THE SUN, SATURDAY, OCTOBER B,
to My that In mr Judgment not only should
such contributions not be solicited lint If
tendered they should 1)9 refined, nnd If they
have been accepted they should Imme
dtatelj' bo returned. I nm not the candidate
but 1 am the hend of the Hcpubllcan Ad
ministration, which Is nn Issue In this aim
palnn. nnd I protest most earnestly against
men rrhotn we are prosecuting belnir nuked
to contribute to elect A President who will
tippotnt nn Mtonioy-Geneml to contlntio
Tour years no Mr.. Cortelyou returned, as
1 am Informed, nny money forwarded by
any one who wna belnir prosecuted or pro
ceeded arcalnst br the natlonnl Oovern
went or who hnd any personal Interest
whatever In any matter landing before the
Administration, At thnt time 1 was In
formed that money had been contrlbutod
to the national campaign by representatives
of the Standard Oil Company, and I wrote
the following letter'
Here Mr, Unoserelt quoted the lette.ro
that ho has already made public in part
Instructing Mr. Cortolyou to return tho
Standard Oil lOO.(no contribution If any
had been made. Those aro tho letters
that Mr. IVnroho and Mr. Archlxild charge
trore written for tho "record" after tho
Natlonnl Commlttoo liod spent tho $100,000
and had been turned down on tho second
request for UMi.ooo.
Ono of these letters shows that Mr,
Roosevelt did not intend to discourage
Mr. Cortolyou from obtaining contribu
tions from corporations. That portion
of the Cortolyou letter was omitted in
the recent statement sent by Col. lloose
velt to the Clapp commlttoo.
Warns Atralnst Harriman Monar.
After quoting that and other com
munications to Cortelyou Mr. ltooso
volt's letter to Mr. Sheldon In tho Toft
campaign ends with n warning against
. bis accepting any Uarriman or Standard
Col. lloosevelt also had discovered
In his records another telegram in ad-
ditton to tho two letters and one tole
graphlo despatch that ho had already
disclosed as having been sent by him
to Cortolyou In October, 1004. This
message was dated October 37, tho samo
day on which ho wrote his second letter
ordering Cortelyou to return tho Standard
i Oil money. This message reads:
Oreatly deslro that before leaving for
Washington request contained In my letter
of yesterday be compiled with.
Mr. Loeb, Col. Koosovolt's former sec
retary, had accompanied him into tho
room and had taken a seat immediately
behind tho witness chair. A secretary
struggled in with n big portmanteau
containing the Colonel's original letter
Dies. Jt was apparent from tho beginning
that tho Colonol meant bsiness and that ho
was prepared to back up his statements
Trith original documents if necessary.
Senator Clapp got the words "Now in
regard to tho Harriman fund," out of his
mouth when tho Colonel, stiffening up and
bracing his shoulders, interrupted with:
"I bog your pardon, Senator, but would
you be willing that I Hhoultl take up in
succession the different charges made?"
"Yes," said the chairman.
In the lirst place," began Mr. Roose
velt, "I want to call your intention to this
fact: That there is no testimony against
me except in tho form of hearsay evidence,
hearsay statements of men who aro dead.
Mr. Archbold and Mr. I'enroso pivo what
purport to bo statements of Mr. Ullsi,
who is dead. Tho testimony of Mr.
Odell and the other gentleman as to the
Harrimnn fund is testimony as to what
they heard Harritnan, who is dead, say."
Mr. lloosevelt then jumped to the
letter Ipublished recently in Hearst's
Magazine written by former Represen
tative Hibley of Pennsylvania to John D.
Archbold of Standard Oil.
Didn't Invite Archbold Voluntarily.
That letter." said Mr. Roosevelt, bit
ing his words off in his sharp, character
istic way, "in substance states that Mr.
Sibley came down to seo me and speak
. to mo about seeing Mr. Archlxld and
fthat.l said I would be 'delighted' to see
him. nnd asked Mr. Sibley to bring Mr.
. Archlwld to luncheon. 1 do not remem
ber any conversation with Mr Sibley
at. which Mr. Archlxdd's namn was men
tioned, but 1 do remember his coming
on two or three occasions nbout the Stand
ard Oil Company and it is perfectly pos
sible he did bring up Arehbold's name."
"I certainly did not volunteer to ask
him to bring Mr. Archlxild down to ron
me. Any statement I made to Mr. Sibley
was made in answer to Mr. Sibley's re
quest that 1 should see any of tho men
thnt he named, nnd to nil such requests,
whether made by Mr. Sibley or any
one eli-e, I always answered that I would
f;ladly see any cue whom they chnso to
iring down who had anything serious to
epoak nf with mo.
"Mow, I do not remember Mr. Sibley
ever speaking to mo about Mr. Archlxild,
and a a matter of fact 1 rather doubt
it ho did speak to me about him. Hut
Senator Bourne I d.i remember asking
me to see Mr ArchtoId, and I saw Mr.
Archbold with Senator Boiirno on two
or three occasions, and on ono occasion
at my house in Oyster Hay,
"Senator Bourne brought Mr, Archbold
to lunch, so that if Mr Siblev had innde
such a request I should doubtless have
answered it in exactly the way he de
Wnnlrt Jire Any One Who Cnlleit.
Ilero Col. Roosevelt paused loncenoucli
to extend an emphatic list toward the com
mittee. "I wih now to put this ns explicitly
as I know how While I was lrcHidcnt,
If any man, truf-t magnate, labor leader.
Booialist, prizefighter, lawyer, clergyman,
oaf) 'nny mi-iness with me and wanted
to see me I always saw htm and if 1 thought
there was anything to bo gained from the
standpoint of the publio service in seeing
any man, then, without waiting for him
to ask, I would send for him.
