Newspaper Page Text
18 A BOY IN BATTLE. 9 •jMf.SML-m. COLONEL FRED GRANT TELLS HOW ffl^MfSfc-^fe-M*^ K/KmmMi AT TWELVE HE WENT WITH HIS *^™*£?R-^? ***** FATHER TO THE BATTLEFIELD... ****** (Copyrighted, 1597, by Frank G. Carpenter.'* NEW YORK, Feb. 11.—Col. Fred Grant grows more and more like his father every day. He has, at forty-six, about the same features his father had at the close of the war. He has the same square face, the same blue eyes and the same quiet manner which were BO characteristic of our greatest gen eral. CoL Grant is just as unassuming ns his father was. Talking casually with him you would never imagine that his life had been one of thrilling ex periences; that he had been in five great battles before he was thirteen FREDERICK D. GRAXT. years of age; that he had done hard fighting with the Indians on our West ern frontiers; that he had been one of the honored guests with Gen. Grant on his tour around the world; that he had been United States minister to Austria, and that he was now one of the three commissioners of the greatest and most turbulent city on this hemi- j sphere. Col. Grant seldom speaks about himself or his father, and it was only by questioning that I was able to draw from him the reminiscences which I give today. GEN. GRANT'S BOYHOOD. During the chat I asked him what he thought of the matter that is now be ing published about. Gen. Grant. He replied that the most of it was unre liable. Said he: "A great part of the stories which are told are made up of talks with men who knew my father as a boy and who through lapse of time and memory deal in exaggerated state ments. To read those stories you would suppose that father's family was very poor and that they sometimes lacked Prehistoric Northern iWir>r)esota. -*3R rISSR,*SS:SIH: imperishable evidences of the ttMiIMMMI ;mmmmmmmm EARWEST settlements. ...... Him **•< From a mound on the Rainy Lake river near the mouth of the Little Fork, on the Minnesota side.there have been excavated 168 relics, remnants, or naments and implements, deposited by the earliest man or his immediate decendanta. Mr. U. M. Thomas has described, at some length, the manner of the ex cavation, Its results, and some refer ences concerning the remains deposit ed in the mound. The examination of the mound and {K^%Mr^i V —^c^j flwwk 1 K^?Hsw ?■ /- \r^whi\ i v/ff// , r 7%&zr W_£§§s^*-s JfrM 6®^ ii^*____^<-_^^^ PRMIISTORIC IMPLEMENTS AND relics from THE RAINY LAKE RIVER, NORTHERN MINNESOTA. EXPLANATORY NOTE. No. I—Flint Spearhead. No. 3—Perforated Bone Needle. No. 6—Leaf-shaped Implement of Flint. No. 2—Native Copper Knife, Sharpened to No. 4—Sandstone Pipe, Without Btem. No. 7—Knife of Chipped Hornestone an Edge at the Oval Extremity. No. s—Fishhook of Solid Copper. Each rello is reduced to one-half naturalsize, and they are selections from one hund-red and eighty-six specimens excavated from a mound in Itasca county, Minn. Its excavation were conducted by res sidents of the locality, without refer ence to any scientific mode of pro cedure, solely in search of whatever might remain of the original contents. It was reported at the time that the remains of a person some eight or nine feet ln height had. been found, but the skeleton* sentt tto St. Paul with the relics, and privMely examined by two interested gentlemen,'proved to be remains of an intrusive and recent ma- the necessities of life. This is not so. My grandfather was not rich for these times, but he was the richest man in his vicinity. It was not common then to send boys away to school. Still, father was sent to school at Maysville, Ky., where he had to pay his board. Another statement is that my father was a poor student. I do not believe this. I know my grandfather often asked me why I did not like my books better and study more like my father. Father stood well at West Point. He was not the highest, it is true, but he was by no means the lowest. That he j did not stand higher was due to the library. He had, you know, lived in I the country, where books are scarce. j When he got to West Point he found j a fine library there, and this he has j often told me was like a new world to I him. He was not graded upon his reading outside of his studies, but 1 venture that he received great good from it." WHY GRANT WANTED A THIRD. "Was your .father a very ambitious man, colonel?" "I think not," replied Col. Grant. "His only desire seemed to be to do what was before him." "How about politics? Did he not de sire a third term?". "No, I don't think so," was the re ply. "Father was willing 'to take a third term almost entirely on patriotic reasons. He believed he could be of great help to the American people. He had just returned, ycu know, from a trip around the world. He made that trip just at the close of his adminis tration, and he studied the rest of the terment, by Ojibway Indians, not more than thirty years since, and instead of being the remains of an individual of unusual proportions, was of a modern Indian not more than five feet and ten Inches in height, but of robust pro