tendlng nut and another mnn up to the
bath this evening nt t; o'? lock I wanl
you to take these two men to the home
i.f Iiora Ollberl and prevall upon
Ave you an aSdavil aboul lo-r Ilfe with
ll. rman Roaenthal. l want lo um lt ln
? ipaperi for to-moriuw I UM,
II ,!" M ... i
ii Where dld vou _o? A. ?I ut' j* I
Bulilvan oul at th- Madlaon Bquare Oar*
r|.-n From there I went to the botnt ol
l).,ra Ollberl I found tbem all at work
on the aflldavlt
ii Wlll you deacrlbe thnt maeiiine. the
machlne nowT A The <>nly thlng
mber of lt 1? th- fa-t lt was a
ci a ? oar .,,
t? Wlll von descrlhe Ihe automoblle
whlch ShaplrO was driving Wlll vou
?. ll arho went ln that automoblle
when it started away from Mth street?
\ Harry Valloa, "8am" Bcheppe, m>
eelw snd tbe dri oi
tj Wbere dld you goT a l p to sev?
enth nvenu"
g Wbo dld you see there? A.?"I'ago
1'rn.nk
g Wbereabouta on Seventh avenue dld
you go? A. I thlnk Ihe number ls 25
or i:
i} Who lives there. If you know. or
->,,, dld il thal tlme? A I don't know
who lives there, bttl the name on the
dool OM I Haker A Harrl.-.
Meet at Webber's.
Bose said he asked "Ii.igo" I'rnrik
trhere the reol ol Ihe ottywi were, and
found thal tboy hnd reoetved ? n
tn come downtown The automohlle
tl.i n WOllI to VTOber'l and th.-y had r
fi*eehme_t_ "B_M J___" __MI **__?-"
frank. "Cvp lh- HOfMa, MI_-f_JT*" -OVtO,
"Whlte*. " l.ewla, "Sam" Schepps. Vallon
and WOber w.re In Ihe partv. Weh-r
arenl OUt< and then ram- bacb and sald
Roaenthal was al tbe Metropole The
? | iinmalion then prOCOOd-d.
({ What dld he say dl.l he say an:,
tl li , when he returned. and If so arha]
trai U* a lie sald Rooentbal is around
Bl the Metropole
<..'. When weber sald that, what hap
pened? A.?Everybody aroas irom the
taMe nnd started fur the door.
Q ?Did they go out of the door? A.?
Q.'_\Vno went out? Name the P"ton*
whose nameB you can state that you know
went out of the door-the persons jnom
you can state flrBt by name. A.? inere
was "Louie," "Gyp"- .
Q. Ixnider. Which "Louie . __*_"
"Leftjr" I?ule. "Gyp" the Bk*?<*'
"Whlte***' Lewls, "Dago"' fr*n*;
"Brldgie" Weber and others whom I don l
know.
Q.-Did you go out? A.-No.
Q. -What was the. next thlng that oc?
curred of whlch you were a wltness or a
hearer after they had left the_ poker
room, aa you have just told us? ___*
was standing at the couch in the place,
and the word came ln that Herman Ko
senthal had Just been shot around to tne
Metropole?
Mr. Mclntyre-I object to that as in
competent.
Mr. Moss Hefore that ls passed upon,
may r ask lf he can state who lt was
brought in that message?
Mr. Mclntyre-I ask that lt be strlcken
out.
The" Court -Strike lt out
Mr. Hart-Wlll your honor direct the
jury to dlsregard <t?
The Court- Yes.
Hv Mr Moss:
Q_?Did you leave the poker room?
A.?At BO tlme. ,
g.- Didn't you leave it at some tlme
A.- The followlng morning.
Witness sald he went over to the
Tlmes Hulldlng about 3 o'clock and tele?
phone.! to Becker. Mr. Moss then took
up the direct examination.
Q.-State any conversatlon you had
wlth Lieutenant Becker at that time over
the telephone? A -After I got Lieuten?
ant Becker on the telephone I aald:
"Hello. there." lie said: "Hello, there.
"Dld vou hear the news?" I asked.
' Ves," he replied. "and I congratulate
you."
(j.-ls that what Becker sald? A.?
Becker said tfl BM I said: "How did
you get it no soon?" He said: "1 hnd a
previous messag- from a newspaper
man." He said: "Where are you?" I
said: "Down at Hridgle' Weber's place.'
i aald: "Are you comlng downtownT
Ii. ckei sald: "I am all dressed and
ready to go out now. Wlll you come
and meet me there? I wlll be there Just
as soon as 1 get downtown."
Q.?After you had hnd that telephone
meaaage or communicatlon with Beeker,
what dld you do? A.?I went back to
li.1 street and Sixth avenue.
