New-York tribune. [volume], February 20, 1920, Page 5, Image 5

About New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924

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Hillquit Would
Back Ballots
With Bullets
Counsel for Five Ousted
Assemblymen Says Time
jflay Come When Masses
Will 'Do a Little Shooting'
Condemns Supreme Court
Calls Conviction of Debs
Unjust, but Hesitates to
Approve His Utterances
from a Staff Correspondent
ALBANY, Feb. 19.?Morris Hillquit,
'csder of the Socialist party, under
?cross-examination to-day before the
Assenfbly Judiciary Committee, de?
clared that in the event the Socialists
cbtained a majority in thiB country
thev might be forced to "supplement
their political action by a little shoot
isg-"
This statement was made In explana?
tion of a speech made by Victor Ber?
ber, the Socialist Congressman from
Milwaukee, who is out on bail pending
appeal from conviction of violation of
the espionage act. In this speech, made
st the Socialist National Convention of
1908. Berger said:
"I have fceard it pleaded many a time
right in our own meetings, by speakers
that come to our meetings, that the
only salvation for the proletariat of
America is direct action, that the bal
i Jot box is simply a humbug. Now, I don't
know how this question is going to be
solved. I have no doubt that in the
last analysis we must shoot, and when
it comes to shooting Wisconsin will be
there. We always make good.
Direct Action?Some Day
"We are to have a political party.
And we want to keep out of the party
everybody who is not in harmony with
our main principles and who is op?
posed to the fundamental idea of the
aarty, which means the ballot box. In
order to be able to shoot, even, some
?ay, we must have the powers of the
political government in our hands, at
icast to a great extent. I want that
?inderstcod. So everybody who is talk?
ing to you about direct action and so
Ott and about political action being a
humbug:, is your enemy to-day, because
he keeps you from getting the powers
of political iTOvernment."
Martin Conboy, of counsel to the
prosecution, after reading this speech
of Berger, received a lengthy interpre?
tation of it from Hillquit, who said:
"Now then, it is r.ot at all impos?
sible that v.;;en you se.y in any country,
over, in this country, the majority of I
?he people will bo -? ^idy to introduce ;
abatan! I i form and take away the ;
privileges fro t! ? profiteering class ?
by constitu? o il legal methods, those,
self-sar.'.p profiteering interests will ?
;ake offens and will try io play some
?.ricks upon the people, and in that i
case i'. is possible as a matter of
prophecy, not as a matter of program, j
is far as we are concerned, that the !
beople of this country will be com- i
pelled to supplement their political ac- I
-ion by a little shooting; and Victor |
3erger says that political action, and j
that is the political power which we'
can acquire, cr the advantage vhich
thefpoople will acquire, will help them
?.o gaiu, or maintain thel? victory!
tad I ; ? a added would also
rat down oi ?Lderably any bioori
ihed at imp ?(! l>\ unlawful or lawless
privilege : noriticF. That is the1
seanin? of tl statement of Victor |
Berg"!."
V.'r.en (c: Ley 'pressed the witness
:c admit that other minds could place
a diff?re:;', construction on it, Hillquit
modestly replied:
Thinks He Is Best Judge
"Whatever inference others may
iinw. I think they would do well in
this particular case to defer?if I say
it myself to my superior facilities for j
forming a graenl on that particular
.....??
ten a year later by
Bergei am pi .????: the Socialist
,'"-:?- was ???<*'. to the witness,
a it the i ' a ul ee Socialist *;\'d:
"Ir. view ol : ? pluto? ratic lawmak- ,
tog of the present day, it is caay to i
nredict that the safety and hope of
this country will finally lie in one direc
'ion only, that of a vioient and bloody
revolution.
"Therefore, I say, each of the 000,000
Socialist voters and of the 2,000.000
*orkingmtn who instinctively inclint
our way, should, besides doing mucl
reading and still more thinking, alsr
have a good rifle and the necessary
founds of ammunition in his home and
? prepared to back up his ballot with
his bullet?, if necessary.
"I predict that a large part of the
capitalist class will be wiped out for
much smaller things than the settling
J?? Kreat social question.
t"That before any settlement is possi
Me, mo?t of the plutocratic class, to
'.?ether with the politicians, will have
?? disappear as completely as the
?ndal lords and their retinues dis
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"That cannot be done by tho ballot
or by only the ballot.
