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XtlcI xI MANNING, S. C., WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 30, 185NO14
CO0UNTY G 0 VE R N1 E NT.
THE CONVENTION DISCUSSES THAT
A Long and iuterestIng Deibate About the
Nunmber of counties-What the Conven
tion Did With the Article.
COLUmBI. S. C., Oct. 22.-Special:
The Constitutional Convention began
this week with the consideration of a
subject that has engaged much of the
public attention, and which, in the
convention itself, brought about one
of the most animated and interesting
debates of the session.
After rapidly disposing of prelimi
naries the convention, on motion of
Mr. Otts, took up the report on coun
ties and county government-the pa
per which bears this peculiar title:
"Report of G. D. Tillman, A. K.
Smoak, J. W. Kennedy, J. 0. A.
Moore, J. C. Otts and R. R. Stack
house, whoconstitute the half of what
was once the whole committe on coun
ties and county government, and who
have no chairman, no clerk, no pa
pers, no resolutions and no name by
which to designate their half of the
committee," was read as follows:
Sec. 1. The several counties of this
State are each declared a body politic
and corporate. Each county shall
constitute one election district.
Sec. 2. The boundaries of the sever
al counties shall remain as now estab
lished, except those of the county of
Edgefield, which shall undergo such
changes as are made necessary by the
formation of a new county from a
portion of Edgefield, to be known as
baluda, the boundaries of which are
set forth in a constitutional ordinance.
Sec. 3. The general assembly shall
have power at any time to organize
new counties, by changing the bound
aries of old ones, but no new counties
shall be hereafter formed of less area
than 400 square miles, nor shall any
existing counties be reduced to less ex
tent; provided, that no old county
shall be reduced to less than 10,000 in
habitants, as shown by the last State
or national census, nor be reduced to
less amount of taxable property than
$1,500,000 as shown by the last tax re
Sec. 4. Whenever 300 freeholders
within the area of a proposed new
county shall petition for organization
of a new county, the governor shall
order an election within a reasonable
time before the meeting of the next
session of the legislature, and if a ma
jority of the qualified electors voting
in each part of the county or counties
proposed to be dismembered and em
in the new county shall sepa
rately vote therefor, it shall be the
duty of the legislature to established
such new county at its next session;
but elections as herein provided shall
not be held in any proposed county
-4ener than once in four years.
Sec. 5. All counties formed ir ac
cordance wtth the above sections shall
assume an equitable portion of the
debts of the existing county or coun
ties from which its territory is taken.
Sec. 6. The legislature may provide
for the consolidation of two or more
existing counties if a majority of the
qualified electors of such counties vot
ng at an election held for that pur
pose shall vote separately therefor,but
such elections shall not be held often
er than once in four years in the same
Sec. 7. Each county shall elect a
sheriff, a clerk of the court and a cor
oner, whose respective terms of office
shall be four years, and whose duties
and powers shall be defined by law;
provided the sheriff shall not be eligi
ble to re-election until the expiration
ofu ur years.
8e. . A chaingang shall be estab
lished in every county in the State:
provided that this section shall not
prevent two or more counties from
consolidating their respective chain
Sec.9. Each of the several town
ships of this State, with namhes and
boundaries as now established by law,
shall constitute a body politic; but
this shall not prevent the legislature
from organizing other townships.
Sec. 10. The freehold voters of each
township shall elect at such times and
for such terms of office as may be pre
scribed by law, three discreet persons,
to be known as the board of township
directors, who shall have charg~e of
the township roads, bridges andY fer
ries, the public schools, appoint the
managers of all Federal, State, county
and township elections, shall register
all, qualified voters of the township
andi shall discharge such other duties
and receive such compensation for
their services as the legislature may
Sec. 11. The general assembly may
exempt any county from such town
ship system of government whenever
a majority of the freehold voters of
the county shall petition therefor.
Mr. Gary had moved to indefinitely
postpone it, when the. president an
nounced that Mr. Harrison's action in
adding his name thereto had made it
thelmajority report; therefore the
other report was the minority report
and must1 be considered first.
THE 3HNORITY REPORT.
Mr. Otts moved to indefinitely post
pone the minority report.
The article reported by the minority
read as follows:
Sec. 1. The legislature may from
time to time establish new counties in
the following manner:
Whenever one-third of the qualified
voters within the area of the proposed
new county shall petition the gover
nor for the creation of a new county
the governor shall order an election
within a reasonable time thereafter, by
the qualified voters within the pro
posed area, in which election they
shall vote yes or no upon the question
of creating said new county.
Sec. 2.1If a majority of tlie qualified
voters within the several sections pro
posed to be fortged into a new county
shall separately vote "ves" upon such
question then the legislature shall es
tablish such new county. Provided.
that an election upon such question
shall not be ordered upon the same
proposed new county oftener than once
in four years.
Sec. 3. No county hereaf ter formed
shall contain less than one hundred
and twenty-fourth part of the whole
number of the inhabitants of the State
nor shall it have less assessed taxable
property than two millions of dollars,
nor shall it contain less than 400
e. 4. No oud conmyt shall be r
duce-d to less area than 500 square
miles. to less assessed taxable property
than 2.000.0i0. nor to smaller popu
lation than 15,000o inhabiLanits
Sec. 5 No new Countv liie shall be
run nearer to an estatblisthed court
house than 10 miles. lrovided, that
this section shall not apply to court
houses located in counties not pro
posed to be dismembered.
