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The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, July 18, 1859, Image 2

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iMTtmttoiH with Prince Aetternlcb?Hi*
flew ol' (he French Character?Contempt
for the Balance of Power?The Polish
Revolution?He Hates Isms?Condemns Jo*
sophism?Austria can Absorb no Sore?Observations
on Blontesquleu, Sue, Balzac,
SUvIo Peillco, Kossuth, ilulzot?The Inde*
poodence of the Pope and lapoleon's
Scheme- The Kingdom of Upper Italy and
fenlce?Future of Germany and FranceRevolutionary
Jews?The Sick flan of Enrope?Thorns
In the Russian Crown?Set*
ternlch and His System,
Ac>i Ac., kc?
Nearly ten years ago, far my o*a gratllcation alone, I
Committed Uio fuLr ving rolatlon td writing. I no# pub'
ltah it without alteration, for It seems to mo that correc
(ions would only dimmish its intrinsic interest. The
reader is requested to go back to the end of the year 1849,
and to remember that I merely relate what I heard, mitiiout
enwririj Into a y discussion about it. I must premise,
bus over?re'ying on my memory, which is vary re
tertivo?that Prince Metleroioh has said all that I have
related, am. for the moat part I use his owu expressions:?
January, 1850.
n) t'&uvucub :nouu, in. iuouuvtv uo uuboipio,
log to pay his respects to l'rioce Metteroich, an old friend
Of his family during his exila in Bruseols, I roaolved to ac
company bun, knowing (bat I could never tuvo to favorable
an opportunity of seeing that illustrious man.
You think, said M. dc Bussiere, that ho knows you are
tho author of nil those artie'es which have appeared m
the Univer* against him He must have seen many othen.
I re. lied : I would have no curiosity to see him If I
thought he was a man to remember suoh thingl; be
Bidot, I wish to excuse myseif from an> thing exaggerated
Or erroneous 1 may have said, These aro mistakes which
a statesman would know how to pardon oven to an enemy,
ttnd we are not enemies, only opponents.
Wc set out on the 13:h or 14th of December, and on the
evening of our arrival M. da Bussiere waited ou the
Trlnce, and brought me tho assurance that I would be
well received On tue morrow, then, we presented our"
solve* at tbo door of the elegant mansion in the suburbs
in which he dwelt during his exile; he who tor nearly forty
years was the First Minister in Austria. This house had al
ready acrjuiied celeorlty, Laving been built by the violinist
Benot, the husband of Malibran. It was an agreeable
and commodious dwelling, and contained a small theatre,
Which then served for a t-UU a minger. We wore received
by tho Princess, the .hird wife of M. de Metlerntch,
Whom he bad married in 1830. She belonged to the great
Bohemian family of Zethy; she w\s very beautiful, but
proud and haughty. Hir pride, I was told, was very displeasing
to the Viennese, but I found ber very kind and
friendly. .She epoke Freuch.with ease and fluency without
an aooent, but with that peculiar intonation which Germans
never lose. It was not without regret that we saw
aomo visiters entor, although they were famous people
In Brabant. What a contretemps, said M de Bussiere to
me; we will not be alone, and this lord and lady will cease
talking of the rain only to begin again about the flue
T..c Prince came from his study and saluted these im
potant personages. I confess I experienced some emotion
in soeing before me a man I had so often heard exec
vied; whom I had for a long t'me regarded as the
pillar of dospotism; oue of the executioners of Poland
and Daly, jailor of Speilberg, the seaport of Josephism,
&c.,&c. He was an old man of seventy-five, above
the middle height, very e-'eC, and a mild and noble
prcseaoe His abundant white hair contributed to
render him still more venerable looking. Ho
talked for seme time to the B'abancras; then re en
taring his study, he made a sign to M. de Bussiere and I
tc follow him.
1113 BITOT.
I observed with a corner of my eye the furniture of this
Apartment, ami what seemed to me the most curious object
in it was a cage in which a canary was singing. I
?ras surprised lha' Hettornlch would allow himself such a
Compairon. fie made us be seated, und then commenced
speaking m a clear voice, and excellent atyle, relieved by
a e-.gntiy foreign aocent. He Is as calm In conversation
as in marine] in tact, hta prominent characteristic is sere i
y, mioglod, however, with kindly eat re.
' your name ia known to me," said he. anl you aro
cot ignorant of mine. I have been for a long time on the
stage of the world; I have preceded the Revolution; X am
what is called an old fogy; my species Is almost extinct.
Revolutions have done more for me than I hove for tbem,
and that without putting me under any obligations to tbem.
They have raised me to positions to whi:h I would never
have aspired, and placed them be'ore me when I sought
them not. I bare not wisheu to be what I hare been; I
have let thuigs take their cojrse. Cast upon the
ocean of events, I lb jght only of directing the helm or
vcy own conscience."
tVlthoui waiting for any reply or any compliments, he
entered imtuediateiy on the ailiirs of Europe, and especially
of France, which I saw he knew imlmatc-ly. " Too
French character," said he, " If singular and puzzling.
Gonor&lly speaking, there Is in the world two kinds of in"n,
those of the paat and those of the future?in other words,
tte men of yeeterday and the men of to-morrow. Tae
latter only, among whom 1 class myself, are of any account;
for yesterday is past, and men ought to give their
attention to the morrow, which is springing iutoexuloace
Hut grem hmnn ?r,> thn n, -.f /. A... .2-. 1
the pi-sing moment. We step from tbo past to the Inure,
from yesterday to to morrow; and the present day, the
proceet moment, !e only a bridge connecting these two
shores. Well, Prenchnun gxre up the patt. they forget it,
t hey dexpii-- it, and without. thinking of or prodding for (fie
future, Uuy otMinalety pmrritt in remaining on the bridge.
France has before her at this moment j net two years and
a half, and she Is seriously thinking of constituting herself
into a republican {'residency, which means putting
herself in a Btate of revolution every three or four years.
This U> what she builds on. A future of three or even
two years appears in her eyes long enough to do everything
"We have," said I, smiling, "views which are something
vaster. We have tnen among us, and behind them
a great macs of people, who hope for a Presidency of ten
years, and evon some who dream of the stability of a
new empiro."
"Ah, ah! Napoleon does not wish to moyo at the en J
of bis term."
"We third; so, and we think that he is right."
"1( hj withdraw at the expiration of the tirfe for
which he was c'.ectei,- Europe, and probably France, also,
wotid be very much But how to remain,
there Is the difficulty. la condition are jou
bow? Yon do not know. All false ; everything
depends on chance; every basis on which ta
pround a reasonable conclusion fails us. ,*h! we
have not yet got cut of the marsh. Wh?0
She intermediate power is suppressed, acd tho supremo
power rests directly upon what is called the people, this
lnaKcs at unpleasant juxtaposition, from which no good
results. For tms reason do" man cac aay what will happen,
or whore Europe is drifting. It annoys me to be \
asked my opinion of the future, for it sppt.rs to rao but ,
a cauidroi? where a'l the elements ol destruction are
Beeihlng confusedly together. I know very wen what
will redl1'1 from i'i but I am entirely gnorant of wr>. t ,
0k *osn?irnn? and t:is balajtck of towsr.
1.1 i.'l?.n?? mal?10 France wbohas none such incalculable
mischief, porhspi, without intending it, as Uonto-s?nHBU'.hn
i. . chia,era ot an English constitution "
and the balance of power. 1 say chlmer\ t
because wh??. he believed he saw in I t
Uns."j.j whst he holds up for our admurw*' * . I c
Mttkm, doofc cot in realily exist there. ' 'on ???.I 1
tpeechtoeay thsu, there is a V.iut - it is a igure o. i .
to<%- -*/ nive had, and ,v .uid commons in Eng 1
that ^a'JUTe -?y have now. only an aris 1
jJ.7 wr which " .. they hwe Lid, and still bsve, <
T, rfe Cod no equivalent In Fiance, and '
r wean counterbalance the action ol a represocta- 1
5r government?1 allude to that admirable political saga- 1
j, that admirable love of tradition, that reellDg ol dura ]
,:uo, which has resisted up to the present time the
changes of a representative government. But they are
cneroacbing on tradition, and God knows how England
will como out of It. The balance of power it a philoso
t-hical Utopia?all power it in ill nature tnor etching anil
int lerani qj a rival. We may have in one country raaay
ordem, whose strength Is counterbalanced by a hierarchy
carefully maintained, but we can have only one power.