"If I nm elected President, a year hence
If Mr. Rockefeller or any one else wanted
to see me I will seo him; and more thun
that, if I have anything to nk in con
nection with tho nubile service of .Mr.
Rockefeller or Mr. flompers or Mr.
Mitchell or Mr. .J. Pierpont Morgan or
nny one elre, I will send for him myself
and ask him nbout it."
A hum of approval swept over the
crowd in the room
"During my term of servion as Presi
dent," continued the Colonel, raising
his voice and emnhahi7.ing every word
with a bang of his hand on the chnir,
"it happened that I did not send for nny
representative of the Standard Oil t'otii
pjnv on my mwii initiative; it was always
on the request of somebody that I should
see them, but there were plenty of trust
magnates for whom I did send. I say
trust magnates I mean railroad kings
or men of that stamp. I think I sent for
Mr. Pierpont Morgan; I certainly saw him
in connect Ion with currency legislation
which we were trying to get through at
some period of my career. 1 do not
remember the exact date, but 1 remember
.sending for him.
"I have always acted and always shall
net upon tli theory that If, while in publio
iMMro, there is any man from whom I
think I can gain anything of value to tho
(ioveriiment . I will semi foi him and
talk it over with him, no matter how widely
I differ with him on other Xitits."
Sent for .Inhn I.. SulllTnn,
"Why." added Mr. Roosevelt, grinning,
"I have actually, while I was President,
sent, for trust magnates, labor leaders,
socialists, ilolm li. Sullivan, Battling
Nelson, Dr I.yman Abbott. I could go
on indefinitely with the list of people
whom, at various times, I have seen or
sent for And if I am elected President
again I shall continue exactly the same
course of conduct without the deviation
of a hair's breadth. And If ever 1 find
that, my virtue js so frail that if won't
ptand being brought in contact with
either a trust magnate or a socialist or
a labor leader, I will get out of public life. "
.Mm il I (he llfirrlmnii niialiiesi,
Now about the ll iniman business,"
Roosevelt rnntliiiici1 "I feel, gentle
men, erj HfinngK i l hoiii ought not
to be need for any n uigent man to nsk
ono additional iietloii after reading the
letters written by me at that time to Mr.
It win appaient from the start that
Quality Never Varies
Mr, Roosevelt wtih angry clear through
over the continued agitation of the liarri
"I call your attention espoolnlly to the
letter of October 14, 1B04," ho began,
"which contains the phrase 'practical
men,' which has Ixhmi nccetited by men
who themselves evidently identify prac
ticality with Imseness na having some
improper significance. My consistent
effort in politics has been to secure tho
iriumpns or mo practical man woo is
also an Idealist and a docent man: mv
effort in politics has been to build up n
party or practical men wno snnn oe men
of the highest standard of integrity.
Thouch I most abhor a vicious man. I
dislike almost equally, bernttso I regard
us almost equally noxious, the man who.
however good his Ideals, is Impractical
and can do nothing decent In politics
because he is impractical, anil whenever
on effort is made to show that the word
'practical implies in tho user somo im
proper motive 1 always regard It as a
sovoro moral reflection on tho character
of tho man who makes tho accusation
This was the first tlmo the Colonel had
ever given an explanation of his famous
"practical men" letter. Tho letter runs
as follows, boing dated Octolier 14, 1WI:
A sufrccstlon hns como to me In n round
about way that you do not think It wise
to como on to see mo In these closing weeks
of the campaign, but that you are reluctant
to refuse Inns much as 1 havo asked you,
Now, my deal sir, you and I are practical
men, nnd yoe urn on the ground and know
tho conditions better than 1 do,
"Remember," added Mr, Roosevelt,
"that the word 'practical' there had refer-
enoo to, and could only have referenco to,
uarriman a wing remnant to reiuso to
visit me for fear mv feelings would be
hint, ns I had asked him to come." ...
men .Mr. noosevoit reau anotnor son
tenoo from tho letter:
If you tblnk thero Is any danger of your
visit to mo causing trouble, or If you think
there Is nothing special 1 should bo in
formed about, or no matter in which I
could give aid
"I call your attention," Mr. Roosovelt
interjected again, "to the fact that there
is not a hint or suggestion of mv getting
aid, but it was as to whether I could give
Again the witness resumed the letter
where ho had left off:
why of course give up the visit for the
time being, and then n few weeks hence
that Is, after the election before I write
my message I shall get you to como down to
discuss certain tlovernment matters not
couneoted with tho campaign.
"You will seo," said tho Colonol, his
voice vibrating, "that that letter is abso
lutely incompatible with anv thorv
that I was asking Mr. Uarriman to como
clown in my own interests or that I in
tended to make nny kind of request lor
aid from him. It was a clear statement
that 1 had nothing to ask of him and that
all I cared to see him nljout I could see
him alout just as well after the election.
No Tlrfercnpr to Ilnrrlmnn A III.
In Mr. Horrlman's subsequent letters
to me and in his previous letteis to me
and my letters to him as laid before your
committee you can see that there is
never a reference to my getting aid from
him in any shape or way.
"1 had written that letter to Mr. Uarri
man, and 1 presume after he hud receivisl
it, because it was six days later, on Octo
ber 20, Mr. Uarriman telegraphed Mr.
Ioel) to call him up on the telephone
Mr. Ioeb canio to me and told lue Mr
Uarriman wishtsl to see mo about the
State campaign in New York, that it was
running badly, that he believed i lint Mr
Iliggins. the Republican candidate for
(iovetnor, would be defeated if some
thing was not done, nnd mat he wished
to see me.
