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New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, February 21, 1907, Image 2

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Mr. Jerome asked about a previous trip with
another lawyer-* Mr. Warren. Mrs. Thaw
'might have gone there" wth him; she wasn't
cure; ehe "wouldn't rememV-er." Nor could she
recall whether the language of Mr. AVhite's let
ters were proper, nor. at first, where any of
them were. At last she said she hat! given pome
to her liufband in Paris, after having received
them from Uedford. his valet. Where Bedford
got them from remained a mystery, us did murh
elee concerning- the letters, as mice more Mrs.
ThaWs memory proved fickle. She did recall,
however, receiving fourteen letters from White
while Bhe was in Paris in l'.rfC, all of which she
gave to Thav. There might be s<;ine more in a
trunk of her?, at present in storage at I laze's,
Paris; she couldn't be sure.
fbe v W i <-'d to
j . ' "Yes,

■»■• ■ than
Ho, sir."
••i ac
1 un
"Y< b, sir."
. not a 1
A; the clof<e of th^ day Mr. Jerome tried to
get Mrs. Thaw to j>laoe more definitely tho date
of the alleged maltreatment by Mr. White. She
could not recall the weather,; on that day nor
the day oi tho week, nor even the month. But
she thought it roust have been in September or
October. Mr. Jerome looked his surprise at
euch forget fulness.
MRS. THAW'S MEMORY BAD
Sail* "I Don't Remember" When
Quizzed by Jerome.
The <>.;• • j n Nesblt
Tha-.' - xatn. nation
causf3 ar. • irioslty nccker.s
tn taaemble > . ly. "
Its capacity.
Mrs. Thaw, who was dressed in her customary
girlish suit of blue, was on the stand all day.
The first pan of her examination was tiresome,
consisting ■■ ■•■■■ identification of photographs
taken, ft was conceded, at the 22d street studio
of Stanford White the Lay before the assault
charged against White. Three photographs
were shown to the witness and were identified.
Mrs. Thaw said they were taken while she was
In "Fiorodora," La 1901. Mr. Jerome then went
back to Mr?. Thaw's early life In Philadelphia
and her posing for artists. He asked :
Q.— When you went to Philadelphia you resided
with your mother, did you not? A.— Yes.
Q.— How old were you then? A.— I was fourteen.
Kow long did you continue to reside in Phila
delphia? A—l don't remember the exact time, but
we wero th*re, 1 should say, the greater part of
the year ISw).
Cf— And did you come from Philadelphia to New-
York? A.— No.
Q.— You went hack to some other place in Penn
eylvanla? A.— Yes.
Q.— And then came to New York when? A. — I
think in November, or about that time, in IMo.
Q. — While you r.-ere residing in Philadelphia you
from time to time posed for pome lady artists
there, did you not ? A.— Y*"s.
Q. — An 3 you posed for thret- men artists who were
Illustrators, didn't you? A.— No: two illustrators
end the oth«-r was a photographer.
Q. — The posir.g th-.-re was — did Ii Involve any ex
posire at ull? A. — No.
Q.— Hat simply in costume? A.— costume. My
r.€rk was exposed and nothing more.
Q.— The same is true as to the posing for the
photographer? A.— Yes.
Q.— When yo-i came to New York you brought
letters of introduction to Mr. Carroll Beckwith and
other well know: : men? A. — I don't remember
whether it was a letter or —
Q— lt was something to put you In touch with
Mr. Beckwith? A.— Yes.
Q-— And through Mr. Beckwith yo - i were placed
In communication with other artists of Ftcindlnar
here in New York? A.— Yes.
Q— Up to that timp had you at any time posed
for an artist or photographer undraped? A.— No.
Q.— And for Mr. Beckwith or these other artists
that he put you in touch with, were you undraped
or in costume? A.— ln costum?;, drapery.
Q —Drapery of what character? A.— Long dra*
pery they put it on.
Q— l mean, was It ordinary clothes, or wns It so
called artistic drapery, so that the figure was ex
posed? A.— No. I would not say that— I had ono
Greek dress and a long-, flowing robe.
Q- — But in none of these costumes that you posed
5n for Mr. Be.-kwith or the artists to "whom he
cent you were you undraped? A.— No.
<&.- Did you ever pose so that a portion of the
figure might be Feen through the drapery? A.—
Q.— l you ever pose undrapc-d? A.— No.
Q.— Eithf-r by any artist or photographer? A.—
JCo. I posed with low necked dresses.
Q.— ln none of these jiictures was the bust ex
posed nude? a.— l don't think so.
Q— ( 'an you say whether it was or not? A.— No.
Q — Whether you posed for photographs or posed
for artists? A.— Yes.
Mr. Jerome then brought the witness to the
time she came to Xew York, and asked her
about her life here. He asked:
When you came to New York, which I under
stand iM'.s in the latter part of the year I<*>j, you
were then not quite sixteen? A — No.
Q.— Where did you and your mother fro to live
frst? A.— ln Wet 22d street.
Q.— How long did you remain there? A.— l don't
remember how lone— until we movcJ near to the
theatre.
Q.— What theatre? A.— Casino Theatre.
Q-— When you moved up near to the theatre
Where did you move to? A.— First to a house be-
ween Pi I and Sixth avenues, on SSth street.
Q— Do you recall the name of the owner of tho
house? A.— No, sir. It was a boarding house. I
don't remember the name.
Q.*— Haven't you nnd your mother ever talked
about this place, and haven't you heard your moth
er etatp in lhat conversation or u.-.e the name of
Mrs. Henley aa the landlady of that house? A.— l
don't remember.
Q.— And the place, yr.u say, wns in "Sth street
between Fifth ami Sixth avenue?? A.—Y'-k. sdr.
'.• - v. y en you moved to this place in 38th si reel
Jiad yo» already become employed on the stage?
.A— Yes.