31 we have two or more, it is not the balance, but the
trtfo of power we must look out for. The conflict is
fatally prolonged until one of theeo authorities is subdued,
jnd. it frequently happens that both are destroyed. Woe
ftotbeceuntry which wtnesses these terrible struggles,
jou know something of UV"
"Yes," I replied, "and the opposition to It is organized
jtmorg us." vr *
_ ' 00 10 l)e released from it," pursued the Prince;
it win not be easily done. jt j^g succeeded in rooting
ft wo formidable principles in your prejudices, at least. If
government and the
jubdi^onof property. Legislation has levelled exclu?lve
right m the dust, aod reprcaeutative govornmoot is
Constantly exciting troubles, which scatter this dust
around. It is the ruin of the social state TW under
Stacl these things better in England. There tho zovero
jnent is stable, because the family remains, and the fa
jnily remains because the properly >* subdivided I
Ibo father of Sir Rooert i'eel h?d a considerahla '
fortune. He bequeathe! to his eldest m i !
thousand pounds a year, to the mud lbirl_ '
forty thousand franca a year, and o nig daueht^r*
Sve hundred thousand francs each, it is this mat
fair Hies are foondei and the void r 1' time lnf.i'libiv
jmakos in the governing claaeos provided against I
doubt whether you will revert to th.rc wise laws 1
rati er fear tor you and for the world, th > the revolution
according to lis custom, will trinsform into laws these
communistic doctrines as it has (Joue with many revolu
Lion fry principles, for some time back order has buen
re w tabllsbed by means and with a concurrence that rtn.
riem It almost more dangerous than disorder Itself. F.torutiorTS
orncot destroy the h'irr.tn spooies, an l bl?>i
bow "vPr and corneals the scaffold. Laws exist destroy.
....a (ft] . - . Mi KHUlMi'l <*1., |
Mil I BHYiHl 11?T> MOWTiLlMUlRT.
The subject of conversation changed, and the Prince
l>oko tc me of our Catholic affairs. He Btoppsd when tf
de Mnutslembert's ntine was montlono ) and observed that
he ba I always admir'U bis talent and sincerity. tVueu
be made his dial appearaaie la public life 1
saw at once that he would push his opinions
to extremes, and I ?*"d my eyes on him. The hasis
of his ideas pleased mo. Amidst the errors
mingled with them, hiiJ the impetuosity wtU wluih
be made ibem kaowj, his ideas were mine. In 1811 he
took a lancy to visit Uallicia, and applied to mo for pjr
raisslou to travel there. He was too young, and his I'ihsU
sympathies were top strong I.or me to permit hi a to travel
tbiough that oountry, and probably compromise himself.
lie was much auuoyed by my refusal, and Inst no
' opportunity of showing it. I did not feel the slightest ill
! will towards him, and I waited with patience the inevitable
moment of reconciliation. I felt it had come, recently j
when 1 road bli admirable discourse on the affairs of
Home. I wished to make tho Qrst advances to II. do Mentalembert,
and the person to whom 1 applied was naturally
U de Saints An I alee, the Ambassador through whom
I had refused him permission to travel in Galllola. I wrote
to bim that his discourse was, in my opinion, as wise and
true as It WU bold and eloquent; that It expressed all my
thoughts; that I was ready to subsoribe to every word of
It; and that, desiring to say so to the author, I begged Saints
Aulaise to express this In my name. II. de Montalemnerl
accepted my overtures In the spirit In whioh they were
offered, and I was delighted with it.
nis polish Rivourrioxiaw.
"Yon, also,'' said tho t'riaoe, "nal a gooddoalof Polonism
in the Univert, which has often led you astray. I am
oue of the oldest readers of your journal; I have followed
US LUliiBO WIU1 U1B luisruill 1 BMWays MUfcO UI HflvllU lUS'AS,
sul your anti-Austrian polemic* mule me desire more |
than ouce for an opportunity to enlighten you; but the opportunity
never presented itself. However, for some
time back, It seems to me that you have been better in
" Tbere is nothing like a revolution, Prince, for opeuing
ouo's eyes to the character of revolutionists. The I'oish
revolutionist* have made us reflect, as well as others.
Nevertheless, we love Poland still, and your llighoess
will permit me to add that we cannot stifle our resentment
against Russia and Prussia, and even Austria, for her conduct
to tb?! unhappy oountry."
" Even among honorable men," replied the Prince,
"truth has one great enemy, and that Is ignorsuce.
This has always led me to try and dispel Ignorance
in upright minds whenever I met them.
In this particular, therefore, I ail at your
disposal. I look upon It as a duty, and certainly it is a
pieosure to me, to answer any grave or well cuusiJered
question. Therefore, if now or hereafter you are puzzled
shout any point of contemporary history, and that you
think there is anything la it that you do not know aad
cat not thoroughly understand, question me."
" I will prodt st oqco by your Highness' kindness, and
r quest you to put me In pusseesion of the truth ai connected
with events in Gallicis.
" Vou refer to the rising of the peasants in 1846. That
map the work of Polomsm. It undertook to get up a rob<
11:00 among the peasants of Galllcla, who appears 1 to It
too favorably disposed towards the Austrian government.
But two species of conspirators were working at the samtime,
for Polonism conspired also against itself, and there
w,"t in its ranks many democrats and socialists of the
Frvnoh type, who looked upon property holders la ttis
same light that citizens Louis Blanc aud Proudbon do. In
place, therefore, of taking up *arms against the
Imperial authority tliey took up arms against
the proprietors, a large number of whim had
given the easily excited peasants too much cause of com
pi tint. The result was not what the conspirators wished,
though they had prepared the way for It; It was a sml len
and terrible conflagration?a true jacquerie. Much mischief
was done before the government, taken wholly unawares,
could interposo the slightest obstacle. It was
necessary to use stratagem wheu they wanted power, and
consequently they paid so much a head for every gontleman
brought alive into the prisons. It wss the only
m< itns we bad of saving them. The incorporation of
Cracow, too, has raised a great clamor. Diplomatically
speaking, that was the m<?t simple and straightforward
aff.ur in the world. The three Powers acted not only for
tht t own Interests but for the interest of humanity. They
ba 1 received from the generous sentiments of the Emperor
Alexander the creation, or rather the promise of
creating, the State of Cracow, which had not in itself and
oou id not have, any means or existence or oontlnuancs
Tt y even went so far as to spoak of making It a free j
town?a free town of a city completely surrounded by
i po.vcnui siatesi jam ine cnimera or a commercial existence
waa cot more extravagant than that of a political
cx '-tence. In abort, they have only made a aort of holy
' city for Polonlam, useful in keeping up In the bosom of the
three rowers the cancer of conspiracy. The Austrian
government put an end to tnis horrible state of things.
There was no treaty to prevent It. for there was no treaty,
no ratiQcatloq, but simply a promise, which oould bo and
which ought to be disregarded?lor to hoop it was dangerous.
and to realize it impossible.
Poland is an unlortunate nation. I pity her. She has
- socio a lo'.iraale qualities that 1 resogmi i and honor. She
asp.res to political existence again. I can well under
stuul it. I have often regretted, and so has the Emperor
Francis, the division of Poland. It would be well for Austria
if she had no part in it: but she has not the power to
dispose of it; the thing is done. But with Poland?which
1 again repeat is a generous nation, and worthy of compassion?we
must not confound Polonlsm, which is a deteslible
spirit?a spirit of disorder, of impiety, ol iniquity,
and I have no hesitation in saying, an anti-Polish spirit;
for it has damaged the causa aad even the name of Poland
throughout the entire world. Yoa ask what is Polonism?
It ta the madness of pretended patriot!, Who regard n?ih.og
but the gratitication of their own pride, aud who
would make heroes of themselves at the expense of their
country. I hope Polonism is dead, killed by its own hand.
It has received In Sicily, from Mierolawskl, and in Turkey,
sickening.' "
I give Prince Mutter ich's replies to qSMIohs wnich ha
allowed me toask,aad not myown opinions. 1 was there to
question, and cot to discuss. The Prince's explanations on
the affairs of Poland are the explanations of Austria; they
do not justify the other Powers nor Austria herself. Austria
has not done what she ought to have done, as a Catholic
nation, to guard against and to extinguish the antagonism
between peasants and proprietors, or to make her Polish
subjects forget as much as possible too nationality thoy
i:..1 hat it Is truo, ol the other si te, that the revolutionary
spirit renders reparation, and, consequently, reconciliation,
very difficult. On both sides faults against
I God have given rise to faults against men, which punish
men and avenge God. For many years Europe has been j
ecumglod In the complicated machinery of injustice from
wh cb she cannot extricate herself either by diplomacy or i
by arm 3, mi in wntcn mil nous or victims win bo mangled 1
until the true rights or man are secured by the recjgni- |
tion of ate authority ?t ^?^MKTTKRMCH'8
" Apropos of I'olonism," said the ?'lniei "bavc you over ,
reflected on tbo signification of thS WC.'d Ism? Too
study of a language is the beat course of logic. The mind I
seeks long and anxiously for definitions and deanuslrations,
when the word explains itself at once. When tho
French language added Ism to a substantive, it added to
it an idea of contempt and degradation. Tnere arc, to be
sure, exceptions, but let us see if the rulo will not hold
good. Beginning with the most elevated subject: Theos,
(rod; then think what The ism means. Royalty It do- |
grades into rovalism, and liberty into liberalism. And j
Foionism and ItaManittn, and nationalism, and popularism,
Sc., Ac?all these isms are detestable.''
Prince Meiternicb carried his dislike to Isms so far that
he objected to religion being called Catholicism, and ho
criticised the use of this word in a public letter of Donoso
Cortes. The reader will be pleased to have an opportune
cf reading his objection audl)ono30 Cortes' reply:?
