Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel], April 02, 1921, Page 8, Image 8

About Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel] (Augusta, Me.) 1870-1975

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STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
(Continued from Page Five)
substitute the bill for the report of
the committee:
Mr. FOLSOM: Mr. President, and
gentlemen of the Senate, I do not
think I wish to Sake any time of this
Senate in discussing the merits of
this particular case. I just wish to
saiy this: That the committee on
Salaries and Fees, as you know, has>
had before it a great many matters
involving prospective increases in
the salaries of the larger part of the
heads of departments and other offi
cers throughout the State; that we
have spent a great deal of time upon
the consideration of these matters.
And that any report which we have
made has been made after careful
thought and consideration, and after
considering each case upon its merits.
And also With the view to equaliz
ing salaries of the various heads of
departments. In making our recom
mendation in this particular case we
felt that we were justified along the
lines under which we were consider
ing those matters.
I certainly should not feel that it
was proper for the salary of this par
ticular official to be raised from $4000
»to $4000. It would not be justice to
other heads of departments, from my I
view of tty? situation, and I trust that i
the motion of the Senator from Pis- ■
cataquis, Senator Sprague, will not
prevail.
Mr. SPRAGUR: Mr. President, If i
in order I wish to offer an amend
ment at this time, an amendment to
this bill.
The PRESIDENT: The bill has
not yet been substituted. The Chair :
will suggest that an amendment be <
pared and offered. Will the senator
prepare his motion in writing?
Mr. FOLSOM: Mr. President, 1
may I rise to a point of order?
The PRESIDENT: State your
point of order.
Mr. FOLSOM: As I understand
the question before the Senate it is a
substitution of the bill for the re
port. It seems to me that question
has precedence.
The PRESIDENT: If the bill is
substituted for the report then the
bill will be in order.
Mr. MORRILL: Mr. President, is
thid question debatable?
The PRESIDENT: The substitu
tion of the bill for the report is de
batable.
Mr. MORRILL: Mr. President
and fellow senators, I know it has
been considered at times to give
heed to and accept the reports of the
committees, but you will all recall
that at the commencement of this
session this question of salaries came
up and was a prominent question.
I was opposed to the increase of any
salaries this year, .but you know the
history of this thing as it has gone
along. I think it is well for us, as
we opened the door to the increase
of salaries, to he fair in this matter
that is before us at. this time. I no
tice that the judges’ salaries were in
creased a thousand dollars, and the
commissioner of argiculture was in
creased a thousand dollars.. If I
get it wrong you can correct me. The
State auditor was increased one
thousand dollars, and the librarian
seven hundred dollars. The Sta e
treasurer is on the road an in
crease in his salaty that I admit I
do not know how much.
iron (2f>a
ia salaries. They are before us and
even on the table atthis time. Now
Is this fair to the man who occupies
the position that the fish and game
commissioner does? It has been sa
at times that the commissioner did
not put in all his time, but if he does
his duty he has to put 'in his time
and more, and look the whole State
over. His department is one of the im
portant departments. The man who
occupies that position now is a man of
education and influence in his own com
munity and all over the State of
Maine, a man who has occupied high
positions and always fills the bill. This
man now takes the place of three com
missioners; we formerly had three
commissioners and it was made over
into a one-man commission. There
fore there is a chance for him to do
all the work that he wants to, and
there is no man in this room who does
not know that. And to turn him down
after these other bills have passed,
even if it is a unanimous report of the
committee, 1 do not call it fair play.
ii you think the amount called for
here is too much, as compared with
some of the other State otficials who
have had their salaries raised, it would
be fair to give an opportunity for an
amendment to he offered. I appeal to
■you senators if my talk in this line
does not appeal to your fairness. I
will say no more about It.
Mr. SPRAGUE; Mr. President. I
would like to have the senators realize
just what I do. Here is a man who
is at the bead of one of the most im
portant offices in the State of Maine.
It is not an office based upon any
sentiment. It is a hard-headed busi
ness proposition, if the- State of
Maine has got one at all. It is well
settled, and has been wfthin a few
years, within a year or two, by relia
ble statistics that the summer resort
business brings in the State of Maine
J25.000.000 at least, each year.
Now it goes without saying, we
know, that the fish and game, the
wild life, that comes under the direc
tion and control or the preservation
of the wild life that comes under the
control of this department is one of
the greatest assets that the State of
Maine has today. One of the great
est assets, looking at it purely rom
the practical business point of view,
having no sentiment in the matter
whatever.
I know of my own personal knowl
edge, because I live near the present
incumbent of this office, I know th°t
he is not what he is termed hero one
of the full-time officials, but he is an
overtime official, and in order to mike
that department successful it s ne
cessary to do just exactly as Leroy
T. Carleton did all the time he was in,
when he built up this department,
laid the foundation for it, he always
did what we call field work. He went
all through the game regions of this
State, was just as familiar with them
as yon are with your own city, and
in that way he made the beginning
of this great successful department
that is bringing in so much revenue
to the people of Maine.
(Additional debate will be found in
die Legislative record.)
HOUSE
Friday, April 1, 1921.
The House met according to ad
journment and was called to order by
the Speaker.
Prayer by the Rev. Mr. Phalen of
i
Journal of previous session read
and approved.
From the Senate: Bill, An Act to
amend the charter of the city of
Lewiston and to provide for city
auditor. This was passed to be en
grossed in the House as amended
by House amendment A, March 25,
which action the House voted to ad
here to on March 30.