\' Whom did you see there? A.?
"Brldgie" Weher and "Jack" Sulllvan.
ij Dld any one come along that you
knew? A. - Lieutenant Becker.
In Pollok'a Houae.
The wltness then told of a conversatlon
over the telephone wlth Becker, whlle
bt W_g at Harry Pollok's house. He
teatifled:
I Bgld to Becker: "I want to see vou."
He sald: "I am busy looklng after things
ii.m, hut I wlll try and get a chance to
run up to-day," but he sald: 'I told
Potlok to tell you?did you get a telephone
meeaace from PollokT*' l said I did.
"Dld Potlok tell you everythlng Was all
right and not to worry?" I sald he dld.
II. aald: "That ls just the way matters
stand. Now. don't worry and get ner
v.ius." I sald: "What about this fellow
Sl splro, and Libby? I hear they have
been arrested." He sald: "Well, now,
th.r- is nothing to worry about them;
can you locate Aaron I.evy?" I aald: I
thlnk I can." He said: "Vou try, and
I wlll see if I can locate hlm, and tell
hlm to appear for thls chauffeur for me."
I aald "AU right, I wlll do that." He
sald: "There ls nothing for you to worry
gboul and I know where you are, and
that ls a good place for you to rest up.
Now, Just stay rlght there."
He had another conversatlon wlth
Becker. he sald, Becker telllng hlm to
stay where he was, and not to go to
I'ollce Headquarters. Becker told hlm to
s.e Mr. Mart, Rose testlfled, so that the
lawyer could get an affldavit about the
loan to Kosenthal. He saw Mr. Hart, he
t-stlfled, but dld not make the affldavit.
Adjournment was then taken until 2
o.iock. d-splte Mr Mclntyrea objec
tlon to the (ontlnuatlun of the s.^eion
beyond 1- o'clock.
At the afternoon sesslon the dlrect ex?
amination continued aa followa:
y ? You atated that you stopped at 60th
?treet ami Llght? nv.-nue. in giving an
aecount of your inovements after the
shooting; dld you do anything at frmh
?treet ?nd Lighth avenue.' A.-l dld.
Q What dld you do there? A.?I haa
?ent Sch-pps to bring "Lefty" Loul* to
me tt) give him
Q Who tlld you meet there? A - I met
""Lefty*1 Louls and one other man.
<; WhO was the other man? A.?I am i
In dt ubt as to whether It was "Gyp" or I
Krank. *
V When you say you're in doubt ,
wh-ther lt was one of them or whlch one
lt was, was It one of Ihem? A ?It was !
one of them.
tin ohjectlon hy Mr Hart Justice Qflff
ruled out that portlon of the answer aa to ,
what Be-ker said. The testimony bfld
beea read by the stenographer. and there
.v. ? bo ii ieb commotfon thal the court dl* \
r<*cted thal It be read again. after arhlcb 1
th- ?triklng ""t wns reconsldered and the
teetlmon) glven lo the Jury. Justice Ooff
ruled out, however, the testlmony ln the
early part of the examination of Rose
tii.it h- had collected money for Becker.
he" A. Schepps was slttlng on a dlvan
ouMldc ln the hallway readlng a book.
ROSE'S VOICE DISTINCTLY
HEARD AT ALL TIMES
The atmosphere ln the eourtroom had
ier,une almost lnauffei-Ably warm when
.Ir. Moss flnlshed wlth Rose and turnM
ilm over to Mr. Mclntyre for cros-J-ex
imlnnflon. The wlndows were kept closed
.. .11 M of tlM street nolscs. 1'ersplra
lon stooil In beads on the face of Rose,
inil he held his handkerchlef In lils hand
ind i ontlnually wiped hls forehead. Tiie
lervous tenslon under whl-Ii th- WttatM
vas laboring, though be did not show It
.utwaruly. rvld-ntly add-i lo hls illmom
ort. All thi- Jurymen were fanning them
elves wlth newspap- rs R-c-e cleareil hls
oh .*, whlch was dtstlnctly heard at all
mme, aml settled back In Ml chair to
lualt the attack of Hrrkcr's counsel.
Mr Mclntyre started hy dlrectlng some
N iict-d and ptTSOnal (juestlons at the wlt
leKa, some of which Justice (JofT ruled
iut en tlie objectlon of the Distrlct Attor
u*y. Tiie early examinatlon was as fol
ciw- :
g?Rose, do you now admlt that you
ommanded, OOUBSSllsd and advlsed tlie
nurder 'if Herman Rosenthal?
Mr Whitman. I objei-t to the form of
he question.
Bustatned. Fxeeptlon.
<^ Were you an accompllre ln the mur
ler of Rosenthal?
