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THE PITTSBURG DISPATCH, FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 1892.
Tlie Senate Committee Winds
Up Its Investigation in
A BAKKER ON THE STAND.
He Criticises Sheriff McCleary and
WILLIAM WEIBE ON AEBITBATION.
Councilman A. C Eofcertson Gives His
pirience Mitli Strikes.
PEFFER'S COMPREHENSIVE QUESTIONS
The Senatorial committee kept on at its
investigation of labor troubles at Home
stead and Pinkertonisra yesterday in cheery
Parlor C at the Hotel Duquesne. "We are
patriotic to a degree," remarked Senator
Gallinger, of New Hampshire, the chair
man of the committee, yesterday
morning, as an apology for sitting
on a holiday. Senator Peffer was
in periect iettle for asking the
longest questions possible, and his appetite
for useful information seemed insatiable.
In Chicago they accused the Kansas states
man of asking questions as big as a ten-acre
lot, but yesterday his colleague laughingly
admitted that they had grown as big as
Judge Mellon tras as attentive a listener
as the stenographer by whom he sat all the
morning. He enjoyed the proceedings im
mensely, and when Senator Gallincer apol
ogized for postponing his examination as a
witness till the afternoon, in order to cet
the testimony of Mr. Weihe and Mr.
Roberts, Judge Mellon said: "I am glad
to oblige this committee in any way I can,
ior I see that vou are reallv trying to get at
Captain Rodgers' Fateful Cruise.
Captain James B. Rodgers, of the Tide
Coal Company, was the first witness on the
stand. He told once more the story of his
voyage up to Homestead with the Little
Bill and the two barges lull of Pinkertons.
His most interesting answers were to ques
tions put him about the necessity of em
ploying armed guards to protect property.
Captain Eodgers said he certainly believed
corporations and individuals had the right
to hire armed guards; that they were neces
sary to protect buildings and other property
in case of dispute between employers and
their men. His experience in coal mining
had taught him that during strikes armed
guards were absolutely necessary, just as
banks and other institutions kept armed
watchmen to guard against thieves and other
Senator Peffer asked Captain Rodgers
Q. Would the Homestead men on July 6
Just as soon have filed on United States
troops as upon the Pinkertons? A. They
would, I believe. Fourth of July and pay
day had wrought them up into a great state
of excitement. "JL'hey were turbulent, had
been drinking a great deal, and were ready
to shoot at anyone, without respect to per
sons. Q. Vhy do employers hiie men from tho
tuibnlent clas-T A. Force of circum
stances; they have to employ the men they
can pet. Illiteracy is these men's greatest
curse, but it Is generally tho men of higher
wngeb and higher intelligence who start the
Q. Is there more 'tioublo in coal mining
than In any other pursuit? A. It seems so
Irora y, hat one read? in the papeis.
Tried to Land Them Secretly.
Q. When you took the Pinkertons up to
Homestead did you try to secuie secrecy!
A. I rememDer that Mr. Flick imp' essed his
ileaire for secrecy in the movement upon
me, so as to avoid a conflict, and that is why
the watchmen wcie taken up to the mill by
Q. Please tell us tho difference between a
still. e fend a lockout. A. It is a difference
that does not amount to much. In a strike
the men for some reason or other go out; in
the Homestead case the men were not al
ios ed to co u tck into the mill unless they
agreed to the t-cale prorosea by the firm,
andsn wcie locked out ntier being paM off.
Q When Mitri iff Gray left tho boat did he
make any miunenioiits lor thecaieofthe
1'iukerions on the boats? A. I don't know,
but I do know that Shei iff Gray took part
in all the consultations us to the movements
01 the men and the boats. Giay was in con
trol of tho boats.
Mr. Mellon laughed out loud when Sen
ator Peffer asked Captain Rodders why cer
tain men g t paid better wages than others,
and Captain Roilers cheerfully replied be
cause they were more stilled.
William Weihe, the ex-president of the
Amalgamated Association, next laid before
the committee in a very lucid manner ex
actly how the difference occurred between
the Carnegie Company and its men at
Homestead last summer, explaining that
the principal ohjectiou of the men was to
changing the scale-sicning date from sum
mer to winter, which they thought would
put them at a great disadvantage.