Comes from the Senate that body
insisting on its action in non-con
curring in the adoption of House
amendment A, and asking for a com
mittee of conference, with the con
ferees appointed on its part: Sena
tors Parent of Androscoggin, Clark
of Lincoln, and Eaton of Oxford.
Mr. LARRABEE of Lewiston: Mr.
Speaker, 1 move that we adhere to
our former action.
The SPEAKER: The situation
relative to this bill, as the House will
remember, is that in the House,
House Amendment A, a referendum
to the electorate of Lewiston, was
voted. In the Senate that body re
fused to concur with the House, and
asked for a committee of conference,
and the gentleman from Lewiston,
Mr. Larrabee, makes the motion that
the House adhere to its former ac
tion. That ^yyjpn has already been
taken. In theTSouse March 25, this
bill was passed to be engrossed as
amended by House amendment A. In
the Senate on March 30, it was taken
frqm the table and the Senate re
jected House amendment A in non
concurrence. In the House, on March
30, we did vote to adhere. In the
Senate March 31, that body voted to
insist on its former action and asked
that a committee of conference be
appointed; and the only action, as
the Chair understands it, that can be
taken this morning would arise on a
motion to join in the committee of
conference.
Mr. HINCKLEY of So. Portland:
Mr. Speaker, I move that we join,
and that a committee of conference
be appointed.
'The motion prevailed, and the
Chair appointed as conferees on the
part .of the House Messrs. Larrabee
of Lewiston, Barwise of Bangor, and
Wilson of Presque Isle.
From the Senate: Bill, An Act to
abolish the Board of Public Works
of the city of Lewiston, and to pro
vide for a highway commission. This
was passed to be engrossed Tts
amended by House Amendment A in
the House March 25. In the Senate
that body refused to adopt House
Amendment A in concurrence. In
the House thcreafterward a motion
was made and carried to adhere. In
the Senate on the following day a re
quest for a conference was reported
to the House, the Senate appointing
Senators Parent, Clark and Eaton as
conferees.
Mr. HINCKLEY of So. Portland:
Mr. Speaker, I move that we join in
the conference.
The motion prevailed, and the
Chair appointed as conferees on the
part of the House, Messrs. Larrabee
of Lewiston, Barwise of Bangor and
Wilson of Presque Isle.
The SPEAKER: In the absence of
the gentleman from Lewiston, Mr.
Morneau, who tabled the other Sen
ate paper relating to Lewiston mat
ters, which is in exactly the same
situation, as the last two acted upon,
if anyone should move now to take it
up out of order—
Mr. HINCKLEY of So. Portland:
I move, Mr. Speaker, that it be taken
up at this time, and I move that we
join in the committee of conference.
The SPEAKER: In the absence of
the gentleman from Lewiston, Mr,
Mornean, who tabled it, does the
gentleman from So. Portland (Air.
Hinckley) insist on that?
Mr. HINCKLEY: No. I will be glad
to leave it until he arrives.
Reports of Committees
Mr. Fagan from the committee on
legal affairs reported ‘'Ought not to
pass” on Bill, ‘‘An Act to amend Sec
tion 8. of Chapter 5 of the Revised
Statutes relating to powers of boards
of registration.”
The report was accepted and sent
up for concurrence.
Mr. Weeks from same committee
reported same on fflesolve proposing
an amendment to the Constitution of
the State of Maine so as to allow
towns and cities to adopt or amend
their charters.
(On motion by Mr. Warren of
Portland, tabled pending acceptance
of report.)
Mr. Willard from same commit
tee reported same on Bill, ‘‘An Act
relative to the registration of per
sons, firms and corporations design
ing to install wires or apparatus for
electric light, heat or power pur
poses.”
The report was read and accepted
and sent up for concurrence.
Mr. Brewster from the Cumberland
County Delegation reported ought to
pass on Bill An Aet to authorize the
county commissioners of Cumberland
county to issue bonds of said county
for the purpose of refunding bond*; is
sued for the erection of a county
building in Portland under the pro
visions of Chapter 213 of the Private
and Special Laws of 1903 and Acts
amendatory thereof.
(On motion by Mr. Rounds of Port
land, the rules were suspended and the
bill given its three sever.nl readings,
and passed to be engrossed).
Mr. Cordwell from the committee on
education on Memorial to Congress
urging favorable consideration of the
principles embodied in the Smith
Towner bill, reported same in a new
draft under same title and that it
ought to pass.
Mr. Varney from same committee on
| Bill An Act to establish the State
I School Fund and to provide for appor
tionment of the same reported same in
a new draft under same title and thalt
it ought to pass.
The reports Were accepted and the
bills ordered printed under joint
rules.
Mr. Fagan from the committee on
legal affairs reported ought to pass on
Bill An Act authorizing married wo
men and widows to use family name as
part of name by which they shall be
registered as voters.
(On motion by Mr. Warren of Port
land, the rules were suspended, and the
bill received its two several readings;
on motion by Mr. Farnsworth of Cari
bou, the rules were suspended and the
bill given its third reading and passed
to be engrossed).
Mr. Murray from the committee of
legal affairs, on Bill, An Act to
amend Paragraph 7 of Section 98 of
Chapter 4 of the Revised Statutes, re
lating -to gasolene tanks placed with
in the limits of highways, reports the
same in a new draft under title of
“An Act to amend Paragraph 7 of Sec
tion 98 of Chapter 4 of the Revised
Statutes, ns amended by Section 2 of
Chapter 68-of the Public Laws of 1917,
relating to gasolene tanks and pumps
placed within the limits of highways,"
and that it ought to pass.
The report was read and accepted.
(On motion by Mr. Rounds of Port
land. the bi/les were suspended, and
the bill given its first and second
I readings).