" Ihrough Mr. Loeb I made the ap
pointment with llr. Uarriman. This
was made at Mr. llarriman's request, a
request made by telegrnplllatld telephone
to Mr loeb, Mr. Loeb was present
during cither "II or mot of the inter
view Tlieie was no pos-ibilitv of anv
misunderstanding during that interview
no possibility 1 mention that fact
because I have seen well meaning but
rather flabby persons say there may have
neen a misunderstanding iiei.-n Air.
Uarriman and myself. 'I hc.ro was not.
and there was no room for a nn-ninder-standing.
Mr Uarriman had the con
versation with melthat 1 hao detailed
in my letter to the committee "
By this time Mr. lloosevelt hail become
thoroughly aroused. Perspiration was
streaming down his face and the stenog
raphers were suffering from cramps
Mr lloosevelt i,i u -''i! to wiwi tln steam
from his glasses and mop his brow.
Ilnrrlmnn the Srrlier, llr Snj.
"At that 'time, a fortnight before tho
election," ho continued, "every one knew
that the national campaign In New York
was in such a state that 1 was certain
to carry New York 'llmre was a doubt
whether Iliggins could or not Mr
Uarriman was close to Mr. Ode, who
was managing Mr Iliggins's campaign
Mr. Uarriman stated in substance to me
that he had to have more money for that
campaign and that I ould havo to ask
Cortelyou or Bliss to help him out. because
they were not helping, him out, and after
somo conversation with him I turwd to
Mr Loeb and asked Mr lieb to call up
either Mr lllt-sor.Mr t'ortelyoii, I forget
which, mid state what Mr llarriniaii had
said and ask if if would not be possible
to help Mr. Uarriman out. Ilarnmau
had stated that ho had homo so much
of the extienso that he could not bear any
more and must receive some help, and Mr
I,oeb callisl up either Mr Buss or Mr
Cortelyou and I subsequently called up
one or the other. 1 think the answer
that 1 received in each case was that they
would see what could be done
"I wish to call attention to the fact."
continued Col. Roosevelt, "thnt .liulge
Puell, who was assistant treasurer to
Mr Bliss, and Mr. Sheldon, who had some
connection with Mr Bliss's committee,
not n oi mom nave lesuneii to your com
mittee, and that Mr Bliss in a statement
in the AVir York Hi niM, allstutee.xphcit ly
that the money was not raised liy Mr.
HflrrlmiLM Tor I fin nut IrilliLl r.'LMlli.'ilin, i Iml
it was rafsed through Mr Bliss to help
out ,ir, iiarriinau in i'i ntaie campaign -
l oi uoiiKneil continued show roll
siderable feeling over the Ihliiiman eon
trihutioii charge Ho banged his flxf.
on the arm of the chair and declared thai
Ills letters alone showed there whs not a
shred of truth in Mr. Ilariimau's state.
"I never askeil Mr Uarriman. directly
or Indirectly, for a dollar to help In that
or any other campaign in which 1 wan
concernisl," ileclansl the witness
Col. lloosevelt added that Mr Ilurri
niim told him the National Cominitten
had plenty of money nnd it was this momiv
that Mr. Iiarriinau wanted to obtain lor
the State committee through .Mr ltoose.
Col. Hoohovclt then tool: up .Iiulgo
Parker's charges in the loot campaign,
lie contended that the graveness of the
charges lay in the assertion that "the
corporations hnd been blackmailed" into
contributing, not in tho sUtuiauab tbist
' ssssssssssH-sssB'' -
r Mf jBwxPBBBBBHBBBBr'
i'i lUr JKBBBBbI
L 'iB ' -iBBBBBBBBBH
corporations were contributing to the
Mr. lloosevelt assorted thnt before re
plying to Parker in tho IU04 campaign
lie got personal assuranco from Mr. llliss-
anil air Cortelyou, that "no promisoor any
kind, sort or description, express or im
plied," had been made in connection with
Ho callisl the committee's attention to
the fact that it was entirely legal for the
corporations to contribute in 1P0I nnd
that in 1SWI it had been hailed ns a pa
triotic act. Tho Democrats on tho com
mittee squirmed when Mr. Hoosovelf
called their attention to the testimony of
the late John A. McCall. president of tho
New York I.ifo Insurance Company,
before the investigating committio of the
New York Legislature. Mr, McCall said
that his life was "made weary by tho
Democratic candidates chasing for money"
in that lsmt campaign. The Colonel con
tinued reading the McCall statement,
now and then grinning with evident satis
faction. This seemed n bitter pill for the Demo
cratic members of the committee.but thev
smiled as tho Colonel looked at them anil
Cnrporntlnni Alrilnir Ilnth llnra.
"I submit that because I wish to em
phasize tho fact that it was a matter of
common knowledge that in thnt cam
paign corporations were contributing on
Mr. lloosevelt turned then to state
ments made by Senator I'enroso and
Mr. Archbold in regard to the late Cor
nelius N. Bliss 's alleged representations to
the Standard Oil man.
"I wish to call vour nttention to this
fact," said Mr. lloosevelt, "in connection
with Mr. Arehbold's testimony ns in
connection with Mr llarriman's testi
mony, that each testified that thny got
no improper consideration from the
Administration. Mr. Archbold and Mr.
liarriman alike complaints!, not that the
.Miministrntinn inn wnai it ought not to
have done. Their complaint is that the
Administration refused to lo what it
ought not to do. The complaint of Mr.