The Average Reduction Demanded.
Examined by Senator Gallinger:
Q. What would have been the average re
duction In wages iu the Homestead mills
had tne comiiany's scale been signed? A.
tichtcen per cent on an average some
would ha c buffered worse than others.
Q. Was the Carnegie Company forced by
trade conditions to reduce wages? A. They
could afford to keep on pa lug the same
O. After the Carnegie Company had lire-
sen ted its ultimatum, why did the men wait
till the day before the hist possible dny to
abkfora conference? A. The men had to
wait to ci n cr among themselves, to get tho
reports irom the lodses
Q Was there much intemperance at
Homestead? A. I have not much chance of
knowing, but I know that tho company
could always discharge a man addicted to
drink and he would have noiedicss; the
Amalgamated Association would not assist
h:tn to redress.
6. Wouid Homestead men have firoil on
the United States troops had tho landed
Irom barges? A. So; that's a mistaken
Q How no woiktnen look upon employ
ment ol armed bodies in connection with
labor dispu es? A. With grave suspicion.
There is a very bitter feelin. against the
Pinkertons. ir the barpes had contained
Lniiel States troops the Homestead men
would have received them as they did the
State troops, in a law-abiding manner.
Could liate Preiented Bloodshed.
Q How could bloodshed have been pre
vented at Homestead? A. If the Carnegie
Company had acceded to the request for a
inference and knpt up negotiations till
July 1 there would have been come amica
ble settlement reached: My experience is
"hat when things look as they did when the
'-'arnegle Company letched the Pinkertons
there t still a good chance of a mutually
satisfactory agreement. I do not believe
lie Carnegie property would have been ln
iuied. Mr. Weihe gave no account of his share
n the doings of July 6. He had asked Mr.
Prick to meet the Sheriff and him for con
'ere nee, but Mr. Prick declined the invita
ion, so he, Mr. Weihe, went to Homestead
A'ith other Amalgamated officials as peace
makers. Q What effect has the sending or detec
ives disnii-ea as workingmen among work
ngmen? A. Arouses suspicion and discon
tnt. The men leel uneasy.
Examined Mr. Peffer:
Q. Pinkertons are regarded as interfering
etween employers and employes? A- Yes.
Q. Are United States troops and State
nlittla objected to as peace preservers? A.
Ko. All workingmen who have given the
matter any study know that law and order
must bo preserved. They dislike Tinker
tons because they are men recklessly
gathered irom all sorts of places and of no
Q. Are work people more re'peotfnl to
United StatoH troops than those ot the State?
A. Ko, I think not. People respect any Kind
of lawful authority.
The Object of Labor Organizations.
Q. Are there not a few restless men in all
larjre manufactories who cause trouble? A.
Sometimes there are such men, but the labor
organizations have a tendency to keep Just
such men in order, to restrain their radi
calism. Q. Is It from native or unnaturalized
workmen that most trouble emanates? A.
There Is a class of foieigners who don't un
derstand English who feel like doing as if
thev were In the foreign countries from
which tbey come, and not in accordance
with American principles. Ihese are the
Sla a. Hungarians and Poles. I have always
found Americans ready to be Just and to
discuss matters fairly with employer", and
to make concessions when needed, but
many or the foreign-born workmen are not.
Q. Do you think the detective agencies
sending out of uniformed men is a necessity
or a good thing? A. Xo, usually productive
or bad results.
Mr. Weihe then described the origin and
growth, the objects and attainments of the
Amalgamated Association, which he said
had always thrown its influence against
strikes, the first long or importaut strike in
its history being that at Homestead. He
gave in detail the wages usually earned in
the iron and steel trade by skilled mechan
ics. A lair average wage was 53 00 a day.
Mr. Peffer betrayed great eagerness to com
prehend the entire field in his questions.
His last question was:
Q. What is the best way or settling dis-
Butes between employers and employed,
Ir. Weihe? A. By both parties getting to
gether and talking matters over. The con
ference committee is the best peace engine
William T. Boberts Testifies.
When Mr. Weihe had accepted his 52
witness fee, somewhat larger pay for an
hour's talk than the average mechanic
makes in the same time with muscle and
brain, his place was taken by William X.