On motion by Mr. Poore of Casco,
the bill was tabled pending third read
ing.
Orders of the Day
Mr. VARNEY of Jonesboro: Mr.
Speaker, may I inquire if it would be
in order at this time to make a motion
that the rules be suspended and that
House Document No. 216, providing for
the State School Fund, and also for its
apportionment have its three several
readings, and be passed to be en
grossed?
The SPEAKER: The gentleman
from, Jonesboro, Mr. Varney, will
state to the Chair for the information
of the members whether the new draft
is greatly in divergence with the
phraseology of the bill as printed.
Mr. VAltNEY: It is not, Mr. Speak
er. It simply provides for a reduction
of the equalization fund from $150,000
to $100,000, and makes further appro
priation of three dollars per pupil on
the basis of the school census. As I
j understand it is satisfactory to the
i opponents of the measure, and also to
the members of the committee.
Mr. SPEAKER: The gentleman
from Jonesboro, Mr. Varney, informs
the House that the new draft of the
distribution of school funds bill so
called is in form satisfactory to the
opponents of the original draft, and
| that gentleman moves that the rules
be suspended—
Mr. MURRAY of Portland: Mr.
Speaker, I move that that matter be
tabled.
The SPEAKER: The situation is
such that if there is no interference,
the bill will be printed under the joint
rules. If the gentleman from Port
land, Mr. Murray, insists upon his mo
tion, the Chair will of course put it.
Mr. ROUNDS of Portland: As I
understand, it will be printed any
way.
The SPEAKER: In its present sit
uation, it will come to our desks as a
printed bill very shortly. If the gen
tleman from Jonesboro, Mr. Varney’s
; motion should carry, it would be en
grossed.
Mr. ROUNDS: Before it was en
i acted, the bill would be printed,
| wouldn’t it?
The SPEAKER: It will be if it is
j left as it Is. The gentleman from
Jonesboro (Mr. Varney) moves that
the rules be suspended and that the
bill now be given its three several
readings, and does the gentleman
from Portland (Mr. Murray) make
this motion to table?
Mr. MURRAY: Mr. Speaker, I do not
want the bill to receive passage until
such time as we can examine It; and
if the purpose is that ’ it be passed
ilong over its third reading and then
be passed to be engrossed, I would in
sist on my motion.
Mr. VARNEY: Mr. Speaker, I be
lieve that the situation in regard to
this matter is such—
The SPEAKER: The Chair must
rule that on the question to table, ex
cept in very extreme cases, there is no
! varying from the strict rule that the
jo uimcucuauie. i ne gentio
man from Portland, Mr. Murray, moves
that the matter lie on the table. Those
in favor will say aye, contrary mind
ed, no.
A viva voce vote being taken, the
motion to table was lost.
The SPEAKER: The gentleman
from Jonesboro, Air. Varney, moves
that the rules be suspended and that
the bill be given its three several
readings under suspension of the
rules. This ean only be done by af
firmative of two-thirds of the mem
bers present. Ail those in favor of a
suspension of the rules will rise and
stand until they are counted, and the
i monitors will return the count.,
j A division being had, 92 having
; voted, 24 in the negative and 68 in the
I affirmative, the motion of the gen
I tleman from Jonesboro, Air. Varney,
j pi cvailcd, and the bill then received
its first ami second readings..
Air. VARNEY. I move that the
rules be further suspended and that
i the bill be given its third reading at
j 'this time.
! Air. BRAGDON of Perham: Air.
; Speaker, while I have looked over
this bill and ,it is—
Hie SPEAKER: The gentleman
will make a motion.
Air. BRAGDON: I understood
there was a motion made to give it its
third reading.
The SPEAKER: And you are
speaking to that question?
Air. BRAGDON: Yes.
The SPEAKER: The gentleman
will proceed.
Air. BRAGDON: While I have ex
, a mined this bill, and am satisfied
] with it myself, I feel that there are
| members of this Legislature who have
I not had the privilege of examining it,
; antl I consider it a dangerous prece
dent to establish so late in the ses
sion to t,ush so important a matter
along so fast without printing; and
I will move at this time that the bill
lie on the table for printing.
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
state to the gentleman from Perham,
Air. Bragdon, that he was not pro
ceeding in order. The motion to give
this bill its third reading had been
announced to be carried, and the gen
tleman from Perham. Air. Bragdon.
might have doubted the decision of
the Chair and called for a division. I
Air. BRAGDON: I will apologize,
Air. Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Not at all. The
gentleman now’ moved that pending
its passage to be engrossed, it be laid i
I upon the table. All those in favor of
laying the bill on the table will say
aye, contrary minded, no.
A viva voce vote was doubted by
the Chair.
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
state that the bill is a long one. To
some it might appear to be a very
laudable purpose to get it to the
printer as soon as possible. Those
who were in the hall when the mat- ’
ter came up heard 'the statement of
the gentleman from Jonesboro. Air.
Varney, that the new draft differed
from the original draft in only two
particulars. He stated what they
were and said that opposition to the
bill so far as he knew had been with
drawn. All those who are in favor of ]
tabling the measure at this time will i
rise and stand until they are counted.
A division being had, and a suffi
cient number not arising, the motion
to table was lost.
The SPEAKER: This bill having
had its three several readings is it 1
i the pleasure of the House that it be
, now passed to be engrossed?
j Mr CRABTREE of Island Falls:
Air. Speaker, while I am in favor of
' the bill, I did not understand that It
had had its third reading. I agree
with Mr. Bragdon that in fairness to
all .concerned, it should lie on the
table after the third reading, pend
ing passage to be engrossed.