"Tho ballot may not count for much
in a pinch. And in order to bo,pre?
pared for all emergencies Socialists
and workingmen ?Jhould make it their
duty to have rifles and tho necessary
rounds #of ammunition at tboir homes
and be prepared to back up their bal?
lots with their bullets if necessary."
In like manner Hillquit interpreted
this Borger document, and when under
tho Are of Assemblyman Charles M.
Harrington, of Clinton, Hillquit con?
ceded it was "rather somewhat unfor?
tunately worded" and "that some of the
expressions are altogether too strong
for the meaning which they carry and
intended to carry."
Defends Debs
This defense of Borger was later
followed by a defense of Eugene V,
Debs, who is now rounding out the
first year of a twenty-year term foi
violation of the espionage act.
Hillquit said he believed Debs nad
not done anything to warrant his con?
viction, and said if he had his way
Debs would bo the Socialist candidate
for President this fall.
Arthur E. Sutherland, who waj
cross-examining Hillquit, after bring
lng out that the United States Su
premo Court had reaffirmed Debs'!
conviction, asked :
"Now, Mr. Hillquit, let me under
stand you right. Do you mean to sa;
! that you doubt that Mr. Debs sai<
things and did things for the sayini
and doing of which he was convicted
is that it?"
"He was convicted only for sayini
things, not for doing things," repliei
Hillquit. "I don't for a moment doub
he said the things he is charged wit!
having said. I do not for a momen
believe that he said anything with th
intent to obstruct recruiting or enlist
ment, or with any criminal intent o
any kind."
"Now, do you uphold and approve a
a leader of the Socialist party th
words that Mr. Debs pronounced, an
for which ho was convicted?"
"I haven't got his complete speec
before me; I have not got every wor
before me. I do not want to commi
the party in this general way to ever
statement. I will say. as a whole,
read his speech at the time and my irV
pression was that it was a pei
fectly innocent, honest expression c
opposition to war for very good an
patriotic motives; that it was not ii
tended in any way to obstruct recrui
ing or enlis'c?ig or obstruct the actui
military operations of this country."
"Have you any respect at all for tl
decision of the tribunal to the coi
trary?"
"I have the respect to this effec
That I know that it is final and bindir
and in practice will go. I do not ha'
respect in the sense of believing th
it is just, impartial and well reason?
out. ' I think, on the contrary, the d
cisi?n of the United States Suprer
Court in the Debs case is one of whii
neither the court nor the country w
be proud in the future."
Hillquit Hesitates
"Mr. Hillquist, do you wish to be u
derstood as saying now yourself th
you approve of the word3 spoken
Mr. Debs, for which he was convicted
"Are you trying to get me a litl
conviction also, judge?"
"No, sir, I hr.ve no such intention.1
protested Sutherland. "1 ask y
whether you approve of the langua
and the sentiment expressed by j
Debs, for which he was prosecuted a
convicted ?"
At this moment Seymour Stedman,
counsel to the defense, jumped exc
edly to his feet. Hillquit saw him, a
swinging round in his chair <
claimed:
"Seymour, don't try to save me!"
"Oh, Mr. Hillquit is well aMe to t?
care of himself," said Chairman Lo
M. Martin. Stedman sat down.
Then Hillquit made this reply:
''I have stated very definitely, jud
1 am not in a position to indorse evi
word, or everv phrase contained in t
speech just because I ?lo not have
before me now. If you draw my att
tion to any particular part, I will
you very definitely. As a rule I ft
indorsed his statements and sentime
on the subject of the war, as expresi
I suppose, in that speech and ot
speeches."
Hillquit, after being on tho stand
three days, was excused a little bel
6 o'clock.
Then tho defense put on its sec
witness, Otto Branstettcr, of Chici
national secretary of the Socia
party of America. He testified he
been a Socialist for sixteen years; 1
ht1 was American-born, and his anc
ors on both sides were born hero
four generations back.
Union League
Upholds Ouster
Of Socialists
Despite Hughes' s Memorial,
Club Approves Assembly
Action in Depriving Five
Members of Their Seats
Guthrie Report Adopted
Defenders of the Accused
Legislators Condemned ;
Favor 'Red' Deportations
The Union League Club expressed
its approval at a meeting last night of
the deportation of alien radicals and
of the proceedings against the Social?
ist Assemblymen, although Charles E.