Archbold and Mr. Uarriman is that they
did not get anything from the Adminis
tration." Mr. lloosevelt paused and added em
phatically: "'I hat is true. Mr. Archbold testifies
that Cornelius Bli.s. who is dead,
attempted to blackmail him and that
Cornelius Bliss told him that I knew of
it. I do not for one moment believe that
Mr. Bliss ever tried to blackmail him,
In anv event, not only did 1 not know
of any such efforts, if (hey worn made,
but. as you see by the letters I have sent
to you or Hit befoie you. I explicitly
directed as soon as there was any rumor
nbout nny such contribution that if
received it should be returned. and I hail
the assurance of Mr. Cortelvou. reiterated
the other day. that no such contribution
had boon received, nnd Mr. Loeb had,
over the phone from Mr. Blisu, n similar
assurance- that no contribution from the
Standard Oil would be icceived."
"Now." Kiiii Mr. lloosevelt. slidinc
forward in his seat toward the committee.
"I want to can tho attention or this com
mittee to the testimony of Messrs. Arcs
bold and Penrose against themnelves.
"Mr. Penrose teslllles that he ntlviscd
Mr. Archlxild to have the Standaid Oil
Company submit to the blackmail and that
he did il for fear they would incur hos
tility in certain nunrters. Thev could
only incur hostility of myself ns the Presi
dent, o: ,tne Atioruoy-wcnerai ami or
the Commissioner of Corirations, with,
1 supiosO his superior, tho Secretary of
Commerce and lilsir.
".Vow I want to call your nttention to
the fact that they could incur my hositlity
only if they violatisl tho law, I could not
bo hostile to them and I had no way of
being hostile to them if they obeyed tho
law, any more than a oliccmnn con be
hostile to any man hero unless ho dis
obeyed a Inw. So that the puriose of
Mr. Penrosejin advising Archbold to hnvo
the Standard Oil make that contribution
could only have been to secure it against
(ioveriiment action, taken because it
had violated tho law."
Should ThrntT Prnrnm Ont.
Again Mr. Roosevelt gave evidence
of considerable feeling, ns lie exclaimed:
"I have been Police Commissioner.
If it were proved to me when I were Police
Commissioner thnt miy policeman had
done in rt ferenco lo a lawbreaking liquor
seller or gambler what Senator .Penrose
admits he did he, a Senator of the' United
States. -in connect ion with the Standard
Oil Company 1 would have thrown that
Kilieem.iu elf the force, and I hold that the
Senate of the Cnitisl States should throw
Mr. Pentose out of the Senate on thoail
inlssioii that he has himself mado before
this committee "
By the time Mr. lloosevelt finished this
sentence ho had partly risen from his
chair I'.very word had been hurled out
with force and had been hacked up with
a ehntaeteristio bang of tho list. Again
lime vim called while Mr, lloosevelt wiped
Ihiyjierspiiation from his face.
"Now as to Mr. Archbold," he went on,
"he test llli's that he mado this contri
bution and expected some Mad of abso
lutely improper consideration. He testi
Ihw that .Mr Bliss tried to .blackmail him
and yet he lestilles.lhat he regarded Mr.
Bliss ns an CM'ollcut fellow. Ilo evidently
does not seo that there is anything ob
jectionable in what he alleges Mr. Bliss
did. He has not a word of complaint
to make against Mr, Bliss for attempting
'to oNtort from him a contribution a
coiiiriout ion i or nnproM'r purposes,
ills complaint Is thnt l.o did not get any
thing for the contribution he made, 'Ilio
complain! Is that nothing improper was
done for him by the Adiiiinlstnition,
I call your attention to his testimony,
where ho says that darkest Abyssinia
has nothing lo show comparable to the
treatment admin inter ed to to Standard
IN GOOD HUMOR
Oil Company by the Roosovelt Adminis
tration. The Abyssinian Treatment,
It is perfectly true, Sir. Roosovolt
added with a smile, "that during my
administration I did administer tho Abys
sinian treatment to the Standaid Oil
Company, becauso it needed it, nnd if
ever I were President again nnd the Stand
ard Oil Company or nny other company
acted in that way I would give it tho Abys
sinian treatment again, and I would bo
havo as I behaved with tho Standard Oil
Company, except that now 1 think I should
bo successful in getting passed the kind
of law which I then repeatedly asked for
but failed to get (Kissed and which would
have enabled mo to deal effectively with
corporations of tho stamp of the Standard
Col. lloosevelt then referred to Mr.
Arehbold's statement that ho had gono to
Bliss after the Roosevelt administration
had begun to attack tho Standard Oil
Company and Mr. Bliss had said it was
n matter of regret but that ho had no
influence with Mr. lloosevelt.
"That statement Is only partially true,"
said tho Colonel. "Mr. Bliss did have
great influence with me. I had the great
est regard nnd respis.'t for him. Any
statement ever mr.de to mo by Mr. Bliss,
or any statement he might have made,
would have received my most careful
and respectful consideration, nnd tho
consideration given with the earnest
hope that I would find it proper to do what
Why They Are "Aanlnst Me."
I would also like to call your attention."
continued Mr. lloosevelt, "to thiH fact:
All of these men who testify against mo
testify that I refused to do or did not do
anything improper in their interest, and
they are all now opposing me; they are
for one of tho candidates against me those
of them who are left They aro all hostile
to me. They all testify that under my
administration nothing improper wnsdone
for them; and they absolutely know that
nothing improper ever will be done for
them under me, nnd they are against me."
Mr lloosevelt assorted that the Stand
aril Oil people know in inoi just exactly
whatjthey had to expect of him.
"I had my brush with them back in
1003." said he, "when 1 pushed legislation
through Congress establishing n Bureau
Referring to tho contribution of $150,000
by .1. P. Morgan, Mr. Roosevelt declared
that Mr. Morgan too had reason to know
in ltKM just what miRht be expected of his
"I knew," said the witness, "that Mr.