Q.— How Ion? had you been on the ptape. before
you moved to this house In 3Sth street? A.— A short
time; I don't remember exactly, only a few weeks
or a month.
Q— So It was while you were still living In West
2£th street that you went on the stage? A.— Yes.
Q.— Now. can you recollect th^ time that you
■went pa the stage? A.— lt wns in liwi, during; the
summer.
Q.— About .Tun*, was It not? A.— Thereabouts.
<j. — And the first company you were with wag
TVl:at company? A. — : lie Fiorodora.
Q.— And ur:t:! June, 1301, from tha time that you
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Interest allowed on daily balances,
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: had arrived In X- w York, you had contributed no
' inconsiderable amount, practically »' ! . t() tI)O BU P"
port of yoursolf^ind your mother and brother, hud
you not? A.— lt was not very much.
Q— I know, but 8tl!l In the hum circumstances
yoa were then in It was about all there was? A.—
Y<-s.
Q.— And you earned about $16 or S' 1 - a week, or
something like that, for posing? A — Yes.
Q. — Now, how did you ilrst come to go upon the
stage In June, 101? A.— Through some photographs
published In the newspapers.
Q.— Wh£ it In the newspaper, or was it In the
''Broadway Magazine"? A. I don't remember. 1
think '.t was In a newspaper.
Q.— Did you not take a photograph of yourself to
tho "Broadway Magazine." or some person con
nected with it, for publication there, nnd was It
not published there under the name of Florenco
Evelyn— or Evelyn Florence? A.— Evelyn Florence.
Q. — You had seen that magazine before it pub
lished > our picture? A. — I think so.
Q.— Hail feon numbers of them— l don't menn
large numbers, but several of the publication It
self: A.— Yes. sir.
(j.— And after tho publication of your picture in
It. nnd when you were upon the stage, Id you
from time to time see this publication? A.— l think
so: I don't remember exactly.
-.' Can you tell us how long It was before you
went on the stage that you tia.\? that picture to
the "Broadway Magazine"? A. No, I can't re
member; ii short time. 1 think.
Q.— And then after that was It that the reporter!
came and wanted pictures of you? A.— l think so.
Q.—At this period you are speaking of. before
you went on the stage, when you were In hard
financial straits. Mr. Holman assisted the family
and afterward married your mother, and they are
now husband and wife? A --Yes, sir.
Q— And during this period you also pos< for
Sarony, the photographer, did you not? A.— ics,
Q.— After that publication In "The Broadway
Magazine" of your picture, newspaper reporters
came to look you up and pet pictures fnnn you?
A.— Yes.
Q.— Before you wont on the stage? A.— Yes.
ii' you pivp them to them? A.— No.
Q.- Did you Inform them where they could od
tain ' em. A-^No.
Q Did .a reporter come to your house and see
you and ask who you were? A.— yes, ?ir.
Q.— Did your mother give him some photographs?
A.— Yes. Fir.
Q.— And they were published? A.— Yes. sir.
Q.- With the description that you were an artists
model? A.— Yes. „ ,
Q— Now, this all occurred while you were living
In -2d Btreet? A.— Yes.
Mr. Jerome then brought up the name of
"Ted" Marks, the theatrical manager, and ex
amined the witness closely about her relations
with him. Mark?, the witness said, wrote to
her, but she could not tell where his letters
were. In this connection Mr. Jerome asked:
q —Did you take at one time a number of papers
from a warehouse In this city? A.— l don't re
member.
Q.— Do you remember pointr to a warehouse In
this city with a lawyer? A.— Yes. sir.
Q.— What was the lawyers name? A.— Mr. Hart
ridtre.
Q— Did you take some papers from that ware
house? A.— No.
Q.— None at all? A.— No.
Q— What did you take? A.— Nothing.
Q.— Did you .tk* any examination? A —No.
Q.— Do you remember poin^ to that fame ware
house l*fore polnp with Mr. Hartridge and with
another lawyer? A.— l might have gone thero with
the first lawyer, Mr. Warren.
Q.— Do you know a lawyer named IVndleton?
A.— No.
Q.— Did you not go to the warehouse with a law
yer oth*r than Mr. Hartridge? A. — I might have*
gone with Mr. Warren. I cannot say exactly.
'.i — Didn't you go and take from the warehouse a
considerable number of papers? A.— You mean
with Mr. Hartridge?
Q.— No, v. !»:i Mr. Warren. A.— l don't remember.
Letters which the witness received from
Stanford White were the subject of many ques
tions by Mr. Jerome, who asked:
Q. — Did you not have a large number of letters of
Stanford White's? A.— l don't know. 1 think I had
tome letters.
Q.— Where are these letters now? A.— l don't
know.
Q. — Was there a singl word of Indecency or im
propriety In any of those letters? A.— l don't re
member.
O.— Letters to you? A.— Yes.
Q.— Where are those letters? A— l don't know.
Q.— When <s!d you last Beo them? A.— l think the.
last om a I saw were
QQ — Ivjtters to you? A.— Yes, sir.
Mr. Jerpme— l ask for the'r Ktlon.
Mr. O'Reilly— Stanford White took them from hrr.
Mr. Jerome— Do you gentlemen want to testify?
If so. It would be a very {rreat pleasure to have
you. I afk for tho production of the letters. If
they are in existence ! cannot produce secondary
evidence of their contents.
Mr. Hartridge— Did you Speak to me, just nnv,
abo it testifying?
Mr. Jerome— l didn't spe^k to you,
Mr. Hartridge— l happened to know, ns 1 went
with the witness, she never K^t any letters, 1 ••-
cause we were informed that the District Attorney
had left word at the warehouse not to give up any
thing In there, bo that perhaps he can tell us about
the letters.
Mr. Jerome— many counsel are trylntr this
ease? [ am entirely at a. loss to know when- to
address myself. I have the right to know to whom
I should address myself.
The Court— Thero Is rtnthinir before tho court
now. The letters are called for and they arc- not
produced.