Hughes and other members had ex?
pressed opposite views in printed mem?
orials. Both in the report of the Com?
mittee on Political Reform and in a
speech made by William D. Guthrie at
the meeting, credit for the deporta?
tions was claimed for the Union League
Club. The following resolution was
adopted:
"That the report of the Committee
on Political Reform, dated February
12, relating to the recent deportation
by the national government of danger?
ous aliens and to the suspenson by the
New York State Assembly of the five
Socalsts elected as members pending
inquiry as to their qualifications, bs
ana is hereby, approved by this club
and that copies of the said report and
this resolution, as well as the remarks
at this meeting of the chairman of that
committee (Mr. Guthrie) be sent to
the Attorney General of the United
States, the Secretary of Labor and to
the members of the New "York Assem- ?
bly and otherwise distributed as the
officers of the club or committee may
direct."
Declares Party on Trial
The committee on political wsform de?
clared boldly in its report that the So?
cialist party was on trial in the persons
of five Assemblymen and this point was
emphasized by Mr. Guthrie in his re?
marks.
"We are admonished by the defenders
of these Socialists," ho said, "that last
year in this city the Socialists cast for
their candidate for President of the
Board of Aldermen as many as 126,365
votes, or 13Vfe per cent of the total vote
cast. And it is intimated that it is a
very serious, if not dangerous, thing to ?
disfranchise such a large body of voters
by refusing to seat its elected repre?
sentatives. Let us pause and reflect,
upon what this argument really means
and where it wil Head us,
"Does it not mean, if it means any?
thing, that the constitutions of both
state and nation should be disregarded
in order to accommodate disloyal and
revolutionary voters and seat their !
representatives because these voter*I
are numerous? Does it not emphasize j
the truth of the contention of the re-j
sponsible leaders of the Assembly at t
Albany that what was negligible in the ?
past is no longer so? Twenty years
ago, in 1901, the Socialist vote for ;
Mayor of tho City of New York was \
16,047, or about 3 per cent of the total. I
In 1917, during the war, when Hillquit
ran for Mayor on a thinly disguised
anti-war and disloyal platform, the
Socialists cast 144,135 votes, or 28 per
cent of the whole.
"It seems to me that it must tic j
obvious to all unprejudiced observers ,
that the great increase in the Social?
ist vote is not only a warning, but a
summons to defend our institutions ;
before it is too.late. It seems to me
that the American temperament has
become woefully degraded if tho mero
magnitude of the menace to our insti?
tutions should make us quail before
the danger and compromise with revo?
lution for the sake of present peace.
Would Not Conciliate
"Again it is said by the champions
of the five Socialiste in the printed
argument filed with tho Judiciary
Committeo of the Assembly that:
" 'No better weapon can be given to
them than the crown of martyrdom.
The very evils that aro feared and
that are sought to be counteracted by
the resolution pursuant to which the
respondents have been suspended will
bo precipitated bv the action taken.'
"If this means anything, it means
that revolutionary movements must be
suffered and tolerated and the Consti
tutiqn disregarded for fear of what?
It implies a threat of force. We must
suffer and tolerate and conciliate and
appease theso Socialists. We must per?
mit them to write tho laws which we
are to obey. We must allow them to
undermine our institutions unchecked,
unscourged, uninterrupted, because,
forsooth, we muy irrit?t?, them and
thereby precipitate tho destruction and
violence and bloodshed for which they
have been and are now preparing and
plotting."
, -.-.
Defends 'Dry9 Law
In U. S. Fight on
Rhode Island Suit
Every State Called Party to
Agreement to Uphold Con?
stitutional Amendments,
Whether 'Slight or Grave'
WASHINGTON, Feb. 19.?Validity of
the Federal prohibition constitutional
amendment was defended in a brief
filed in tho Supremo Court to-day by
Solicitor General King in support of
motions made by the government for
the dismissal of original proceedings
instituted by Rhode Island to test the
amendment and enjoin its enforcement.
Arguments on the motion are expected
to be heard next month.
"The control or the prohibition of
?the liquor traffic," the brief said, "is
! now conceded to be a legitimate gov
! emmental function. It/:annot now be
maintained, as a legal prohibition, that
such governmental regulation or pro?
hibition unconstitutionally infringes
the rights of the individual. The right |
to prohibit such traffic was a part of !
the governmental powers which the
states had when they framed the Con?
stitution of the United States. It is part ?
of the powers which the states at that |
time reserved to themselves, but it is ;
no more sacred than any power then I
reserved. |
"The right of Congress to submit
amendments cannot depend upon
whether the proposed change is slight
or grave. Every state in the Union
is a party to the agreement that what- !
ever change in the Constitution is pro- '
posed by Congress as prescribed and
is adopted by the legislatures of three- j
fourths of their numbers shall be thus I
adjudged to be a proper and needed I
amendment.
