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Honolulu star-bulletin. (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii) 1912-current, October 03, 1912, 3:30 Edition, Image 12

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a -
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Hustace-Peck Co., Ltd.
Undsay -Tells How Warrants
To Arrest Witnesses
Were Issued "
Below i printed some of. the Inter,
evtintr testimony durinc the Fisher
heurln? this week.
Fisher: Mr. Ashford. I believe we
have arranged to have the Governor
take up this time the more specific;
items in the complaint in regard to j
the Governor. Before doing that,
Ierhaps we ought to dispose of any
othf r matters which you' have. Is
there anything?
Ashford: There are some matters.
I should like to ask you I would like
to produce now, among others, a let
ter from Mr. R. Lougher, who is one
of the gentlemen who talked to us
at Hilo and is himself - a planter, a
letter from myself and certain state
ments of argument in regard to the
proportion that should be allowed be
tween planter, end mill, backed up by
Eome tables and figures. , I have
sTiown thern to the Governor and If
they- consent' I understand that they
may, be placed on the record. v
Fisher: -What is the substance
what 'does Mr...Lpugher think should
properly be the proportion between
planter and mill.
Ashford: The statement is quite
short; perhaps I might read it. (Reads
statement). He does not refer tp his
figures there, although he does , in
his letter to me. I notice that the
item is profit on planter's sugar per
ton, $50.81.
Fisher: That is per ton of sugar?
Ashford: Per ton.
Mr. Fisher: That Is, upon what
theory of division?
Ashford: The theory of the prices
that are generally prevailing now.
Fisher: Well that is $4 a ton for
cane on four-cent sugar that is the
basis on which he figures his profit
of $50.00. .
Ashford: Well, yes, it is. on four
cent sugar. He also quotes here from
the prospectus of the San Carlos Mill
ing Company.' That is a Philippine
corporation that is, a Hawaiian cor
poration operating in the Philippines,
whereby he shows that their prospec
tus proposes to pay .the planters ,60
per cent, tor their cane and the mill
ing company take only 40.
Mr. Fisher: In that connection, Mr.
Olson, I would like to nave perhaps
some further testimony from Mr.
Ivers. Can we arrange that a little
later? 4
Mr. Olson: Yes.
Mr. Fisher: I would like to get his
views on the form and terms of con
tract, and also In regard to the Jmmi-.
gratlori statutes:? And Mr.. Starrettj
the marketing superintendent, - is he
here? ';'" :.. '
Mr. Olson: Yes. r ..
Mr. Fisher:.-Was- there anything
else,'. Mr. Ashford. V
Ashford: Yes, Mr. Secretary, but
with regard to this (showing letter).
Fisher: Yes, let that be; let that
go in,'
Ashford: I don't know whether you
would care to have files perhaps you
may care to see photographs of the
residences of the members of the
Thompson Settlement Association,
near Waiohinu.
Fisher: Very well.
Ashford:- I undertook, as I remem
ber, to produce a certain letter writ
ten by Mr. Wolters, manager of the
Hutchinson plantation at Naalehu, of
fering to buy the lands of the home
steaders there. 1 have the original
here, together with a certified copy of
it and of the reply. If the certified
copy is accepted 1 would like very
much to withdraw the original.
Fisher: I see no reason why that
should not be done.
Ashford : I have also copies of let
ters from two members of the asso
ciation, Mr. Hayselden and Miss Tay
lor written to Senator Hewitt dur'.ng
the last term of the Legislature while
he was here in Honolulu, describing
the efforts of Mr. Wolters, the plan
tation manager there, to secure the
assent of the members to a sale of
the plantation. t
Fisher: That is in general corroh
oration of the testimony given to us
on the ground?
Ashford: Yes.
Fisher: Very well.