Q.— What did you do with those, letters' a —
Which ones?
Q.— The ones Stanford White, had written to you.
Which un.-s?
Q.— of the letters you had received from Ptan
f rd White at any time; »tr« there ony of them In
existence now? a — Yes.
Q.— Who has them? A.— Mr. Hartridge.
Q.— Did you pive them to him? A.— No; Mr. Thaw
Kave them to him
Q.— All the Utters that SAnford White wrote to
you you turned over to Mr. Thaw? A.— Yes.
Q.— Then you had kept Stanford White's letters to
you? A. — Some of them.
Q.— Have you kept all r,f them? A. — No.
Q— What ones lia.l you destroyed— during what
period? A.— l don't remember.
q.— When did you last see these letters from Stan
ford White? A.-I i lilnk In the lawyer's office— l
think in Mr. Hartridge 's office.
y.— The letters to you. were they not? A --Yes
Q.— Received by you throuKh th« mall? As— v- .
Q.— -They are our property, are they not? A.—
Q.-Now, have you a copy of the letter that you
sent to Stanford White from Boulogne? A.— No.
-ffiJW-tORK DAILY TRIBUTE.
Q.— Do you remember Its contents? A.— No.
Q.— Can't rememlicr anything about it? A.— : No.
q.— These letters that you gave to Mr. Harirlogo.
or that your husband save to Mr. Hartri.lpe. from
Stanford White to you. from what place riid you
I tfke them prior to giving them to your husoanu .
j A.— l do not r»^tne:nl>er. ■ ■<■ . .
i Q — Yen pave these letters from Stanford f.lto
tr. you to your husband, did you not? A.— ; es.
Q._ V you cavi* tlif-m to your husband— YOU
were not carrying thorn about your person with
you— you had "jmt them away somewhere, naon t
q.— Where ; were they? A.— l had them. „
Q.—Oarrjinß them about with you? A Ye*.
(3,-How many -were; there? A.— Fourteen.
S;_ How lons had you l.een carrying them anout
with you? A.— For a few minutes.
O— Prior to carrying them about with you. from
what .place did you "take them? A.-They were
% Q,—\vi\o Rave them to you? A.— I think Mr.
(j'-No- when you received the letters from Mr.
White what <U<l you do with them? A.— l gave
them to Mr. Thaw. ;" ..." .
o — Inrnedlatflv they were received? A— tea.
Q.— And those . ere Stanford White's letters to
sQ^-l-We're any of those letters earlier In date than
: q.— Now.' have you any letters of Stanford White
to you prior to your going abroad in 1903? A.— l >lo
not know.
Q.— You do not know? A.— No.
Q -Where were you when you received these let
ters from Stanford White which you gave to your
husband? A.— ln Paris.
Q.— You received tha-n through the main A.—
Q.-^Did you retain the envelopes as well as the
Jo^Havt' you^any letters of Stanford # White
earllor In date than l those fourteen letters of Stan
ford White to you— earlier in date than those four
teen which you say ara in Mr. Kartrldco^a posses
sion *
Mr Delmas— Do 1 understand tho witness to say
that they nre in tW- possession of Mr. Hartrldpe?
She said; she gave them to her husband.
Mr Jeromp li<r hußband ernve them to Mr.
Hartridpe eho testified, us I understand It.
T! • Witness— l say I can't tell
Q.— And where are those letters? A.— l aont
know. .
q —These letters you pay you Rave to your hus
band" nnd he gave to Mr." Hartrldge, nro fourteen
lettcrt?
The examination about the letters was very
Fearchinpr, but, on tho whole, unproductive. Mrs.
Thaw said she had left a trunk in Tarts in
which, Bhe thought, were letters.
Mr. Jerome then examined the witness" about
the story she told on the direct of White's
alleged attack. Mr. Jerome asked:
Q.— How Ion? were you unconscious at the 24th
street house?
Mr. Delmas— How can a person tell how long they
are unconscious?
Mr. Jerome— Let the witness testify, and not the
learned counsel.
Mr. Pelm;is-I Fubmlt thnt unconsciousness Is a
lack of consciousness, and the rju^stlon contradicts
itself. How can a person tell how long hs is In a
state of unconsciousness?
Mr. Jerome— A man knows when ho 13 put out
nnci when he wakes up.
By the Court Q.— ls there any way by which you
can determine the time? A.— Will you ask the
question again?
By Mr. Jerome: Q.— How long: were you uncon
scious at the 2lth street house? A. — [could not say.
Q.— What time did you get hack to your hotel?
A.— l don't know.
Q.— Was i: before or after midnight? A.— After
midnight.
Q. — Was it before or after daylight? A.— No; I
don't think fo.
Q.— You think It was before daylight? A.— Yes.
Q. The minutes of your testimony show that you
said that after returning home: "I don't remember
how 1 pot home, but hi took ma home, and I rat up
nil nignt, and he wont away and left me, and I
sat up all night." That Is correct, is It not? A —
Yeu.
Q. — What I mean to r>'lt<*rato th^rn Is that Fhe
fat up ;ill nlcht. Now. can you recollect that there
was a good I'Tiit of tho night still left, because you
Frit up ii 11 night. A.— Well. I did not ptf to ho(\
after lie got m« home.
Q.— "Hi» took me home and I sat up all night Ho
wont away nnd left m<\ arid I sat u[»all night." A —
Yes.
Q. -Xow. l«>t mo ns!: you how you met Mr.
Marks'' A.— Thro-ich Miss ICrowberger.
Q.— Where was It? A.— Here In New Y-nk.
Q.— What part of New York? A I don't re
member exactly; I think It might have be»!» at tho
theatre-.
Q. Well, before you met him aid you hi\ <« any
letters from Marks? A. — Yes.
Q.— How many? A.— Not more ....
!t w;in ■>!•.!» <>r two.