Roberts, who had come in with the big
chieftain of the Amalgamated a stout,
brawny head, whose head hardly came up to
.Mr. Weihe s chest. JUr. iinherts is a vice
President ot the Amalgamated and one of
the Homestead leaders, whose name prob
ably is to be found on the little list which
Mr. Prick says does not exist
Mr. Roberts said he worked in the Car
negie mills at Homestead till the men
went out in June last, his wages averaged
?3 50 to 54 00 a dav as heater. He gave an
account of the dispute about the scale
which led to the lockout. About the mid
dle ol February Superintendent Potter had
said to him: "Billy, some of you heaters
have drawn enormous wages, and the firm
means to cut you down." Roberts replied
that he did not see why men who had been
averaging 51 a day should be cut down.
Mr. Child;, who was present, said he didn't
think any man in the mill got so poorly
paid as that. That was the first warning of
the intended cut in wages.
Believes There Is a Blacklist.
Examined by Senator Gallinger:
Q. Are the Carnegie's rehiring their old
men without reference to any list? A. I
would not like to swear that there is a black
list in the Carnegie office, but I am sure that
theie is. Theynio discriuiinnting ugainst
former employes who had influence among
Q. Were the men at Homestead ready to
submit to lawful authority r A Yes: but
there has beei. a grow ing feeling of unrest
among workingmen all over the land, and
when the Pinkertons, whom they know well,
camo tbey were provoked beyond endui
ance. Q. What do you mean by the restless feel
ing? A. Hie workingmen aie beginning to
think that their rights are being taken away
when these large concerns deny their em
ployes the right to orgauizi-, and this makes
them discontented. -Men in the lower paid
departments commence to think that they
don't get their proper proportion of the
Q. May not the men make a mistake about
the amount of the profits? A. Yes, I guess
thev do sometimes.
Q. Where a firm fails do the laboring men
ever come to their employers' assi-tance?
A. Tes. In the cae ol Oliver Bios, in this
city: and other cases have occuried else
where. The unrest is not with the unthink
ing and ignorant, but with the more intelli
All Men Very Much Alike.
Q. Do the native or foreign workmen
cause the most trouble? a. Well, I am not
prepared to say. The foreign and native
elements aro about equal in the Amalga
mated. It isn't the common laborer ho
makes trouble ever. You won't find English-speaking
men among the common labor
ers nowadays to any extent.
Q. Have you any remedy for troubles be
tw Vcn emplo era and employed? A. Yes. I
believe in aibitration compulsory arbitra
tion, binding employer and emp'oyed alike.
They must both De compelled to abide by
the arbitrator's decision. Working-men
generally are beginning to see that arbitra
tion ii some lorni Is the onl v remodv.
Q. Do you think that the National Govern
ment has the constitutional power to come
into a State and settle labor disputes? A.
Yes The Government ought to nrotect its
people: it should find ont what manufactur
er' pioflti are and tee to it-tliat the laborer
gets nl ralr share.
Q. Have you ever heard of workingmen
breaking their agreements, and resisting
the decision or aibltrators or their own
choice A. No. sir. I knoir the Amalga
mated ha- never done so. I know whut Is
refened to, but the employers In the coke
country wero responsible for what hap
pened theie, not the American workmen.
The Bight of Organized Labor.
Q. Would you claim the light of organized
labor to keep out men who came to take
their places, in case of a strike, peaceably or
forcibly? A. Not rorciblv; but they have the
right to persuade. At Homestead the men
thought the ictlnction In wages unjust, that
their right to organize was threatened, that
their little homes, some half paid for, were
In danger, and when a nang o! cutthroats
camo to take their Jobs they thought thev
hadarightto go down to the liver's bank
and resist They never intended to injnie
the Carnegie Woiks. The Adviorj Boa id
offered the Sheriff to supply doputies and
under heavy bonds.
Q. Did they not turn the Sheriff's deputies
ont or Homestead? A. You must remember
theie weie 700 or 800 foreigners and some
others who spoke English, but none or
whom properly understood what the depu
ties nein there for, and I believe they did es
cort them out of town. I realize that It was
an unfoitunate occurrence.