Mr. MURCHIE of Calais: Mr.
Speaker, I would like to inquire of the
Chair whether tabling the bill will do
any good so far as printing is con
cerned, unless it is ordered to be
printed.
Tlie SPEAKER: This bill will be
printed now only on—
Mr MURCHIE: I would like to ask j
consent to introduce an order out of i
order.
^ Consent being given Mr. Murchie of
Calais presented the following order,
and moved its passage:
Ordered, that 500 copies of House
Document No. 216 in new draft be ’
printed for the use of the Legislature.
A viva voce vote being taken on i
the adoption of the order, the same
received passage; and on further mo- i
tion by the gentleman from Calais, I
Mr. Murchie, the bill pending printing I
was tabled.
On motion by Mr. Buzzell of Bel
fast it was voted to receive out of j
order for enactment Resolve in favor ;
of Frank S. Wingate for material
furnished for the construction of the
Central School Building for the
Maine State School for Girls.
The resolve was then finally passed.
The SPEAKER: At this time the
Chair will present out of order some
House reports.
Mr. Mason from the committee on j
Legal Affairs reports “ought not to j
pass" on bill, an act relative to the ;
licensing of steam engineers and fire
men.
Same gentleman from same com
mittee reports same on bill, an act
relative to filing of interrogatories
in civil action.
Same gentleman from same commit- 1
tee reports same on bill,* an act to 1
provide for the licensing, inspection
and regulation of lodging houses and j
for the registration of true names.
Same gentueman from same com
mittee reports same on bill, an act
relating to lewdness, prostitution and
assignation.
The reports were accepted and
sent up for concurrence.
Mr. Mason from the committee on
Legal Affairs reports “ought to pass"
relating to the election of State Au- j
ditor.
.°n motion by Mr. Wadsworth of
Winthrop, the rules were suspended
and the bill was given its three sev
eral readings and passed to b-> en
grossed.
On motion by Mr. Cram of Port
land. the action of the House was
reconsidered whereby the report
ought not to pass" on bill an act to
provide for the licensing, inspection
and regulation of lodging houses and
for the registration of true names,
was accepted; and on further motion
by the same gentleman the matter
was tabled, pending acceptance of the
report.
The Chair presents remonstrance of
George J\ Osgood of Hiram and 28
others against passage of bill relat
ing to the sale of liquors, and on mo
tion by Mr. Eastmen of Fryeburg the
remonstrance was referred to the
committee on Temperance.
On motion by Mr. Rounds of Port
land, the House voted to reconsider
its action at the last session whereby
it atcepted the committee report,
ought not to pass, on bill, an act lim
iting the salaries and fees of certain
city and town officials, and that gen
tleman offers House amendment A
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
state the situation before the gentle
man speaks to the question. The re
port was an adverse report and the
House is now in the siune situation
as though no action had been taken
upon the matter. The gentleman
from Portland (Mr. Rounds) will
move that the bill be substituted for
the report, and affirmative action
thereon will have to be taken before
any other disposition, as the Chair
understands the situation. The
( hair will state further that the gen
tleman from Portland proposes to
oiter an amendment. The Chair
recognizes the gentleman from Port
land, Mr. Hounds.
t,ulrVltC!UND,S: Mr' ^I'eaker, this
bill affects nobody but the city of
Portland. We are in a peculiar posi
tion in the city of Portland. We
have a population, you know of
some seventy thousand, and we have
a city government consisting of a
mayor, nine aldermen and 27 council
ffien. They have to raise this money,
but tiie school committee, consistin'
of nine members, elected three each
year and two at large, are the people
ultb spend the money in the school
department, and this year they have
put up 'the salary of the superin
tendent pf schools so that he is get
ting two thousand dollars ‘more than
the State superintendent of schools
Now the teachers who teach our
young children are not getting what
they ought to get; but on top of
that the superintendent, we think is
getting either more than he ought to
have, or we are not pdying our State
superintendent of schools enough.
Therefore while the city government
has tried to have this annulled and
put back, it cannot succeed in doin
it because the school committee is
too free. Therefore, we are intro
ducing this bill so that we can bring
it down to four thousand dollars, the
same as it was last year. Therefore,
I move that the bill be substituted for
the report.
The motion to substitute the bill
for the report prevailed
The SPEAKER: The gentleman
from Portland (Mr. Rounds) now
offers House amendment A to House
Document No. 282, and before enter
taining the amendment, the bill will
be given its first reading.
On motion by Mr. Rounds of Port
land, the rules were suspended, and
the bill received Its first two read- i
ings. Pending the third reading, :
Mr. Rounds of Portland offered
House amendment A to House Docu
ment No. 282, as follows:
Amend by striking out all after j
the enacting clause, and substituting!
in place thereof, the following, 1
namely:
Section 1. No city,'town, planta
tion, village corporation, school
board, or other subordinate public
body charged with the expenditure of
public moneys, shall pay to any of
ficer, agent, or employee as salary or
fees, a sum of money which in
cluding any sum paid to such officer,
agent, or employee by the State or
any department thereof, shall be in
excess or four thousand dollars per
annum. Nothing herein shall be
construed as limiting the compensa
tion which has been paid for per
sonal services at entertainments if
the money shall be derived from ad
mission fees.
Mr. ROUNDS: Mr. Speaker, I
would like to state that we have an
organ concert man who gets six
thousand dollars a year, but his fees
are paid from entertainments, and
that is why this other part was put
on.
The SPEAKER: All those who are
in favor of the adoption of House
amendment A will say aye, contrary
minded, no.