Cj. — What has become of those l»tt«»rs? A - I
don't know.
CJ — Hnw lonp is It since you have Fpcn them?
A.— l could not say.
Q. -Tb.it ■ In r.">o? A.— lt might have bee:> In
thf eaily j.nrt of 1901. I don't remember.
Q. — And up to that time your relations with your
mother had Leon friendly, had iIK-y w<f: ".\.~
Thoy bad.
O. — t'i> to thnt period th»'<> wns nothing vhlch
had come into your life to indicate to you i>r in.iko
you believe that your mother was willing to e^.-rl
ilce you fir a pecuniary consideration, was there?
A. No sir.
Q. — And i\nt even to-day do you have any puclj
Idea? A. No.
Mr. t like this ci
tion. Mr. Jerome argued thai I
ed in the hypol
put by I
■ ■ ■
Q.— Whatever Indiscretion or m!st:ik«« of Judg
ment may have seemed to have existed on yur
mother's part, acenrding to tho testimony you havo
given here, you never havo for n. moment thought
it anything else than un indiscretion or lack of
Judgment? A.— No, sir.
Q.— Now, what was In these letters from Tc<l
Marks? A.— l cannot glvo you tho entire contents
<.f them.
Q.— Weil, the substance of them? A.— The sub
stance of it was that he had seen my tihutonnii'h
In the newspaper an 1 would like to place mo on
the stage; It w;is something lik<> that.
Q.— Up to that time had you had any approaches
fn<m anyone, in regard to going on the Bt;iK"? A.—
N'<>.
Cj.— So that cume to you ns a new proposition?
A.— Yes.
Q.— And were there not more than two letters
fr^in Marks before you met him? A —l don't ro
member; I don't remirr.b.r r'-ullv more than or.f,
but
Q.— Before you mot Mr. Murks you had been In
formed that he was sitting in the druK store at
the corner from tlmo to tlm<> Bending; you letters?
A.— Yep.
<j.— Who gave you that piece of information? A.—
Mamma.
Q. — Did you know who Tod Marks wns at that
tlnio? A.— Not very well. I knew he was a the
atrical manager.
Q.— How did you learn that? A.- From a letter
that h« sent.
cj. — How lonft did Uils sending of letters from tha
drug i tore gw en until you met? A. I don't know.
Q.— But to tho b^ht of your recollection? A.—
Well, it was :i short time n ft.-r that I met him
cj.— l.'p to thut time the Idea of your b.-inx :i fa
nit.us actress !nd r.ot presented Itself? A.— Yes, it
had.
Q.— When did you conceive the Idea »f making a
famous aotress? A.— When I w is In Allegheny.
cj.— So that when you came ti« New York you
bad for several years entertained the ambition to
become a famous actress? A. — Y*-s.
Q.— So there wns nothing that teemed startlliis
at nil in Mr. Marks'u proposition? A.— Yes.
cj.-Ydm knew M • Mai V. was v theatrical man
ager? A.— l P'lppoeed no.
Q— When did you next f-'-e Ted Marks? How did
that meeting coma about? A. — I don't remember
exactly. I think I w;is with Miss Kroberger.
o.- Where? A.— l don't remember.
O.— Was It In a restaurant? A.— I don't think ho.
I don't remember of it being In a restaurant.
Q. — How many times have . ■'■: been in ii res
taurant with Mr. Marks? A.— The only time I re
member was this time, but since then I havo seen
lilpi in restaurants nnd to him.
Q.— That was on a Sunday nlKlu? A.— Well, I
won't say whether It was on Sunday nlnh'.
CJ.— What time did you : ■• i back fro that res
taurant that night? A.— l don't recall.
cj.— Had you been before In the habit nf going out
at nlifht alona to restaurants with men that you
had only nn-t once? A. — No.
Q.— That Is the first time thai you did that? A.—
Yes. sir.
Q.— Did you tell your mother when you pa me
back? A. -Yes.
(.}.— Did f-lif- reprove you? A.- Si,.- .li.i
Q.— Slie warned you of th<» Impropriety <>f It? A.
— No, she told me 1 bad no business to j»u until I
asked her, and she did not want me to go with this
girl, because; she was I '•.- 1 ruck.
Q— She made no objection to your going then,
£* I understand, with n man thai you only ni"t
once. Was there no other polnl to the objection?
A.— l don't remember. There mljzht have been.
'.■ Going with this girl, was that tim main ob
jection? A.— Yen.
Q— Was ■ he Impropriety p.ilnt"d out to you by
your mother? A. Well, I don't exactly know. She
said 1 had no busings to p<> until ! asked her first,
end l ought not go out without her, and sho said
this !_; ! r 1 was very nice, but Bhe was stagestruck.
cj.— At '!, ' time were you acquainted with Fran?
ices I?»lmont? A. — No.
Q ■ir Rdnn Goodrich? A.— No.
CJ.— Or James A. Garland? A.—
Mr. Jerome referred to a "Mr. Hobby." who
liv^d at the West ■_'"-M street house. He tried to
Infer a more extended friendship between the
witness and Hobby than was acknowledged,
Mrs. Thaw Insisting it was only a casual ac
quaintance, and the subject was quickly
dropped. Mr. Jerome then referred to the 'ot
ter of Introduction to Fisher, of Fisher & RUey,
of "Florodora," which Marks gave to Evelyn
Nesblt. In this connection he mentioned George
Lederer'B name. Mr. Jerome asked:
Q— What was thnt letter about -Thai was
about my Ketlir.? .i position with "Florodora "
Q.— What did that •■■•- Bi y? A.— It Just paid ho
wanted us to go vi.d see Mr. Fisher, the manager
of "Florodora.
Q.— Who was putting on the attraction? A —
Fisher & Hyley.
Q.— ln what theatre? A.— Casino Theatre.
Q .- -Who then had control of the Casino Theatre?
Well, l don't krow who had It, la fact.