Ashford: I am holding the original
of this letter. I have here, received
since returning from Hilo, a let'er
from a gentleman signing himself L. '
Malterre, whom I do not know, with
reference to the Kuliamano home
stead tract in the district of Soi.tft
Hilo, being a part of the land pre-:
viously applied for by the Thompson
Settlement Association, which ;ias
been recently divided up between ota
ers, and it is in that locality that tnis j
Mrs. Bradley from whom you have a
letter is located. The complaint i3
addressed to myself under date of
September 23. (Heads.) i
Now, Mr. Secretary, there were
some matters that I would like to in
quire about from the Attorney Gen
eral before the Governor takes the
chair as 1 understand, and, if satis-'
factory to you, I would like to ask the
Attorney General a few questions.
Fisher: I understand that on the
other question of fact you intended to
rely upon the statement of the Gov
ernor himself except insofar as in his
statement he might raise some ques
tion of accuracy which he might wish
to change. Now as to the attorney
general, there was a matter that 1 1
was going to ask him about myself. '
Perhaps you had better cover that and:
then again take up the other matter
which you referred to.
Mr. Lindsay, your full name is?
Lindsay: Alexander Lindsay, Jr.
Fisher: And you are the attorney,
general of the territory?
Lindsay: Yes.
Fisher: How long have you been
Attorney General? j
Lindsay: About two years and a.
half. 1
Fisher: And when you came into of
fke, I believe there was some litiga
tion pending with regard to the water
rights or claims of one o? the plan
trtions? Lindsay: Wailuku.
Fisher: Wailuku. That ligitation.
ve were told the other day, had teen
settled by you. Now there has also
been an exenange made of certain i
property to the plantation located In
the town for certain property of the
gcvernment outside of the town. The i
statement was made there tnat the i Hemenwav
want to ask Mr. IJnday any ques
tions? Ashford: You were attorney gener
al during the Japanese strike, Mr.
Lindsay: No, not during the Jap.
anese strike.
Ashford: You were here?
Lindsay: Yes.
Ashford: Who was your predeces
sor in office. Mr. Lindsay?
Lindsay: Mr. Hemenway.
Ashford: 1 would like to ask Mr.
- Mr. Hemenway. will
two matters had nothing to do with you state whether, during the Japan
each other. Was that correct? ese strike either you or the governor
Lindsay: 1 have never hearJ tell or commissioned Mr. Kinnev and Mr.
that exchange until yesterday. Prosser or either of them as deputies
Fisher: It had nothing to do with of the attorney eeneral?
the other?
Lindsay: Absolutely nothing.
Fisher: I wish you would tell us
what the situation was with regard
to this litigation there why you
settled it and
Lindsay: When I came, into of
fice, I found that there had been an
injunction a bill for injunction
brought by the Wailuku Sugar Com
pany against the Territory and the
County of Maui, in which it was com
plained that we were diverting a
great deal more water than our share
from the Wailuku stream.' The facts
were that someyears ago, the Territory-had
bought a small piece of land,
I think it was about an acre and a
quarter, up in Iao Valley. Of this acre
and a quarter there was only three
quarters of an acre entitled to water.
When the Territory bought this they
also bought another little piece of
land from the Wailuku Plantation and
built a reservoir and laid a- pipe line
and started to take water and laid
pipes, made a little water works sys
tem for the town of Wailuku. The
complaint went on to state that we
took a little more and a little more
until, as a matter of fact, we were
taking a great deal more than we
were entitled to. About eight years
before that, that would be about 10
years now, the, pipe line had burst at
the intake and without leave of any
one we simply shifted our pipe line
over to the plantation land, a place
where we 'had no right. Before 1
came into office, there had been a
great many preliminaries, arid just
the week I came into office, Mr.
Pogue, who is chairman of the Board
of Supervisors, and Mr. Bal, Superin
tendent of Wailuku Water Works,
they 'came down and together with
MrJ Kinney, who was repVesenting the
Wailuku Sugar Company and Mr.
Coke, James L., an - attorney he at
that thime was County Attorney for
Maui and by the way , the County
was really .the party Interested in this
whole-case; it wasof so.jnuch-- thai j
Territory as : jene county oi Araur7
they- came down and; after a 366 of
talks suggested that ?we compromise.