Sec. 6. All new counties hereafter
formed shall bear a just apportion
ment of the valid indebtedness of the
old county or counties from which
they have been formed.
Mr. Gary took the floor and denied
that he and those with him were op
posed to smaller counties, as had been
rumored about, but they did not want
to see old counties destroyed. This is
a matter of deep concern to my peo
ple. An enlightened self-interest was
the basis of good government. He
wanted to tell them what the effect
would be. He proceeded to tell how
the proposed scheme to slice Abbeville
county would leave that county-in
the shape of a shoestring with the
court house at one end. Why destroy
Abbeville county? She had always re
sponded to the call of her State in war
and in peace. Is that an unreasonable
request? He was not for saying any
thing against new counties. Their re
port simply put on limitations to al
low new counties and there was noth
ing to protect old counties.
MNr. Otts was sorry that the friends
of the minority report had confined
their argument to only one section of
the State. They all knew that if
Greenwood and Honea Path counties
were formed, the county of McCor
mick would never be formed. He
went on to tell the effect of establish
ing Florence county wholly out of
Darlington. They try to tell you that
it co4S as much to run a small county
as a large one. This is not so. He
then gave the figures as to Abbeville
and siowed that Florence's levy had
been below Abbeville's. Florence had
increased her taxable property. The
main difference in the two reports was
that the boundary line should not run
within less than 10 miles of the court
house. The geographical centre of a
county was not the true centre. Look
at RicIland. The real centre was that
most convenient to all the people.
There had been no complaint against
Richland's county seat.
Mr. McGowan thought better results
would be obtained by taking up the
majority report first.
A POINT OF ORDER.
Mr. George D. Tillman said that ac
cording to all parliamentary rules the
minority report should be tabled and
then the majority report could be
amended by the minority.
The convention decided to take up
the minority report.
Sec. 1 was amended in a matter of
Governor Sheppard offered the fol
lowing as an amendment:
"Provided. That the new counties
shall not be created so as to increase
the number of counties above 50-15
beyond those now existing."
He urged that some limit was nec
Mr Brice of York opposed this pro
viso, but took the position tat the di
vision of an existing county should
depend upon all conditions- area,
population, wealth, etc.
Senator Tillmnan moved to insert G2
instead of 50, and spoke in favor of
Mr. Johnstone opposed any mere
numerical limit-though he thought
62 a good number. He wanted an
equilibrium between the different sec
tions of the State. He said with 50
ounties they could have 600 square
miles to thecounty. If they adopted
550 square miles as the area limitation
they would have 54 counties. If you
can take 500 you will have 60 coun
ties. 22 miles across and 11 miles from
the court house to the boundary. If
you have 450 square miles as the limit
of the area you will have 67 counties
If you have 400 square miles you will
hae 70 counties with the centre 10
miles from the boundary- They should
so arrange their schenme that, as the
State developed, no one section could
come forth and gobble up the control
of legislation in the interest of that
seetion. Now it is impossible to have
the size of the counties identically the
same, but they could protect the in
terests of the old counties in the gen
eral assembly. All interests could be
given a reasonable protection if they
adopted asaminimum limit 450 square
miles and 550 square miles as the max
im and as a matter of fact there would
b only 100 square miles at the out
side,and as a matter of fact this would
be scarely more than fifty in any case.
This would let you reach the same
figure practically as proposed by Sen
ator Tillman, not by an arbitrary fig
ure, but by reason and by a plan pre
serving an equality to the people of
all sections of the State. You might
go further and have the requirement
that the people of the county could not
have a new county except on certain
Mr. George D. Tillman was the next
speaker. It was a subject near to his
heart and he made a masterly speech,
commanding the closest attention of
the entire convention. He said he had
never risen feeling more unable to do
justice to a cause or to himself. If he
a not had this smaller county mat
ter at heart lie never would have been
a member of the convention. He told
why he had come and how his people
had insisted on sending him. He had
no aeto grind; no end to attain; he
was done with public office; he was
done with that forever. His public ca
reer was behind him. New lights were
rising in politics. Men were always
for the rising, not for the setting sun.
He was not conscious of any mental
decay, however. Therefore they could
understand that he was here advocat
ing this measure with the purest mo
tives. More good would come from
this measure than from the regulation
of the suffrage. They did not want to
let this settle itself. Thirty-four thous
and square miles was the accepted and
settled area of the State. If you limit
the new counties to 50, you will give
68 miles as the ai-ea, which is more
than the present Constitution allowed
a county to have. We have an aver
age area of something over 1.000
square miles. My friend says Georgia
had to put on a limit after she had 132
counties established. I challenge any
member on their floor to cite to me a
single instance where any county in
any State once formed has asked to be
consolidated with another. It was a
sinular- fact that for the lirst 00 years
aftr South Carolina was !irst settled,
we had but a single courthouse and
that was in Charleston. The p~eople
had to go down there to get justice ad
ministered. There were no railroads.
turs and lynch law in self-defense. It
was due to this fact that the ancestor
of Mr. Thomas Woodward, of Fair
field. was assassinated on the road.