Q.— Didn't you see Mr. Lielerer? A.— Well, I
might have.
Q. — Didn't you understand who had control of
tha theatre? Don't you know? A.— l think It was
the Sire Brothers. I won't be sure.
Q.— Now think again. Don't you recollect, when
>">u were la th« cast, who had control of. It? Don't
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you know II was George T^ederer? A.— No.
" Q >:■ v< r heard of George Lederer In connection
with it? A.— No. _. , , ,
cj.— Did Marks givo you a letter to Fishei . A.—
■y, g
CJ.'— Did you take It to Fisher? A.— Yes.
CJ. — Were you alone? a No. .
«..i What time oi diy or night was It? A.— in
;:.•• daytime. ," . ... , ,
Q.— Where did you take it to him? A.— To his
0 1 Ti c o
cj. Where was that? A— At the Cash] i TK'atre.
Q._What took place between you and Fisher. A.—
Well we came in and we had to wait a little
while. Then Mr. Fisher sent- for us to come m
his office, and mamma told him I wanted to go
on the Btage and showed him this letter from Mr.
Marks
Q. Your mother accompanied you when you
went there? A.— Yes. „
Q.— What was in the letter? A.-I don t re
member every word. He i ltd 1 looked to > young.
He- paid he would like very much to take me, but
the (Jerry Society would not let him.
CJ.--IS that all? A.— Well, he didn't like to take
bo you; a girl, and It was Impossible— that no
was not running a baby farm. Then ho said he
would take us up to see the rehearsal, nnd we
went up another flight of stairs and we saw tho
rehearsal. Then Mr. Fisher called tho stage man
l"P Q. r -Wi',at happened then? A. -He asked if -I
could dancei and I said "Yes." and he wanted to
know If 1 could play the piano. -.
CJ- Was this the time- when "Florodoi nr?t was
running. ' A. -Well, it had been running son time
Q— Well then, what happened then? A.— Ho said
he would like very much to have n •• go In the cast,
and I said-then Mr. Fisher talked with mamma,
and he said If I was in the play sha would have to
como to the theatre for me. Mr. Fisher would n>n
be refponslblo for mo. He. said ha positively would
q!_Go on; anything more? A. -And ho said !t
was nil rteht for me to come to the dressing room
In tho daytime and mamma could conn witn me at
night that thero wero men hanging around tho
stage door and sho would have to como r.nd take
n r. home, so it was agreed I should go to tha re
hearsal. „ „ .
Then you went In) the cast? A.— ies. sir.
Q.— As ono of the chorus? A.— Yes, sir.
y —When you finally, nfter this perioa of re
hearsals, entered the cast, about what time of the
year wua that? A.— That was in the early summer,
about June.
—At that tlir.o you had .... . ndant'
A. -No.
Q.— Nor had you m*t AVlsltr? A.— No.
Q.— How long were you In the show? A.— l was
in th- re until alter New Year's. 1002, until " moved
up to th" New York Theatre.
'■ ' — Did ! understand you to p-iv from Jure. ir*U.
all thro'ißh I>>l. you wero with "Fiorodora"? A —
Yec ; tb«>n I hid a week's vacation.
Q.— When wns that? a.— That was during Octo
ber; eve girl was given a vacation.
Q.— Wvre. you playing in "Fiorodora" when you
mr-t him? A.— No: • Just left.
q._ Now, while, you were playing in I'Florodora"
did your imtlier attend every nl^ht with you— come
every night to bring you home? A.— Yes. until I
met Mr. White.
Q.I- When did you meet him? A.— l m«t him dur
ing tV Biiniiiiir.
Q.— Who introduced you to him? A.— Edna Oood
rk-'.i.
Where did you first meet Edna Goodrich?
A. -In tho theatre.
Q.— Wns sh" In tho phy? A. P!;e w:is.
<j. — Were you on friendly rerms with her? A —
Yee.
(j_lii,^ you po to nr;y places rf entertainment
with her? A.— No. rnt beforo s!ir> Introduced me
to Mr. White.
Q.— After the t!m<» >ou had m«t White you hnd
been In th" cast; In thn show Itself, about how
long? A— I think a month. I couldn't srvy posi
tively.
Q.~ And hnd you b<v>n out anywhere during that
month, pvrsiimjß, after th«» f)iow? A. — I had boon,
yes. I hud been out sum".
A l.'irK^ number of nu^Mnns wer» n?ik^d the
Witness RDOUt her fil»-ndeh!i> with James A Oar
lnnd. th« yachtsman, who died last year. Mr. Je
rome nsken:
Q. — Dbi Mr. <inrl;'.nd ever write you nny letters?
A.-I thlr.k so.
Q.-Dld you presorvo them? A.— No I don't
know. Most of them were wrlttfii to mnnnna.
Q —DM ymi ever writi< him any letters? A.— l
don't remember.
cj— You have no recollection of that? a— l might
have: it Ih barely possible.
Q.— Your mother was not very well pleased with
Mr. Garland's attentions, wns she? A —No.
Q. -You had no power over your mother on that
subject? A --No. not thai I rnmemher.
cj. — Mr. Oarland was a married man? A.— Yes.
sir.
Q.— With n divorce cape then pending? A.— Weil.
I didn't kr.ow that.
Q.-Dld you k<> <>ff on his yacht? A.-I might
have, yes, sir.
Q.— How many times? A.— l don't remember.
Q.— On these yachting trips your mother was not
pleased, was she? A - -Yes.
Q.— Sho was? A. — Yes.

■ •
reading Mr. ,
; t true that In thi ■■virmi;
of 1901. so fai
' - nn
i
r for a
con
: „
'!..< fol-
Mr. Drln Is I
■ • |
I
Mi J I the i
fm m I ■ •
Mr .