A viva voce vote was doubted by
Mr. Hinckley of So. Portland.
The SPEAKER: The attention of
the Houes is called to the fact that
you are about to vote upon the adop
tion of House amendment A to
House Document No. 282. All those
in favor of its adoption will rise and
stand until counted, and the monitors
will return the count. 5
So many arose that the Chair an
nounced that the amendment was
adopted.
Mr. ROUNDS of Portland: I move
that the rules be suspended and the
bill be given its third reading at
this time.
Mr. WING of Auburn: For the pur
pose of amendment, Mr. Speaker, I
move that the matter lie on the
table, pending its third reading.
The motion prevailed.
The Chair presents House Docu
ment No. 362, Bill, An Act providing
for an increase in the amount of tui
tion to be paid by towns for second
ary school pupils.
On motion by Mr. Barwise of Ban
gor, the bill was given its third read
ing and passed to be engrossed.
The Chair presents House Docu
ment No. 243, report of the commit
tee on judiciary on bill. An Act to
protect children from fire, tabled on
the 30th of March by the gentleman
from Lewiston, Mr. Mcllheron, pend
ing acceptance of the report.
Mr. McILHEUON of Lewiston:
Mr. Speaker, I move you that we sub
stitute the bill for the report.
The SPEAKER: The attention of
the House is called to House Docu
ment No. 343, printed bill.' The par
liamentary sitiuation is that the com
mittee on judiciary unanimously re
ports, ought not to pass. The gen
tleman from Lewiston, Mr. Mcll
heron moves to substitute the bill for
the report, and the Chair recognizes
that gentleman.
Mr. McILHERON: Mr. Speaker
and gentlemen of the House: I hate
%t this time to be paying my last
respects to the judgment of the
judiciary committee in regard to
matters and things. I do not claim
to be the author of this bill, but it
has been suggested to me by a man
who has run in the fire department
of the city of Lewiston for upwards
of thirty years, and he is a practical
man in his line, although not a mem
ber of the judiciary committee. I
would say that there have been
meritorious bills passed through this
House, and meritorious bills have
been denied that privilege, and it has
been emphasized by our Speaker that
it was the unanimous report of the
judiciary committee. Now, genlle
men, I hope that you will consider
well the merits of the bill, notwith
standing the unanimous report of
the judiciary committee, and I leave
the bill to your kind consideration.
The SPEAKER: All tljose who are
in favor of substituting the bill for
the report, will say aye, contrary
minded, no.
A viva voce vote being doubted by
the gentleman from Lewiston, Mr.
Mcllheron,
A division was had, and only nine
voting in favor of the motion, the
motion was declared lost.
On motion by Mr. Bussell of Bel
fast, the House then voted to adopt
the committee report, ought not to
pass.
Mr. WING of Auburn: Mr. Speak
er. I move that wo take from the
table House Document No. 450, Bill
An Act relating to the retiring of
State employees, and I move the
indefinite postponement of the bill.
I wish to say this in support of my
motion: There was introduced into
this Legislature on the 27th day of
January an act to provide for re
tiring and pensioning employees of
the State of Maine. This measure
was referred to the committee on
Judiciary. It was introduced, by
the gentleman from Augusta, Mr.
Maher, and on the third of March
this House accepted the report,
ought not to pass. The same gen
tleman on the eleventh of March in
troduced House bill No. 450, which
is an act amending Chapter 38 of
the Public Laws of 1010, relating >o
the retiring and pensioning of em
ployees of the State of Maine, and
that was referred to the commit
tee on pensions—the same subject
matter, and referred to the com
mittee on pensions. The committee
on pensions returned this bill in a
new draft into the House, with a
report that it ought to pass. I call
the attention of the House to Rule
14. ‘’When any measure shall be
finally rejected it shall not be re
vived except by reconsideration, and
no measure containing the same
subject matter shall be introduced
during the session unless three
day's notice is given to the House
of which the mover is a member.”
Now I have no particular interest
in this matter except that the House
should be informed as to the par
ticular situation of this particular
pending bill. The matter which has
been heard by one committee, and
reported, ought not to pass, appears
before another committee, with a
report, ought to pass, in the face of
this rule. Now it may be said to
you that this is not the same sub
ject matter, but I have read to you '
the titles of these bills. There is a
statute on the books now which
permits the pensioning of employ
ees of the State of Maine, but it is
not mandatory, and this Statute
makes it mandatory. Now, gentle- :
men, with these remarks I am in
terested to sec how this House will
treat this particular form of legis
lation. and I again move that the
matter be indefinitely postponed. ’
The SPEAKER: The motion of
the gentleman from Auburn, Mr. !
Wing, is that the measure now be
indefinitely postponed. Is this the
pleasure of the House?
The motion to indefinitely post
pone prevailed.
Mr. MAHER: Mr. Speaker, may
I have the gentleman from Auburn
read the first measure?
The SPEAKER: Does the gentle
man from Augusta (Mr. Maher)
move a reconsideration of the vote
whereby it was indefinitely post
poned?
Mr. MAHER: I do not.
The SPEAKER: Then there is
nothing before the House on this
measure.
At this point a recess was taken
Cor fifteen minutes.
AFTER RECESS -
The SPEAKER: On the disagree
ing action of the two branches of
the legislature.- on Bill, An Act to
provide for the jurisdiction of the
Public Utilities Commission over
certain motor vehicles, the Chair
will appoint as conferees on the
part of the House, Messrs. Cole of
Eliot, Hinckley of South Portland
and Crabtree of Island Falls.