Mr Whitman. I object.
Sustalned. Kxcentlon.
Q -Do you believe that you are a mur
erer?
Objected to. Sustalned. Kxception.
g Hnve you ever been engaged in the
lurder of other human belngs than Ko
enthar.'
Objected to. Objectlon overrulied.
A 1 have not.
g w?re you a party to the murder of
Hpanlsh Ixiule"?
Objected to. objection overruled.
A. I was not.
g You knew about that murder?
Objected to. Objectlon overruled.
A?I h-srd and read of it
g Did you procure people to commit
hat murdert
Objected to. Objectlon overruled.
A -I did not.
g Did you know a man hy the name
f "Kid" Twlst? A. Ry readlng of hlm.
O.? Did you procure the murder of
Kid" Twlst'.' A.--I illd not.
g IMd you talk wlth tho people who
rought about hls murder? A.?I did not.
g. -Did you know "Kid" Twlst? A.?
Iy rendlng of him.
g. - Did you ever see "Kid" Twlst? A.?
never saw hlm
g. ?In respect to the testimony that you
ave to-day concerning the presence of
Ir. Hart ln Mr. I'ollak's house ut tlie
me that Mr Hart was there, was
ehepps sometlmes known as "Sam"
Vanklln thsre? A?He came ln after
Ir Hart'l arrival.
g W'as he In the same room? A.?No,
ir.
g.-Wlth Mr Hart? A.-No. slr.
O ?In whal nurl nf the aimrlnii.nl wus
L. P. Hollander __ Co.
have never shown such a splendid Une of
Women's Evening Coats
both with and without fur trimming
Prices from $65.00
FIFTH AVE. at 46th St.
Q.?You stated this mornlng that you
reclted some facts to Mr. Hart; these
facts as reclted by you were lncorporated
ln an affldavit?
Objected to. Obiection sustalned.
q.?Waa that whlch you said to Mr.
Hart written down by hlm? A.?I P"o
sume it waa.
(j.?Didn't you see lt done? A.?No. slr.
Q.~Dld you sign and swear to a paper?
A.?To the paper that Mr. Hart gave mo
to sign and swear to.
Q?Was there a notary public present?
A?Mr. Hart sald the man was a notary.
Q.?Dld you swear the contents of that
paper were true? A ?I did.
Q.?L'pon that occaslon dld you commit
perjury?
Objected to. Objection overruled.
A.-If I dld. Mr. Hart and Lieutenant
Becker knew I was committtng perjury.
Q?I ask you did you commit perjury?
A.-Whv, I would have done anything
Ueutenant Becker asked me to that
nlgnt. _,
Q.? So that you would have committed
perjurv at iinv tlme? A.?That nlght.
Q.?Dltl you ever see Mr. Hart before
that occaslon? A.?Not to my recollcc
ti0*>. . ._
Q.?After you signed and swore to the
affldavit, dld- you ever have any commu
nlcatlon wlth Mr. Hart? A.-Not dlrectly.
Q.?Dld you ever .ee Mr Hart person
ally after the execution of the affldavt**
A.?Not to my recollectlon. *1*T
Rose sald that he had been known n
Jack Rose for twenty years. Ht ajg.
mltted that "hls folks' name" wu Hp,
senswelg. Hls rlght name waa Jacob
and he was thlrty-seven years old. Ht
had never been addressed as "Blllitm
Ball Jack," or "Baldy Jack." he stio.
Mr. Mclntyre took up Rose.'s friendshlp
and relatlons wlth hls counsel, James Jt
Sulllvan, in the following questtons toA
answers:
Q.?When you were In Connectlcut some
years ago did you know James M 8uln
van, a lawyer? A?Very well.
Q.-That Sulllvan whom you knew thes
is your lawyer ln thls matter? A.-Hs ls.
Q.?And was yeur lawyer when y0q
were apprehended for the commlssion ot
murder? A.?I wau not apprehended
Q.?Were you not held for murder? A.?
I surrendered.
g? I n*ke_ you were you held for mark
der? A?I'pon later developments I was
h-ld.
g.-Jack Rose, or rather Sulllvan, then
became vour lawyer? A?He did.
Q.?Sulllvan and you were engaged ttt
&ttw $t Cftk
OUTER APPAREL, MILLINERY *-^^"**> FURS
FOR WOMEN. MISSES ar.d JUNIORS
No business street in the world com
pares with Fifth Avenue, New York
?and no stores in the world compare
with the wonderfully artistic and beautiful shops
of upper Fifth Avenue?yet, the location often
misleads one into thinking that because of this
prices are necessarily higher?