The long travel to the courthouse, 30
miles away, was the trouble-the dan
ger in having large counties. That
should be fixed differently. Such
trips were expensive to the people.
The people must make laws to gov
ern themselves. They must do it
through representatives. Why not
elect every body by a vote of the State
if you are going to have these "big,
great" counties-60 or 70 miles across
-to elect them as now, is but little
better. If you want the people to get
the best men let those men be elected
by the people who reside in a small
territory in which all live, and all the
people know him. The representa
tives of a large county are not careful
of going against the will of their con
stituents like those of a small county.
He thought the New England people
were better and more wisely governed
than any people on this earth, and he
attributed it to their townsnip system
of government. It was a close con
stituency and representation. The
people knew the men. He might
enumerate many advantages of the
smaller counties. If it was desirable
to 'have large judicial districts, why
have but one? Is it right, wise, pro
per-is it liberty to have every man
to go to the expense of attending court
till all other people's cases are tried?
And, let me say, no other State but
South Carolina requires it. Just look
at the Cost to the people. Our coun
ties average nearly 1,000 square. He
bore no bitterness to the old city by
the sea. He did, however, during his
early manhood, because of her parish
system, which caused her to control
thinos pretty much her own way. He
had ?ed the the fight against and de
stroyed the system in the 1865 conven
South Carolina was originally set
tled on the coast and at one time had
only six counties-Beaufort, Colleton,
Charleston, Barnwell, Sumter and Or
angeburg, and had 26 senators out of
that body's members, and until the
close of war,and Charleston had ten of
them. The up-country then had more
than four times the population and
paid the bulk of the taxes. It seems
like poetic justice that the low-count
should experience a little of this equ -
ity now. There is not a large county
in the State that would be willing to
see one foot cut off of its territory, if
left to it. The greatest exhibition of
meanness he had ever seen was when
the question of reducing the area was
present to the people, the newest coun
ties voted against it. Indeed enlight
ened self-interest was the best, but
some people were so little and so mean
that they couldn't come up to that
standard, and so he would say that his
friend from Abbeville should work up
to that objective-enlightened-before
using it. (Laughter.)
Georgia's average county acreage
was 423 square miles; Tennessee was
427, with a provision pending to make
it 385; Kentucky's was 318; Virginia's
383; none of the counties in those
States wanted to consolidate with any
other county. They held on to their
counties, to use a vulgar expression,
"like death to a dead nigger." All
there is in it is to allow the people to
govern themselves. Give the people
a chance, in God's name-a chance
which they never have had before.
Therefore. he contended to allow
any section 'willing to erect its build
ings and pay its expensesto form itself
into a new county. He said the ma
jority report had~ thrown certain re
strictions around the methods of form
ing a new county. The other report
was fatally defective in all essential
particulars. He would; therefore
move to substitute the section of the
majority report on the subject for the
section of the minority report. The
parliamentary methods being employ
ed in this matter was new to him.
He was continuing his argument
when the hour for recess arrived.
At the night session Col. Tillman
concluded his speeh, emphasizing the
points he has alredy made.
Mr. W. C. McGowan then took the
floor and made an able speech. He
said he confessed to some interest in
the matter, as he was proud of and
loved old Abbeville, now menaced on
all sides by at least six new county
schemes, all wanting to take parts of
her territory. He said he did not think
Mr. Tillman's arguments were borne
out by the facts. There were now a
great many conditions which he pro
ceeded to speak of. He supposed his
venerable friend, for whom he had
the highest respect, but whom he be
lieved was flying off at a tangent now,
was as much interested in getting Mc
Cormick county as he was in having
Abbeville as she was.
Mr. George Tillman stated that he
lived 20 miles from the proposed seat
of McCormick county, and had a rail
road to get there, it was true, but he
had no interest in the county seat of
the prosposed county.
Mr. McGowan-But you are an earn
est advocate of it?
Mr. Tillman-No, sir.
Mr. McGown-Well, you are in
favor of it.
Mr. Tillman-I would vote for it.
There was further colloquy betwveen
Mr. McGowan and Mr. Talbert.
Mr. McGowan presented a letter
from Maj. Win. T. Gary. This letter
said: "The small counties of Georgia
have not been a benefit ;" that the ex
penses of goverenment had been in
creased; that the offices yielded but
oor pay; that good officers could not
He also read a letter from Maj.
Hammond of Atlanta, which was
along the same line.
Mr. McGowan then devoted himself
to the discussion of the ten mile limit
matter. He thought this limit was
just. They spoke of Columbia being
right on the bank of the Congree.
This was really the best argument on
his side. Suppose the limit was not
placed there, couldn't theline of a new
county be run up to Columbia's eas
tern boundary and make Richland
county a little strip. This ten mile
limit was in the original law of the
following State: Arkansas, Illinois,
Texas. ie wanted this limit to pro
tect his county scat, he was free to
Senator Tillman spoke earnestly in
favor of his amendment, Messrs. Mc
Gowan and George Johnstone spoke
on the other side.
The president then put the Tillman
amendment while Mr. McCalla was
velling out a motion to adjourn. It
as declared killed a division was de
Great confussion ensued, and while
it continued the unfavorable report of
the committee of having the president
of the convention appoint a successor
toth lnat 1Drn. Byrd wase adopted.
