THE SUN, SUNDAY, OCTOBER 18, 1812.
Continued from 1'lrtt Pane.
he wilt bo open to-night or to-morrow
night. Ah soon aa lis does he will notify
you anrl you will go in theie and look out
for thiiiRH.' I agreed."
Becker Miowed Interest,
Tlio tl.."X) was secured, said Hobo, and
the gambling house at 104 Wont Forty
fifth street was opened. Decker calleil
mi 1 1m fli.it nlirht (n naif Itriw lltlnlnnua hftd
been and wax told by Hone that business I
had been (iiiet, witn few patrons, Dut
that befnro a week it would be good.
The nxt time Rose saw Decker ho re
ported that the house had won several
.1 ...I .... . I. ...U... .,I.1,m
business. Decker told him to get 1300
Irntn Itionilml. wantlni! I lie motiev to
pay counael fees for I'hll, who waa charged
with minder. Horo 'went to Rosenthal
with the request, telling Rosenthal Decker
wan hard preened for cash Just then and
that K0O wan patt of the money owing to
Decker from Rosenthal.
"Herman Maid. Rosenthal said, 'You tell
Decker 1 won't give him any Won. That
note on that moitgage in net due for sixty
or ninety days yet and when it In due I
will ay it: and you can also tell him for
me that tho longer I thought over the
matter the worao 1 feel about his treat
ment of me. I don't think he did me
any great favor loaning me Sl.Son and
taking my lion who Id goods aa collateral.'
(J. What did you say to Becker? A.
That Hosenthal refined to let me hate the
S.vm he sent" ine to net. Decker said "Well,
that Is Juki what I thought nhout tlrnt rel
low. Now, I will tell ou something, -lack,"
nkl flecker. .
neon und much of the night session to
k. merciless cross-examination. He was
ttcd with nil the facts of nose's j thousand dollars on the previoua night's
nrerr its n Ritmbiw ana un iimuiiHi'
jit looae ntcn, ami he brought these
facts to hear with nil the pnwur he could
summon. He labored to discredit the
v lines n n confess, d murdrrer of
pr" Inns bad record. He drove and
itv'd ut Hose with savage intensity.
lt.it he could not And whet p. Rose had
lied or where Hose had contradicted
himself In any Important details. Tho
cross-examination ran Into the night.
Mr. Mclntyre at the end was exhausted.
Uls breath had cone. He was weary
to the bone. Hut the witness waa as
cool and us ready willed as he was ut
the beginning of the day.
The chief counsel for the defence
was dismayed by Justice Guffs order
I hut the direct and cross-examination
of ltoi niunt he contained In one day.
Mr. Mclntyre protested, saying he
needed more than a day. Justice Ooff
was Inflexible. He overruled every oh
Jrctlon. Save only for an hour's receas
for luncheon 1:15 I. M. to 2:1a V. M.
Ihe examination went steadily on.
Jlr. Mclntyre belabored Rose for ex
actly six hours and n half. Justice
tieff's determination to tlnlsh with Rns
In one day made It Impossible to lme a
recess for dinner. The court was In
session In the afternoon, therefore, from
2. IS P. M. to SMS P. M. In nil the two
i-csslnns occupied nearly eleven hours.
Rope testltleil for ten hours.
By every deftly woven Insinuation
nnd every direct charge he rould throw
Into his questions Mr. Mclntyre sought
to ruin Hose's credibility with the Jury,
frequently Justice iioff excluded tfxn
questions and rebuked the questioner,
but Mr. Mclntyre was pouring wnrda
into the Jury's ears.
The observer was unable to detect
that Mr. Mclntyre had broken through
Rose's story. The witness, under cross
enm!n.itlon, not only repeated his tes
timony given under direct examination,
but almost nlways nave the repetition
literally. All of Mr Mclntyrn's harry
ing and hadgerlnc failed to shake Hose's
Finally at SMS P. M. Mr. Mclntyre
tried Iji set an adjournment of the
cross-examination, The Justice refused
and when Mr. Mclntyre declined to
on excused the witness. Mr. Mclntyre
characterized the court's attitude as un
fair and said It would le one of tho
grounds of appeal If liecker were con
victed. The f-esslon ended after a hot altercu
tlon between the District Attorney and
Mr. Mclntyre. the latter Intimating that
the District Attorney had been uslns
Improperly his rlpht of access to wit
nesses. Justice Ooff Instructed the Jury
to disregard this tiff between counsel.
Rose took the stand at 10.01 A. M. He
was questioned by Mr. Moss, whose method
was to guide the witness's voluntary nar
rative. Mr. Moss put a quest irn only
when It was necessary to bring out asena
lale or distinct chapter of Rote's story
of blackmail and murdr,
Mr. Mclntyre objected to any proceed
ings yeMenlay on the ground 'that Octo
ber 12 was a legal holiday. JuMico Goff
overrule! the objection.