Mr. MAHER of Augusta: Mr.
speaker, I move that the House re
consider its vote whereby it indefi
nitely postponed Bill, An Ac^ rela
tive to pensioning of employees of
the State of Maine, and I make the
motion for the purpose of being
able to make very brief remarks.
May I speak to the motion now?
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
inquire if the gentleman from Au
gusta, Mr. Maher,' has the papers
relative to this measure?
Mr. MAHER: I will state that I
have the papers here, Mr. Speaker.
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
state that at this morning’s session
the House voted to indefinitely post
pone, Bill, An Act to provide for
retiring and pensioning employees
of the State of Maine. The gentle
man from Augusta, Mr. Maher, now
moves a reconsideration of the vote
to indefinitely postpone.
Mr. MURCHIE: Mr. Speaker, I no
tice that the gentleman from Auburn,
Mr. Wing, is not in his seat, and I
suggest ttiat the motion to recon
sider be tabled temporarily until he
returns.
| The SPEAKER: The Chair will
■ sta.te that the gentleman from Auburn,
j Mr. Wing, lias just arrived in the
House. The question is on the mo
tion to reconsider the vote of the
House whereby it voted to indefinitely
postpone this measure.
Mr. MAHER: Mr. Speaker, the House
has recently heard the remarks of my
colleague and associate from Auburn,
'Mr. Wing, relative to rule number It
! anent an act to provide for retiring
| and pensioning employees of the State
! of Maine, and 1 desire at this time to
! make the following remarks in» order
| to show that the remarks of the gen
! tleman from Auburn, Mr. Wing, are
aside from the conclusion which he
i draws. I may state that I am unin
! terested in the fate of the measure,
and I care nothing whatever about it.
. The gentleman calls attention of the
■ House to rule number fourteen which
! says -that any measure which has
been finally rejected shall not be re
vived except by reconsideration, and no
: measure pertaining to the same sub
' jeet matter shall be introduced during
! the session unless three days' notice
: is given to the House of which the
; mover is a member. That rule, as ho
| stated, is correct, He states that upon
a certain day in January, I belie,ve it
, "'as January 27, there was introduced
; by me a bill for retiring and pension
i ing employees of the State of Maine
which was referred to the committee
j on judiciary, and upon March 11 there
was introduced a measure in regard
iu which reierence was recommended,
i to the committee on pensions, relating
to the same subject matter. The gen
tleman is in error. The same sub
: ject matter, gentlemen, is not from the
title; the same subject matter is the
£ist and the heart of what the act is.
We will all agree with that. I think.
I It is not in the name ol' a thing, it is in
| what the thing really is.
| Now, let us see. Chapter 3S of the
Laws of 1919 provides as follows, and
I will try and make this clear so that
any layman can understand, and he
need not be a lawyer—Chapter 3S of
the Laws of 1919 says that the super
intendent and board of trustees of any
State institution and the head of any
State department “may recommend."
Note the words, it says "may recom
mend” the retirement from active ser
vice and placing upon the pension roll
of any employee, “any employee," who
has been employed in any state insti
tution or department in this State
with a good record for the term of 2D
consecutive years. The rest of the
provision is immaterial; the important
part being the words "may recom
mend ’ and tlie words "any employee.”
Now, this subject arises out of the
condition at the insane hospital in the
city of Augusta. There are over there
two groups oi employees who are ef
fected by this pension act, and wheth
er it is due to their particular location
or to the particular make-up of the in- '
dividual or to the general variance in i
human nature, I do not know. But
those two groups differ among them- I
selves except in the fact that they
both want pensions, and they differ
in this, that they have different attor- j
neys. One of the attorneys for one !
group presented one bill, and he ap- :
peared before the judiciary committee
and frankly stated that he represented
one client, and his bill was as follows:
"The superintendent and board of
trustees of any .State institution and i
the head of any State department shall ]
lecommend the retirement from active'
service and placing upon the pension j
roll any employee.” Note the words i
“any employee,” and "shall recom- !
mend.”
the trouble originated over there
from the words "may recommend," the
superintendent under the discretion
permitted in the words "may recom
mend" refusing in several instances to
recommend, and some of these men
wanted the word "shall” inserted so
that when they had attained the quali- j
lications of the act. 25 years of con
secutive service, and they applied for :
a pension, that he should be compelled j
to recommend a pension, and that is
what is covered in this bill, "shall rec- ;
ommend.”
The committee on judiciary turned
down that proposition, I think per
haps wisely. I state here that my po- !
sition upon the matter of pensions of
State employees is that the pensioning
of civil employees is all wrong, and ab
solutely at variance with sound busi- j
ness principles. I do not think there
should be any civil employees of the
State of Maine pensioned, whether it
be a justice of the supreme judicial
court or ah employee of any of the de
partments, unless he has contributed
to a pension fund a certain percentage
of his salary. Now, that is the po
sition I took there and it is the po
sition I take here, and I was perfect
ly willing that the matter should be i
adversely reported. I do not like,’ i
though, to have the House think that ;
I am in any way taking advantage of ]
it, because I am not.
The next group, not satisfied be
cause of the ruling of the judiciary
committee, a group that is warring 1
and has been warring until this
morning here in the corridor, comes
in with a further bill which pro
vides as follows: "The superinten
dent and board of trustees of any j
State institution and the head of!
apy department shall recommend
the retirement from active service
and the placing upon the pension
roll any employee who shall have
attained the age of seventy years.'*
It says “shall reconUnend”, and
"that shall have attained the age of
seventy years,” and that clause be
ing entirely'foreign to that act, en
tirely foreign to the provisions of
the act, favorably reported by the
committee on pensions, and the
other group of men who are op
posed to it this morning in the cor
ridor sending for me and asking
that this hill be killed.