Then another division vote on the
new county matter was taken, result
ing in the proposed "62 limit" being
killed by a vote of 80 to "no further
The Convention then adjourned till
When the Covention met this morn
ing, there was no time lost in resum
ing the consideration of the matter
pending-the article on counties and
The first section which had been un
der consideration all of the previous
day was again called up.
Mr. Ira B. Jones renewed the mo
tion made by Mr. Talbert the night be
fore to table the minority and take up
the ma'ority report first.
Mr. . B. Gary said that this propo
sition was a serious matter; there were
matters in this report which should be
considered as they stood. To pass
Mr. Jones' motion would be to reverse
the action of the convention already
taken. It was merely a new scheme
to dispose of the minority report. He
moved to table Mr. Jones' motion.
This was carried by a vote of 63 to 52.
Mr. Prince then offered an amend
ment to strike out the word "qualified"
before the word"voters"and say "free
holder" instead. I move t ay this
amendment on the table By a vote of
63 to 56 the amendment was tabled.
Mr. Buist offered an amendment to
section 1 to strike out the word "legis
lature" on line 1 and insert "general
assembly." This was adopted.
Mr. Gage offered this amendment
which was adopted: Amend by add
ing of line 7 after the word "county"
the following words: "And at the
same election the question of a name
and a county seat for such county
shall be submitted to the electors."
Mr. John B. Jones offered to substi
tute section 4 of the majority report
for section 1 as amended.
This motion had beeu made out of
order by Mr. G. D. Tillman the night
Mr. B. R. Tillman moved to table,
but withdrew to allow Mr. G. D. Till
man to speak.
Mr. Tillman said he wanted make a
few remarks in reply to Mr. McGown's
speech last night. He gave some
strong statements in regard to the rea
son why the term "pauper" counties
had been applied to certain counties
in Kentucky, quite different from
what the convention had understood.
He merely rose, he said, to take the
sting out of his frined's "pauper coun
ty" argument. His young friend had
made statements that he should be
MR. OTTS ON ROSTATION.
Mr. Otts said, in this State ople
seldom "rotated," Edgefield, the old
monopolistic county, had dominated
the second district, and she had con
trolled the State offices for years.
Senator Tillman-Whv don't you
speak to the question?
Mr. Otts-The gentleman from
Edgefield does not always speak to the
question. He has set me the example.
Mr. Johnson of Sparntanburg op
posed the substitute. Mr. Burn sopke
in favor of a minimum area of 500
Mr. McGowan stated that he did not
do or say things that he was ashamed
of. He thouit his friend from Edge
field was unjustified in such a position.
Then he quoted what Governor Brown
f Georgia had said in the Constitu
tional convention which put a stop to
the formation of counties in Georgia:
"There is a considerable number of
ounties in this State now, I believe
about 137. There are a number of
tem that do not pay as much money
into the State treasury of the State as
hey draw out. They do not pay a
ollar of the public debt, nor the ex
enses of the government, nor even as
uch money as the government is
ompelled to pay out on their account.
This matter of making up counties has
one far enough."
There was a spat between Messrs. G.
D. Tillman and McGown, outof which
either seemed to make much. Mr.
Tilman said he would like to hear of
an two counties anywhere that ever
akdto be consolidated into one when
Mr. D. S. Henderson asked Senator
Tillman if there was any way by which
:ounties could consolidate.
Mr. Tillman--Yes, sir.
Mr. Tillman-In the Mississippi, in
he Georgia and other Constitutions,
nd I defy you to find an instance
where any county ever asked for a
Mr. Patterson then stated that this
onvention had expressed itself in this
atter pretty fully and he thought
this substitute should be tabled. There
was no use to put in this new matter.
They had already amended the section
The substitute offered by Mr. Jones
was then killed . O ~aUH
HOW IT GTT~CH
Section 1 was then adopted as a
whole in the following shape:
Section 1. The general asssembly
may, from time to time, establish new
ounties in the following manner:
Whenever one-third of the qualified
voters within the area each section of
n old county proposed to be cut off
to form a new county shall petition
the governor for the creation of a new
ounty, setting forth the boundaries
d having complied with the require
ments of this article, the governor
shall order an election, withmn a rea
sonable time thereafter, by the quali
fied voters within the proposed area,
in which election they shall vote
"yes"~ or "no" upon the question of
reating said new county, and at the
same election the question of a name
nd a couty seat for such county shall
be submitted to the electors.
Section 2 was then taken up, read
Sec. 2. If a majority of the qualified
vters within the several sections pro
posed to be formed into a new county
shall separatelv vote "yes" upon such
question then the legislature shall es
tablish such new county; provided.
that an election upon such question
shall not be ordered oftener than once
in four years.
Mr. McGowan offered to amend by
striking out the word "majority" in the
first line and inserting "two-thirds.''
He gave his reasons for this, saying
that he had found this provision in
nearly every Constitution.
Mr. Otts said it was undemocratic
ui lie moved to table, demanding the
roll call on this motion. It resulted as
follows, the convention refusing to
table: Yeas 58, nays 78.
Having refused to table Mr. Mc
Gowan's amendment, Mr. Otts moved
to substitute fcur-fifths, which was
The McGowan amendment was then
The Convention was very prompt
yesterday morning in taking hold of
the pending business-the article on
counties and county government.