Morgan had felt very much aggrieved
over the bringing of the Northern Securi
ties suit and I understood that ho had
expressed himself adversely in very
strong terms to the action I took during
the anthracite coal strike nnd I had sup
posed they worn hostile to me. I had
not known that he bad contributed to
my campaign fund and I wish emphatically
to corroborate what Mr. Morgan has said.
Neither Mr. Morgan nor nny body speaking
for him ever mentioned to mo that Mr.
Morgan or any of Ids associates had ever
contributed nnd they never hinted at
there boing any reason of any kind why
I should show 'anv favor to Mr. Morgan
or to anv i ono else connectinl with Air.
Morgan for any reason of that kind."
Jast Has Itrnrrt nf Morgan filft.
The committee apparently was sur
prised to hear that Mr Roosevelt hod just
learned, of tho JUO.OOO Morgan contribu
tion. "I was surprised," the Colonel reiterated.
"when 1 round that .Mr. .Morgan had con
tributed, because I had supposed from
my actions during my first odmlnistrntion
thnt Mr. Morgan had felt that I had not
treated him well and that he had been
hostile to me, I first heard of Mr. Mor
gan's contribution through tho testimony
yesterday; I did not know that ho had
Mr. Roosevelt took occasion to pay a
high tribute to Mr. Bliss, deolaring that
no man had rendered services of greater
value to the country and more entirely
disinterested. He had never mado a
request of him, Mr. Roosevelt testified,
unless it was ono or two minor appoint
ments. "I should say," added Mr. Roosevelt,
"tliat ho recommended men to to mo for
appointment, just about as frequently
as Orovor Cleveland did. Mr. Cleveland
recommended ono or two to me."
Speaking of charges thnt havo been
made that money was improperly used
in the Colonel's interest in the recent pre
convention campaign, especially at tho
national convention in Chicago, Mr,
"I saw tho different gentlemen who are
Interest ed in my campaign both at Chi
cago and beforoChicago, and I explained
with tho utmost oxplicitness to them
thnt I would not tolerate any effort of
any kind being made by Hie us of money
or the off or of pnt ronu go or t he offer of nny
consideration whatever to got a delegate
for me of any kind, sort or description.
Colonel Mnil nt lllllrs.
Mr. Roosevelt then jumped to the
charges that have been made that his pro
convention camMiign cost 13,0(10,000. oxt
o tho liarriman matter Air. Roosovelt
showed tlio deepoHt resentmont over this
matter. He pounded the arm of his chair,
his face flushed and ho gavo every evi
dence of being mad all the way through
at Charles I). Hilles, Mr. Taft's national
"I notice," said ho, "it has been stated
in the publio print by Mr. Hilles and
Congressman Barthnldt that the Pro-1
gresslves had expended $.1,000,000 in tiinir
(irimary. 1 suggest very strongly that
these gentlemen he brought Immediately
before tint committee und required to
muko their statements good. I draw very
iUi dintinotioa betwtwa Um iniquity of
breaking the eighth and breaking the
"If Mr. Hlllcfl and Mr. Dnrtholdt can
frove their assertion, I want to know it.
f they can't, they' should not only bo
required to apologize but they should
both of them Immediately bo driven out
of publio life. That kind of statement Is
nn infamy unless It is absolutely based on
fact. It Is (heir duty to make tho ac
cusation if they knew it to be true, nnd it is
infamy to mako it if thoy don't know it to
Right here Col. Roosevelt seized an on
nortunlly to read the committee a little
lecture for having devoted all their efforts
thus far to tho Progressive party. It
was the only time t hat tho Colonol showed
any disposition to find fault with tho com
mittee. Senator I'aynter explained that
all nf the arrangements for calling wlt
nesso were left, to the chairman, who is
ono of Col. Roosevelt's supporters.
"But. Senator PayfAter, protested tho
Colonel, "as far as F am concerned my
complaint was that as long as you heard
Archbold and Penrose you should have
Riven me a chance to oomo down before
roll the following Monday and bo heard,
do not think it was quite fair to let a
month ro by beforo I was able to mako
my answer beforo the committee.
Charges Committee la Unfair.
You say it is fair to give me and Dixon
a chance to answer Hilles and Dnrtholdt.
This is not tho time to glvotus the chance.
lou should first or all bring Hilles and
Bartholdt hero and see if thoy have any
proof of their assertions. It ought not
to be necessary for us to answer them
until they have shown good faith by sub
stantiating in some way their statements.
"It is only thirty days before election.
After election, as you know, all interest
in this thing will greatly diminish. It is
only fair that men like Congressman
McKlnley and Charles Taft, that men
like McComhs and Mr. MoAdoo the first
two represents ing Mr. Taft and the other
two representing Mr. Wilson that men
liko Mr. Crane should.come, here and come
Col. lloosevelt hnd taken shout two
hours to make his statement and Chair
man t.lann ordered a recess of on hour and
a half for lunch.
lho former President aDoeared on the
s,tand promptly at the reconvening of the
committee ready to bo croes-quostloned.
Thoro was another big crowd at tho after
noon session and the colonel was cheered
hoartily as ho passed into tho building.
Senator Paynter undertook to question
Col. Roosevelt. Senator Oliver of Penn
sylvania, a Taft supporter and ono of
Senator Penrose's friends, said that he
had no questions to ask of tho witness.
Colonel.' said Senator Paynter, "I
understood you to nay this morning in
your testimony that tho first informal on
you had that J. P. Morgan t Co. had
matio a contrinution to tno campaign tuna
of 1904 was what vou hod seen in the papers
mat la tno first information I remem
ber about it," replied Mr. Roosovelt.