portions. Many people entertain an idea that men of giant stature formerly occupied the Mississippi basin, but the impres sion is erroneous. Scientific examina tions indicate results which substanti- te the accepted theory that no such giant race ever existed in this locality. The relics from Northern Minnesota are identifiable beyond question with the mound building period, and indi cate that the routes of exploration and discovery by prehistoric man in Min nesota undoubtedly extended up the Mississippi and ScrY-PsS-the divide from Winnibigoshish l&ftS tft'and down the Big Fork to the'RJaffry > lake region. It is also probable ■lrWti,rrSm Lake Supe rior they passed up the St. Louis and THE SAINT PAUI, GLOBE: SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1897 •world from the standpoint of a presi dent. I believe the United States would have been greatly benefited by him had he had another term. Had he been elected again he would have brought about diplomatic relations which would have brought us the bulk of the trade of the Orient. This would have meant an increase to us of more than one hundred million dollars a year. He would have made the United States the leading country of the world in the eyes of the far East, and we should have been looked upon as its protector and friend." AUTHOR OF RECIPROCITY. "Speaking- of our foreign trade. Col. Grant, had your father any ideas of re ciprocity as a means of increasing it?" "Yes," was the reply. "Gen. Grant was in fact the real author of recipro city as an American policy. While he was president It became advisable to decrease the revenues, and there was a movement in cong-ress to take the taxes off coffee and tea, which articles were then called 'the poor man's luxuries.' Father sent for James G. Blame, who was then in congress, and told him what afterward proved to be the fact, that if the United States took the tax off coffee Rrazil would add export duties equal to the amount taken off, and the people would have to pay the same for their coffee nevertheless. He advised Blame to make the reduction the basis of a riciprocity treaty, which should prevent such action by Brazil, and at the same time increase our trade. Mr. Blame liked the idea, but he said that the cry of 'the poor man's luxuries' had been made so prominent that he did not know that the mat ter could be arranged. He kept fath er's suggestion in mind, however, and from it. I believe, evolved the recipro city scheme which is now connected with his name." A BOY IN BATTLE The conversation here turned to Gen. Grant's war experiences. His father took him to the field with him when he was only twelve years of age. He was with Grant in batttle again and again throughout the war, and was close to him throughout the whole of the Vicks burg campaign. At this time he was wounded and he had many narrow es capes. I asked him how the general happened to allow him to come to him. He replied: "My father liked to have me with him. I suppose he wanted me to see something of the war. I was only twelve years of age, and was at school at Covington, Ky., in 1563. when he wrote me that I could join him in the field. I met him at Young's Point, where he was just before he attacked Vicksburg. I remember the first thing I did on my arrival was to visit the gunboat Benton with him. This was the flagship of Admiral Porter. I was shown over the gunboat while father talked to the admiral, and I have since understood that while I was absent father first suggested passing the bat teries of Vicksburg. It was this sug gestion that brought about the cam paign which was afterward carried out." "Were you on the boat when they ran the battery?" I asked. "Yes, I was with father. We had six gunboats and three transports. The gunboats were to engage the enemy while the transports got by. I remem ber there were bales of hay packed around the boilers in order to protect them. The night we started it was very dark. All of our lights were put out. We left about 10 o'clock. We had not gone far, however, before a rocket went up from the shore. Then a cannon ball flew across the river in front of our beats. A moment liaiter the flames burst out of a house at the little town of De Soto, opposite Vicksburg. Then another building was fired on the river front and roon there were fires burning all along the shore so that the river was almost as bright as day. Through this flaming pathway moved our six gunboats. I remember it seemed to me that they looked like great black tur tles. Behind us came the three trans ports, all floating directly toward the batteries of Vicksburg. As we went onwa-rd the guns on the hills opened their fire, the batteries sent broadside after broadside, and in less than ten minutes all of our boats were in the midst of the battle. You must remem ber I was only a boy of thirteen and the scene was a terrible one to me. Our beats were pouring out shot and shell Pigeon rivers, and up the Turtle river and across to the Red lake country. The Brower-Hill expedition to some of the localities, first_brought