The matter pending was Senator Till
man's amendment to make the taxa
ble property in any proposed new
county one and one-half million,
which was an amendment to Mr.
Prince's amendment to make it three
million, the committee's report recom
mending two million. This was the
matter under discussion the previous
Mr. Parler, favored this amendment
whilst Messrs. Howell and Behre op
posed it. There was quite a lively hit
between the former and Senator Till
Mr. Talbert said all these matters
should be left to the Legislature, with
due consideration for the will of the
people and their convenience.
Mr. Jeremiah Smith of Ho1ry fav
ored new counties, but thought
there should be limitations.
Mr. D. S. Henderson then called the
previous question on the amendment
of Senator Tillman.
Senator Tillman said he was willing
to let the matter come to a vote. He
did not care to have any more talk
Mr. Prince said that when he offer
ed his three million dollar amend
ment he did not know all that had
been brought out in the debate. He
wished to say that if Senator Tillman's
amendment vas tabled he would with
draw his and let the committee's re
commendation of two million stand.
Mr. Bellinger moved to table the
Tillman amendment. which was done
on a division vote of 74 to 67.
A CHANGE 01' HEART.
Senator Tillman insisted on having
the roll call on this matter, and it was
allowed, resulting in a vote directly
the opposite, the convention refusing
to table-thus by a vote of 76 nays to
The amendments offered by Senator
Tillman and Mr. Pzince were then
Mr. W. B. Wilson offered this
"Resolved, That when there is em
braced within the limit of the propos
ed new county a city having the pop
ulation of 5,000 inhabitants or more,
then such new county shall be formed
with an area of not less than 300
Mr. J. S. Brice moved to table.
Before this could be put, Mr. Rags
dale got the floor and stated that un
less something like this was done,
Rock Hill would become the county
seat of York county any way. It
would vote itself so in the course of
The amendment was tabled by a
vote of 81 to -"no further count de.
Mr. E. J. Kennedy moved to amend
by making the minimum territory 500
instead of 400 square miles. Lost
nays 92, yeas 53.
Mr. McWhite moved to make the
limit 450 square m:es. Lost-nays
74, yeas G9.
Mr. George Johnstone offered an
amendment to make it 550 square
miles, but withdrew it after some talk
had been indulged in.
Section 3 was then adoptcd as a
whole as follows:
SECTIoN 3. No new county bereaf ter
formed shall contain less than one
sixteenth part of the whole number of
the inhabitants of the State, nor shall
it have less assessed taxaole property
than one and one-ha.f millions of dol
lars as shown by the last tax return.
nor shall it contain less area than 400
Section 2 was ther. taken up in its
razy-quilt shape. Several amend
ments being forthcoming, it was found
that it was so patched up already that
it could not be straightened by amend
ment. Consequenil y the section was
passed over to be taken up at the
was then called up and read as fol
SECTIoN 1. No old county shall be
rduced to less area than 500 square
iles, to less taxable property than
2,000,000, nor to a smaller population
han 15,000 inhabitants.
Mr. Johnstone moved to amend so
s to make old counties certain to have
t least 550 square miles. He said
his was a safe figure and would pre
erve the status of these counties in
he house and senate.
Senator Tillmnan saidl that he did
ot want too much discrimination in
favor of old counties.
Mr. Prince moved tc table. This
reailed by a vote of 67 to 44.
The section was then adopted as it
Mr. Patterson tried to have section
5 passed over until S p. in., as it was
ate in the day and was a very impor
ant matter they were about to take
p. The convention declined to do
Mr. W. D. Evans stated that if the
entlemen desired to attend the circus,
e move that he be excused.
The president rushed this sugges
ion through as a motion, and the
auo-h was on Mr. Patterson.
T~ie section was then taken up read
SEc. 5. No new county lines shall
e run nearer to an estab'lished court
ouse than 10 miles: Provided that
his section shall not apply to court
ouses located in counties not propos
d to be dismembered.
Mr. Talbert moved to strike out the
Mr. Connor moved to add except
when such lines are natural barrier
Mr. McCalla spoke at some .length
n the subject of new counties in gen
ral. His opinions had been formed
rom experience. He knew a great
eal about Georgia. Adopt Georgia's
scheme and y ou will bring ruin and
expense on the State. He was at the
same time for the reduction of the
rea to 500 for old counties. Give the
ld counties ample and just protection
Ee wanted justice for every old coun
y seat in the State. What man
ould like to see his old county dis
antled. Don't leave it to the people
s they will tell you to do. There's
oo much self-interest ini the matter
or that, lie wanted them to consid
r this matter seriously, lie wanted
hem to take care of the old county
Mr. Patterson made some pleasant
eferences to the circus, and said there
ere doubtless a good miany there who
ould like to be excused now, a-s only
10 minutes more time remained, lie
herefore moved to take a recess till 8
Mr. Breazeal had this changed to
7:30 p. in., and the recess was taken.
In the afternoon a large number of
the delegates attended the circus.
TilE NIc;HT SESSTQN.
Slenator Tillman moved to strike out
the word "sections" at the end of the
first line and insert instead the words
"townships or parts of townships."
Mr. J. S. Brice then offered this pro
viso to go at the end of the section,
which was rejected: "Provided fur
ther that the general assembly may
alter or change the the lines of any
proposed county or may refuse to es
tablish the same."