Now, Mr. Speaker, distinguished
attorneys from this county, former
county attorney Thomas Leigh, rep
resented the first group that ap
peared before the judiciary commit
tee; the present county attorney Mr.
Sanborn, represents the second
group who are willing to have the
seventy-year clause put in, and want
the “shall”, they both want the
“shall”, but only one group‘is will
ing to have the seventy-year clause.
If they have serve*d for twenty-five
years, and if they happen to be then
only fifty years of age or sixty years
of age, or fifty-five years of age. If
they have been there twenty-five
years drawing a salary from the
State, they want the superintendent
to be compelled to say that the
State of Maine shall give them a
pension. We said that we did not
think that was fair, and we turned
it down, and I think it was right.
The other group says, “of course
that should be turned down; what
we want is this—we want it com
•pulsory; we want the word *shan*
in there, but we want to be fair to
the State of Maine, and we want it
provided that any employee who
shall have served twenty-five con
secutive years and has attained the
age of esventy years, upon applica
tion being made, the superintendent
‘shall’ recommend.”
Now, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen
of the House, I simply advert to
this in order to clear away any idea
that there may be in the minds of
members of this House that there
was any attempt to obtain from a
different committee a different re
sult on' the same bill. They are not
the same bills, either in essence, in
substance or in semblance; they
are totally different, and the only
language wherein they bear a sim
ilitude is in the title. And with
this explanation, Mr. Speaker, in
consonance with my own position
that there should not be any pen
sion granted to any civil employee
or to any civil officer of this gov
ernment, whether he be a justice of
the court or an employee of the
highway department, or an em
ployee of the insane department,
until we have a law intelligently
framed like that In Massachusetts
which will provide for a contribu
tion of a certain percentage each
year from their salaries to that
fund. And I now move again for
the indefinite postponement of the
pending measure. (Applause).
Mr. WING of Auburn: Mr. Speak
er—
The SPEAKER: The Chair un
derstands that there is no motion
before the House.
Mr. MAHER: Mr. Speaker, I have
moved for the indefinite postpone
ment of this bill.
The SPEAKER: As the Chair un
der stands it. the measure was in
definitely postponed before the
House took a recess.
Mr. MAHER: And I understood,
Mr. Speaker, that the House recon
sidered that vote.
The SPEAKER: Does the gentle
man from Augusta, Mr. Maher,
move to reconsider?
Mr. MAHER: No. Mr. Speaker, I
will withdraw my motion.
On motion by Mr. Hinckley, of
South Portland, the House voted to
receive out of order the report of
the joint committee on judiciary
and ways and bridges on Bill, An
Act relative to motor vehicles and
the laws of the road, and to revise
and amend Chapter 2(5 of the Ite
vised Statutes and acts amendatory
thereof and additional thereto, re
porting same in new draft under
same title and that it “ought to
pass”, the report being signed by the
following: Messrs Ilinckley of South
Portland- Wing of Auburn, Gardi
ner of Gardiner, Cole of Eliot: Sen
ator Stevens of .York. Messrs. Willi
am of Clinton, Gerrish of Lisbon,
Story of Washburn, Brewster of Or
land. Senator Gill in of Penobscot,
Senator Parriiigton of Kennebec,
Air. Murchic of Calais, Senator
Parent of Androscoggin, Messrs.
Smith of 'Skowhegan, Granville of
Parsonsfleld, Senators Adams of
Kennebec and Baxter of Sagadahoc.
The report was accepted.
On motion by Mr. Hinckley of
South Portland, the rules were sus
pended and the bill received its two
several readings.
On motion by Mr. Murchie of
Calais, the bill was tabled pending
its third reading and 500 copies or
dered printed.
On motion by Air. Hinckley of
South Portland, the House voted to
receive out of order the reports of
the joint committee on judiciary and
ways and bridges on Bill, An Act to
provide for a full time State high- :
way commission, amending Section 3
and Section 4 of Chapter 25 of the
Revised Statutes, relative to State!
highways, and also amending Section '
34 of Chapter 117 of the Revised
Statutes relating to salaries of the
State highway commission, the ma
jority report being in a new draft
and “ought to pass” and being
signed by Messrs. Hinckley of South
Portland, Gardiner' of Gardiner,
Granville of Parsonsfleld, Witham of
Clinton, Gerrish of Lisbon,* Story of
Washburn, Wing of Auburn, Brew
ster of Orland, Cole of Eliot: and
Senators Gillin of Penobscot Parent
of Androscoggin, Adams of Kenne- j
bee, Farrington of Kennebec, Stevens
of York and Baxter’of Sagadahoc,!
and Messrs. Case of Lubec and Smitli !
of Skowhegan: t^he minority report,
reporting 'that the same “ought not
to pass” signed by Air. BuZzell of
Belfast.
On’ motion by Mr. Case of Lubec,
the majority report was accepted.
On motion by Mr. Murchie of
Calais, the rules -were suspended and
the bill received its two several
readings.
On further motion by the same
gentleman, the bill was tabled pend
ing Its third reading and 500 copies
ordered printed.
On motipn by Mr. Alorneau of
Lewiston, Senate Document No. 116,
Bill, An Act to promote the ef
ficiency of the Lewiston fire depart
ment, was taken from the table.
The SPEAKER: In the House, this
bill was passed to be engrossed as
amended by House Amendment “A.”
[n the Senate, that chamber dia
agreed with the action of the House
In non-concurrence.