to light the fact that at least a portion of tne portages in Northern Minnesota, so extensively used by the Ojibway race were, beyond any question, prehistoric pathways from lake to lake and from river to river. The relics from the Northern wilder ness of the state, a portion of which are illustrated, numbered and describ ed, are to form the nucleus of a col- lection to be deposited for permanent preservation and exhibition in the new state capitol, with the Historical so ciety, to show the character of the earliest primitive industry in the Northwest. Recent explorations In the Upper Mississippi region, above Brainerd. in dicate that numerous localities there were formerly the permanent home o^ Mound Builders, long agtes prior to the advent of the Gros Ventres, who pre ceded the Sioux Indians- In that part of the state. ?n« at the enemy. As they did so the three transports passed by us, keeping close t> the Louisiana shore. Suddenly one of them stopped, I could see a flame shoot up from her side. She had been set on fire by a red-h«t shot from the Warren ton battery, aad she burned until she was entirely destroyed." "Where wereoyou at the time?" "I was on the hurricane deck of one of the gunboats. I stood by my fath er's side. I remember he was smoking at the time artd that I noticed an in tense light in his- eyes. We could sec; the people of Vicksburg on the shores. They covered the sides of the hills, and at every shot from the batteries they would cheer." STORY OF ADMIRAL PORTER. "Were you under fire again during the siege, coloftel?" I asked. "Yes," replied Col. Grant. "There was little timenduring the siege that I was not in mooe or less danger. I had several very narrow escapes. I remem ber being on a gunboat a little later on when we were near the batteries of Grand Gulf. I saw many men killed there. I remember seeing one man Jump on the parapet of the enemy's .......3 }w£t ma our guns were discharg ed at them. A shell exploded on the spot where he was standing, and it must have blown him to atoms. Dur ing this battle I was on a tugboat, with my father, and we were steaming in and out among- the gunboats during the firing. After a time we went on beard the Benton to see Admiral Por ter. The sight sickened me, The deck was covered with blood and pieces of flesh. Dead men, torn and lacerated, lay about everywhere, and some of the gunners, with still bleeding wounds, were standing by their cannons. Ad miral Porter had been struck by a piece of shell on the back of his head. As we came up I could see that he was in great agony. He was pale and he leaned upon his sword, using it as a cane, while my father talked to him. Father suggested that the gunboats should engage the enemy's batteries that night, in order that the transports might run past them in the midst of the bombardment. To this Admiral Porter agreed, and we started to leave, when the admiral turned to me and asked me if I did not want to remain with him during the next engagement. He said one of his best gunners had just been killed, and that I could have his place. I looked upon the wounded and dead about me and replied, tremb ling lest my father might contradict my statement, that I did not believe my papa would leave me there, even if I wainted to ctay. BOY'S FIRST LAND BATTLE. "I should think you would have been much frightened," said I. "I was," replied Col. Grant. "I was always frightened when I got under fire, but the excitement and interest was such that I could not keep out. I remember I slept that night on the gunboat Price, and when I awoke the next morning! found my father had gone. I knew there was a battle on the shore, for I could hear the firing, and I asked Gen. Lorenzo Thomas, who commanded the Price, to let me go to see the fight. He told me that my father had given orders that I was not to leave the boat. Shortly after this, while we were landing some troops, a rabbit jumped up and the soldiers tried to catch it. I asked Gen. Thomas if I could not help them. He said yes, but when I reached the soldiers the rabbit had disappeared. I concluded not to go back to the boat, but to run off to the battlefield. I ran in the direction of the firing. I got a lift upon one of the ammunition wag-ons. and soon came to ground where wounded men were lying about, and where there were dead men scat tered here and there. I saw a battery of artillery dashing off at a fork in the road, and I left the mule team and followed them. I soon got to a place where I could see the fight. While I was! looking I saw father coming. I was afraid he would send me back to the boat, so I got behind a tree and hid there until he had passed. As I watched I heard a great shout. Our lines had moved forward. I could see the enemy running, and a little later I was told that the battle was over, and that we had gained the day." SLEEPING ON THE BATTLEFIELD. "What did you do then?" I asked. "The first thing I did," replied Col. Grant, "was to try and find my father. It was al ready growling dark, and I was tired and hungry. I