Proceeding with the direct examination,
Mr Moss brought out that Krse's last
place of residence was 515 Wntt 110th
Mr-'et; his Inr.t business, gambling. He
had known Herman Rosenthal for twenty
years, "off and on." He had known
i.ieut. Becker since the fall of IB11. He
had had business relations with loth
partnership with Rot-miliHl in the gam
bling houw at lot West Forty-fifth street;
collecting money for Decker.
Here began a long series of objections
by Mr Mclntyre. Most were overruled
and Rose was able to present the full
story of what ho saw and what Decker
said to him and he raid to Decker and
Ho had. he testified, seen Decker and
Rosenthal together, first at Ihe f,nfayetl
twins, fleconei at the -New tears eve
celebration of the hls Club. He Mild that
at ihe Klks Club RcoW and Rosenthal
stood up liehind Airs Kosenthnl
CJ. Propped? A. Heeker shM to Mrs
Rosenthal, "Now, do not worry, cheer
up Herman and 1 have had a thorough
understanding and our troubles re all
over. I am his friend and tie is my ft lend,
and you have nothing further to worry
about, and 1 will go the route for Her
man." Rose met Decker frequently there
after at Rome's house and morn often
at the Union Square. Hotel. At the lattor
place the day after the Klka celebration
Rose and Decker had a talk.
"Decker said that Rosenthal had been
talking to him long lieforo this about a
proposition of going into partnership
with him in the opening of this house,
this gambling house on Forty-fifth street,"
paid the witness. "Decker told mo that
Herman made a proposition to him asking
hirn to invest IS.nm."
CJ Go on? A. Herman Rosenthal had
nkkrd Meeker to Invest S5.000, and told
him that with Decker's Influence In com
mand of th. stiong arm snuad and
Herman's capabilities In the conducting I
or such a place, that the posslhllltles of
crowing rich fast weie very bright.
Keeker consulted me on the matter and
1 advised against It.
Rose advised against dealing with
Rosenthal. Ho said nobody had ever
made money with Rosenthal, that Rosen
thal was unreliable. Decker then said lie
guessed he would turn tho proposition
ciijwn. Dut the project came up fre
quently. Rosenthal then came down
to 12,500. Decker again consulted Rose,
who said it wasn't a question of amount.
He objected to going into business at all
At tho next meeting Decker said he
couldn't get rid of Dosentli.il, who was at
him all tho time to get his place open
Rosenthal was now asking Decker for
JI.SOO, Decker told Ro,e.
"He said, 'Whut do you think about
that. Jack?" Hose continued "Well,
tny answer was the same: 'It is not a
question of tho amount, Charlie, It is a
question of your uvoiduig tying up in
Mislness with him, because it won't take
.cry long before Herman will b telling
everybody, "liecker is my partner "
He said, 'Well, that is what I want to
avoid. I will tell you what I will do, Juck.
I am going to let Herman Rosenthal
hiivo 11,500 and I will secure myself by
getting a dummy to act for me in tho
matter and get a chattel mortgage on his
household things, and you, in turn I
will insist on Herman Rosenthal taking
you in us a partner in tho place '"
i ust ice uon ordered noso m proceed.
esplte loud objections by Mr. Mcln-
And you are to get 25 per cent, of the
pro'itb. ov do not let i lei man know
you are representing me in there and
you and 1 will divide the prollta in the
place.' I said If you determine to do
that, Charlie, why, all right, but for my
nelf I want to say thut I would rather not
represent you or myself or nny one else
in any business with Herman Rosenthal.'
He said, 'Well, now, regardless of what
he did with any one else, ho won't dare
do any, do you, out of what is coming
to you as profits from the winnings of that
place, because if he does he will have me
to reckon with'; and I agreed,
"I told Decker. 'All right then, if that is
how you feel aUiut It 1 will go in and
tepresent you in the place.' Soon (after
I met Decker nt one of our dally meeting
places and he said '1 just left Heiman,
telephoned my attorney and told Herman
to go down and sign the chattel mortgage
and get tbo l,6ou, Herman tells- m
Trouble ill Headquarters,
O. You use the very language, when you
ge the statements, use the very language
as nearly as you can, A. As nearly aa I
erin. "Now I will tell you Jack." Decker
snld. " This place has cave me a lot of worry
anil trouble, 1 am being harped on every
day at Police Headquarter about that
place, I i to to-day I hale Iwen able to
denv Its existence, but the time will come
very soon when I won't be able to do that
and while I was aMlted I would be dealt
fairly with by that lellow, 1 was willing to
go on and do everything I could to protect
that place, but this man's treatment of me
now when 1 need money and sent you to
get S.'Hi, and his refusal of It, relieves me''
of that worry about thit place. The next
time my attention Is called to that place I
am going to raid it "
Rose tried, he swears, to smooth matters,
saying that a raid would mean a lot of
trouble. He warned Rosenthal not to
go too far with Recker.i Rosenthal told
llose to tell Deaker that he couldn't raid
without evidence and that ho couldn't
get the evidence liecnuse, all of his men
"I reorted to Decker what Rosenthal
said." Rose teetitled "Decker said. Well,
that is his attitude, is it? All right, we
will see, u I have to raid thatplaco 1 will
r.iit It unH he Haiti vml toll. Decker fluid.