They went back to Maui and fTgifred
up how ,much we really were entitled
to. In fact all we. were entitled to
was the water from ithat three-quarters
of an .acre and Water to two or
three lots, like the court house lot
and the old church lot, but there
were a great many .natives and ku
leana holders that were entitled to
water and our claim was that we
were taking their water but deliver
ing it to them through our pipes in
lieu of delivering it to them in the
open auwais. Anyway, v.iih the plan
tation and Mr. Pogue, who knows the
situation from the ground up, it was
finally agreed 1 should say before
this- that after the suit, (the injunc
tion bill) had been commenced, the
county people, Bal and Mr. Pogue,
commenced buying or leasing from
the kuleana holders their water
rights. Well, it was agreed that the
county should turn over all these
leases and these water rights to the
Wailuku Sugar Company. We would
give the Winluku Sugar Company a
lease of that little kuleana in Iao
Valley and that thereafter for 2o
years we were to be allowed to take
510,000 gallons of water every 24
hours, which as Mr. Pogue informed
me would be more than wanted for a
long time. He considered it a very
splendid compromise and Mr. Kin
ney, he didn't mind our getting a
good, generous share of the water;
his fear was that if he did not bring
that suit, that by adverse possession
we would have gained that water.
Besides that 510,000 gallons of water;
we also made a list of all those who
were entitled to water and who had
previously been taking it through
open ditches, and the Wailuku Sugar
.Company agreed to give us all of
their water, which we would deliver
to thenwthrough pipes. Then, if it
should be necessary any time within
the next twenty-five years, if more
water should be necessary, the agree
ment allows us to buy all the water
we want up to 2,000,000 gallons a
day, at the rate of ten dollars a mil
lion gallons. Considering that we
sell water at seven dollars a thousand
gallons, that would be a pretty good
bargain, and the case was settled.
Fisher: Now, Governor, there was
some land up there that was ex
changed for this land in the town
what land was that, with reference to
this three-quarters of an acre the
kuleana which the attorney general
has referred to?
Governor: I have no recollection
whatever of it.
Fisher: 1 understand the state
ment is now made that they had no
connection how are they situated
Governor: I think they are two or
three miles apart.
Fisher: So that it is in'ectiy clear
that the only land that the govern
ment owned was this acre and a quar
ter, of which three-quarters oi an acre
was entitled to water.
Mr. Lindsay: -That and a little
courthouse lot about which ti,'ir was
a question as to whether it owned any
Fisher: Now, Mr. Ashford, do you
Hemenway: I did.
Ashford: Was that with or with
out the sanction of the Governor?
Hemenway: Without it.
Ashford: Where was he?
Hemenway: I think he was on Ha
waii or Maui.
Ashford: Did he return to town
during the time that those gentlemen
were acting in that capacity?
Hemenway: I believe he did.
Ashford: Did you acquaint him
with the fact?
Hemenway: I may have mentioned
it incidentally.
Governor: I learned it before I re
turned to town.
Ashford: During that time can you
say whether those deputies of jours
were instrumental in procuring the
raiding of private premises and. the
looking over of private safes and oth
er depositories of papers for the pur
pose of securing evidence for the
Hemenway: . They were instrument
al in breaking open the safe, but that
was before they held the commission
from me as deputies attorney general.
Ashford : v After they iield that
commission they; were still, engaged
in that general 'enterprise.
Hemenway: They were prosecut
ing and were looking naturally for
evidence. . I; have 'good reason to be
lieve that they did not break open any
more safes. .'
Ashford: How many did they
break open? tl"!
Hemenway: So far as I know, one.
Ashford: ' isn't it a fact that they
actually broke open one with dyna
mite or other agency of, that kind,
whereas another one they found the
lock was not shut, and they opened
that without the necessity of violent
Hemenway: That may be.
Ashford: What police officer, if any
was along, if you know, at the time,
and conducted the proceedings?
Hemenway: I think the High Sher-
: Ashford: That Is, Mr. Wm. Henry?
Hemenway: Mr. Henry.
iAshford: ' You understand that he
was acting under the instructions of
these gentlemen?