Examined by Senator Peffer. the witness
said that the employment of Pinkertons
was one of tb causes of workingmen's un
rest He explained what the search lights
in the Homestead mill yards were for. and
related the remarks of mill bosses and su
perintendents which led the men to believe
the firm was looking for trouble with its
A National Board of Arbltratl on.
Q. How would you suggest the board of
arbitration should be constituted? A I
think it should be appointed by the Na
tional Government, and have the power to
enforce its decisions upon all parties; upon
groat manuiacturing concerns by taking
away their charteislf they disobeyed. I
pieter an arbitration board appointed by
tho National Government to one appointed
by the State, because the former would be
less likely to be affected oy politics.
Mr. Weihe was asked by Senator Gal
linger to answer a few questions as to the
restriction of immigration. Mr. Weihe
said he thought the present contract labor
law was being evaded systematically by the
corporations and large employers to" the
prejudice of workingmen here. Exactly
how the evi.sion was compassed he did not
know, but he knew that whenever there
ww a strike agents in Jfew York and other
seaboard citks were always ready to supply
employers with foreign labor at lower wage
rates than Americans would work for. He
thought a more vigorous examination of
immigrants desirable, but wanted to be un
derstood as opposed only to the lower class
of immigrants, those who were assisted to
this country and had to be assisted after
they got here.
Q. Are the laboring meu discussing the
immigration question? A. Yes.
Q. Do you believe the party in power or
Congress would have the support of work
ing men It they restricted immigration? A.
The Views or an Old Banker.
Thomas Mellon, the banker, w as called. He
said he as 80 years ot age and had resided
in Pittsburg since 1S31 He gave a sketch
of his life to the committee. Senator Gal
Q. In disputes between workingmen and
employers, can they be settled lu court! A J
-I remember one case where anvjBMtction
was granted to restrain employesTvlm boy
cotting a firm. This was the case or Brace
Q. Was the injunction granted? A Event
Q. Tnen the course pursued by Brace
Bros, conld bare been followed by the Car
negie Company Instead of resorting to Pink
ertons? A. I think it would have applied.
It is hard to prove and hard to set an In
junction. It is much harder to obtain than
ir the way was more practical. There is
generally a great delay.
Q. Have you ever hail nny labor troubles
in connection with your mining Interests?
A Yes, we had at one time. The trouble
generally originates betw een organized and
non-union labor. The union labor is al
ways aggressive and tries to force the non
union to Join.
Q in tiie old days did you ever hear any
thing or Pinkertons in connection with
labor troubles? A No; but there were
always detectives and watchmen to guard
property in case or strikes.
Q. Do on think it necessary to employ
armed men in connection with labor ditfei
ences? A There is an urgent necessity for
such. It arises from our doiectivo laws and
Inefficient execution. If the laws woie clear,
explicit and eniorced thei e would be no oc
casion for armed men, but as the laws aro
in this State I don't see how men cau con
duct large enterprises without them.
Too Much Party Politics.
Q. Can you explain why In this enlight
ened Stato of Pennsylvania and in this the
close or the nineteenth centuiy tuch caie
lesslansas these exist? A. In my opinion
theie is too much patty politics for the good
of the people Piefermeiit for offlco depends
on scrvico to the party instead of fitness for
the po-iiion. For instance, we seldom havo
a Sheriff who can and will do his duty.
There is also too much delay in ordering out
the military, the Governor tearing ho might
offend some one.
Q. Do you mean to say that the Sheriff
deiers doing his duty through fear of politi
cal consequences? A. I do.
j. iv ouiu tne name suggestion appiy to
the Governoi? A Why, of course. The
master norkman goes to Harrlsburg and
says"Heie's so many thousand votes, and
we want so and so," and they generally got
Q. Then the same thing applies to the
Legislature? A. Certainly it does. They
spend too much time In looking alter polit
ical ends instead ot looking after the peo
ple's good. Our pi oent Governor I thought
during ills first term was all right, but now
I think otherwise. The growing evil of our
time Is class legislation.
Q. The attention or this committee as well
as that or the whole country bus been called
to tne neglect ot the Sheriff as to las failure
to secuie a posse cotnmitutus? A. I think
he could have secured one bad ho made an
Q. Do yon think the Sheriff and Carnegie
Company exhausted all their powers befoie
securing an armed body or l'inkei tons? A.