you tell Herman so.' I went back to the
place and told Herman what Becker
Decker sent word to itosenthal that
Commissioner Waldo had ordered the
house closed and that he (Deckerl wanted
it closed, Rosenthal returned word
that ho couldn't lie bluffed. He didn't
believe Waldo gave such orders.
Decker then asked Rosenthal through
Rose to submit to n fnke raid.
(J. You told KosnthaP A. Yes. I told
Rosenthal that Decker had Just asked mo
to take a menage to him asking him to
stand for a raid, that It would help all hands
concerned, that it woul I rellere Decker
of the w orry he was having about the place
at Police Headuiiarters. It would relieve
Herman from further worry that soon
after the raid wai mad Herman could
reoism the plsce and everything would
be all right. Herman said. "Tell Decker
h" must think I'm crazy to stand for any
thing like that. Why, here is this place
only ot en a short time and I am Just about
building the buiiiesup: I ha-e been around
telling the people that Becker is my friend,
and then hate him come along and raid ine''
Why, that Is ridiculous. I might Just as
well take and put a torch to the place and
bum It up."
Rose tried tq be a peacemaker, he
testified, (t waa no use. Decker an
nounced that he was through with Rosen
thal mid that he had to raid. He had a
nlan of the house from a visit he had
made there one night with Rosenthal and
Rose. Kobe thought the raid would bo
"awful dangerous." Ho testified that
"Oh, I will get away with It, and I want
to end everything between him and I.
I am going to make that raid, but I am
fojng to pay $1,500 to make that raid,
lec.iuse immediately I make the raid
I am going to tell Rosenthal to go and get
the satiM'aetion inipera covering the
mortgage held by Uonohue on the house
hold things in that place, and that Is In
navineiit lor niiv little damage that mar
tie done in the making of the raid, and I
am through with him."
Hoae Watched the Itnld.
The raid followed Rose stood with
Rosenthal across Forty-fifth street and
watched it One of the prisoners was a
nephew of Mrs. Rosenthal. Decker told
Roso next day that in pollco court Rosen
thal had said to him:
"That is a tough deal you g.ne me last
Rose sworn that Becker and Rosenthal
met next day and that Backer promised
to cancel the mortgage and call off police
men if Rosenthal would get the raid
prisoners to waix-e examination. They
did so und wero indicted.
Rosenthal liegan to harass Becker by
phone. No part of their agreement,
save the satisfaction of the mortgage,
had lsen fulfilled. Then Rosenthal
legan to talk.
"Soon after Decker told me that Rosen
thal had begun talking around the streets
about Decker's having leen his partner,"
taid Rose, "and raided his place on framed
up evidence, and that Rosenthal was
going to show him up. A few days after
I ugain met Decker at the Union Square
Hotel. Ho told me that Commissioner
Waldo had sent for him and asked him
If there was any truth in tho rumors
about him having been financially Inter
ested in Rosenthal's place. And Decker
told mo that his reply to Waldo was. that
he just laughed at him and said: 'Why,
Commissioner, kind of a new thing, isn't
it, policemen giving up money. The
usual thing is to have them come nnd
say that policemen got money from
Itoseiithnl (iettliiK Drnigrroua,
liecker ioiii mono tnut itosenthal waa
getting dangerous. Roso said nobody
would be Hove him. Dut Rosenthal made
anutlldaxit and tried to see Mayor uaynor,
Chief Magistrate McAdoo, Magistrate
Corrigan nnd Commissioner Waldo.
Decker told Rose. Tho witness then
came to Big Jack Zelig's part In the story.
It xvas un Indication of how important
a witness for tho prosecution Zellg might
nave oeen. Here is nose s verbatim
Dim Iter said "He Dosenthal Is now di
recting his efforts loivsril the lilstrict
Attorney's office. If eier. lie gets there,
wiiv. It means great danger. "Well," I sulci
to Meeker, "I don't think he can get theie.