:
Mr. J<
■ v ant me to answer that
Mi |), >•
■ -V. ',"" .' ; ' s " ' ' ■ •er !■
Mr 1 1, liuae 1 ■
:
Mr. Jerome then continued the examination.
we^T^.iV'"' trilc »'»* r «n i the spring Of 1901 you
were K«-itii«K \e:y unruly in your relations with
A°-No ' I "" 1 y ° ur ™?»her ■tllljrtick Jfy you?
-' I? li not true that there was then „ man In
New York who was applying for a ,i , : ... ",,."
A. Qarlunil " nn.J y ;" ir '"V" 1^ 1 ' was constantly ' quar
de«d ' about llla "Uentiomi? A.-N... |m
" That Is not true? A:-No. sir.
W.- " la not true '•'■"• you nnd your mother -v..-..
annoyed dreadfully by Mr. Garland? A -n r Mr
vel 7t lH v U""^ tri1 /.' |.i ial i> 0H would »•-. off'onMhn
mean aTone? (';"1;""l( ' ; " 1; ""l on Saturday? A.-You
cj— No. I menn with your mother" a -Yes
-During thla V--' 1 '" 1 y:i " "" ll • v " ur mother, and
Mi. (..itiaiid Pen" most of • our Sundays on Mr
(.arhmd's yacht, did you ll( ,t? A._ Not Vo^'of
Q.— A considerable part of them? A — Wrii ■ ,
si&s^ara »•■ didn't oall the t^-
Ins , N ''ri li:: ' !!l -.. !l '^ l»rio<l thut you were play.
1.. <i. •:•• r ..i all? a :..' ■ ■
cj-yid you know him evan by sight? a —He
tlmi^ A x.' '"'" Jack J!arr > moi ° during that
A^S? wS m^^rK^ D "rymoro?
Q.— When w;is that? A.— la 1902
. •tt~ N ;' v --, "'• '" th ' s "mo that you went Into the
nuae ■-•' X| -><- you had " eVer P o " 4 '" the
„'',."'■ \-'1 11^,!': " 1 a " y ° aßt m **» ° f you or nu<J «
la^Tinide^V^'o" "" ° f IWI hay. .ucb a
_Q.— '"' you know a Mr. Wells, a sculptor? A.—
'->■ Never bear of him fore? A —Never
When did y ° v go to Dakota? A.-In'lDOi, In
the simiiiic! . '• "'
Q.— How long did your acquaintance with Mr
Garland continue? A.— Not very long.
y.— Well, how long— ail through 1901? A —No
,'* xv .' !i - when (lid '■ '■'■' A "ceased when
I met Stanford White.
Q— And thnt was when? A.— That was in the
summer if 1901.
CJ— What portion of the summer? Can you fix the
dat*? A.- I think it was in Aua iat*>i :■ July
Q.— And It ceased then abruptly? A — Yt.s'
hT~£! the time II ceased where were you then
living? A.- At the Audubon. ' n
Q.— ls It true that when you were living at the
Audubon Mr. Garland -Mm' to be 11 great annoy
ance, so that your ir.ntb.er hud to get the telephone
girl not to send his cards up? A.— l never heard of
that.
PILES CURED IN « TO 14 DAYS.
PAZO OINTMENT Is guaranteed to cur« any case of
Itching- Blind. Bleeding or Protruding Pile* lit i to 14
days or money refunded. 60e.
Q.— And duritiK this period i m*t White
did your m for you every night? A —
Yes.
T ■ the "Florodor i"? A T< a
Q And during that period <ll>i you at any t!mp,
any night - r's, Jm-k's or liurns's? A.—
' ; ' White?
g y.-s A. I went I Re I r's one night with
I Mi ,
<^ Is that the only Umi '-\ Tl it Is I
■ can remember before I met Mr. WI ••
o Did your brother Howard come for yo
: ■ at the theatre? A. l think ho did ■
Q A;.r| when he came for :-"'i '-■> the theatre
did yo . A. Tea.
Q v.ii are familiar with I ndwrltlng of
brother, are you not? A.
q 1 show you now which I
have marked for Identification, f ask you
• .i ■ on thut Is th ■ slgi
A. I think so.
Mrs. Thaw continued on the witness s 1
the afternoon. There wore a number of •
In court. Justice Hirschberg, of the Appellate
Division, Second l^^-.irfi.
FitaGerald. Other visitors were Deputy At
torney Genera] William A. i»- Ford and Richard
Hazleton and T. M Xi ttle, Irish M imben of
ment
Mr. Jerome began by having a number of
photographs Identified by the witness. Most of
them, she Bald, were taken at the East 233
street studio. Mr. Jerome then produced a bun
dle of checks. Mr?. Thaw Identified seven of
them ns being Indorsed by her, five of them by
her mother and one Indorsed In r.n unidentified
hand. The checks showed that the witness and
her mother wore living at the Hotel Wellington
when the checks were received. They were sent
weekly, and ranged from §3^ to $.">0 each. They
wero dated from July 1, V.MrJ, to October 1,
1902, and were all drawn on th» Mercantile
Trust Company. This was only a few weeks
after the day Mrs. Thaw paid White had mal
treated her. Mr Jerome then asked:
Q._Who was furnishing that money? A.—Stan
ford White. . , ..,
<J —It ide no Impression on your m:n:l it a.i?
A.— No, I thought very little about it.
Q._You pot these checks mil Indorsed tnem,
didn't you? A. -I did.
o— Every time that you ceased to play, lost your
engagement, did you not address a letter to t.ie
Mercantile Trust I'ompanjf In this city, or inform
Mr Hartnett. Stanford White's secretary, that you
were r.»t playing? A.— Well, I canno^answer tlvit
question, because you say every time I lost my
position. -
CJ— I mean every time that you wero not acting,
during those weeks that you were not acting dur
ing li": 1 . was not Stanford White paying you $2.. a
week? A.— l think bo.