I have such an antipathy to isms, and such a dread
of the latitude It gives to any word to which it Is afllxed,
that I cannot tolerate It even in words that seem little
likely to submit to any great alteration?such as kings,
monarchy, country. In the course of my long life I Davo
looked with suspicion upsn partisans of royaiism and patriotism.
I object even to Cathohcism. The Catholic '
church is a power that can bo strictly defined, and therefore
fully comprehended, whilst Catholicism comprises
pet eons and things more or less Cathelic than the church
and its visible head. So with royaiism; seme who profess
It are more or less royalists than kings or monarchies. J
Ism suits Protestantism exactly, but not the Catholic ' "
Lhurch. There Is no equality la their respective bases. I
rn> > foundation of tne church is tha principle of I '
aethi, rity resting upon faith; tnat of Protestantism la sim- I
P'y prn"*to J"dffm0nt: It haB neither more nor less weight '
than an* other question submitted to Ireo examination.
And toll me iow nr)l Gallicanlsm lead to acnlam!' You I
may m&kc wl n ,^8e you P 3a8C of niy observations. If !
t seem to yon ,1 e*af!?nratc the dangers likely to '
result from the un of lil'B ,w,ora',,e'' 1110 80i I may j
'xamine your reawn, 1 Wl'" fran.,c 'm?artiaiity, aided by J
ny repugnance for orti*. wn' pewmum and nihilism.
Don."*0 Cortes replied:?
Whf a it la necessary as It?. n_ow-10 for 07ery
ae, we mm.' u?o language that ert "y ?aa uua?rst*nd.
it-try one understands by Catholicism.' 1 understand?
hat is to say, the doctrines taught bo ,? 0'*urch; by *>
ialism socia science as taught by aodlu i?8, and by phiosophism
philosophy as taught by the a1. oeal0S of 're# I
line lsBion. By tho help of th<#e words, wnloh have ;
t meaning fixed and universally undersh. >0d< f c*o
sxprcas ideas brioCy which other wis J w'ould r?yMrc
tedious and labored explanations. Fo> exam, i
pie, if In discussion I use philosophy In Place
of philosophism, I must specify what system of philosophy
I am contending against, for the Catholic church has
her philosophy, which I never attack. Bat when I say
philosophism, do explanations arc necessary to show that
andcr this same I am contending against the philosophy
of the partisans of private judgment. In the same way,
when I speak of social science, as the Catholic church has
a social science peculiar to herself, It Is evident that in
using the word socialism, I speak only of that false social
science taught by socialists. Isin is undoubtedly a sort of
euphemism?a delicate way of expressing folly or degradation?and
that It has been ap; Med to the best and noblest
things proves the imperfection of human understandings.
Thus deism and philosophism are always anl radically I
bad, although philosophy l3 a good thing, and God is perfect.
Lutburanism, Arlanism, Kantism, and all the Isms
whose radical is a proper name are generally detectable,
prim.lively and naturally. There is an unworthy royalism
and an unworthy patriotism, and humanitarianism
is as barbarous In sound as It is In meaning.
This is undeniable, but it is not less so, that the
force of truth has preserved Catholicism from any doubtful
or contumelious Interpretation. In this cate Ism is
only a convenient resource of language, which we eae
certainly do without, but which In any case cannot, lo
my opinion, bo productive of injury. There cannot bo a
false Catholicism; In the bosom of this i'ght every error,
and every tendency to error, Immediately receive# the
mm which at once give# the itgnal for rea?in anl faith
to be on their guard, as has happened on the first appearance
of cartesian Ism, janaenism, galllconism, Josephism,
r'gorlBm, mohlnism, lamennalslanism, globertism, k: ,
kc. Catholicism alone has continued to be always Cathode
dos030 cor re j.
'Your Highness reminds me or Josephism ?that is one
Of our grteviucea."
" Josephism," he replied, "Is the plague of Austria, and
all my lffe 1 have been fighting against It. Bat although
Prime Rinlcver, 1 was esp'.-clally Minister for Foreign Affairs,
and my loH^nc# was not paramount outside of my
own department. Therefore the public hold me responsi
ble for many things with which I bad Ilttlo or nothing to
do. Hut this Is an arooyanco to which all public men are
xpofc d My Oppn.ll. Ou to J H!.-pl)i*lB brought D13 into
rood ct with tb? must troublesome and obB'.inr.o antagoorg
at leant ojuui U) jours for obetlaacj and prlij U '
endeavoring to supplant UM divine Uw by Um human
lav. Nevertheless they looe ground, for the nattimal sentiment
of Austria and the Austrian dynasty roasts powerfully
against this great error aC the Emperor Joseph II.
Josepblsa la 10 its decline, or rather at its last gmp. You
must out imagine, however, that Joeephlam tiaa ever prevented
Austria from being Catholic?thoroughly and exclusively
Caiiiolic io its policy with regard to the Holy
See. Austria has no territorial ambition, and in Italy least
of alt 1 will be permitted to say In opposition to these
jwlilicul journals that talk of 'ambitious Austria,'
toot A%>trtn it saturated?she com absorb no more.
She ta great euough and rich enough; sho
has enough to do to preserve what she possesses. The
Emperor Francis often laid, He who proposes to add
to the Austrian possesions?even a village?I would distrust,
for he muxt be either a fool or on enemy. In
France you ail talk of maintaining, strengthening and increasing
your influence. You must augment French ailut-uce
la Italy, in the East, in Switzerland, ever/ where.
It is your constant unanimous Idea; and If your go van menlshad
it not you would Impose It ou them Nor,
there is nothing of that kind In Austria; ws have no su h
ideas. We protect and govern what we possess And the
Influence we desire to ex irctse In particular over the Holy
Father is to place him ia a position to preserve his dominions
and bis irecdiim.
I have related all that l'r.nco Hetternich sold to ms In
our first intoiview. I confess that he fascinated me, and
that all my preconceived ideas of the man gave way at once.
I saw a man pre occupied with theselence of government,
acting according to numamty and justice, studying ami
endeavoring to correct and transform, without deeu-oying,
relying on time and reason tor lucaess ratner than on
force? s man who, during forty years of power, had boon
guided Oy his conscience, and who could yield up the
power be bad so long exercised, and past from the court
into exile without permitting IhlB strange turn of fortuno
to disturb his mmd or trouble his heart. When I took
my leave he said to me again that he hoped he had always
been guided by a love of truth and by his coa
science "Thanks bo to God," added he, "I never bad to
wan inug w Kuyw ?i?i i auuuiu uu. i uavv riaua wua
out design or exertion ou my part, and without forgetting
for ,i moment tUU it was essential to know how to do
icLd When Ifcu moment arrived my reflection* have
not taken five minutes. I have sold to those interested m
the event?'This is what I think; this I can do?tnis my
cooscieuce forbids. Deliberate, and if ysu do not con
eider me usoful, do not encumber yourself with me.' "
The nest day I dined with the Prince, and the conversation
turned on different persons and things by turns.
Several trench names were mentioned, particularly those
that were celebrated in literature?such as Sue, Balzac,
and others, whom he appeared to bold in t' igbt estimation.
1 do nut remember m what connection the political advo
cate was mentioned. " I have seen him," said U. do
Metteruich, "he seems a heap of dirt ; one might say
that be was born o( dirt, as Vruus was of tbe loam of tun
??a." That led us to speak of the Jews, who have played
no inaighllicant part in the actual revolutions of Germany,
and who prepared the way fur them by the writings uf
their formidable and insolent pamphleteers. _ I saw that
the Prin:e knew ati these Jewish writers' (piumeu itSam.irie)
perfectly, even the most insiguifl.um of them,
wh.trier in France or elsewhere. Thus be knew that
W wrote for the good cause ; but ho sail that the
Jews who take ofllce are as faithful us the Jews who turn
Alter dinner, the Couniess Ztchy, mother in law of M
do Uotternich, a very pious hwy, Pegged mo to repeat to
the Prince the dcta'ls of what 1 bad been telling her of the
eJilas of the Jesuit mission among the galley slaves at
Toulon. Tbe recital into res toil bim, and he took occasion
to tcil me that, having stayed some time in that city, he
hac studied carefully the discipline of the bajne with the
as8stance of an intelligent physiitan. "Among other
observations of this physician," said he, "1 remember
ibis one?that suicides rarely occur.u) bagnu, or priaona,
and the reason he gave was, that thftcoudemnol are sup
ported by hope. Those who are seflienced tor a specified
time do not commit auiclae, because they expect to re
cover their liberty, and those wne are aeatenoed for life
do not, because they hope to be pardoned or to make their
"From whence it follows," said I, "that liberty la the
boon that men desire most ardently, and that the hope of
il a one renders the greatest evils endurable.''
" Yes," replied the Prince; " but when free they commit
suicide. Religion alone cau teach them to endure
liberty and life. "In Austria," he continued, after a
short pause, " there are no bagna, there are only prisons
whose government has been rr tigated perhaps more than
it should bare lieen."
" Yet, Prince?thecarcrredun."
"The car cere dure la tbe strictest government, but even
this has been mitigated. Those who have been punished
in libera! countries with solitary confinement find the
carcere duro bearable You recollect, I am sure, tho accounts
given by the political prisoners?"
"Yes, Prince."