Resides," I said, "it is the soreness of a
man whoso plnce has been raided." "Hut,"
said liecker, he menns to do me if he can
nnd I must stop him." "Well," I said, "it
Is easy enough to stop him. We will get
lople to see lilm and talk with him." He
said, "Now, Jack, I want to have a frank
talk with you und something want you to
do. You have Just done a favor for Zellg."
I sin ill, "I ii m trying to, hut I have not suc
ceeded as yet." "Well, on have got him
out on ball." I said, "Yes, but there Is
still that charge hanging over him, a framed
1 1 1 charge, and he Is Illuming ine for it."
No, pnrdon me, Zellg whs not out on bail:
he hud been out on the 14,000 ball and then
had been renrreatcd and held In 110,000
ball and he was confined In the Tombs,
Q. Do I understand you to say that at
the time of this conversation he was still
under f l.ooo bull? A. Ten thousand dollars
hail, he hud originally been under 14,000
(J Hut this time under lin.ooo? A, Yes,
sir, and lontlnrd in th" Tombs, Decker
said to me "There Is only one thing to do
iwllh a fellow like Rosenthal and Just itou
him so (hat he wilt not bother anybody any
more for all time," I said, "What do you
mean?" We said, "Well, there Is a fellow
that ought to be put off the earth." "Why,"
1 says, "I sgreewlth you,"
Q. (by Mr.' Mclntyre) What did you say?
A. "I agree with you; he is no account." He
said; "Well, no use saying he Is no account
and all of that, hut the idea is now to do
something to him," I says, "What do you
mean?" And he said, "There is a fellow I
would like to have croaked."
Ihe witness: Why. 1 says. "Charlie,
there is other ways of handling Kosenthal,"
and ha said: "Now, listen. Jauk," Decker
said, "1 am sr aM3h opposed to those thing
as you are, hut there Is a man where I hae
absolutely no scruples Ih doing anything
to, and what Is more I want to tell you
something else, I met Itosenthal last night
and rode In a taxlcab with him downtown,
a meeting that I could not help naxing
come up, a trick was plated on mo by
Kosenthal getting Into that taxlcab, and
among other things, Jack, that, dog went
on slandering members of your family"
1 said to him, "What did he say?" "Well "
he says, "I would not tell you what he sab).
It Is not what Rosenthal says, I have Just
told you that to show you the nerve of the
man, and all the nice, things you did for
Dosehthal all winter, and the money that
you gave him, to pay his rent, and the money
that you gave him to live, nnd that is the
gratitude, to go around slandering mem
bers of your family." I says, "Well, It
don't make much difference, . harlie, what
Rosenthal say-j either about you or mo."
He says, I know: that's all right. I Just
point thr-.; nut io you to show you what he
done to me too. Here I am In charge of
the strong arm squad, and instead of
getting money from that fellow 1 gave him
money, gave him It, SOU to stsrt his place
with, nut him In the way of making money.
protected the place and looked after him,
and there is the gratitude nnd thai in how
he returns it, when 1 was compelled to save
myself and my position to make a raid, a
raid for which I paid l,M)o to make, why, he
Is now looking to get my scalp.
I said, "You are right, Charlie, the man
is all you Any he Is and I agree with you ajid
everything, hut there are other ways of
handling Itosenthal." He said, "what are
they?" "Why." 1 said, "In the tlrst place
there are some people up town whom 1 can
go to who will send to Hosenthal and Just
lay the law down to him. These men
Rosenthal will pretty near have to do what
ever they ask of him. 'I hey will warn him
that for the best Interests of all concerned
tba,t he completed his plans of exposing
you or, as he thinks, break you."
"Why," he said, "do you thluk that 1
would ask anybody or let you ask anybody
to go to anybody and ask Kosenthal to let
up on me. You don't know me as well as I
thought you did." "Well." 1 said. "I have
another plan. Charlie. ! will get a couple
of gangsters to go and see Itosenthal and
warn him that If he don't stop In his attacks
on you and abandon all these plans nnd ideas
of his of exposing you that something will
happen to him." "Why. I don't want any
threats," Decker said, "you know with a
fellow like Kosenthal." 1 said "all right. 1
will send a couple of fellows up there that
will give Rosenthal a beating nnd warn him
and tell him the reason of that beating and
If he don't stop there Is something worse
than a heating In store for him."
And Decker said, "1 don't want him beat
up. I could do that myself, I could have a
warrant for any gambling houae that lie
frequents and make a raid on that place
and beat him un for resisting arrest or any
thing else. No beating up will fix that
fellow, a dog In the eyes of myself, you
and everybody else. Nothing for that man
but taken off this earth, have him murdered.
cut his throat, dynamited, or anything.