Knew of Prick Contribution.
'0. You did not siy whether or not you
had Information as to the contributions
made by Ceorge J. Oould or H. C. Krlck.
A. I did not know anything about It; I do
not now. I knew nothing whntever about
the contribution of Mr. Could until this
moment until you had spoken of It, f did
not know that he contributed. Hut Mr.
Krlck I knew had contributed heavily I do
not know the amount and he offered to
contribute more heavily still. Mr. Knox
told me thnt Mr. Frlck was one of my strong
Q. Was that pending the campaign?
A. That was In 1004 yes, sir.
Q. ou then had no Information that Mr.
Could had made this contribution until this
development' A. Not that I know of no.
sir. 1 do not remember ever hearing Mr.
Gould's name until this moment. 1 did not
even look at the testimony of Mr. Sheldon.
Q. Now, you seem to have heard of the
Standard OH contribution Mr. Arehbold's
contribution? A. Yes, sir; that Is, I doubt
whother 1 heard that It wns from Archbold,
but 1 heard that there was a Standard OH
(J. Ho thoro was no rule In 1904 limiting
the amounts which a corporation could
contribute to the campaign? A. None what
ever. Col. Roosevelt had said that the rule
was laid down by him thnt no contri
bution was to bo received on conditions
that it implied a promise.
Senator Paynter, in reviewing tho
letters that passed lietween Mr. Uarriman
and Roosevelt In 1004, gave it as his im
pression that Mr. Uarriman had visitixl
sir. Roosovelt nt tho White House In re
sponse to Mr. Rooeevelt'H invitation.
Roosevelt argued hotly that Mr. liarriman
did not come in response to an invitation,
but thnt the record of cornsxindenco
showed that this Invitation extended by
him had been nullified by sulwequent
letters. Mr. Paynter finally got the
former President to acknowledge that,
on the face of the correspondence it was
at least left discretionary with Mr. Harri
man to decide as to whether or not ho
should make the trip to Washington.
Mr. Paynter then quizzed the Colonel
In regard to his contention that the Harri
man $240,000 contribution wns not a gift
to tho national but to the New York State
committee. He called his attention to
tlie fact that Mr. Morgan had testified
he refused to make a contribution except
to the National Committee.
All Done to Help lIIRlns.
Q. Was the republican committee in
the State of New lork loyal to the Republi
can national ticket In 11)04? A. Why, I
know nothing to the contrary.
Q. And any effort that it would put forth
to aid tho llepuhllcan cause would aid tho
national ticket to the samo extent that
It would tho local ticket? A Not at all.
1 got n much greater majority than Iliggins
0. Yes, I understand that. A. And the
fight had to bo waged purely for Hlgglns
Q, That has been tho Idea you have had
from the situation In New York that you
did not need the assistance for yourself?
A Yes, Senator Paynter. It wss not merely
my Idea; It wns Mr. llarriman's Idea; It
was the Idea of all others. They all knew
I was snfe and they were all trying to de
velop strength for Mr. Iliggins, If you
will turn to the columns of the immediate
press of New York at the time, or look at
the betting on me and on Hlgglns, you will
see the difference In the betting,
Mr. Pomerene, the other Democratic
member of the committee, then took the
Colonel in hand. He queried him as to
his selection of Mr. Cortelyou as na
tional Chairman. Mr. Roosevelt said that
ho invited Mr. Bliss. Kllhu Root and
United States Senator Crane of Massachu
setts to serve as national chairman
before ho selected Mr. Cortelyou. Mr.
Roosevelt deeply resented the suggestions
that havo been made that he selected
Cortelyou because he had been Secretary
of Commerce and ijibor and had access
to all the corporation secrets gathered
by tho bureau of corporatlone. Mr.
Roosovelt testified that he did not in
terfere with the details of either Mr.
Bliss's or Mr. Cortelyou's work.
Mr. Pomerene called Col. Roosevelt's
nttention to a newspaper statement
attributed to Mr. Bliss to the effect that
Mr. Roosevelt issued orders ngninst ac
cepting certain contrlbutionn, but that
his orders were ignored as "it wns rec
ognized thnt this was something about
which ho must not intorforeand I brooked
"I do not remember Mr Bliss ever say
ing anything liko thnt to mo," said Col,
Roosevelt, "but I do remember Mr, Loeb
telling me (hat when ho called him up
bv telenhono over tho Standard Oil con.
tribution (hat he answered very shortly
and seemed to bo vory much irritated.
Ho seemed to think that tho question
that Mr. I.oeb put in him from mo con
tained somo implications on his good
faith, and was inclined apparently to
Prick Wohtri Make I.osa Hood.
Mr. Roosovelt testified that Secretary
of Btato'Knox. then a Senator, told him
(bat U. C Riok had Mid whan Ubnard
Standard Oil contribution returned:
"Well, If thnt means a loss lo the cam
paign I will contribute moro money to
make If good."
Air. lloosoveir declared tnninenaannn
no knowledge of the contritiblions by tho
Q. Were you ever advised s to the part
or proportion of tho funds of the campaign
which wero contributed by corporations?
A. No, never. I never hoard It discussed.
Q. Now, during this campaign those large
Interests in Now York were supporting
your candidacy, were thoy not? A, Certain
of them, yes sir.
I). Do you know who contributed the
fund of $:w).CKX) which was raised by Mr.
liarriman? A. 1 do not know anything
nbout it. I saw yesterday that Mr. Morgan
said he contributed fifty of It.
Q. Did you have any knowledge thnt
during tho campaign there was n conference
In New York city held by representatives
of the largo financial Interests In which
ways and means were considered and de
vised of assisting the Ilepubllcnn cam
paign? A. No, sir.