He raised bis hand, with the forefinger extended, shook
bis head, GDd replied, "Not one word of troth in all that."
I locked at hlci with astonishment and incredulity. He
repeated the same gesture of denial, and repeated "Not
one word of truth."
"I certainly think," said I, "that tbere Is much exaggeration
in Andryane's account. 1 feel it. But Peilico?"
"Oh!" said the Prince with a grave smite, "ho has indeed
abused the Intellectual superiority with which God
endowed him, as he did the pardon which the Emperor
panted him, and he alone has been able to make from a
book of calumny a book of prayer."
"Prince," said I, "you astound me. Your Highness
must permit me to say that I cannot accuse Silvio Peilico
of having lied."
"That he wished to lie," observed therrince, "God
knows bci'er than I do, perhaps hotter than Peilico himself.
But thu"e are 1|M and treason In that beautiTul
book. Lies beca'jv^ 1110 facU are either invented or will^u,
because he had promised,
whuri he received pardon, to tu,s 8?vy
the Emperor, and to do nothing v." prejudice. SI'viO
and his accomplices had been coultmi^U1 fof conspiracy,
en Italian conapiracy; you know now what >'u" manna.
Ttcy intended to poniard the chief o Ulcers of ihc'??7?r(n"
mcLt, beginning with the archduke. They confesseu botb
the conspiracy and the projoct or assassination. TuT.7
were condemned to death, as they would bare been
by ary tribunal in the world. Under my long ministry
many hare been sentenced to death for conspiracies
of this kind, but not one has been executed. The sentence
of those gentlemen was commuted, according to
custom, to imprisonment for life (careers duro perj>*wl).
But this terrible careers duro was far from being aggravated
in their case. There is a uniform t** a", t'ne p|.j.
oners, but they were exemp* from wearing it; there is a
Cham, but tbis chain, Which reaches from the waist to tho
anc e, is a toy that would not fatigue n child. The diet is
uat to palatable as the ordinary prism diet, nevertheless
it. cau iie eaten; but to bring down to tho food of vulgar
eHri,.'1*18 patriots so pure and stomachs ao delicato could
not be U.*1u8ht of- A restaurant was therefore established
at SpielW*? aud lte prisoners were permitted to order
what they plesseJ for dinner?a permission which they
generally availed tha^^TSS of. The dungeon was a
light, airy room, und the "olltude or the dungeon was enlivened
by a companion?not ni?P"sed, but chosen. The
prison rules did not permit prison-?* to have books or
writing materials, but to poets and thinkers could we refuse
such a solace? They always bad bSoils, pens, ink
and paper.
"'How! you have read??''
"Iwasmysel.' astonished at it," said he. "I had already
met with many similar examples of impudence and
ingratitude, und 1 might have expected something. But
iu o Buipuacu bii i naa Known or couia expcct."
I repeat that I merely report the words of M. de Metternich,
without thinking it necessary to comment on
them 1 do not discuss. I lay before the reader testimony
the character and Importance of which he can appreciate.
"I believed formerly," said I, "that having spared the
Uvea of the prisoners of Spielberg, the Austrian government
bad formed the design of biuiifyiug them."
ncrrERyicH a>d oocht co.NFtLo.viBRi.
"You must at least accord to it the merit of not knowing
how to acoomplAh it, for many of those prisoners
tiavc written, some with talent, and all have given proeft
of a lively imagination. The truth is, only one of them
testified gratitude or behaved like a man of honor, and
be WIS the cnicf of tbe conspiracy, Count Confaionieri.
3ofore be was mixed up with these adairs 1 bad known him
well When be was tracalerred from Milan to Spielberg
w passed through Vienna. I went to the Emperor and
laid to him?'Oonialoniori is here ; will your majesty
jernut me to converse with him? I would endeavor to
iraw from him some information, which will, perhaps,
lerve in future to prevent the recurrence of theee mal
iom-piracies, and to preserve, at one and the same time,
ho public peace and tbe lives of many unfortunate men.
be leve th.it too sentlmonta of Confaionieri are so noble
hut I would not apply to him In vain." " Yos, certainly,"
Aid the Emperor; "go nnd see him; I permit you; and
na; you obtain what you desire." I went to tho police
jea. << -tera, and there 1 found Confaionieri, seated on a
ir' t an apartment Itke tb's in which we now are. He
rot |c?t .Iter aupuer. "Count, ' said I to him; "I coma
o a* ireta myself to your reason and your heart. You
laru formed an enterprise which c&nuot succeed; those
?ho a'tempt it after you will fail as you have done, and
nust submit to the severe Tate which is before yon. 1
one now to ask you If you think it rigat that
ll.ers tbouid fall where yon have faileu, cr if
re ought Dot to seek, rather, you as >n
talian, and I as Minister of tho empire, some moan: (for
loubileas there are some) of avoiding tho like follies and
he like catastropho*. Yonr 'Me is tiled. I do net come
o annihilate hope, neither do I cone to promise % pardon,
rhict le any case would be very alight and 7ery distant.
Tou hare nothing to hope, and nothing te '.ear. Unreinersation
will be like that of the living with the dead, for
on are dead. You can do nothing for yourself, but you
nay warn others that they may not die like 7011. In the
Bterost of humanity, then, tell me, do you know what
be Emperor should do to destioy the plague of conspiray
' iic-ioro all things," and Uonftlonierl, " I wish to
ay to you that I aocepi my fate, and that 1 have deserved
iad the r.ghlto be more severe. I Lb ink bim for hiving
>eoo merciful." After these preliminaries. we talked to
jethar quietly, and [ will B17 nobly, and like Christians,
mttl one o'clock in the morning, tie spoke to 'no in ail
liicertty, and gave me soon ad vi ae which did infl
iltely more credit to bis patriotism and bis reason
ha 0 the rash Intrigues into wnich he regreted
that be had been drawn When I left him he retewed
the testimony of bis resignation and grateful reipect
lor the Emperor I told mm that 1 was happy to
tnow the condition of his mind and sou'.: that I saw in it
it once a strength to support '.ho rigors of a pr.soc , .11 *
ladder by which he might leave it. He noyer c> -.god;
he was worthy of pardon before and after rev... eg it,
and he alone. But the others, before publishing, left in
my hands evidence against what they have sr.;t .1 I
neglected to publish It. for Austria does not like to defend
herself in this way. However, I bsvo this evidence, and
it will one day sec the light "
It" I*rince, it '* too late already. The prisoners' writings
have been read by every one, and the result has been
more disastrous tor -Austria tba 1 the loss of a battle."
111 do not pretend to think otherwise. But oven If the
imperial government had coaneuted to wage a papor war
against adversaries it bid pardoned, it would havs been s
useless humiliation, for the battle would have been lost
just the same I believe thai .or some time to come
governments will lose every bsttlo in which tosy engage
age. r.' revolutions, and that even victories will bonib<H
t? t'.an defeats. Against rerolntio-s ore-j governm int
fif bis in an'ii my ? country. Tt.e decreet of Juries hate
r,; t t'-e rati '.I >n of public rpinljn, atd H the Hecii*n,;o is
n Vrv'/t.L . _ .ncd'..-.t-';, ". ir tcrcr or v? rj.
2 4a coucUiUcKi Yj iayw hceojust, and although it may
fONDAY, JPLY 18, 1859.
appear for (he time to have been a toeing game, pet in after
life, at my age, or in any poeittoo, a man anil approt j
of it, aud say If it was to be done over again bo would ?c
In toe tame manner."
untlrmk-u'e opinions or thi hcnuam** rhvoldtion?
We spoke afterward* of the Hungarians "Da you
know," said the l'rinoe, "what haa bappoued to Zeoheuyi?
Be ha* loal hi* *euae*. He wai a liberal man?oaturady
well disputed?a aorl or Lafayette, and an eoouomist. I
had a long conversation with him one day. 'My dear
Count,' eald 1 to him, 'you with to benefit your couutry,
but you are doing It a great deal of harm The matori *1 ud vantage*
thai you would proeuru for It iajurei It morally,and
the moral evil will remain, while the material advantages
will be lost in the terrible oonvulaiona of oivil war. Hungary
i* not ripe, aud no country aver will be ripe tor
the ideae you propagate. You will be outstripped,
B?nt adrift, deeerted. The popularity you have obtained
by tlaiiering their paoaloos you will loae in the
Oral attempt to restrain thorn' llo did not listen to me.
and the miachief I bad foreseen happeued in spile of all
the obstacles I bad thrown in its way. About that time
ZechOnyi booame Insane, aud it was necuisary to confine
him. He has some lucid intervals, in whiuh be speak* of hut
couutry and what has been cone there, at lirst in a melancholy
strain, with a feeling of gentle sadoesa, then he becomes
excited, says be was warned, that l'rinue Metiernich
told him bow it would be, that it was his conscience
that apoke?that he knew it well, and that he was lost bo
cause be did uot listen to it. He trembled, he shrieked,
he foamed at the mouth, he endeavored to indict bodily
injury on himself and others, and at last it was fuuud
l ecrsstry to put on a strait waistcoat. It was a mournful
triumph for me, added M. d? Metleraioh, to
be always Justified by the very men woo opposed mo. I
had a similar conversation with IHtihimy. He was not
worthy of pity. He has done, and he wished to di, mdcifeiy
more harm than Zechenyl. 1 sent him word to
come to my residooce near Vienna, where I spoke to him
cordially and seriously, but I saw that I made no lmpres
siou on him. ' Count Uattbiany,' amid I, when he was
taking leave, ' you will porsevere in your present evil
course, sod Ipredijt ' 'What!" 'That you will be
hanged.' "
I aaaed the Prince what he thought of Koeeuth, aud he
nniaitfA/l in Ann word. whic.h did nnt iniii.'filrt m vhpo hiirh
opinion of this demagogue, or rather which planed him on
level wttb Ballhlany. I continued tne conversation:
" It teemi to me," laid I, " that he possesses enth
" He ia rot even an enthusiast," replied the Prince.