I said, "Charlie, don't excite yourself
This man Kosenthal Isn't worth taking any
such chances with," "Chances." he says,
"Jack, you know what ! think of you, what
I think of your family and what my family
thinks of you. You don't suppose for a
minute I would ask you to go Into anything
that meant taking1 a chance or meant danger
to you or yours no more than I would take
myself. There Is no danger to anybody
that has any hand In the murder of Rosen
thal, You can assure Zellg and all his
crowd that there Is absolutely no danger.
"Yon know me. Jack. I have made good
said Becker, "anything I ever told you I
would, and I will make good on this. There
can't anything happen to any one, and you
know the sentiment over at Police Head
quarters Is so strong that the man or men
that croak him would hate a medal pinned
on them." 1 said, "All right, Charlie, I will
I said "What Is It you want? He said
"I want you to go to the Tombs, see Zellg,
tell him that I will take care of that case.
the carrying of concealed weapons. F.x
plain to him about Dosenthsl and tell him
what Rosenthal has done to me and to every
ono elie, and also show him tne danger
that the gang Is In as the result of Itosenthal
squealing, Tell him anything you like
lack; It don't make any difference. I mill
stand by anything you tell him. Ask him
to issue an order from the Tombs to come
with his gang to croak Kosenthal to-night.
and to-morrow Zellg will he out on the
street aud relieved of anv further worry
about the charge against him."
Ho snld, "Will you do that?" I said,
"Yes." "Well," he said, "here, take this to
Zellg with my compliments." Becker gave
me a hundred dollars to take, to .eltg. I
said to Decker. "Charlie, do you mind If 1
have Yallou along with me," and he said.
"Not at all, Xoti can take Yollon." And
Becker said, "Now, I will see you to-morrow
morning and you let me know just what
Zellg says, but, If possible, have it done
to-night, it will bo all over In twenty-four
Q. Old you see Zellg' A. Yes. lr.
fiave neckrr'a fjintt to Zellg:,
Q, Proceed. A. I saw Zellg and I gave
him-the first thing I did was to giro him
the tioo. Zellg asked me what that was
I told him It was I too. I told Zellg It was
1100 that Decker had sent him. Zellg said
"I don't want that lloo, I want to get out
of here. I don't want the one hundred
dollars. I want you to get me out of here.
I tell you, Jack, If you are under the tm
pression that if they rush me to trial and
give me fourteen years, that that will end
It as far as you are comemed, you are mis
taken, and there will he friends of mine
that you will have to reckon with about
this thing." "Why," I said. "1 Just brought
you this one hundred dollars after leaving
l.lcut. Becker, to whom I explained just
what you told me now about the position
you are In, nnd he thought that perhaps
little money would help you for a while.
but not to worry, that everything will lie
all right, and It ia a favor tor him that I
want to ask you," And he said, "Well,
don't ask me any favor or anything at all.
You gut me out of here." And 1 said "all
"I want to get out of here," Zelig said.
"It la you and Becker got me In this trouble,
in Ihe first place, on that framed up charge.
I would never have been In Nev York to
have got Into this second affair. I have
been arranging to leavo town when these
fellows framed me up. Now you havo
promised to get me out of that and you
haven't done It, and now I find myself In
u worse scrape, I am now charged with
being a second offender and the District
Attorney aud Judge Malone are rushing
me lo trial and there Is fourteen years star
ing me In the face, Now, you come and hand
o. Did you see Decker after that? A. Yes,
the next morning.
Q, State the conversation that you had
with Decker. A. Becker asked me did 1
see Zellg, and I told him "yes," and he asked
me "Did you give Zellg the $100," and I said
Becker said, "And did you ask him lo
issue that order from the Tombs?" "I did,"
I said. "And what did ha say?" I said,
"He refused to have anything to do with
It until he Is out on ball and relieved of that
charge that ia hanging over him." Decker
replied, "Well, then let him rot In the Tombs,
That charge stands as the affidavit reads,
and that ends him and that ends all the
gang from now on, F.very one of them I
will settle," I suggested lo Decker
y. What did you say? A. 1 said to Decker.
"There are some friends of Zellg whom I
know that I have met during the time I was
trying to get Zelig out on hall. 1 will go
see them. Perhaps 1 could get them to act
In the matter without any order from Zellg."