The District Attorney offered a second bundle
of checks, extending from January IT to April
•_U of tho same year. whl< h were indorsed by
Evelyn Nesblt. Then he asked:
O — Wer« you ever Informed on or about •Deeenv
bt>r 31, 190 V. or tha Ist of January. V>'r2, that a o>n
slderable pimi of money, to wit: i).>- suns of J1.350,
bad been deposited In the Mercantile Trust Com
pany of this city, with instructions that upon your
written application they were t<> send you $::, a
week— that is. the company— from the Ist of J-m
uary. ''■•-• fl< l he Ist of January. \o>\\, on th« under
standing that your application for money out of
this fund would only V.> made when you were not
playing or working, and that this fund shouH be
applied only to the purpose of taking th* place <>*
your reßular salary when you were not wonting.
or as an emergency fund in case a sickness cc
curred?

• ■
te. but 1

Mr. J ' '
Dear Sir: ■ hive not been working the last
wi-.-k and this, so will you kindly send my money
at once. Very sincerely. ■
EVELYN NESBIT.
A second l'-tt. r, written by Mrs. Thaw, also
asking for money, was offered in evidence. It
read:
IVar Sir: I havo stopped playing this week, and
wish you would begin t.. scud the {25 a week, be
ginning this Friday coming, until 1 g»'t another
position. Very truly.
EVELYN NESBIT.
Then Mr. Jerome asked the witness If sflie had
not written the letter, nnd received tho reply:
"1 think it was dictated by Stanford White."
Q.— You think this letter was probably written
by you nt the dictation of Stanford White? A -
Yes. It do«-s not sound l:ki* the way I would write
ti b-ttrr.
(j._li,, you think Exhibit 6. which says:
"Dear Sir: 1 have not btxn working all last week
nnd this, so will you kindly send the money at
on,-.-. Very sln.er.ly yours. EVELYN NE3BIT."
was iilso "written at ti.r dictation of Stanford
Whit'? A— l don't think !*>.
'.' — How Is it you aro so strongly i>f the Impws
i-lon that Exhibit l'> was written at tha dictation
of Stanford White and Exhibit 6 was r.'«t? A.—
Hecuuse every bit of th<- money matters had ti> do
with Stanford White. H« would dictate every let
ter tUat I or my mother would have to writ'-.
Apparently much astonished nt t::«- testimony,
Mr. Jerome went on a new track at thi3 point
and asked:
q —Did you think that Stanford White toi.i you
the truth when he i;i substance said that all women
w'.-iv bad. nnd they simply wero ablu to conceal if
and onileavored to conceal it— those that were iu>:
round out? A. -I did.
6. - You were past sixteen? A.— I was past sixte. n.
v - And 111 the tim* Stanford \Vhit« dlctateU '•'
you this People's Exhibit No. 1" were you still
laboring under the belief that nil women were prac
tically unchasje, but cleverly concealed! It? A.— Yes,
. li.— And when first dM you Bin to doubt thai
proposition? A.— When 1 went abroad, In Un>3.
Q.— So, until you went abroad with • mother
In 1903. v< you still were believing that all women
that yoncame In contact with were unchaste, but
were simply clever in concealing it? A. — I did.
Cj.— So that, when you told your husband this
tali-, this story — I mean no offence In the way I
« haiv.i-lerlre It— the narration which you nay you
made to your husband In Purls in 1903 - In June, woa
it. A. -Yes, sir.
Q.— But vi» to thai ntuhf thnt you told this story
to your husband in Paris. In 1903. through the year
1!*>1 ami through the year 1902 md up to i n.it time -
how old wen you then? A.— l think 1 must have
been eighteen.
U. — And you were born what year? A.— ISS4.
cj.— Nineteen to eighteen and a half. And until
you were eighteen and a half years of age you
were (irmly Impressed with the belief that tha
women thai you were dealing and associating
with, that nil women, wer» unchaste, only sum
were unfortunate enough to havo been found out?
A.— Yes.
Have you read any works of Action tn your
lifo? A.— Yes, sir.
Cj— What had you read prior to that time In 190 ST
A.— Do you want in.- la name every book I ever
read.
cj.— Nil, i didn't iisi< you that, in a general way,
hud you read any of Dickens? A.— Yes
i) Had you nail any of Scott? A.— No.
cj.— Had you ready anything of Ibsen? A. — No.
y.— H id you hud any kind of Instruction in the
Scriptures, tiu> Hlblo. A. — Slightly.
CJ.— Had you t..->-!i to church at all? A.— Sllichtly.
cj.— Have you been to Sunday school? A. —
Slightly.
Q.— Of what rfllfcloua denominations were you?
A.— Well. 1 don't know. 1 think 1 went to a Meth
odist Episcopal church, nnd once in a while to the
Presbyterian.
Q.— Did you, in rejecting Thaw in Paris that
night lit June, have any reason for rejecting htm
other than your own unworthlness? A. —No sir.
Mr. Jerome asked several questions about the
weather, the day of the week and the day of
the month on which the, alleged offence oc
curred, none of which Mrs. Thaw could remem
ber.
The witness told about meeting Abraham
Hummel on the last Sunday in December, l'.«>4.
at a benefit concert. She denied that she was
Hummel's guest, saying sho sat at the same
table with him. as her escort was there. They
drank champagne.
Mrs. Thaw will continue on the cross-examina
tion to-day. Mr. Jerome will take at least all
of to-day. It is probable that there will bo
no session of court to-morrow, owing to the
holiday, adjournment being taken to-night until
Monday.
Whether Winter or Spring
weather to-morrow — we've your holi
day clothes.
For man or hoy; in town or
country.
To-day — for we're closed to-mor
row.
Rogers, Peet & Company,
Three Broadway Stores.
258 £42 1250
at at «
Warren st. 13th st. 32nd tt.
,_ — _ 1 .
LJ SjT There is a plain reason for the quick
Loaf success of this delicious Bread.
Qq Health Food Co.. 61 sth Ay., N. Y.