Can't Iteealt 910,000 Contribution.
Senntor ' Paynter wanted to know If
Mr. Roosevelt had ever heard of Horman
Frasch. Mr. Roosovelt hesitated. Thon
"I feci that I will have toisk if I know
him. I know a large number of people.
(Addressing Mr. Loeb): Do you know a
family by the name of Frasch? You
know I rontlnunllv meet neonlo who come
up to mo and say: 'I was tho man who
waved the flag when you came into such
and such a place."
4MB gentleman, arnwjea mynior,
was verv anxious to heln vou wave the
flag. According to Mr. Hooker, he gave
"Mr. Frasch, you say, helped us at the
Dreconvontion? exclaimed the Colonol,
tea; mat is wnai mr. nooxer saia. ,
I will muko his acnuAlntanco at once
as an intimate friend Mr. Roosevelt re
"Mr. Hooker reported that he contrib
uted $10,000 to aid you," said Senator
"Bully for Mr. Frasch,' exclaimed the
Senntor Paynter nsked u Mr. Kooso
velt knew a man named Clark Orcer of
Georgia. Tho Colonel wasn't going to
lie caught mis time and saia ne ua ana
thought ho was n white man.
Mr. Greer is the man who Is rerjorted
to have swung somo of the Georgia Taft
delegates to Roosevelt at Chicago.
Mr. Roosevelt know nothing about the
cost of his preconvention campaign.
lie denied tnat it nail neen unaerwruien
by George W. Perkins and Frank A.
lunsov. but ho acknowledged that somo
of his trips hail been underwritten by
uiem and that tney nnd neen reimuurseu
later. All told Mr. Roosevelt was on tho
stand nbout live hours, and he seemed
relieved when Chairman Clapp told, him
he could go.
William Loeb, Jr., Collector of tho
Port of Now York and former Secretary
to President Roosevelt, took tho witness
stand as soon as his former chief con
cluded. He gave his recollection of tho
visit of Mr. liarriman.
"Immediately after Mr. liarriman was
shown into the President's room," said
Mr. Loeb, "I went in or was culled in. 1
was probably called in becauso of my
knowledge of New York politics, but 'I
was there through substantially nil of
the interview between tho President'nnd
Mr. liarriman. Mr. Harriman explained!
the situation in Now York. He said the
State wns all right ns far as the national
ticket wns concerned, but there wnn a re
volt against tho State ticket and Iliggins
because tho ticket was rcgnrded as Odeil
made. Tub New Yonis Sun was carrying
on a warfare on Odell and had been' for
three or four years.
I.orh llnrka Up Hooscvplt.
The President said that he did not
know tho state of the National Committee
funds, but he instructed Mr. Harritnan
to go to see Mr. Cortelyou and said lie
would hata to see Iliggins defeated.
"At tho samo time he instructed me
call up Mr. Cortelyou on the long distance
telephone and ask him to seo what could
bo done. I did before Mr. liarriman left
and Mr. Cortelyou told mo that ho would
see Mr. Bliss and to say that he would
lie glad to see Mr. Harrimnn when he
"Did you know of Mr. Harriman raising
n fund of $250,000?
"I did not." was the reply.
The committee then tapped Mr. Loob's
memory in the Standard Oil contribution.
He confirmed the Colonel's testimony of
the morning on that point.
"Do you know anything about the cam
paign of 1001 that you have not already
stated that would be of service to this
committee?" Mr. Loeb was asked.
"Senator." said Mr. Loeb with muoh
earnestness, "my lips havo heretofore
been sealed. I know most, of the details
of all of Col. Roosevelt's campaigns. I
would not have spoken here to-dav but
for your subprrna. It will bo just as easy
to prove that the moon is made of green
cheese as to impugn Col. lloosevelt's
official or personal integrity in'thls matter
of corporation contributions or as to any
other official act of his. "
It Senators Paynter and Pomereno tried
to extract rrom .Mr. i.oeii an admission
that Mr. Harriman came to tho While
House at the President's initiative, but he
would not concede it and repeatedly in
sisted that Harriman sought theinterview
At the conclusion of .Mr. Loob's testb.'
mony the committee took a recess until
Monday. Senator Clapp announced that
he would mako publio to-morrow the lfst
of witnesses for next week.
Col. Roosevelt and his party, including
Collector Loeb, returned to New York
on tho midnight trnin over tho Pennsyl
vania. LET T. R. TALK, SAYS PENROSE.
Senator Will Answer at Ftroper
Time, lie Declares.
Philadelphia, Oct, 4. Senator Boles
Penrose, when asked about tho statement
made to-day beforo the Senate invest!
cntinc committee bv Pol nnno,..i.
that "Senator Penrose should bo driven
rrom the hennto because of his acknowl
edged friendliness with Standard nn
"I haven't a word to sav. Let Duu.
Volt talk. When tho nrnner tlmo
I will have something to say.
mere is a whole lot of difference in
making a statement." the b,niin i
been nllnfnrl jib unvtnn Kn...l t
. . .,,b ,,,, nciiiK nolo
to prove the truth of that Mntemont.
Roosovelt seems to bo able to 'get nwav
With vnsv 111 , n ' , 1.1... V
'is ' l KPI OHO H 1J
necessary to nail everything down fast."
lho Senator is compiling data on ex-
"'"'w ri iiiin pim, Which he proposes
tell the history of tho political llfo of Klinn
a (Penrose knows it and how ho nccuiuu-
j i in n mil Il
Senator Penrose is nlso preparinc
some ilnfit nn V. A v., I', i. l . ""M
,,,, V " " '"'I aiseilulirC.