walked about trying to find some one who could tell me where my father was, and everywhere I went I saw dead and wounded men. The ground was everywhere bloody, and the air was filled with the moans of the wounded and the dying. There were surgeons hers and there amputating limbs, while the poor fellows upon whom they were operating were shrieking with pailn. It was all so terrible that I began to feel faint. I remember I lay down beside a tree and rest ed, feeling very sick. As I was lying theTe one of my father's orderlies came up. He recognized me, and I told h'.m all about my runaway trip from the. boat. He took his blanket from his horse and spread It out on the ground, and gave me his saddle for a pillow. I went to sleep almost as soon as my head touched the saddle, and slept for several hours. Then the orderly waked me and told me that my father had come. I raised myself up, and about fifty yards away, about a fire. I saw a group of officers, among whom was Gen. Grant. He was sit ting upon a camp fctool drinking from a tin cup filled with coffee, which the soldiers had just brought him. As I came up he seemed greatly surprised and said: " 'Why, Fred, I thought I left you safe on the boat?' " 'Yes, sir, you did,' I answered. " 'Well, then, how did you manage to get here?' "I told my story, and as I finished my father smiled and said: " 'Very well, you cannot get back now, I suppose,' and he thereupon went on with his conversation with the officers about him. A little later we went to an abandoned house about a half a mile away and there Gen. Grant stayed for the night. I remember 1 laid down on the floor among the men and slept soundly until mornf.ng," HOW IT FEELS TO BE SHOT. "I suppose your father sent you back to the boat the next day?" "No, he did not," replied Col. Grant. "From that time on until the end of the siege I remained with the soldiers. Much of the time I was wii'h father and much of the time with Gen. Logan. Often I was alone. I was in a number of skirmishes and battles and I saw war as It really ls." "It is a wonder to me that you were not wounded, colonel, during so much fighting." "I have been shot twice," replied Col. Grant. "My first wound I received .during the Vicksburg campaign, in a skirmish near the Black river. The Confederates had re treated to the river, and I, with a number of others, was running after them. I was on horseback, and when I got to the bank of the river I saw many of the rebels swimming I for the opposite shore. I stopped my horse and was watching these fellows when some one on the opposite side fired at me, hitting me on the thigh. My leg Is now paralyzed at that point." "How did It feel when the ball struck you?'* I asked. "The first sensation was that of a great blow, followed wsth a smarting pain, almost like that of a bee etlng. I thought 1 was killed and must *avle grown very pale, for Col. Lagow, whao came dashing up at that time, asked me what! was the matter. I told him I was killed. A statement which evi dently surprised *im}sfor he asked me where I was shot" "I replied, 'in the!leg,' and he thereupon asked me to see if Bfcould move my toes. I tried It and foun* that I could. Col. Lagow then told me that I twas not badly hurt. I afterwards foundJthat he was right. It was only a flesh wourid, though it has caused me a great deal of trouble since then. As it was I wrapped a cloth about my leg and kept in the saddle until the battle was over." "But did not yourofather pay some atten tion to you at such tunes?" "Not much," refclie* Col. Grant. "He could not. You see, he (had his hands full of other things." "How about ysur mother? I should think she would have sfcen terribly alarmed." "No, she was hot," was the reply. "She never knew of nry dangers until they were over, and she did not bother herself about things that were past." GBN. GRANT IN BATTLE. "How did Gen. Grant appear in battle?" 1 "Just the same as in peace," was the re ply. "He did not grow excited, and he seemed quiet and self-possessed when oth ers were troubled. I could usually tell how he felt by looking at his face. His blue eyes would often flash and his expression become determined. On the battlefield he would ride with his head frect to the points where the heaviest firing was going on. He seemed to see everything, and he took Into account the smartest and seemingly least importaat details. I was by his side at the battle of Champion Hill, when he gave Gen. Logan orders to storm the enemy's lines, which move resulted ln the capture of 3,000 pris oners and of all the Confederate artillery. After giving that order he turned and, almost in tho same breath, told one of his escorts to dismount and give a drink of water to a poor wounded soldier near by. During the siege of Vicksburg he seemed to work day and night. He was the first to get up in the morning, and the last to go to sleep. He was on horseback all day, and a large part of the nights were spent In writing out his orders, which were very long and full of the minutest details." "Did he talk much of