Subsequently the House voted td
adhere; in the Senate, that body
voted to insist on its former action
and asked for a committee of con
ference, with the following con
ferees named on the part of the Sen
ate: Senators Parent of Androscog
gin, Clark of Lincoln and Eaton of
Oxford.
On motion by Mr. Morneau, the
House voted to concur with the Sen
ate and join a committee of confer
ence.
The Speaker thereupon appointed
as such committee of conference on
the part of the House, Messrs. Lar
[ rabee of I-cwiston, Barwise of Ban
!gor and Wilson of Presque Isle.
_a—
Mr. GRANVILLE of Farsonsfleld:
Mr. Speaker, I have here a statement
of facts from the committee on ways
and bridges which I would like at
this time to read to the House.
(Mr. Granville then started to read
the statement of facts.)
Mr. BUZZELL of Belfast: Mr.
; Speaker, it seems to me that the
gentleman from Farsonsfleld, Mr.
Granville, has 'some very valuable
• information to impart to the House,
and I move that the further reading
of the communication be dispensed
with and that 500 copies of the en
tire communication be printed as a
legislative document.
The motion was agreed to.
On motion by Mr. Poore of Casco,
Bill, An Act to amend Paragraph 7
of Section 98 of Chapter 4 of the Re
vised Statutes, as amended by Sec
tion 2 of Chapter 5S of the Public
Laws of 1917, relating to gasoline
tanks and pumps placed within the
limits of the highway, was taken
from the table.
The pending question being the
third reading of the bill,
On further motion by Mr. Poore,
the biil received its third reading
and was passed to be engrossed.
The SPEAKER: The Chair take*
from the table, Bill, An Act to amend
Section 12 of Chapter 117 of the Re
vised Statutes, relating to the mile
age of the members of the Lcgisla
ture, tabled by the Chair March 31.
pending its third reading.
The pending question being the
third reading of the bill,
The bill then received Its third
reading and was passed to be en
grossed.
Mr. WADSWORTH of Winthrop:
Mr. Speaker, I move that the vote be
reconsidered whereby the House yes
terday passed to be engrossed Sen*
ate Document No. 170, resolve ap*
preprinting money to pay for screen?
ing certain lakes and ponds, I will
state that I do this for the purpose
of later placing it upon the table for
the reason that the money that is to
be raised for this purpose is to come
from non-resident fishing licenses,
and I understand there is a bill to be
introduced to repeal that law, and if
that is a fact there will be no money
left for that purpose.
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
inquire if the gentleman from Win
throp. Mr. Wadsworfth, has the pap
ers relative to this measure in his
possession?
Mr. WADSWORTH: I understand
the papers are in the possession of
the engrossing department.
The SPEAKER: The Chair will
suggest that the gentleman from
Winthrop, Mr. Wadsworth, prepare
an order requesting the engrossing
department to return the papers to
the House.
Mr. Wadsworth then presented the
following order:
ORDERED, that the committee on
engrossed bills return to the House,
Senate Rocuinent No. 170, Resolve
appropriating money to aid in screen
ing certain lakes and ponds.
1 lie order received a passage
The SPEAKER: The Chair pre
sents the resolve referred to for the
consideration of the House.
On motion by Mr. Wadsworth, the
resolve was then laid upon the table.
On motion by Mr. Forbes of Paris,
the vote was reconsidered whereby
tiie House passed to be engrossed,
Bill, An Act to amend Section 12. of
Chapter 117 of the Revised Statutes,
relating to mileage of members of
the legislature.
Mr. FORBES: Mr. Speaker, this
bill has not been printed, and in some
way I happened to be absent from
the House when it received its two
readings yesterday, and did not no
tice until it came up this morning on
the calendar. 1 have just had oc
casion to look at the bill and while
1 am in, favor of the main proposi
tion of tiie bill, I have discovered one
very interesting feature in it, name
ly, that for a special session of the
legislature the members shall receive
a per diem and mileage at a very
liberal rate, ft was my pleasure, as
a member of the Seventy-ninth legis
lature, to attend two special sessions,
one lasting for four days and one
lasting one day, and with the mileage
at the present rate, I received a very
fair compensation, being far enough
distant from Augusta to make a fair
sized check. Those special sessions
were very pleasant social reunions,
and incidentally we increased the
bonded indebtedness of the State by
several millions by holding those
special sessions. That, however, is
merely by the way. Tf this bill had
been in effect, I should have received
for the first session of four days, un
der the very profitable computation
of mileage, the sum of Jfll.'and for the
second session, a somew’hat larger
sum. Of course those members who
are farther distant would receive cor
respondingly larger mileage.. It seems
to me that there is something in this
bill which is ngt just exactly as it
should be. Special sessions of the
legislature of course are to be dis
couraged and are to be held only in
cases of emergency, and in view of
the provisions of this bill, I now
move that it be tabled tor the purpose
of amendment.
The motion was agreed to and the
bill was tabled.
Mr. HOLLEY of North Anson: Mr.
Speaker, to avoid any confusion at a
later date, in the House, and realiz
ing that there* are very many mem
bers here of various delegations who
are vitally interested In the appropri
ations which may be granted to va
rious charitable institutions in the
state, and meaning more particularly
the smaller hospitals, I want to call
the attention of members of the
House to Senate Document No. 182,
which is a blanket resdlve covering
all the various smaller charitable in
stitutions in the state: and when
your original resolves come back into
the House they will be reported
"ought not to pass,” and fearing that
you might misunderstand this, I call
your attention to the fact that the
(Continued on Pas# S—Col. 4)