Mr. Ira B. Jones offered an amend.
ment to strike out the word "voters"
in line 1 and insert "electors voting in
Mr. McGowan could not see where
ary good could come from such an
amendment. He moved to lay on the
table, but withdrew.
I he amenment was adopted.
Mr. McGowan then offered, amid
much opposition, to amend by insert
ing the words "and one-third of the
qualified voters in the remaining por
tion of the counties affected thereby,"
after the word "county" on line 2.
Mr. Johnstone moved to table, and
Mr. McGowan thereupon withdrew.
The section was then read as amend
ed for the information of the conven
Mr. Prince offered an amendment to
insert just before the proviso in the
section as reported, the following:
"Provided, the precedent provisions of
this article have been complied with."
This was adopted.
On the suggestion of Senator Till
man the section was passed over for
When section 3 was taken up, Mr. E.
J. Kennedy offered to amend by strik
ing out the words "one hundred and
twenty-fourth," and inserting "sixti
eth." The effect, he said. would be to
give at least two members in the
house and one in the senate for each
Mr. Patterson moved to lay the
amendment on the table, and on that
call for the ayes and nays. The vote
was: Yeas 88, nays 51. So the amend
ment was tabled.
Mr. W. B. Wilson then moved to
strike out the provision for the 400
square mile limit. He spoke in favor
of the motion. The amenment was,
on motion of Mr. Brice of York, tabled.
Senator Tillman, in referring to the
peculiar way the extremes on both
sides were fighting, working into one
another's hands, made use of the phrase
'-damnable combination"' likening it
to the unholy alliance of the barkeep
ers and the prohibitionists to fight the
Mr. Ira B. Jones-You are using
improper language here.
Tiilman-If I am tread.ing on any
body's toes all right; I am sorry.
Mr. Jones-You are not treading on
my toes; you are insulting this con
vention by talking of a combination.
After a few more remarks Senator
Tillman took his seat after explaining
Section 3 was then adopted.
Mr. Prince then offered to amend
section 4 by striking out "two" before
"million" in the second line and insert
ing instead "three."
Thesection as amended read:
Section 4. No -old county shall be
reduced to less area than 500 square
miles, to less taxable property than
two million dollars, nor to a smaller
population than 15,000 inhabitants.
This proposed three million dollars'
limitation was opposed by Senator
Tillman. He moved to substitute by
saying one and one-half millions.
With such a provision as had been
proposed the new county of Saluda
could never have been established.
Gen. Hemphill said that everybody
seeemed to have it all down wrong.
They talked as if all were in favor of
the small county idea, as if the salva
tion of the State depended on dividing
her up. He was opposed to any divis
ion. That this State was not in better
shape than Georgia, so far as taxes
was concerned, was a misstatement.
He cited Atlanta's condition. He did
not charge any man here with being
actuuated by any unjustmotive. They
were all there with the best motives
to adopt measures for the best inter
ests of the people. When the city of
Columbia advertises herself as a win
ter resort does she say she has a court
house. No she says she has a fine cli
mate, factories, good water, etc.
Mr. Patterson-A point of order.
The gentleman says Columbia has
good water. (Laughter.)
Gen. Hemphill was drinking a glass
of it when the interruption came and
seemed to like it.
Then he cited the advantages Abbe
vile would present- He cite also the
matter of the troubles to be encoun
tered by new counties. The taxable
property of Georgia had fallen off
$52,000,000. That was the argument
he presented. It was not necessary to
have new countiesi n order to prosper.
He was satisfied to let well enough
Mr. W. D. Evans moved ta postpone
the further consideration of this mat
ter till 10 o'clock this morning. This
was agreed to.
A MARK OF RSPECT.
Mr. Evans then offered the follow
ing resolutions which were unani
Whereas, a member of this conven
;ion, the Hon. R. F. Hodges, died at
his home in Bennettsville, S. C., at 5
o'cock this 22d day of October, 1895,
and whereas we as a body have learned
to value and appreciate his worth as a
man and a member; therefore be it
Resolved, first, That we can but
bow to the will of Him who doeth all
things well, yet it is hard to under
stand why one so full of vigor, both
of mind and body, in the prime of life,
should be so suddenly called from a
useful and honorable career.
Second. That in his death this con
vention has lost a useful member,
the State a valued citizen and the
county of Marlboro an able repre
sentative and faithful ollicial.
Third, That we will morun his de
parture, cherish his money and emu
late his virtues.
Fourth, That a page of the journal
of this convention be dedicated to his
Fifth) That a copy of these resolu
tions, suitably engrossed, be forwarded
by the secretary to his family..
As a further mark of respect to his
memory I now move that these resolu
tios oe made a special order for
Thursday next at 12 im, and that
this convention do now adjourn for
A CAUCUS P'RoPOSED.
Mr. Tal bert, as the president wvas
about to declare the body adjourned
for the day, asked that the announce
ment be nmade that there would be a
conference of the Democratic mem
bers of the convention in the hall at
COrMHI Octtnir 24.-Special:
at 7:30 p. m. the discussion came on
Mr. Connor's amendment to make the
limit 10 miles, unless it was a natural
barrier to business . I
Mr. Priitce offered the following,
"In the formation of new coun
ties no old county shall be cut within
10 miles of its county seat."