his battles?" "No, not unless something came up which called for It. He was a very modest man. He was always careful of the feelings of others, and the request of a private soldier received as much attention from him a? that of an officer. Personally, he was loved by his soldiers, and I know It used to make me happy as a boy when I heard the cheers and hurrahs of enthusiasm go up from the soldiers as father passed along the lines." GRANT AS AN IDEAL MAN. I here asked Col. Grant to glvo me some idea of Gen. Grant as a man. He replied: "My father's character is almost a part of my religion. I revere It so much that I can hardly discuss It. He has ever been my ideal of all that Is true and good. I have a boy who is everything to me, and whom I want to bring up properly. I tell him that the most I can hope for him ls that he may be as good a man as his grandfather was. My father's character was what I believe a good Christian leader would consider the Ideal one. He was pure in thought and deed. He was careful of the feelings of others—so much so, in fact, that when he had to do something to hurt them I believe he felt more pained than the people whom he hurt." "I have heard stories in which Gen. Grant has been reported as using profane language. Are such stories true?" "No," replied Col. Grant. "My father has told me himself that he had never uttered an oath in his life. He did not use even the ordinary expletives, such as are common WHOLE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN HIMSELF. QUEER FREAK OF GEORGE A. WAiRREN, A MASSACHUSETTS JOURNALIST. HIS FIRE DEPARTMENT. HE IS THE CHIEF, THE CAPTAIN AND THE COMPANY, ALL IN ONE. HE ANSWERS EVERY ALARM. His Stable Is as Completely Fitted as That of Any Fire House. Special Correspondence of the Globe. BOSTON, Mass., Feb. 11.—Here is the fastest adjunct to a fire department in the country. Its record is absolutely clear of any reports for negligence or failure to obey orders. No personal feeling or private bick ering interfere with the efficiency of its work, and to say that its works as . a unit is a statement of absolute fact. The head of this "individual fire bri gade" as the inventor's friends call it, is eorge A. Warren, a newspaper man, whose home is in the Brighton district of Boston. It might also be added that Mr. Warren, in addition to being the chief is also the captain, entire company and board of commissioners of this unique department, which is complete in every respect; It is hardly justice to call this a one horse organization, yet in one way it is, for the trained horse which speeds the "individual company" to the blaze at the first stroke of the gong, is a feature and a very essential one of the equipment. There were two excellent reasons for the organization of this unique ad junct to the regular fire department of the city of Boston. In the first place, Mr. Warren has from his earliest boy hood been an enthusiast upon the sub ject of fires. Never was an alarm sounded but he responded among the first, and, as he grew olefer, he became more enthusi astic. if|«iat was possible. The $eeond reason was that in the course Of his work as a reporter for an outlying district of Boston, it was necesary for him to get to a fire at the earliest possible moment and se cure the details in the most thorough manner. For a time it was all well enough to trail along in the wake of the spark spouting engine, and arrive at the fire with the throng of ordinary curiosity seekers, but that means eventually proved too slow for good results frt>m a newspaper standpoint, and a short time ago he decided that some means must be devised of getting to fires a* quickly as the firemen themselves. The public does not know what tne newspaper reporter Is soon taught, that the laggard at a fire has a sorr> time of It getting information. To become a member of the city fire department was out of the question, but, not to be balked by such a trifling matter as that, he resolved to And a way of his own, and, with that end in view, set about a task that required brains and patience. His first work was to fit up his sta ble so that there should be as little delay as posible in getting his horse and wagon out and under way at the first alarm. Thlls was a comparatively easy task. To the shafts of a light democrat wag on a complete harness was fitted. The traces were fastened to the whiffle tree, the breeching straps made fast, and the shaft put through the leather stirrups of the saddle. The breast plate was fitted with a snap-catch and ring, as were both girths and the ends of the reins. Not a single buckle was used. Pirfleysk.were then fixed in the celling of the -stride through which passed cords which' held the harness and shafts inaixoeltion so that the whole ar rangement could be dropped down on among men. When he was a young man I heard him two or three times say 'thunder,' and once I remember hearing him say 'thun der and lightning.' But during the latter part of his life he did not use even such expressions. He never said anything that