Notwithstanding the exclusiveness and tlegance of its mei
chandise, the rare good taste displayed in selection of styles,
materials, and shades, the Personal Store Service given and
the wonderfully large assortments of finer things shown*?
the .act remains that intrinsic values are really better here
than at any other store in the city.
TO-MORROW-WE BEGIN
SPECIAL DISPLAYS OF FURS
FUR COATS FUR SETS
FUR AND FUR-TRIMMED MILLINERY
FUR-TRIMMED SUITS AND COATS
FUR AND FUR-TRIMMED WRAPS
These Fur and Fur-trimmed Garments are the lart word
(rom Paris, and, as you know, are quite tht vogue this season.
We invite you to see them whether at this
moment interested or not?for we believe it will
at least acquaint you with the prevailing modes.
Tfft. flvtitiR?46th and 47tb Street
A
?"The Big Store"^^,
"A CITY IN ITSELF"
GR__NliUT-SI_lfeEL COOPER 0.
BOTHSioEsore^AVE. ij.BGRoali-!.??-* *" -^ ,Q,H STSk*
Read This Announcement for lnformation of
Important Sales
For Monday
ln New York*s Biggest and Brightest
Shopping Emporium
Amazing stocks of Fall and Winter goods, displayed for qtitek
and easy selection. A limited number of the speciafs that will greet
you here, tomorrow, are printed in this hrief announcement.
MAIN BUILDING:
WOMEN'S OUTER APPAREL
Ontinuance of our astonishing distrihution of Fall and Winter
suits. coats and dresses. The sale began as a sensation, and it
being continued as a public service. More than $20,000 ?orth
of fresh, new and beautiful garments are added to the displayt
for tomorrow's selling.
WOMEN'S TAILORED DRESSES?values to $20, at $13.75;
values to $25, at $19.50.
WOMEN'S FALL AND WINTER COATS?values to $14.75,
at $9.50; values to $21.75, at $12.75.
WOMEN'S WHITE LINGERIE ANI) TAILORED WAISTS:
Values Values Values
to $1.50. at 69c. to $1.98, at 89c. to $2.98, at $1.29
NEW ARRIVALS IX OUR MILLINERY SALON?Trimmed
Hats?"last-minute" hints: specialiy priced for today, at $5,
$7.50 ami $12.50.
$3 READY-TO WEAR PI.USH HATS, at.$195
$4 MESSALINE SILK PETTICOATS?for Misies and SmtU
. Women. at.$2.89
NEWEST MODEL CORSETS? the finest and largeat assortment
of stvles we have ever presented; sale prices.$1 to $5
SALE OE WOMEN'S GLOVES?four suitable winter styles; cor?
rect colors; specialiy priced at.85c
MANUFACTURERS' SURPLUS STOCK OE RELIABLE
TRUNKS?at astonishingly low prices; also $6.75 Travchn*
Bai-s. at .$4.-5
$1.75 ALL-WOOL SUITINGS?a yard.98c
$1.10 ALL SILK SATIN MESSALINE?a yard.?0c
$1.25 DRESS VELVETEENS?a yard.85c
$20 TO $22 REED FTLLMAN BABY CARRIAGES?at... $14.75
MEN'S AND WOMEN'S $3.50 and $4 FOOT-MOULD? SHOES
__2 9#
GREENHUT BUILDING:
SALE OF BEDSTEADS AND BEDDING:
$20 BRASS BEDSTEADS?at.$JJ
$50 BRASS BEDSTEAD OUTEIT?at.$3$
$18 OSTERMOOR FELT MATTRESS?at.$?_
$21 SOUTH AMERICAN HAIR MATTRESS?at.*]}
$10 WIRE SI'RINGS?at.$?.
$35 BEDDING OUTEIT?comprising box spring, South American
hair mattress and two feather pillow. covcred with A. C. A or
fancy ticking, at. . $25
$6.50 MERCERIZED ARMURE PORTIERES-pair.$450
$3.50 E1GURED SILK ARMURES-a yard.UM
$27.50 (100-piece) AUSTRIAN CHINA SETS?at.$*2-501
100-Piece CARLSBAD CHINA SETS?coin-gold band and inttial
to order; at.P*
$75 KERMANSHAH RUGS?choice. at.___|
$44.50 WILTON RUGS?size 9x12; at.$-?50
BOHEMIAN GLASSWARE?sherbet and hock glasses, at.. 39c
ALUMINUM TEA KETTLES?6-pint size; at.$lM
? _UN OAK" PARLOR HEATING STOVES?various sizes; at_;.?.
$4.40, $5.75 and $7.65
CURTAIN STRETCHERS-sizc 5x10 ft, at.*?
Doublea$+%f Green Trading Stamps Be?
fore 12 o'Clock?Single Stampt Thereafter
. -.

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