I think he did as ho regarded his powers,but
It was only in a perfunctory way.
Councilman Robertson's Strike Experience.
A C. Robertson, Select Councilman from
the Thirty-fifth ward, came next as a wit
ness. He said he had been a glassblower
for 20 years, after that u as elected to the
Legislature and then quit working for a
living. He is now practicing law. He
helped to organize the Knights ot Labor in
By Senator Gallinger Were you ever en
gaged in any strikes? A. Yes, I mannged
several. We alw ays instructed our men not
to go near tne works, i lien tne laws were
more rigid as to conspiiacy than tiieyare
now. The strikes weie all agulnst i educ
tion of wages and we never experienced any
Q. In those strikes did the question of ar
bitration or conciliation ever arise? A.
No; in those days they weie never thought
Q. What is your position now as to volun
taiy or compulsory aruitratiou? A. Volun
tary arbitration is a dead letter, and as to
compulsary aibitration I do not favor it,
from my observations of its workings in
England. The Pinkerton system, to my
mind, is the outcome of tho abolition of the
Coal and lion Police system ot this State. I
want to say thut, having served three teims
in tho Legislature, ir theie has been any
class legislation in this State it has been in
favor ot the corpoiate class and not of the
laboring class. The Legislatuie in 1S91
passed an act allotting the Carnegie Com
pany to tncreao its capital stock from
$3,0U) 000 to $25,000,000. It was not for them
in a ditect nay, hut they could come In
William Weihe was recalled by Senator
Peffer, who asked:
Q. What has been the general effect on
labor and labor interests by strikes? A In
some cases beneficial, in others not. It
brings the question oilaboroefoiegreatmen
andi gieat minds, and in ttmo the "working
people may get legislation in their favor.
John A. Potter, superintendent of the
Homestead plant when the trouble began
and now chief engineer ior the Carnegie
Company, was sworn. The testimony he
gave belore the Congressional Committee
was identified by htm. Senator Gallinger
Q. At what point did yon meet the Pinker
tons? A At Ashtabula, O.
Q. Why did you meet them there? A. Be
cause I wus authorized to do so.
Q. Did you take charge oi them? A No,
sir. They were in charge of their own peo
ple Until we arrived at Davis Island Dam,
nil ere Colonel Giay took chaige. He was a
representative oi the Sheriff.
Q. Are you clear iu your mind that the
employment of aimed men for private pur
poses is right? A I have no opinion to ex
press. Q Why? A I don't know why.
Q. If yon could have foreseen the result
would. ou have advised the employment of
the Pinkerton. A No, sir.
By Senator Pefler Do you regard tho in
terests of the Cat neios greater than the in
leiests of tho public? A. No, sir. The in
teiests of the public come first.
Q. Then why do j ou refuse to express an
opinion on the hiring Oi armed men? A I
don't waut to be quoted.
Q. Have you. as a rule, found the people of
Homestead peaceable? A. There am all
0. Is your declination to answer about the
employment or armed men because you are
a i raid to criminate yourself and others? A.
No, sir, it is not It is because I do not feel
competent to express an opinion.
From a Worker's Standpoint
David Lynch, a heater at the Homestead
mill, was the next witness. He stated that
he had worked in the Homestead mill for
11 years and was Chairman of the Police
Board of the Homestead Councils. The re
duction of wages affected him on the base
of the scale.
By Senator Gallinger Did the firm ever
go Into an explanation as to why the reduc
tion was necessary? A. Not that I ever heard
Q. Havo you had any experience with the
Pinkertons? A I helped escort them to
Q. Were they tieated very harshly? A. I
diun't consider it to. Our men who weie
guarding them suffeied as much fiom the
crowds as they did.
Q. Do you consider that It was outsiders
wuo did most of the mischiel? A. Yes, sir,
agieat paitof it.
Q What is tho general conduct of the
working people? A IV o only had three ar
rests in Hon. estead in six months pievious
to the tiuuble.
Q What's your opinion of the hiring of
armed men? A. It's a very poor way ot set
tling trouble ot this kind.
Q. Aie you in favor of arbitration? A I
am. The Amalgamated method Is a system
ot arbltra ion.