There was further debate on this mo
Mr. Connor, after having served as
county commissioner, had been thor
oughly convinced of the necessity of
smaller counties. The new system of
county government had not been suf
ficiently tested to make it plain wheth
er the difficulties in the old counties
had been overcome, and they should
go slow until that was understood.
The demand for smalleer counties was
not from the people, but from ambi
tious towns. lie favored a limit of
some kind, but was not particular
about its being 10 miles. If this new
county scheme goes through unre
stricted, there will be a race between
the low and up-country for the con
trol of the senate, and in 10 years the
senate chamber will have to be en
larged. He hoped his substitute
Mr. Bellinger would have to either
vote for the original section or for
Mr. Price's substitute for Mr. Connor's
substitute. He spoke 6f the difference
between "natural boundaries' as they
are considered in the different parts of
the State. In the low-country what is
called a branch would be a river in
the up-country.. There was a stream
flowing within two miles of Barnwell
court house only a foot or two wide,
but it would have to become a 'natu
ral boundary" if Mr. Connor's amend
ment passed. There were delegations
from 20 counties pledged not to dis
member their counties, while but a
half dozen might have come to cut
their counties up. He believed in
small counties, but was opposed to
ruining the old counties There were
in his immediate section Allendale,
Denmark, Branchville and another
wishing to become county seats and
cut slices from Barnwell, Hampton
and Colleton. Without this 10-mile
limit they would be ruined.
Senator Tillman opposed the ten
mile limit, and moved to recommit
the whole matter, and let the commit
tee try to adjust the differences agree
ing to disagree. Let them, be in
structed to simply fix the minimum
area for a county and leave the legis
lature to use its judgment in settling
A Member-Is not the gentleman
like the man who was down and said
he was whipped and then jumped up
when turned loose and went fighting
Mr. Tillhnan shouted something
about his being for the interes, of the
people. There was great con fusion,
three or four men shouting at once,
and a loud statement with violent
gesticulatory accompaniment, of Mr.
G. D. Tillman to his brother, was lost
in the turmoil.
Senator Tillman, after the presi
dent's rapping the body to order, con
tinued his remarks, closing by declar
ing that this convention seemed to
think that the people at home would
vote on this question like asses and
slaves instead of like freemen.
MR. GARY REPLIES.
Mr. Gary said that this was but
another of Senator Tillman's 1lank
movements, Senator Tillman was at
once on his feet again, and Mr. Otts
was up. Confusion reigned through
out the hall.
Mr. Tillman renewed his motion.
Mr. Patterson then got the floor and
said that he had waited for this fight
to come on the 10 mile limit matter.
His old county was vitally concerned
in this 10 mile limit matter. He was
afraid that his friend from Edgefield
felt that he was whipped, and now
wanted to recommit.
Senator Tillman said he was not
whipped, but the people would be whip
Mr. Patterson stated that he wanted
to:say a few words for Barnwell. He
and her people could not follow the
gentleman from Edgefield.
He was g'oing ahead, when Senator
Tillman ask~ed him if there was not a
distance of at least 30- miles between
every court house in this State.
Mr. Stokes made the point of order
that on a motion to recommit no
member could discuss the merits of
any other question than that peniding.
The chair sustained the point.
Mr. Patterson-But the chair in
The president stated that he had
done so.but when a member raised the
point he had to sustain it.
Mr.- Patterson went on to enumerate
the several schemes that were being
worked by Allendale and other sec-.
tions to make new counties. He only
asked that they be protected in their
old county rights. They had their
money invested there. If you ado pt
a 10 mile limit you will protect us. It
was nothing but right for the old
county men to defend their counties.
They now had a fine system of public
roads in their county, anil there was
really no need of a new county.
Mr. ID. S. Henderson simply wished
to know whether this body would stul
tify itself by recommitting the article.
If they were going to instruct a com
mittee, why not b~y all means settle
it on the floor like men. Quit this
useless waste of the people's time and
He moved to lay the motion of Sena
tor Tillman on the table.
Hie withdrew this, and a straight
vote was taken, resulting as follows
yeas 17, nays 124.
Mr . Cooper then moved to table Mr. 1
Prince's amendment. Lost-nays 70,
~Senator Irby, who had, it seemed,
stepued outside the door after the vote
found it closed on him, when the poll
was taken.- When he came in he de
manded to know by what rule the
president was authorized to close the
door against members during the tak
ing of a vote.
The president told him of the rule
goverring the taking of aye and nay
votes, but there was nothing clear on
the subject in the rule. After some
talk Senator Irby remarked: " Well,
I give notice that I will niot be barred I
out of this house by any one ."
Mr. George D. Tillman moved to I
ament. tme amendment by inserting ~
"7" for "10", and stated that lhe want- C
ed the roll call on this amendment.
Mr. Klugh moved to table.
Mr-. Tillmian wa~s still on the floor.
I e said: "I would like to know how
the sn:.art parliamentarian fromi Abbe- ~
ville is so anxious to put me off the
Mr. Klugh explained.
Mr-. Tillman said he accepted it; he
nderstood very thoroughly that it
as in accord with Abbeville's poicy
L oNTINUED ON PAGE FOURJ.j s
THE PEOPLE'S CARNIVAL.
THE COMING STATE FAIR WILL BE A
Secretary Holloway Expresses Great Satis
faction with the Outlook-The Entries
Already Coming In-New Features.