It is the best that money can buy jLjj p
this is true also of wholesome Rolis
81 AU. Prospect Ay.. Newark. 20c doZ.
J^VER rJPPLUXCE
jfj fir com fart and conven
ience in the Modern
Bath-room may be found at
the nnv shr.v-rooms of the
Mejer-Sniffen Co., Makers
and Importers of Fire Plumbing
Fixtures, II West j6th St.
EDUCATOR
CRACKERS
4 Headquarters fo* N»- * Vr. t
325 Madtson Ays., near 42:t St.
IMPROVED
Croup Kettle
Cor.PtructP'l according to directions of an
eminent physician.
Jlili ay. 1 for si'-J ! y
jEWISe^(?ON6EP^
1. -• an.l 1 >-' «>«t 4:1 Strict,
and 133 -'I 4t*t St.. New York.
SUBSIDY BILL'S CHANCE.
Ma?/ Be Taken Up at Xight Sessions
of the House.
[Frcm TJ-- Tr:bur.» !V-r-?»u.]
Washington. Feb. JO. — Speaker Cannon has la!l
down the lines on whlc'o the Shipping bin QS3t
pass, if at aU. The friends rf the measure must
hold a Quorum of t!;t> Committee of the Whole for
three night se^ion.-;. .:: Thursday, Friday and
Saturday. If thty succe^a in doing this the Speak
ct will Bivo them one <:.iy. from 10 a. m. to 5 r>- n:..
tu debate tho measure under th-_' five-minute tula.
a:ul at the latter l:our too vota will I"' 1 t.ik-^:;. A
furtfcej provision of tha s^e.ilier's edict was that
the night sessions wouM te held only aftfi a
hundred signatures had been sign.-d to a, peiitioa
nskn-.K for them. At a Lite hour t'.ils evenins Ilep
resentativa Watson, the Republican w!;!p, had ob
tained 110 names to vh»; petition asfetng for th»
evenins sessions. It la irobdbla that the day for
final uebato on the shipping measure^ shoulu its
frlondd succeed in holding a quorum in the r.est
three evenings, v.i'l be WednesOay < ' r.e\t wc-'.c.
It is tliu present intention of the House leader*
to take uj the Esch Railway Hours bill to-niorro 1 *
under a ru'.o. to follow that with the Sv.n.iry Civil
Mil. an.l ii with the General Deficiency bill, all uf
which. It is expected, will take precedenca of t»e
Shipping »>;11.
Friends .>; the l>:ll sti'.i lock for favorable action
In ta- House ;Lt. ihts session, although tney ex
pect thai before it receives ti:e approval ot that
body it will lose one more or' its provisions, sa
that when it i.-> returned to th?' Senate it wQI b<»
hard!\ recognizable l>y Us authors. Opposition ia
the }'lui;so to suV.sidliiiiK ti.<3 il'-v rur.:ilng from tk*
North Puciftc to j.ip^u. China and Ihe Philippines
Is so strong that it is ;i Indited that it irn:;: l>a
stricken from the measure to secure it^ passago.
The ;>UI ii^ reporteU by ttie House coramUta*
provi«l«s subsidies us follows: t\>t- a lino from t!i<*
Atlantic v'oust to Braxil, 16-knoi steamers, montnlj?
service. $.{i\>.'»»>; Atlantic Coast to Argentina, li
knot steamers, monthly service, WOO»C<H>; Gulf Coast
ti> Isthmus of l'ur.auia. 14-kuut steamers, forini':^'.-
Iy service, $7.".."m'; Pacittc Coast t«> Istbmua of t*;in
win. i. IVru and I'liiii. l«-ki:ot steamers, monthly
service, |3(X>.{ | 00; Pacttic Coast, l>y way of HawaJ^
to Japan, China and the Philippines, lj-kr.ot steam
era, monthly service, j:C".i«"i; North Pacific Coast
to Japan. China and the. Philippines, l&-knot steam
ers, monthly service, J3jo.txo: Pacific Coast w
Samoa and Australia; 16-knoi steamers*. — : total,
Sl.TT.V*'*. These. sulisiUies will bo «ioublcil wtta
double service.
The Samoa and Australia line now receives a
subsidy of S-isJ.UH) for a service of one boat *.n three
weeks, and will receive an additional {Jimavv for »
fortnightly service.
None of the proposed lines to South America is In
existence. They will have to be created from the
beginning', and will require ;i new Beet of sh'.pa.
Al out one-half «>f thirteen or fourteen si-.i^s re
qulred for the Japan-China lines are running ia
connection wij'i the railroads reaching San Fran
cisco und Puget Sound. The iine to AustraU33iai
which will receive increased compensation. :m*
lias three steamships, and will build one or m^f*
If the Mil passes. Altogether it is estimated that
this measure, if enacted as it now stands, will call
for tho construction of from twenty-five to thirty
larKfl Bteament. all but two of at least sixteen
knots speed. These vessels, as existing law re
o.uin-3. would have t.» be built on designs approved
by the Navy Dei>artment.
The bill j:s report'-.', eliminates entirely th*> feat
lire of subventions t<> cargo vessels i.i the forelxn
tnide as trained hy the Merchant Marine Commis
sion, but the provision for h naval reserve of pteuea
officers and n\« n of th- merchant marine ia re
tained. Th- Senate will doubt lesa acquiesce In ar.y
measure the House adopts.
Free from Fluctuation
Wouldn't you like to have a fund
which is secure no matter what
happens in the financial world?
A First Mortgage on New York
City real estate bearing this com
pany's guarantee is as stable as the
ground on which it is based. It is
non-fluctuating, non-taxable and
nets 4S per cent. We assume, all
car? and risk.
No investor Juts ever lost a dollar.
Capital & Surplus, $5.000.00 a
176 Broad way. Now York.
176 Remaen St.. Brooklyn.
250 Fulton St.. Jamaica.

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