He gave me a couple of days 1 asked it of
Becker, and he said "Well, all right. Do
that, and see these fellows, have a talk with
them, tell (hem Just what I have told you,
nothing can happen lo anybody that croaks
Hosenthal. And let me know what they
say." I went to the Southern Boulevard
to a house and there met I.efty Louie and
Q. Had you ever met Lefty or Whltey
before? A. 1 bad,
Q. When and where? A. During the time
I was negotiating for Zelig's release on' the
first hail of (4.000.
y. Now, did you tell Mr. Becker anything
about going up lo Whltey and Lefty? A. I
Q. Before you went? A. Yes, sir1 I told
him before I went. I told him I would see
these friends of Zelig, who llted on the
Southern Boulevard, Lefty Louie end
Whltey, and have a talk with them and per
haps I could prevail upon "hem to do the
Job without getting an order from Zellg
direct. He told me to see them and report
to him. I went up to this house on the
Southern Boulevard and found them there
and told them that. I told them' I came
there to warn them of the danger that they
wero In. of the fate similar to what Zellg
had, met by being arrested 'on a charge of
carrying concealed weapons, and they slid,
"Well, we doVt. carry them any more etnte
this trouble of Zelig's." ' Wetl. I said,
"It don't mnkejajiy difference. Zellg didn't
have one either.,'1 ''ow,if you, down town
at all you are o'.r "Well, who la doing
this?" they said. Why, Lieut. Becker And,
n strong arm, sound," I told Ibem, "has
threatened to 'do It," "What la the cause'
of that?" they asked m. "Why, Herman
Rosenthal;" t 1 said. "Who la Herman;
Kosenthal and what had he''to do with It?"
they asked, and I said, "WeJK he has been
stealing against Lieut. Rei'ift and he a
trying to get to the DIstrldtAAttorner's
offiie. and see District AttorueyWhltman
to expose, Decker and the workings of the
strong arm squad. Now," I said, oterker
feels and has told roe so that all you.fellowa
whom on my account be has been taking
care of owelttchlni and to yourselves to te
that Rosenthal does not appear and makX
thai squeal. They said, "lou mean by
croaking him?" I said, "Yes." JHateyou
seen Zelig?" they asked me. I said, "Yea.."
WlillnaT ta De'Mareleir. ' '
Q: What did' he say 'about it? A. "Why
I didn't talk direct to' Zelig about It." I told
them, "but I know that Zellg will ngree to
it." Weil, they si Id. "All right. We are
rilling. We will go to-night." 1 said
XAeil, now., fat us arrange it this way: You
stay here, I will go to Forty-second street.
hut Just wait my arrival and be ready at
any time that T come for you to take you
where Rosenthal Is and than you ran do the
Joh." They said. "We will wait."
Q. Finish tho conversation. A. I gave
them some money and left, and that night
I met I.ieut. Becker nnd 1 told him that I
By Mr. Mclntyre: May we have the date
By the Court: As nearly as you can fir
the date. A. The very night of this In
terview. By Mr. Moss- When was that interview?
A. Some time between the rath and 23d
Q. Keep your voice up. A. I saw Becker
that night nnd told him that everything
was all right and that Zelig's friends were
on the Job, nnd that he could expectany day
now or any morning and wake and read the
papers and find that Rosenthal had been
found murdered, and Becker said to me, "I
hope that is so. Now, tell those fellows
to drop everything else. There I) nothing
to worry about and nothing to. fear, and I
wilt take care of anybody andaeveryhody
that has a hand in the thing."' I said, "I
have assured them on that and they are on
the job now." A couple of days passed by.
Lieut. Becker called me nt my house one
morning and said "Kosenthal Is still at it,
hut I don't see these fellows at It." "Well,"
I ssld, "Charlie, I don't know. They are on
the job. I will go see them again to-day
and And out why this delay." Ha said,
"Now, you better see that If there Is much
delay, much further delay by them, there
won't be any delay by me."
Jlr. Mclntyre May we now have the date
when this conversation was had?
The CourtFix the time.
Mr. Moss He kas fixed It before.
The Court Between the twentieth and
The Wltness-Wlthln a day or two after
that. I again went lo the Southern Boule
vard. y. To a house on the Houthern Boulevard?
A. Yes, air. This time there was quite a
crowd there, eight or nine or ten men. I
called Lefty Louie aside and had my talk
with him nnd 1 told him that Becker was
growing very Insistent In hi demands
that something happen to Rosenthal and
happen quickly, that he was threatening
to go to the District Atlorney'eofflce. Louie
said. "Well, we nre ready whenever you are."
"Well." I said, "all right. I will see you In
a day or two. You wait here. If I don't
come I will send some one to rjrlnpr you
where I am and then take you to where
Rosenthal Is." They said, "All right."
"I saw Bleut. Becker tho next day and
reported lo hlrn that I had seen the fef
Inw, slid thni ttiav were on the Job and
that It attrely would happen within the
next few daye," nald the witness after a
delay over a aeniea iranon, men uc
A few riavs nassed bv nnd Decker again
said: "There ha nothing been done about
that thing, has there? It Is beginning to
look like 1 will have to do tne jon myseu.