COLUMBIA, S. C., Oct. 26.-Special:
The active work of those in charge of
the arrangements or the coming fair
of the Stte Agricultural and Mechani
cal Cociety is sure to bear good fruit,
not only in finer and fuller exhibits
but in large crowds to see and enjoy
them. The purpose of the manage
ment to have a good fair is fully re
cognized by the people of South Caro
lina, and they are co-operating to an
extent which:is very gratifying. Con
ditions now are altogether dfferent
from those which so injuriously affect
ed the fair last year. The crops are
better-the spirits of the people are
better. The whole outlook, whether
for farmer or merchant or manufac
turer, is altogether brighter than it
has been in the past three years. This
the people are not only in better mood
to look a little after recreation and
pleasure, but they are more alive to
the benefits which attendance on the
fair must surely bring. They are com
ing to Columbia for the fair. The
low rate of one cent a mile for the
round trip makes, it very cheap, and
lots of people who have been con
straiied to stay at home for the past
year or two are coming along this
time. The schedules, too, will be so
arranged as to extend the best possible
opportunities to people all along the
lines. Accommodations in Columbia
will be better than ever.
A good sign just nowis the fact that
the entries are coming in very satisfac
torily. Col. Holloway, the secretary
of the Society, is altooether pleased
with the indications in thiis respect. In
the course of a talk with a representa
tive of the State newspaper, he said
that the entries are coming in well,
and in a few days the work of making
entries will be in full blast.
The first entries of consequence were
made by that veteran farmer and stock
raiser, Col. J. Wash Watts of Laurens
"What is the outtook as to the at
tendance of visitors?"
-The low rates offered by the rail
roads will induce a very large attend
ance, especially from several sections
of the State I have heard from."
"I notice the orounds and buildings
are to be open at night. What are
the reasons therefor?"
"Simply to allow the hundreds of
lerks and other employees of the city
an opportunity to attend the fair, and
to offer those who desire it an oppor
tunity to enjoy themselves dancig
ltc. The second story of the old build
ing will be given the young people to
enjoy themselves in this year. It is
Eoped those who engage in this inno
:ent diversion will see that suitable
rnusic is engaged for Tuesday Wednes
lay and Thursday evenings. I might
add that arrangements being made for
firstelass attractions for fair week."
There are those who thinks that the
Atlanta Exposition will hurt our fair.
From all that can be gathered on this
subject, there is little if any ground
ror any such apprehension. Many
people from South Carolina will of
:ourse attend the great exhibition in
the Gate City. But these same peple
will take in our fair as well. Tous
mnds of others, who have no idea of
going to Atlanta may be counted on
to come to Columbia during fair week.
A. large section of the State will be
fully represented at the fair, whose
people will scarcely be seen about At
There is ,something jolly-some
thmgo inspiring-about a big crowd of
people, all bents on the one object of
iaving a good time. The assurance
f a fine attendance on our fair will
pring numbers of people from all over
south Carolina. *
Not the beast of the attractions during
'air week is the theatre. For this time
nanager Eugene Cramer has arranged
i. fine selection of performances.
All in all, the promise of a good
air--good in every particular is strong
pr every day as the time for the open
The fair opens on the 11th Novem
LoNDoN, Oct. 24.--The Standard
will tomorrow publish a dispatch from
Donstantinople confirming the reports
>f the summary disposal of many of
he young Turkish party, who were
irrested on the charge of seditious prac
;ices. After trial they were conveyed
tt night to the beach and thence to a
arship. The boats of this warship
hen took the prisoners to the place in
~he Bosphorus where the current runs
.he strongest, and they were then
hropped overboard. The dispatch also
:onfirms the reports that the severe
neasures taken by the porte has broken
;he spirit of the revolutionists. Hassan
Pasha, the minister of marine, is
inder suspicion and he is kept under
~lose surveillance at his residence at
The Water Famine.
KixowooD, W. Va., Oct. 25.-The
WVest Virginia Northern railroad has
tbandonedall trains but one a day be
~ause water cannot be procud for
ocomotives. The water famine in this
ection of the State has become alarm
ng. In order to make one train a day
he railroad takes one of the locomo
ives twenty miles; east on the Balti
nore and Ohio to procure water. Wells
tre nearly all dry here and creeks and
prings have been dry for weeks.
Cheat and Monongahela rivers can
e waded by children at any point.
3oats cannot reach Morgantown, and
dll the city has is slack water.
AUUiEVILL.E, S. C., O.ct. 22.-The
use of the State against Tom Peterson
or the murder of~Constable Moseley,
~egan last Saturday and was conclud
d last night, the jury rendering a
erdict of "'guilty.'' The case was
otl contested by defendant's coun
el. 1'he speeches for thedefense by]D.
1. Magill anid Ellis G. Graydon, were
miong the ablest ever heard in this
EArT RADFORD, XA., Oct. 23.-A
ast through freight on the Norfolk
nd Western Railroad was wrecked by
herd of ecattle, three miles West of
falison at 3 o'clock this morning.
ngineer U'Neill, Fireman C. P.
4indamood and Front Brakeman Ed
fouseton, all of Bristol, Tenn., were
astantly killed. Conductor Lewis
loore anud t wo other brakemen were