"It is idle in this case to suggest
that this power of amendment might
be used to change the form of the
government. It simpiy transfers a
power exercised by the stato govern?
ments to bo exercised by the Federal
government.
"The contention that the prohibition
] amendment is revolutionary and in?
valid is clearly without merit. It is
respectfully submitted that the motion
to dismiss should be sustained.''
Government warehouses for stor?
age of distilled spirits as adjuncts to
enforcing prohibition would be author?
ized under a bill introduced to-day by
Senator Warren, Republican, Wyom?
ing. The internal revenue bureau
would be empowered to acquire such j
warehouses. I
Under tho bill the prohibition com- j
missioner could compel the removal |
of spirits from bonded warehouses and j
removal also could be made at the re- ?
quest of distillers.
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Martens Tells
Of Changes in
Soviet Laws
Informs Senate Committee
Priests and Clergymen
Can Now Vote and Press
Censorship Is Abolished
Upholds Right to Force
Proletariat of America
Would Be Justified inTak
ing Over Capital, He Says
WASHINGTON, Feb. 19.?Many
changes have been made in the original
methods and laws of the Russian Soviet
government, Ludwig C. A. K. Martens,
its agent in the United States, testified
to-day before the Senate committee in?
vestigating Bolshevik propaganda in
the United States.
Among other things he said, priests
and clergymen can now vote and press
censorship has been abolished. Groups |
which criticize the soviet are tolerated
and allowed to maintain newspapers, he
added.
Wade Ellis, counsel for the commit?
tee, questioned Martens on the basis of
many documents and printed articles
of soviet leaders. Martens said ob?
jections against religion expressed by
soviet writers were personal and that
the only object of the Soviet govern?
ment wa% "to make religion free."
The witn<!ss admitted that after the
Soviet government had offered to stop
revolutionary propaganda in the United
State? and other countries. L?nine had
written open letter? urging revolt of
the "proletariat," and that the third
International at Moscow had urged
destruction of all governments recog?
nizing capital.
Upholds Right to Use Force
"We have played for an international
revolution," Lcnine said in a recent
speech on Russian foreign policies,
which Mr. Ellis read.
Martens said this was merely in
reference to "existing social condi?
tions."
"The working class in England and
Italy," the witness said, "was won to
opposition to plans for sending armies
to Russia."
Mr. Ellis read a manifesto from the
president of the Petrograd soviet, ad?
dressed to "the imperial nations of tht
world," which said:
"With you, Messrs. Imperialists, w<
Bhall carry on conversations as w<
have done, behind every word, force;
behind every condition, fqree; bebinc
every demand, force."
It was printed in the newspapei
"Trud," and Martens indorsed the sen
timent qualifiedly.
VWhen a majority ?3 suppressed b;
a minority it has the rignt tu usi
force," he said.
"You mean that if the proletariat ii
this country desired to take over indus
tries, investments and abolish privat
property they would be justified?"
"Yes."
In attending meetings of the Com
munist party in the United State
Martens said he was "gaining sym
pathy for Russia," not encouraginj
revolution.
"We have come here to tell Comrad
Martens that we have organized to tak
over this country just as the worker
have taken o%'er Russia," Mr. Ellis reai
from an address by Gregory Weinsteir
now an employee in the Soviet agencj
at one of the gatherings. Martens sai.
h?might have disavowed the statemen
if he had noticed it.
"I'm not responsible for what othe
people say at these meetings," Marten
said.
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Debs on Michigan Ballot
LANSING, Mich., Feb. 19?Sufficient
petitions to place the name of Eugene
V. Debs on the Presidential preference \
primary ballot as a Socialist candidate
for the Presidential nomination have j
ibeen received at the Secretary of
'State's office here. The primary will I
be held April 5.
Asks $1,000,000 Insurance
CHICAGO, Feb. 19?Captain Mar?
shall Field III, heir to the $120,000,000
Field estate, applied for a million dol?
lar life insurance policy to-day. He
made the application through two for?
mer "buddies," with whom he served
in France, and who are now insurance
agents.
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