' and among tbe military leaders7"
" Toete is none of any account. Thore are some soldier*,
but no men."
These were the most important topics touched upon
during this conversation, wh.ch interested me quite as
much oa tbe first. Prince Hettornicb does not declaim,
he C4ii,verst-s, and converses to perfection, wandering at
will from anecdote to anecdote, aud making irtle Jigresil.ws
in the spirit of that upon isms. His momolrs
would be delightful to read If they preserved this piquant
simplicity. 1 must note here the distinction he drew bo
twenu principle and doctrine?two things of which peoplo
Speak a great deal, which they refer to frequently;
which they often confound, and which it is necessary to
d'stiDjniiih between carefully, because, in fact, they are
Oft''!) very much alike
"Principle and doctrine," a&ld he, "are two pieces of
ordnance of equal calibre and charged with the s.nne
kind of ball. But principle is a cannon turning on a
pivot, it can fire in every direction and strike everything
that opposes it. Doctrine, ta a cannon placed in an embrasure,
it can only fire in one direction, and that straightforward.
When 1 was in London, I conversed a good deal
with si. Guizot, who was always a little of a docuinaire.
On many subjects we thought alike, but on otaera we
could not agree. How do you thtnx I parried bis argument*?
I simply placed myself beside the embrasure
and raid, 'Fire sway my friend, I am under shelter.'
And nt reality I was under shelter, and although he knew
well bow to make the meat of feeble arguments, his
strongest ones could not reach mo. 'Does this distinction
satisfy you?"
"Perfectly, Prince."
"Wcli, I give it to you."
.At lie commencement of my third visit, the conversation
returned to the all'alrs of Italy aud ol the Church.
The Prince again bore witness to tbe Catholic feeling of
Austria. " Like all the nations of the world," he said,
"Austria Is interested in tbe indepecdeace of the sovereign
Pontiff, and she will commit a great fault not to respect
it. A superior degree of understanding is not necessary
to comprehend that that independence which Intern
is us so strongly does not interest other peoplo less.
This is what 1 have always endeavored to bring to me
comprehension ol' those persons with whom I have had
occasion ol .resting that subject of first importance to
Europe 1 have not founded the necessity of tbe iiborty
of the rontiff uhd of the maintenance of the Pontifical
State on spiritual reaaons, which those feeble politicians
would not admit, or which they would treat with
mockiiy. I have said to them: You cannot deny facts.
You cannot deny that Europe cannot exist without Christianity,
and tnat consequently the chief oi the Christian
religion is a very great and very powerful personage in
Europe, whom no ooe has troubled impunity. That
it is necessary that this gie&t and powerful personage
should occupy some place, you cannot deny. It must
then be eithei bis own place or that of somebody else.
If b? occupies tho domatrs of somebody, ho Is in the
power of somebody. Rut I, who hnvo Catholic subjects?
that is to say, who dopend on the Pope?how could I,
without exposing myself to very great inconveniences,
tolerate that the Pope should have a master? If the Pope
should be placed in a dependent posit'on, that person,
Bilmflwi.e im rwicrhf hfl nn whom ho Honorsila. trrmirl ho
mister in my dominions, and in many c*ses. easy to be
for "seen, be would be more maater than myself."
"It is not as a Catholic,'' be added; "it is as tbc Emperor
of Austria that I wish 'bit tbe l'ope should live in the
t'ope'R on country,and not in the dominions or another."
"Acre is a point which I advise you novcr to uecicct in
your polemics. You seize on the understanding or men In
presenting these evidences to them."
"Iideedl" I exclaimed.
"Ah! yes. Indeed! When It is necessary to produce evidence,
it is demonstrated in vain, inasmuch as those to
whom it is offered do not wish to see; and many of those
. ( wish to see It make baste loosely to forget it to com,'
- o who resolutely denied it. Notwithstanding,
f' will always be, consciences which will
there are yet, ... ...
be clear, end every clei' wvasuicnco IS gj} (liW?vs
te strong."
I had a conversation with *poiion one day when the
l'ope was at Savonna, a prison*' of Franco. Napoleon
was not wanting in a certain affection io* me, and he knew
that tbe Pope honored me with some evidence. He
called mo one day aud said to me?"Do me a service!. I
am tired of the captivity of the l'ope. It is a situation from
which nothing good can arise, and it is necessary that it
should not be prolonged. I wish you to go to 3avonna.
The l'ope grants you his friendship; you will speak to
him on my behalf, as a common friend; and you will Induce
him to accept a plan which I have arranged to settle
that unfortunate affair."
I observed that the authority of toe Emperor would be
neoiistcry for me. "Do you refuse me that," he replied.
"It Bcems to me that you will be in no way compromised
In employing your efforts for the peace of the world." "It
Is that," 1 continued, smiling, "I doubt if that is ready
peace which your Majesty proposes to the Pope. Will you
make your pian known to me?" "Here it is," said N'apolrvitt
in 11 varir trarmnil mannas <?Tn tntnwa lha tJan
the Chinch would not be any more at Kerne, Dut at
Par la."
I -cm id sot restrain a movement of surprise and a smlla
of incredulity.
"Yes," replied that formidable mas, "I will bring tba
Pope to Paris, and I will establish the See ot tlje Church
there. But I wish that the sovereign poatifTshould be independent.
I will give bim a comfortable establishment
near the capital. I will give bim a chateau, and In order
that b? might bo In bis own bouse, X will make the territory
for tome leagues arouud big palace neutral ground.
Be will there have his college of cardinals, his corps diplomatique,
his congregations, bis court-, and, so that he
should want for nothing, 1 will guarantee bin an annual
endowment of six millions. Do you think be will retuse
"1 am sure he would, and ail Europe would support him
In bis refusal. The Pope would llnd, not without reason,
that he would be as mucb a prisoner with your six millions
as be is at Savonna."
Napoleon declaimed very loudly?abounded In
argument, and alleged a thousand stunning reasons.
At last I said to bim : "Your Majesty has
drawn a secret from mo. The Emperor of Austria
has had the earns idea as yourself. Be sees that you do
not wiBh to send back tbo Popo to Rome: he does not wish
the Pope to remain in prison; and he also thinks, nut withstanding,
of making provision for bim Your Majesty
ksows the royal chateau of Scbconbruun. Too Ktnpo
ror will give it to the Pope, with a territory of ten or ttfteen
leagues, entirely neutral, and be will add an allowance
of twelve million" of revenue. Tf the Pope accepts
that arrangement, would you consent?"
Be perfectly understood the apologue, but he wan tba
stronger, and he wished to have toe opinion of Plus
VJ1 on his pbui. The sovereign pontiff replied, as I had
so easily foreeecn, That Savonna appeared to him as gol
a prison as Paris: that he was there, moreover, in the
centre of the church; tbat bis conscience was htu free territory;
that six millions a year were not necessary for his
wants, and th.it twenty sous a day, which be would
thankfully receive In voluntary alms from Christians,
were suillclent for him.
tiik KisohOM or rrrsa Italy.
Tho convorsal.on imruadiatuly reverted to tbo aTairs
Vk 1UC rnun: :i|-wou wiiu yBIW *- lutr-uipv ut iwi.ia',
unltarianism. "Or all the cbtmoroa of the t'mc," bo (laid,
"perhaps that 18 tbo boost stupid. That which at the most
mifebt be conceived was a kingdom of upper Italy,
formed of Lombardy and Piedmont; but union is opposed
to tht character or the tare peoples. At CLio bottom
of all those patriotic pretences which were purposely
held np, the illusion oould be clearly aeon. Political
towns bate each other?commercial towns wish to destroy
car.?! other. Milan wishes to absorb Turin, Gonoa wishes
to devour Venice."
rag Fosmo.v or rates.
If Venice lcavoo the Austrian dominion, she will fall
Into immediate and absolute ruin. Genoa and Ancona
are not ignorant of ibat. I would like very much, on
my own account, that Vcnlca should not be necessary to
Austria as a military position, and that it could he abandoned,
that would be a great relief to the treasury.
The Imposts el Venice merely suffice to pay for cleaning
the rtnrls each yoar To keep up the city, to prcscrvo
the palace* from falling to ruin, and to fl'l up the lagojDR,
the F-mperor bas to expend many millions every year.