ap proached coarseness. He never told a vulgar story, nor would he listen to one If he could possibly help It. I remember that one time some gentlemen were chatting together, among them was my father. One of the men said: 'I know an excellent story, which, however. It would hardly be proper to tell before ladles.' Here my father stopped him and said: 'Well, if that is so, let us then say that It should not be told before gentle men.' My father would always leave a crowd rather than listen to Buch stories." GEN. GRANT'S PAPERS. "You aro your father's literary executor, colonel? How about his unpublished letters? Did he leave any?" "Yes." replied Col. Grant. "There arc quite a number. I have several boxes of his papers and letters, and when I have leisure I may perhaps edit some of them. Many of thorn have been loaned to John Russell Young, of Philadelphia, who ls now writing a life of Gen. Grant." "You helped your father ln the preparation of his book. I understand some parts of the first volume were written over and over aga'n?" ■'Yea; that ls true as to the matter re lating to Shiloh. This was prepared first for the Century Magazi:io, and father did not at the time know exactly what was wanted. He wrote the article first, and then R. U. Johnson, of the Century, talked it over with him. He asked many ciuestlons about things, and upon father's replying would say: 'Why, that is interesting. Why don't you put that in your article?' He made such suggestions again and again, and father added to and re wrote those articles over and over. This work showed him what the pecple wanted to know from him, and gave him the idea of a popular book. This was, in fact, his lit erary training for the work, and Mr. John son may be called his literary tutor. It was the Century articles which caused the book to be written." —Frank. G. Carpenter. to the horse and fastened ln place In a few seconds' time. An outfit of rubber boots and blank ets was procured, and is. always in place, together with a lantern, ln the body of the wagon, while a cord which hangs Just over the seat connects with the stable doors which swing inward, so that when once in the wagon and ready to start, a pull on the cord will cpen wide the doors and allow the "new apparatus" to get out and under way in regulation style. To procure an Intelligent horse which could be taughit to thoroughly under stand his work and coone from the sta ble to take his place between the shafts and under the harness at the first stroke of the alarm was not so easy, but, after a number of dlteapointments, Mr. Warren finally found one that proved very intelligent, and which he now uses. The horse soon became as much of a "fire fiend"as her owner and aftera few lessons would, as soon as the stall door was opened, take her place be tween the shafts and wait impatiently for her owner to fasten the harness. Fixed on the wall of the stable is a fire alarm indicator which on the first stroke of the alarm automatically registers the number of the box and the time at which the alarm was sent ln. This alarm Indicator ls also con nected with the door of the horse's stall and when the gong strikes, the stall is automatically opened, allowing Gcorjre A. Warren, otf Brighton, Mm ■■ Answerinjj an Alarm of lire, the horse to get out and place herself betwen the shafts. The most difficult task was to get a tapper or signal placed in the stable. Upon that point the Boston fire de partment is strict in every sense of the word. Several times Mr. Warren tried to get permission to have the much coveted tapper placed in connection with his stable, but was finally obliged to con tent himself with the indicator and the general alarm wire, but on his own responsibility he put a tapper in, con necting the house with the stable, so that when the alarm is sounded over the wires it. is transmitted from the house to the stable and the horse knows that there is fire work ahead. In the district in which Mr. Warren Urea there is no protective department and the work which he has been en abled to do la this respect, ls heartily appreciateel by the citizens in that portion of the city, who have had the misfortune to experience fires. Mr. Warren's speedy horse and queer wagon are a familiar sight to the cit izens e>f Brighton, and no matter at what hour of the day or night, if Mr. Warren and his black horse "Baby" are seen speeding through the streets to the accompaniment of the* gong it is a sure indication that there is a fire somewhere. Every fireman in the department knows the "one man fire department.'" He is a recognized authority upon all that relates to fires, how best to fight them, and the probable path they will follow, and he is rarely at fault in his estimate of the damage done. Moreover, as he is the only protec tive branch in his district, his work in that direction is often of great benefit to both the firemen and the victims of the blaze. That his work is appreciated Is shown by the numerous souvenirs and gifts which he has. iireeeived from the de partment, friends, and he boasts of haying, wltft gjer exception, the finest and most <^9&P»ete collection of pic tures perjbafnintf'to flree and firemen ln the city. LEXOltf IS fIEJtEWED LEGISLATIVE SEARCH LIGHT OXCE MORE TRAINED ON THE SUGAR TRUST. POOR HEAD FOR FIGURES. MOLLER UIXABLE TO REMEMBER; THE PRICE AT WHICH HE SOLD. SECRETARY OF NORTH RIVER CO, Check Given by the Trust in Fay. ment for Plant Paxaed Through His Huuuh. NEW YORK, Feb. 13.