Hemenway: I believe he was.
Ashford: During how long a period
c!id that series of acts occur?
Hemenway: About a day and a
Ashford: Did the administration,
either through yourself or through the
Governor, do anyting to discounten
ance those acts and restore the prop
erly and papers to te parties? v
Hemenway: I might say that the
administration strongly disapproved of
the methods which were followed, but
they did not return many of the pa
pers Ashford: And the administration,
of which you were at the head, name
ly the legal administration, went
ahead and used that evidence for the
Hemenway: We did.
Ashford: There was no search war
rant or anything of the kind?
Hemenway: Not during this period.
Ashford: Do you know if there
were any considerable number of ar
rests made without warrants about
that same time and of that same
Hemenway: There were some, Mr.
Ashford, I do not know how many?
Ashford: Do you know of a system
that was in vogute at that time of
taking a number of men Into custody,
looking them in the station house,
hcldingt them for forty-eight hours un
der the pretext that the law allows a
man to be held for that long, and then
at the end of that time release him
end then rearrest him?
Hemenway: I do not know that
any such system as that was follow
ed. Ahford: Well, you practically gave
them full swing?
Hemenway: Yes, I left matters
very largely to the care of Mr. Kin-
i ney and Mr. Cathcart. Mr. Cathcart
: i i j; ai i J
oeing airecuy in cnarge or me general
Ashford: I think that is all I want
to ask of Mr. Piemen way.
Fisher: The Mr. Kinney you men
tioned, was that Mr. W. A. Kinney?
Ashford: Yes.
Governor: In the testimony in the
natter of the second safe, the owner
accompanied the officer and It was
opened with his acquiesence. I learn
ed of those facts when I was on Ha
v.aii and was very much put out. As
soon as I returned I ordered au in
vestigation. I disapproved very strong
ly and gave orders that nothing th it
the High SherifT should not obey any
instructions of the attorneys without
fist consulting either the Attorney
General or myself. Mr. Kinney took
the entire responsibility of that mat
ter, and I think he is perfectly ready
to take the entire responsibility in the
Ashford: For whom was Mr. Kin- j
ney and Mr. Prosser acting at the
time? j
Governor: They were acting I do
rot know
Ashford: Wasn't it generally un
derstood that they were acting tor the
so-called planters' atsociation?
Governor: I presume so.
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Olson: Mr. Hemenway, isn't it a
fact that the evidence was objected to
on the ground of the manner in which
it was procured?
Hemenway: Yes, I believe so.
Fisher: Well, suppose the govern
ment was in possession of evidence
showing that a crime had been com
mitted. ' Do you think the government
would be permitted to surrender that
Hemenv.ay: The Governor strongly
disapproved. He expressed his opin
ion in no uncertain terms.
Ashford: Mr. Lindsay, at the time
of the so-called labor strike, in the
spring of 1911, were you then Attor
ney General?
Lindsay: Yes.
Ashford: And you personally, in
your capacity as Attorney General,
made application to the Circuit judge
for the arrest of a large number of
persons, upon the allegation that they
were required as witnesses?
Lindsay: I did.
Ashford: Do you remember the num
ber of prisoners who were required?
Lindsay: As I recollect, 1 think there
were over forty. " . ' j
Olson: 78. '
Ashford: At whose instigation did
you make that requisition on the Cir
crjit judge?
Lindeay: The way that came about
wa: Mr. Prosser and Mr. Ballou came
to me and told me that they had for
nearly a week been trying to get a
lot of witnesses to testify before the
grand jury against Craig and another
man for violating our immigrant stat
utes, and that they had had subpoenas
issued tut the Federal authorities
would not allow them to be served
over on Quarantine Island, "where
these men were stationed. They told
. . . i ' .L . . J
nin r ( i 'i r ihukd tt i f i w inin I iimv whiiiii
- J V .Ll.t. '
were going away mat. aay, i iuiuk, uu
the steamer Korea. i
A Los Angeles judge announced
that wives who wouldn't cook for hus
bands couldn't expect alimony from
him if they sued for divorce.

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