This was the last witness examined, and
the committee adjourne i to meet in New
York at 10 o'clock on Saturday morning.
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ity, fancy back, regular price
$1.25, at 98c
Ladies' Fine Cashmere Mittens, a
bargain at 2 5c, will be sold Friday
and Saturday at m 19c
Children's Black Wool Mi'ts, an ex
cellent article for school wear, reg
ular price 15c and 18c, at 10c
Misses' 4-button Kid Gloves, regu
lar price 35c, at 68c
Ladies' Seamless Balbriggan Hose, .
regular price 15c, at 10c
Ladies' Seamless Fast Black Cotton
Hose, regular price 18c, at I2c
Ladies' Fancy Cotton Hose, regular
made, regular price 25c, at 19c
Ladies' Onyx Black Cotton Hose,
guaranteed stainless, regular price
25c, at 20c
Ladies' Black Cotton Hose, guar
anteed Hermsdorf dye, high
spliced heels and double soles,
regular price 35c, at 22c
Ladies' Black Wool Hose, regular
pries 25 c, at 20c
Ladies' Black Rib Top Hose, all
wool, regu ar price 35c, at 25c
Ladies' Imported Black Cashmere
Hose, spliced ankles and feet, full
fashioned, our regular 50c qual
Men's Striped Merino Shirks, slightly
soiled and shopworn, for that rea
son reduced from 50c to
Men's Lightweight Camel's Hair
Undershirts, also slightly soiled,
also reduced from 50c to
Men's fine Camel's Hair Under
shirts, a broken line, therefore re
duced from $r to
300 dozen All-Wool Half Hose, in
cluding blacks, natural wool and
camel's hair, reduced for this occa
sion from 25c to
Men's Merino Half Hose, regular
price 22c, at
Two Cases of Natural Wool and
Camel's Hair Shirts and Drawers;
best value in the house; regular
price 75c, Friday and Saturday
Unlaundried Shirts, our regular 50c
goods, reduced to
Fancy Night Shirts, regular price
50 dozen stylish Neckwear, hereto
fore sold at 25c and 35c, Friday
and Saturday only
Gentlemen's Initial Handkerchiefs,
beautifully embroidered, regular
price 18c, at
100 dozen Colored Border Hem
stitched Handkerchiefs, beautiful
patterns, regular price I2jcand
Woven Border Handkerchiefs, war
ranted fast colors, regular price
One lot of Men's Cashmere Gloves,
broken sizes, former price 50c,
will all be sold at 35c a
Ladies' Jersey Rib Cotton Vests,
high neck and long sleeves, regu
lar 25c and 35c. at 18c
Ladies' Natural Gray Cotton Vests,
high neck and long sleeves, regu
lar price 35a at 22c
Ladies' Gray Cotton Vests, high
neck and long sleeves, extra qua
ity, regular price 45c, at 29c ,
Ladies' Pure Natural Wool Vests
and Pants, regular price 75c, and
cheap at that, for 62c
Ladies' Fine Wool Scarlet Vests
and Pants, regular price $1.25, 98c
Ladies' Camel's Hair Vests and
Pants, double thread, trimmed
seam, regular price $1.25, at ' 98c
Ladies' Natural Wool Mixed Vests
and Pants, double thread, trimmed
seam, regular price $1.25, at 98c
Ladies' Extra Fine Camel's Hair
Vests and Pants, regular price
Si. 50, at Si. 18
Ladies' Extra Quality Natural Wool
Vests and Pants, regular price
$1.50, at $1.18
Children's White Merino Vests and Pants,
ranging from 10c to 45c, according to
size; we have the above in three
weights, light, medium and heavy.
Children's Natural Wool Vests and Pants
and Drawers, ranging from 19c to 38c,
according to size.
Children's Scarlet Wool Vests, Pants
and Drawers, ranging from 25c to 75c,
according to size.
To-Morrow, Grand Opening of Holiday Goods, Dolls, Toys,
Games, Books, Etc. A Live Santa Glaus will be present, to welcome
the children, and to give each one a pretty little Christmas gift,
FLEISHMAN & CO.,
504, 506. and 508 Market St.
MAIL ORDERS PROMPTLY ATTENDED TO. ' "
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