I he battle was opened on A'nn Vnlkenburg
a"" V .V"::"'; " ' " ' 'od
CoBsidy. K,n8"r I"-
M'CORMICK WANTS TO WAIT.
Wishes nnte for Ills lesllmonr Ile-
fore Committee dinnerd.
Modill McCormlck. wlm ln, I ..i.
" .'il rami-
pcenned to testify before the Clapp com
mitteo in Washinirt on on TnnLi.l,,.. .ln
nsk to have the date changed, Col, ltoose.
velt is due in Chicago next week nnd Mr.
McCormlck wants to see him there.
When 1 go on tho stand." Mr
mlck said yesterday. "I shull testify that
i iiuvo coinnmiieci money to finance
Col. Roosovolt out of my own pocket.
I shall nlso demand that the commlt
teo call Fred W. Upham, collector for
tho TtAnnhltnnn I r l .
that Mr. Roosevelt had ordered
iu'J mm, ana asK
him tttd tumm ot contributor tud the
amounts they gave, ne probably will
have some Interesting things to tell that
will be more valuable thsn anything
I can tell about the Roosevelt fund." '
In a statement handed out at I lie n.
tlonal Progressive headnunrtern vi..
I day William IL Croeden, Chief Inspect
........ - j.ifj.j iij.-tii, iiiireAti
of Illinois, is charged with offering to trails
Tnft votos for votes for Gov. Deneen.
SAYS HARRIMAN COT S250.000.
Senator Chamberlain Tells nf Talk
With late Itallroad Man.
Dalles, Ore,, Oct. 4.Unltcd Stats
Senator Goorgo E. Chamberlain of Oregon
in an address here said K. H. Harriman
had lold him In 1904 that after Harrunm
had raised $100,000 for Col. Roosevelt's
campaign Roosevelt wns "dissatisfied"
with that amount nnd he had raised I50,ooo
Senator Chamberlain said that whlls
ho was Governor of Oregon In 1904 he
visited tho Harriman summer home, Pell,
can Bay Lodge, near Klamath Falls.
During this call tho conversation drifted
to the subject of the pending Presiden
tial election. Mr. Harriman, the Senator
said, volunteered the statement already
Mr. Harriman added, continued Senator
Chamberlain, that "this year 10041 I w
be a Democrat because Roosevelt has not
treated mo right."
y Mr. Uarriman said, according to Senator
unnmnenain, mat iioosoveit intimated
plainly that the Harriman Interests would
not faro well should Mr. Harriman fail to
comply with the second demand.
DIDN'T SAY IT, BARTHOLDT,
Congressman Denies Charg-taji
Itnoscvelt Forces Spent f8, 000,000.
St. Lons, -Oot. 4. Concerning ths
testimony of Col. Roosevelt to-day In
which Roosevelt saldCongrossmanRlchard
Bartholdt of Missouri nnd Charles D.
Hilles should bo driven out of publio lift
or be compelled to prove a statement that
tho Roosevelt primary campaign fundi
this year amounted to $3,XK).000, )ar
tholdt to-night issued tho following state
ment: I have never stated that $3,000,000 wai
spent by the lloosevelt people In their
pre-convcntlon campaign. I may havs
snld in private conversation that Mr.
lloosevelt's pet trusts could easily af
ford to spend that amount In apprecia
tion of what he had done for them in
allowing, In violation of the lnw, ths
merger of the Tennessee Coal and Iron
Company with the United States Steel
Corporation. Rut I have no knowledge
of their party secrets and am totallv Ig
norant of their actual money transactions.
Itnston Third Party Mas Called.
Boston. Oct. 4. Matthew Hale, chair-
chusetts, has been summoned to Washing-
mil ny me Mmiue investigating commltti-e
to testify irgnrdlnR campaign expemll
Hires and contributions made In this State,
Hale Is ordered to bring along nil bouki
ROOSEVELT GIVES DINNER.
Kntcrtnln Krlendu After Testi
mony Ilefnre Clnpp Committee.
Washington, Oct. 4. Col. Roosevelt
had n small dinner party nt the New
Wlllard to-night. Among his guests
were Hear Admiral P. M. Rlxoy. re
tired, a former surgeon-general of tin
nnvy, nnd Mrs. Itlxey; Gen. and Mrs.
Anson Mills, John McIIheny, Civil Ser
vice Commissioner; William Loeb, Jr..
nnd representatives of the locnl ltoose
velt organization. The dinner wns In
formal. After leaving the Sennto the Colonel
devoted nn hour to Inspecting the
mounted specimens which ho sent to tin
Smithsonian Institution from his Afri
can hunt. Later he took a drive through
Rock Creek Park.
Col. Roosevelt nnd his party entered
their sleeper nt the Union Station at
10:30 on tho train that wns to leave
Washington for New York soon after
BUCK DEER HALTED BY A TRAIN.
et Tnnalrd In the Brake tlear, tint
Ilrrnka Array anil Hacnpes.
Nbwton, N. J Oct. 4, A big buck
deer swam tho Delaware River last
nlght-nnd enme up on tho embankment
of the Lehigh Railroad Just ns a freight
train came along. The engineer saw the
nnimol nnd stopped the train directly In
Its pnth. Without hesitation the dctr
started to pass under the cars. Twj
of the trainmen caught the animal by
the tall nnd nnother tried to pass a
loop uround Its prongs, hut the deer got
so tnngled up with the brake gear that
Il was a hard Job to get It out. When
the animal wns flnnllv riena,H ti,..
trainmen wero i nable to hold It and It
broke nwny am' ran up over the mouti
tnln to freedom.
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