I said. "You won't have to do It yourseir.
Those fellows will surely do It. Now they
are waiting lo get Kosenthal downtown.
Mat rarllcnlar About the Place.
"Well, what Is the difference where they
do It?" Decker asked. "They need not
be particular aa lot he place or lime, (let
him anywhere, ureaa into nis nouse ami
et him. It Is the same thing. I told you
there cannot anything happen to any one.
Now whv all .this stalling and spurring?
1 said, "There Is no stalling! there Is no
sparring, aiout the thing. The men are on
the jon. )OU ran convince uicit i
If you want to."
A few .dnys passed by and Becker met'
me in'the morning at the Union Square Hotel
and he said: "Now( Jack, it Is a long 1 1 die
since th.xt thing was alarled and there-la.
not'a' thing" Ijeen done about It. It seems
to me as one of two things," -ecker said,
"either you are stalling me or that these
fellows don't take Bny stock In what you
told them about auythlng happening to
ny ooe'of them." "Why." I eald, "you are
wrong about the stalling part or it. nut you
bar be right about the other." "Well."
he.sahl. "does Brtdgie Webber know these
felloVtt?" rsald;--Ve." "Well." he eaye,
"do hVy 'know Bridget knows 'me?"- I
fd;?a." "They know Brldgle is respon
sible afcfriaa got ' money and hss got
friends? Xnd I said: "Yes." "Don't you
think It would help If Brldgle spoke to
them?" I said, "Well. It won't do any
hsrm." "Well, give mo Brldgle's tele
phone number." I gave It lo him end that
afternoon I rceWt(d a message at the
baths from Beckertell'nc me to meet him
that night and bring Wtbber along xvlth me,
I went uptown to nnd uringey xxeDperano.
I had asked Becker If I could bring along
no, I asked him what time (hrlng Webber,
and he had suld somewhego, along about
o o'clock. "1 am going up hfVrald a crap
game up In Harlem, f can aw you and
Brldgey up there and meet my, men up
there to make this raid." s v
I hired an automobile, accompanied by
Vallon and Schepps. I went to fftrty-
.ni, mitsAm wl Rl4l, nvnn lonklllltYnr
Brldgey. Brldgey was not there. ThetMe
was coming for to keep my appointment
with Becker. I left Schepps Isshlnd, telling
him to wait for Webber, and Immediately
Webber arrived to te him to get Into a
tail and come right to U4th street and
Seventh avenue, that I wanted to see him.
Yallon and myself went uptown. We ar
rived at I'Jlth street and Seventh avenue
and Lieut. Becker was not there. I went
into u cigar store to get some cigarettes.
When i came out I found him In conversa
tion with Harry Yallon and I Joined them.
O. Keep your voh-e up. Becker in con
versation with Yallon? A. Yes, sir. Becker
asked me where Brldgey was and I told
him 1 had left a man.down at Forty-second
street to have Brldgey come up here Im
mediately he arrived. Right then Webber
arrived. We all stood at this vacant lot,
sat on a board across that vacant lot talk
ing about Kosenthal. .
By the Court When you say "we all,
whom do you mean? A Bjcker, Webber,
Yallon and mvself.
0. You spoke of Schepps; where was
Schepps at that time? A. Schepps waa
I had left orders lo Schepps not lo come.
y. Where was he? A. At 122d street and
O. He waa not there nt this conversation?
A. No. sir. Beoker began by telling of the
efforts that Hosenthal was making to reach
the Distrlot Attorney.
By Ihe Court-State what he said. A. Ho
said, Becker said, "I have been Informed
to-day by Jack Sullivan that Kosenthal
is trying to arrange n meeting with District
Attorney Whitman, t'p to date District
Attorney Whitman has refused to see him."
0. Are yil able lo fix the dsto? A.
No, sir, I am not; I know It was in June.
Mr Mclntyre May we know what part
The Court As nearly as you can.
By Mr. Moss Can you stnte? A. H
must have Isten the latter part of June.
Asked Webber lit Help.
y. Is that as near as you can state? A.
Yes, sir: that Is as near ss I can state. Decker
said lo Webber: "Brldgey, why don't you
help Jack In that thing and have that fellow
croaked?" And Webber said he didn't
want lo lay himself liable to those fellows,
"There is no laying liable to anybody or
anything." . .