The breakwater which is on the poiut of being completed
to prevent Use harbor from being choked with sand hag
cost thl-:v millions. It is not Venleo herself thit could
perform ruck gTcat works; nolthcr will It be tbi kingdom
of I'pptr Italy. Tho rival cities would pin a atop to It. I
Taat groat wreck cannot remain standing hot under the
protection of a great empire.
tits swiss soyn?.!>nrer>
"Your Highness," said I to tbe Prince, "will permit mo
frankly to address you all the questions which I desiro. I
would like yon to tell me how it Ig that Austria has aban- {
doned the Henderbundl"'
Voluntarily. When I gas the people were greatly
agitated In tho PrAeahnit cantons to obtain a united
c?i:*tttdt in with ths s ow of cn.ehirg the Catho
Hot, 1 Saul i\ nr. tbe llrst a word which In familiar to you
is ( an"?I 'r. * 1'aosn w.-p in fact the uytnntomn nf
nu ( yd ns'fli I b".d ba l the iimc and occafiiil to stithy.
T l.i'l re eht to -h?elr to'1 fi?rern,n of Tho roc* urarv b*r
t piadcnt myc, '.res. 1 s? d to the people o( I.accrue, (woo ,
wort besides perfectly In their " Do nut call upon t
the Jesuits; do not five to the |Ks?r*1* '-hat protest of a
roaring aad of obtaining aupport In w^0 fo"J' ?r opinion." Ii
I aald the same Uung to the Nuooto, la Switzerland. who t
approved of my view; to the I'ope, who . tpproved; to Ui-> v
General of the Jesutta, who alao approv.V ,jf " U wis t
not that 1 had lira leaat reeling agaioat the /tsuits. As a y
Obrlallan, 1 venerate them, as a statesman, I v1Jl' ? them ;
one ot the grandeat social Institution* whiea baa ever I J
been realized in the world. But their niuno w v >u arm i t
which I ()Dd ll prudent out to leave to the patera 08 " J
vagabond* and (be prejudice* of fool*. tl
l'bu government of Lucerne tonic no hoed of my ?<K'L tl
*el* Instructor* were required for tbeir youth and Mwh' fi
clergy, It believed that there was a necessity ' i eal&oitsh
its rtgbt. It tnereforo demanded the Jesuits, and with
such insistence mat ihoGouerai of IhftOompauy of Jean* th
louno bunaelf obliged conscientiously to give way, what- "
ever might occur, aud he foruaaw whet would be the re pi
suit The Jesuits entered Into i.ncerne. 1 esborted the et
canton to maintain wbat they Lad done m the perhaps ie - w
opportune but togiumsie oxoiCisenf their undoubted so- bj
vereigniy. sy
tnwortd'noNa wru nunci
At the same time 1 enceavorod to oome to an agreement
w lib Frauce for the protection of the rfciniorhu.il, and '.-? 111
hold up tue head agaiuet the radicals. I 'ound the French **
J;ov*rntuent, I am bound to aay, very enlightened, very 111
oya:,vory resolute?in short, lu the best disposition poo- P1
alble. It recognized the rights of O&vholios, ll wished to fr
, protect and maintain the agreement. But these pre..- "
minariu* Mopped, aud when it It was necessary to act, I n
was just in the middle of the affair. 01
1 said to M Guizot: "Let us proceed In common; let as ?'
intimate to the radical can to us that they must lesvs the 01
Souderbuud in peace. An energetic declaration will be ^
sufficient, I hope, If they see that wo are r ' '''?pooed to ; JPJ
icoede All tnc l'owors are In acoord with us except one \
only?England : we can pars by ner." u
Howssof my opinion. But we soon had the certainty &
that our deciarauons would not intimidate, and Unit
more energetic measures wuutd be necessary. Iptoposed 8'
to H. Guizot to enter Into Switzerland immediately, in b
equal lorco on the stme day?60,000 men on each side. cl
M. Guizot found himself before the Chambers, ho heard "
-* - .W.. ? _? V.. It
IUO ?: ; HfUBW OI IUO MJIJMI1HVU VUD IJiUI '/l ?UO |/l ?)oo?
the tumuiti of discussion. 11a hesitated. ' Go on Hint,'' ni
be Mid (u me;" 1 give you nay word of honor 1 will come ?'
after, Tbe pretext of your intorvonuou m ueooeeary to I*
authorize mine." J1
I eaw m my turn where that would carry us. " No;"
Mid 1 to biai. " I do not doubt your word; moreover, I P
do unt doubt your iblenltons; but I very strongly doubt P
your coneUtuUooal possibilities. You will engage la it, 1 P
am cont'aoed; but uo person, cot even yourself, could 11
tell me under what title you could enter If I took b
tbu lead. Will you come to uid uie to subdue
the radicals, or will you come to aid "
the ranicals to cru?h the Sonderbund? I cannot face the?e v
cooipucut one; I cannot capote myself m i..o name mo- b
oicni to nave the radicals and France upon my band*. See c
well that I bind myself to you for a plain action, common *
anu decisive, beiere all tho world. Wowillentor at the 4
same u,indent, and proclaim the same viow."
He did not wish to understand mo at all; aud I saw ?
that we cnuld do nothing In snort, we did nothing, and ''
ttat was tbe signal lor the fall of the govornineatF *j
The wetliable calmstiophe had arrived; for a long
tune before political science could de nothing more than *
to delay me hour. On Uiat cocaslon M. Ouicot failed in
resolution before public spirit in France; perbups also t 11
fore tbe atMTOin?ole policy of England, whxh d:;eirod "
everything that. ban occurred. "And yet," s-id I, "wtcit "
will become of Germany? what will become of Franco? ?'
what wiil w.me out of all ihls?" ?
I do not like, be smilingly replied, questions which c m- a
pel mc t..o much to scow tbe bottom of my bag. I do not r
see clearly into the future. The present state of all org ?
disconcerts all prcTialune. What will be the result of all
that? There will be nothing good. That is what I have
to say. Do you pay attention to all the changed "of tho
Austria has not finished, neither has Gormony. There
are two mobsters wbicb menace Herman/, und one. if not 1
the other, must devour It. 1 believe that we might say
both of them. Tnr one is Teutoniam, tho other :s Prussian
ism; the one and the other strongly imbued with Jacobinism
and with Protestantism. That creates "isms''
enough tor an unfortunate country.
In regard to France, It Booms that she has a groat many
chances to withdraw herself; she knows, howov?r, it must A'
be by revolutions. In tbeee her education lsootnplcte. She oi
is within herself, like a grisetto in a student's ball; she
kno v* tbe customs belter than a woman who finds herself
mere tor m* nrsi time.
There arc revolutionary elemonts in Germany which ?
have not yet come luto serviee and which are very
formidab'e. The Jewish element, for example, It 11, I l*
believe, tnoficiiBivo in your country. Zt
It ie unknown. The Jew*, except In certain corners of
the provineer vbore they carry on commorce, have no "r
particular tol* In Franco. Those who have appeared arc
incidents, and are not properly facta and signs. The ,
Jewish venom is not felt in the unbelieving mass.
In burmauv it is altogether dilleroot. The Jews occupy .
almost the first role, and are revolutionista of the first .J
brood. Tcey have writers, philosophers, poets, orators, '
publicists, bankers, and in the head and heart all the '
weight of their ancient ignominy. They will have a ro- !
doubtable day for Germany, followed perhaps by a droad- j
fui day lor themselves. %
Will your Highness now permit me to draw your alton J
tion to something else. You know how wo are prcoccupied
with what we call the Oriental question. Wnat
will be the feelings of Austria towards Russia In the fu- ^
ture events of Constantinople f
Austria is engaged by motives the most pressing, the *
most essential and the most desirable, to maintain the In- ,,
dependence and to prolong the existence ol', the Ottoman
Empire At Constantinople sue is too boru adversary ,
of Russia. Between Russia and her there will not bo any ,
agreement on that question. There is one now?it Is ,
recognized necessity?the settled understanuing of doing ,
nothing, and of adjourning every complication. Russia, ,
Which von believe !? ?> ??ueb pw?o<i tn take Constantinople,
ts cot pi usacd at and for two reasons. the first ,
Is that, in general, '.jo beir at inustai has not that eager
ness of laying ^an'de on hlB inheritance which is generally ,
seen in hci's by testament. It is not generally tne natu- (|
ral and. infallible heirs who poison tneir progenitors; it Is c
those who do cpt Inherit but by virtue of a gift, suBceptibio
of be log altered Tho second reason for which Russia
did nolo.-? Vic'the '-" asameai which ,
. -d#on "6 immffise VJU?- -with
that advancement would cast upon her. Horatuu. ? - ?? . r
Europe would be multipled in a mist Aggravated manuef, ^
and, at the same time, she would haTP thrve capitals. ^
Two are already more tnan enough. f
The empire at Constantinople will be the certain ruin 01 1
St. Pcto.-sburg aud of Morcow. Consequently with a groat ?,
deal o! ailau* on her hands in Europe, there wiil be a great n
deal of discontent also in the empire. Before removing
god coming to take up a residence on the Bosphorue the ol
Em;*ror would haw a great many quretions to settle at I
home; many joints la regulate: of which there are none w
of little importance. lie knows that perfectly; and tbero si
are thorns alto, terrible thorns in his beautiful and pro- ni
digiocs crown. lie waits then, with much freewill; but ui
you K/enchcieu wish that ho would make haste. In ai- r<
ways repeating that he wishes to go to Couctintiuople, bi
tba' he is preparing to do so soon, that he has but one step ct
to make, ana that he is not bold enough to make it, ai
you txc to uis vanity, you raise bis pride, you eacoutago di
him despite of h.mseif to attempt that wk-'cii alarms you, ni
and, 01 try faith, ho must not beastontshod if that great th
cntcrj r.^u which he wishes to clothe with so much rare, sii
so much j.rudinco, so much heaviness, should bo gi
o?e day resolved by a rash action, come what will. j<
The following Saturday I dined a second time at tbe tli
house of M ue Metterulcb. I was ai the a. <o of the Rr
Princess, a very noblo lady, who hal not loot ail her cele- th
brand beauty, Groat, proud in stature, in lang -uja. in
attitude aid sentiment?jierhapE a little excess in lur L<
majesty. But one is Uur.hed with the tonderneg3 which
fine cxoiuiif co tier &asoari<i?a great deal older tuau she
la?and ?. iih the respectful affbctlcn which eho renders in!