—The legisla tive joint committee on trusts resumed its meetings in this city today. Before taking up the thread of investigation where it was dropped on Monday an nouncement was made that William M. Ivins would be questioned as to the operations of the United States Rubber company. George R. McDougall and John E. Searles were both absent, al leging business as an excuse and were given till Monday to appear. George H. Moller. for several years a sugar refiner of Williamsburg, was the first witness examined today. As secretary of the North River Sugar Refining company he had received from John E. Searles the check for the sum for which that company sold out to the American Sugar Refining company. "What was the price paid?" asked Chairman Lexow. "I don't remember." "Was it a fair market price?" "We thought so. or we would not have made the transfer." Witness admitted that his company was competing with the Havemeyers. He did not remember that the price of sugar went up after the trust was formed. Mr. Moller was excused, and Mr. Lawson W. Fuller was called to place a value on the refining property. He said that he was in the sugar busi ness from 1850 to 1873, and was in the real estate business when the sugar trust was formed. Mr. Fuller knew very little about the value of the in dividual plants, and Mr. Lexow labored with him for a long time without ex tracting any information. Mr. Fuller finally said that in the five years after the trust was formed the price of sugar was raised .57 of a cent a pound. This, he declared, had cost the consumers $4,200,000 during that time. Mr. Fuller based his figures on a circular price list issued by Wellet & Gray, who, he said, were authorities. Edward J. Duggan, of Albany, a wholesale grocer, was the next witness. He had been in the sugar business for twenty years. He said that he was I what is known as a factor of the suarar trust. Before the trust was formed he could buy sugar anywhere, but after j the trust went into operation he re | fused to Join the Wholesale Grocers' association, and then he could not buy any sugar at all. "What reason was given for that?" "They said that I was cutting prices, and I was then forced to buy imported i sugar." "What was said to you?" ' "Robert S. Russel, of this city, told me that I must buy all my sugar from the American company." In answer to further questions. Mr. Duggan said that the trust had re fused to sell him any sugar and allow him the rebate, by which the profit could be made. "The trust," he said, "has forced me out of business, ami 1 am about to close out. The factor "Jnst for tlie Fun of It.*' gets a rebate of % of a cent a pound. A grocer cannot live unless he is a factor. He would be forced out of business. You must make an affidavit that you will sell the sugar at a cer tain rate, before you get the rebate. "One of* the articles in the factor's agreement reads:; 'None of the sugar shall be sold by you or disposed of by you for less than our dally quota tions with freight added from point to point, nor on more liberal terms as to credit or cash discount.' " Witness made his agreement in Oc tober, 1895, and, since he was thrown out, he has sold very little sugar. When a customer wanted a barrel of sugar, he went out and bought It from an other grocer. "Did you pay more for It than when you bought It from the American Su gar Refining company?" "Yes, because I could not get the rebate." Michael Callahan, a broker In im ported sugar, took the stand next. He would not admit that the trust had controlled the price of raw ma terial for the last three years. "Is not the American Sugar Refining company the only purchaser of the raw material ln this country?" "It Is only a large purchaser. The company cannot control the market." Witness said that he had sold the trust 30,000 tons of sugar, one-quarter of their purchases. He admitted that "some people were hurt by tbe way the trust manipulated the market last year," but added that "the trust was not responsible for that." Witness said that the brokers could personally spec ulate ln the future demands of the company, but it practically had dealer and broker ln their power all the time. Mr. Parr, another sugar broker, waa then called. He sells the trust about one-eighth of the raw material It pro duces. He said the trust did not fix the price In this country; that It waa fixed In Europe by free and fair com petition. Chairman Lexow said, owing to the absencfe'of? Mr^: Searles, the commit tee would, ad^qum until Monday at 10 a. m. He. added that he did not care to change the line of Investigation untH he had finished the sugar Inquiry.