Q. is that Beeker'a reply? A. That Is
tng to haptieti to anybody thut l
hiitiil in the croaiciiur i,r l(o..iih.i ."'
said. "I don't know whether .' 'J
lug or weakening or what It Ia r .i'
these fellows w.ln't lake Jink's m7
it, Now ton step Into the lUag, y.,:
lake charge of things nnd see t)ln jij :J',
is done for mo, will xtm?"- Krldev
would and llrldtrey s.ilrl, "I em',, i. ,I4f
rtu 'I'rif lull i 111 I m f I im.i n.l -i . .
Titan unri IIooKt Mimfl niri.. ?. , 5
whispered mnvvrMtloii uml (,n ih...
turn liecker all(rt me ni(lft rttwi i
fill Miw juii i ' nri? u;i ,ov Ifij,
ought lo le donn within n tlav nr t1
-.1.1 tett'.tl ..el(k tts-t. .1 . .
r-nt". . ' 'v Jill I . f r a li
. . .. ' M'H It
uimi we ieii.
II 1 1 IH 1-411 1 Mitt hint mrnlh) a t
j sr t Hot' ( liutiul "
HIT" x . J " iifii-in
MX Jtl. . It,. .1
, ll0 III'' I I'MMHrMUnil, f I.LI
ire If Jlrliiueyhrttl noon Die MiowW i )
"I don't I; now. I uneii't nr h, 13
nnythlnt? from llrldiivy. Imt I m illTTfai!j
ItfMlTftV nil Ills' (till llllUf tlmro ..III i
M Vsu whit If r. n e ..
w. .. ...... , ninrrM ftfi j,
Continued on Sri rnlh vi"
Lord & Taylor
Women's Silk, Cotton &
Lisle Thread Hose
The active season for hosiery selling is now
here stocks are complete with the very latest
and newest showing, and offer the widest range
of novelties the market affords, which for
quality, beauty and style are well calculated
to attract your admiration.
IP omen's Thread Silk Hose
with or without cotton soles and tops
$1.00 & $1.35 per pair upward
Openwork Instep Thread Silk Hose
$1.45 per pair upward
Black Outside Thread Silk Hose
$1.00 per pair upward
Plain Boot Thread Silk Hose
in black, white and colors
50c per pair upward
Extra Long "fFyde-Top" Hose
in lisle, silk lisle or cotton
50c per pair upward
Women's Outsize and Regular Size
in various styles
50c per pair upward
Gauze, Medium or Heavy Weight
Cotton, Lisle and Mercerized Hose
in black, white or tan
35c per pair 3 pairs for $1.00
Broadway & 20th St.; 5th Ave.; 19th St.
Lord & Taylor
Important Fail Sale
Oriental Carpets & Rugs
Commencing Monday, October 14th
A rare opportunity to secure Genuine
Oriental Rugs at prices far below their real
value. The assemblage , presents every con
ceivable weave known to Oriental Art, and the
range of sizes is practically unlimited. Every
rug in this superb collection was selected for its
individual merit by our own experts resident
in the Far East, so that you are assured of the
genuineness of any you may select.
IP'hy We Are Quoting Such Low Prices
Owing to the disturbed conditions in the
Orient, shipments which we should have re
ceived months ago only recently arrived. OuY
Fall importations have also come to hand, so
that, unavoidably, our1 present stock is almoi
double the amount it' should be. , '
To effect an immediate reduction
of stock we have arranged this sale
Extra Quality Kirmanshah Carpet
Values $465.00 to $600.00
at $225.00, $250.00 and $275.00
Sizes 13-8 x 9-1 to 14-7 x 11-3
Best Quality Persian Serapi Carpet's
Values $285.00 to $375.00
at $165.00 to $235.00
Sizes 12-0 x 10-4 to 13,6 x 9-7 . :
Extra Persian Carpets
Values $225.00 to $300.00
at $125.00 and $165.00
Large Kazdk Tiugs
Value $65.00 ' .
Average size 5x8
Values $85.00 to $100.00
Average size 4-6 x 6-6
Fine Persian Rugs
Values $75. to $125.00
at $45.00 to $65.00
Average size 4-6 x 6-6 i
Daghestan & Shirvan Rugs
Values $20.00 to $35.00
at $io,oo $13.50 and $16.50
Values $25.00 to $40.00
at $16.30, $20.00 and $22.50
Karahagh & Hamadan Rugs
Values $10.00 to $20.00
at $5.25, $6.75 and $9.00
Values $15.00 to $25.00 '-
at $8.50, $10.00, $12.50 and $15.00
Antique Bokhara Pieces
Values $15.00 to $25.00
at $9.50 to $14.00
Values $6.50 to $15.00
at $3.50, $6.00 and $8.50
Inspection and comparison will convince you of
the remarkable values offered upon this occasion.
Broadway & 20th St.; 5th Ave.; 19th St.
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