him. Besides, sbe did not crush mo with the weight of 8b
her err.wo; and 1 fait obliged to her V bo classed among th
ibe sons of God, as La Bruyure says, who arc complaisant
aud simple for the children of the earth
1 8poke to her ol the respect with which tho Prince In- an
pired ine, atidol the recognizance which heal ays accord- it
ed me, as well as of the kindness which ha always mani- on
Tested towards me. " cv
"He is Eogo'>u,"sha eaid tome. "I c.anrot holp," I th<
continued,"txpiersing ta your JiLghnrsa b^w much I rc of
gret being conderanoit to see that grand and nob.o charac- XL
ter aliu/ k< d and misunderstood ne be lcos be ?n." At this ah
expression tears started to her eyes. "Aggressions and th
political ba-red ar nothing,-'she said, "That which <? It
aard to suffer are the studied outrages of ingratitude. It no
is the iDEc'.rncc of robelhous vmit's who have become w<
mora wicked than they ought to be after having liv
been e.oi e servile than was required of thom. in
They have known the opinions of the I'rluce, clc
they have a thousand times experienced his ten- wc
dcrnoss of heart, they have had the moEl convincing
proofs of his loyal wisdom, and at the same ttaio they wi
oalumclale his understanding and his heart." coj
"Madams," eaid 1, "it le necessary to follow tho example sawhich
be gives you, and forgu the rebellion of those an- mi
fcrtuaa'e creatures, even thru? vtry exlstcnco." sci
"I cannot do so,"she replied, weeping bitterly; "that tiv
Is too much cowardice and perfidy. History will not mi
avenge us, and It will not know that admirable hoari coi
which they have dctamed. They have dared to speak or ml
patriotism and of humanity. It is tho Prince that has coi
loved and served his country, and who has suffered In not mi
being able to procure from tho world the good It promised ha
these odious liars " mi
run ikkom ck a psins kimstir orkiren. ob
"At the time of tboso affairs of ibe Swiss, where all tho 1
ruth has commenced, the Prince, so ar. to bo more free, w?
had retired to a little villa wnieh we had near Vienna, ha
Tliera be labored day and eight, without so In
much as taking air in tho garden. One. even- aui
leg be raid to me?Lei us go to the coun- 1v
try; my bead la on fire?I cannot bear it any thi
lccgcr; It ia necessary that I must tako the air. Every plf
hope or a desirable ioiiition waa then annihilated. France wi
refuwd ber concurrence. M. Guizot, before acting in ala
1 unisut with the Emporor, aakel bia permission to give an
bim a box on the car. We went out and walked some of
time in silence. All or a sudden Clumeut, awaking from en
bia ruvcry, *hld to me:?'Now I comprehend that prayer br
of Abraham when be bcseeched God to take him wltb bis ba
fathers into tbo bosom of eternal reet. I would wish to coi
die, and not to see the evils whlct nothing can again pro- f're
vent. lly r6U is finished; tho part of a'l human wlslom a I
is achieved; force Is going to rolgn bore below, and the sit
world Is lost, because right without strength will not be be
an) thing but a laughable object.' Ho wept, without be
th'nklug of biding bis tears from me. Never h id he glvoa mi
way so much to bis own misfortunes. Ho did not weep ca
becaure bis s-gaclty waa hum'liated, but because justice to
was defeated." to
It war thus that the Pr'nocps de Mettcrnlch praised her so
husband, and I bavo found that that commondation was sn
truly that of those who love. th
After diauer the Prlnco showed us a beautiful medal, In
having on the reverse two figures? I'olisy and Justice? na
with that device, In which bo has desired to express his fin
thoughts on tho art of governing?Kraft im Rczhl (power 11
in right;. The medal was offered to him by the Austrian to
Orryw IK) Irmatirjue en the celebration of the twonty fifth d<
anniversary of his administration. th
As that was my last visit, he renewed tho obliging as wl
uionce of thft pleasure which be had in seeing mo. He fu
rec< mtnended me to perm vnrc in tbo idea of wh'nh the ah
frhiwTi had undertaken the rtcfooce ' The t?uth," ha kii
aid "is wltb von, and must remsin, but let It remain h<
with an increasing iDoaurMum, stum guou me**, in oraor in,
? make their w * y, do not require the m4 P'1' 1
rill gire you oue of the principal preoepu ?*h'rh 1
Barred In my long career Men in r ion 11> L' '?
ben roason to be subjugated and violated Tur ,T1 '*
riM anil lbs moat rlghlooua with u> belree I/Mr* I' "*,
hen, with the do?,r ulwtji o,ho, anil rv n.'tn i wU"S
ou abali writ*, never to regret a word bl uiee mil "
The couvvrsaiiuo now became general Weapoke mud
orrphlsro, acJ of ih > ohatinary of Amman jansti ll?
ild ine bat be bid airuggled lor twelve years to bring bask
osepbisltc logtelalou to oilboloiy on one ogle prist-bat
of the wvrriages of miunre Willi w the < <>n*ml o(
loir parouU, anich .1 annulled, 1 believe wilhoul mm*
niK mkttshkmi mew
He Joked alio on the long uiaaortatioas of the joeronla oa
k? llntUmieh system. "I study my r.gfct," ha sail,
irt'i-D I know It well; I try to mainlain it or to mike d
ara.ll, b I always having ruspeot to u?<?n, and to iba cir
imstaicea and time. 1 bare a principle oarer to bnag
yaair in oootact with impossibilities. That is all my
stem." At the bottom it has nothing of the Metier mat
In concluding now, after soma daya, my reraan
:mcs of the wov*a of M. do Msll-'ra.c*, 1 bad a
Up snUnsaa uiaiip>^> ?a- ? ?- -
triable ati inaa oau b*?but to the ml. or ! hi bo nor.
a thought lor tho wit Is charmrng I have <* the
oteuslon of judging hint at lb? dts'aa-w at which I am
cm him. Notwithstanding, dour ooQirnaUxu each ?f
ro io thrw hou?'it wtili a nuui vht oooftriM troiuiu
ly.Uwve some thing* which wera aoi vary dees u? ba
wily Been. M. da McUorffiob baa eortaiaty baaa aa
most and clevsr minister. With hla atomy and baa
ity, ho ha* cortaiuly oominitled laotia. Woo would oat
?ve dons ao In forty years of arim'alatraUoo' li aa
sara to me that bis prluo.pal fault baa baaa hia wisdom,
here was, despite or what ha said, a Better u A sjeuos- at
Ib, to bavo do system; and of all the systems tnal
>uld allure man's reason, that, psrhapa, u u>a meat
JSC. It is reaeon alone which goes on trn* iroai Uta
earns of principle, mailing in one day tb? day of ttoago
ut an instant. It must not be stubborn, but it mum not
lit pcrsuveraaonslubbornecs; It must not be no'rat, bat
must not call firmness violence; It mutt aocommedaM
self to the timet, to circumstauoea, to men; bat it mnst
ol permit the limes, nor ciroumslances, aor mea ta
rerpower truth add justice. Bui the dsp-itary of
ower owes to the people truth and Justine be. r ropona
ad peace, of whlob, betides, they are the oaly eertaia
ascs. The constant occupation of not underlining tea
oseibilltica, and the preservation, the continuance of
eace, (lots not always prevent great fhsiU; It oorta'.aly
revents great works, and groat actons Waal Is an
nposeibiiil)? And how many acta of injuatlce have been
iddon under that flame?
M tho Prince de Mettnrnlcb haa been tho chief of n
cbool of politics which bavo definitely. ur> ler the eonoclenl
nauiu ot/uih itcoamfih, a',copied all errors. Tueg
tivo connected the European world without many je.ta
ven to ite ruia; thty have oot even nad tha conrapi to
itcmpt to come out or tho ditcb the mournful o iueoicuc
-b of which they should have foreseen.
Has M do Untturuich been more culpable than tha
.hers? Must ho have gone with tho t.i?> -a in vrbt. h be
ved ? Hid ou did not eee what ho ought to ao, or was A
ot possible to do that which ho has not done? That is the
ifflcult que tion which hisloHsss will n?k. For my part,
have wen li m ca:m, peaceable, merciful, honest, IduiIiioni
and Christian like. All that he 'old me appeared M
te to be wise and rellecting. Nothing, hest les, ol a coot
ion character tiansplred. Atter the daze ing effect of
re first Biirpriee nothing wss left mr but ttre lucid *nd
old impression of an excellent book on morality wr.uoa
y a l'rote.laut, It lacks the boat, tho sparkling views?
:e I know not what?which penetrates in the dep h of
lluge, which animates, which inflames, which confirms,
nd which will not be forgotten, 'fhts is what I erne
iouicu hue UUIOI un; lu uuariug l-uuujj uurM?, WHO in ??
ven a statesman.
Vcwi from Nortbern Mexico.
UONTKItKT June 10, 18M.
he Vrf at of OA. Mirairum?&pxrutvm of the frrces of
Zuazua and nsnajota?Rrfrteil IiittU letHeen //inajotw
and Jl/argtiet, and Defeat of both Partite?Mexican
OJjicert Yintirg the United States to Purchase Arms, etc.
Tho news from Use seat of w?r c? ;ivi some sensation
nong those who are mostly Luleregied in the uuoseas at
ib or U10 other of the parties.
A short i.ipi j ago we had news or a battle in which cot.
iramon was defeated by Qinsjosa, whom Zuazua had
int to meet some reinforcements that ware coming tram
orelitt. They were not strong enough to come without
sing 'table to be fallen upon by the enemy, therefore
lazua sent the division or Hinajeia to strengthen thees,
i thai there would be no danger by tbo way ; this dirton
while oo .he road towards Morelia bad an cugage>
icntwlthu.o division of Col. hiramon; tue latter wa
sfeated cud ble soldier* dhpeiscd.
Alter this battic the reactionists cauio with a stronger
iree, commanded by Gonc-al Murqucz. Ho occupied
te country between Zuazua aud Hinajosa, and contauently
the' correspondence with the latter was cut off,
ad now some two or three weeks havo passed without
njlhlng di diiitu being known There bare, however.
)ne several persons arrived at the camp of General
uazua, some of whom beiODged to the division of Iltnama;
they report that the division which Hlnajosa co.mlands
had a battle with the reaction! its under the continue
of Murquez, they say that it was a severe battle,
nd that the libcru's were defeated, thoy themselves
ring a part of the cisptised. Gtners came from Marquez,
nd report the same battle, but s&id that the reactionists
rere defeated and dispersed. Thus we have news Irom
tic dispersed or both parlies, afl reporting that thoy thewelves
were defeated; and in tho absence of official news,
hese reports c .use much uneasiness. I suppose that
Hero is no doubt but tbat a battle was fought, an J that
He two parties ran away, not leaving any one to repo't
liB victory, oounetjuettilj the two paxlios report them- B
elves de'eowd.
Notwithstanding tbat some of those dispersed wers of
ho reactionary paity, yet tbey come to San I.uis I'otosi, I
rhlch le occupied by the liberals. They do not fear the I
iberals, becauso it is well known tli.it they wero forced I
nlo tho service of the reactionists, and serving only under I
bligation, tbey do not expect to bo punis'.l3j for wh it Uifc# I
ould not avoid. * I
1 mrlng the timo that Hlnojosa ^ uprated froa
be rest of Zuazua's forces, '.aft reactionists have drawn
1-tror to General'/,unzut and he not being: willing to risk, a
luicwitucniy a STi.ta rel c,Ve<f "
ion I.uis PotoHi to avu.- * can collect his
orccs. There has been a ditlioulty between Zuazut ^?d
Jarcia, who commands the forces from Tamaollpas. I am
lot informod as to the particulars or their difficulty, but It
suited In Garcla's returning with his men (800) to Tain.
Nc/tV.'0* Informed concerning the difficulty, hut baring
bserved k'? movements of Garcia for several months,
can giro S that * thlak wili be very nearly truo
hen the fa: U aro tnowc. During several months
10 services of Gars.'*'* division hare been very muoh
eeded, hut ho could no' he Induced to leave Tamaulipu
util the enemy had retired from 3an Luis I'otosi. He
noaired with Zuazca while then was no danger of a
attle, but when toe one r>y returned towards Zuazua's
imp, Garcia became dissatisfied, airo when the enemy
rew near, so tbat n battle was expected soon, he made n
fllrulty aud lefi. He never saw r.a enemy, and perhaps
sver will Tho reaotlonirts also have dilh'ouHies among
liaise Ives. Zuioaga is aurpcioned of trying tor the I"'rediiicy
again; Marque/ also wants it, iliramin will not
ye way to any of them, and Gen. Woll is said to have
xl&rcd in lavor Of Santa Anna.
Scnor Galiudo and Capt. E Bourscau leave to day far
e Unitod Statoi to bu? arms and ammun iion for the
my of tho North Vnlaurri wishes te make it several
I/U3TUU OWUiJger iliiill 11 UUW 1H
Dug of the While Bark 1'hnnJi, of IVmm.
tucket?Siiffrilngjs uf tier Crew.
The Nantucket Inquir-tr of the 36tD lust. publiahos an
lerC6tlrg account of tho loss o' thin vessel ou the desert
ores of Siberia. The lmter Is from Captain Handy to
e owner, Mr. E. W. Gardner, of Nantucket.
CrMxei (3'Dei'a), January 18,1859.
It is with sorrow that I inform you of my sad condition,
d or the fats of tbo bark Phoenix. 1 was cast away on
s 12th of October last, on Eibo island, having dragged
Bborc In a gale of wind, the circumstanoee of which
ent I shall not relate here further man to say that on
e 11th I made a harbor in an easterly term, to the west
the isla and came t" anchor at tho usual anchorage.
tt wind si,:.ling to tho west in a heavy squall, was not
le to take the anchors or slip the cables so as to clear
s land; tried to ride out tbo gale, supposing tho first of
ic he the hardest, os is usual, bat in this cue it proved
t so. She shortly after went ashore, where she Boon
int to pieces, ailowing us to save but little besides our
oa. wo saved some flour and bread that came on sh?re
a damaged state, live bouts ana a few small articles of
ithing, fte.; the oil was either stove on tho rocks or
mt adrift.
I soon found that we bad got to stay In these parts all
ttor. as we could not discover a suip anywhere; so w?
scluncd to build a house to put what little In It wo had
ved, and thon to como up tbo bay and sco If wo could
ike a live of It among the Inhabitants, bo as to avoid
arvy if It war a possible thing, u we had no preventa'e;
but after we had got the house built and ready to
>vc into, the weather camo on and held so bad that wo
uld not travel In tho boats at all, for Ice soon began to
ike; so wc contontod ourselves with tho inter lion of
mlng on the Ice soon. But It did not get so until tho
m had begun to be takou down with the scurvy, and It
d got so cold that it appoarod the next thing to death Tor
>n clothed as we were to attempt to go anywhere to be
llgcd to camp out nights in the oper air.
Bowevcr, something had to be done, as it appeared, or
i should all dlo before spring, although I caiculato wo
d flour enough to last us until we might bo able to go
the boats and catch seals for meat to oat. If alive till
ch time I concluded I would make a trial at any rate,
'olnnteered a gang and started the first chance to cross
9ice, which was on the 17th of December, for this
ice, or at least for a settlement I had understood there
is somewhere is this quarter. My company con
ted of eleven men besides myself, boat steorers
d hands. In eight days wo arrived at the mouth
this rivor, where there wore a few fish house; and
me flsh, but no Inhabitants. We wore thon out of
ee.d, having consumed all we oou'l bring on our
cits while making tho journey, and as the moat of the
mpany were but just alivo, and all being more or less
izcp and not able to go any farther, I was pleased to soe
mman being In tbo place. He was a Tongoo, on a dog
id, who had como down for fish. By bis aid I have
en able to And this placo, and although alone, no olhora
Ing able to come with mo, I have been abic to have tbo
in brought by degrees and furnished with food and
red for as well as tho place will allow, which is poorly
be sure; hut ltls of that kind that I hope will allow us
live until we can get on board some ship We can get
me vegetables and fresh moat, but tbo allowance is
iall to carry ns through tho winter. Two or throe of
e men will lose their feet, 1 expect, but otherwise I am
hopes all will recover the use of their frozen limbs. I
raped the lightest of any, having frozen nothing hut
igers. toes and ears, and these noi badly. ; Furthermore,
lave been ablo to send a Tow vegetables by the Tongooe
those at tho Island, and have some floor, bread and
Jthee to help support us; am pleased to boar from them
at they are all quite well, having dtsoovered a kind of
nter green or h'rb that they have found to be a powerI
rcmrdy .or re -rvy, and that the Sick men had got
out well. The captain of tbo police received mo very
ci.'ljr. he 1st i high.'U govcr.unort ofllrar that residoa
re, and has dine, and I In.at will do. al1 he Can tor ug
mi ri'garu to tho Aniortcaa government

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