The New York herald. [volume], April 08, 1875, Page 4, Image 4

About The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920

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THE IDEM MDDDLE.
Sixty-fourth Day of tlie Brooklyn
Scandal Suit.
BEECIIER STILL DENYING
His Evidence Important and
Decided in Tone.
HIE LION AND THE TIGER."
Interesting Dissertation in Modern Nat
ural History.
"WHO IS THE LAMB?"
The ''Ragged Edge" Letter Con
sidered and Explained.
"WELL, TO G(5D I COMMIT IT."
Mr. Beecher appeared again as a witness yester
day morning, ne camo on the scene with a brisk
a ad cheeriu! demeanor and went at the work of
testifying In a style that snowed bis heart was in
the business. To Beecher, Innocent or iruiit.v, the
trial must be momentous to the last degree. That
be knows it is 1s evident in lib everj look and ex
pres.'ion. Tbe general impression u that be bas so
far told a fair story, travelling close to tbe eage ot
Improbability, but yet sufficiently within the lim
its to make It look trntbiul and reasonable. The
world would have it that tbe "ranged edge"
letter was Incapable of explanation except in tlie
?ense that the author was crazy, but Mr. Beecher
In his evidence yesterday bhov.-ed how possible it
may be lor a man to meditate these singular
thoughts, use tills singular language, and yet no'.d
in bis heart a meaning utterly UllTcreut from that
attributed to them by the world.
Mr. Beecher was less impressive yesterday than
on any previous day. This man has won a great
friendship. It is broad and ex'euded, like the
country. Few men in their years bare thrown ;
out and fastened such tentacles.
The cross-examination of Mr. Beecher, which Is
expected to begin next week, win determine the
?tatuspf the Plymouth pastor lor good and forever.
rueomriL of tub witniss.
Looking over at Mr. Beecher from oar seat in
the Court ills profile stands ont in the light from
the southern window of the room with singular
distinctness. There Is a splendid bead. The tore
bead slopes up at a very gentle backward Incline.
The head U crowaed with a light covering of
pepper colored hair parted at trie side, thrown
over the ears and bin-hed entirely away !rom the
face. Tbe mouth is large and shows great mobil
ity. The lips come euslty together. Tney tremble
when their possessor comes to tell anything
pathetic?when he tells, for instance, the motive
of tbe "ragged edge" letter. Tbe word
??leonine'' would describe the profile of the
face- There Is strength and nobility in it. The
hair falls dowu npon tbe coat collar aod gives ar
tistic finish to the whole. The voice comes to aa
lp different moods?now clear, strong and decl
aive, now (altering and weak, and weak enoagti
for tears, Toe alternations are quick and sur
prising. He is rapid, confident and cheeriul one i
moment, and slow, cautious and desponding the
next. A whirlwind of emotion overcomes htm,
and this great, stmn?r looking laci Is in a second
as a child's. The mutations are remarkable.
Campbell's la?t raau standing on the world's
wreck and addressing tbe expiring sun suggests a
type of bcroic fice that Beecner lurnishes.
FIRM AND MA-CTLJNE
as theie features loo* when ta repose they drop
Into the wcak?si blubbering expression or cnild
hood when mored by inward emotion. The eyes
appear to enlarge, the lower lip drop*?the man
become* a boy. Toe atrong role* (aim and breaks
and pity ta excited in the breast ot the beholder.
As he aita and delivers hi* evidence It la plain to
?ee the great preacher tee.s himself
IN A STK.t IT-JACK RT.
In Plymouth church he is accustomed to a plat
form. where he can walk up aud down and adapt
the freedom of bis attitudes to the freedom of bis
mind. He Is uneasy in the witness chair. He
ataada op at times, regulate* his coat and aita
down again. He keeps up for a time an oscilla
tory motion of the body backward and forward
and folds and re:olda his arms across his breast.
Tllton was an impassive wttne-s. His voice was
cold and unsympathetic. He showed little or no
feeling, and was entirely intellectual. Beecher, j
with nis strong, Western-like humanity on him,
hi? boyish emotion, hi.-* apparent candor and
trntafulneas, tells differently on the audience.
The conditions arc not alike. The defendant naa
? black and dismal charge to meet, and the man
ner of b\* meeting it ta closely and sharply scro
ttnlaed. Yesterday might be cailed a denial day.
Mr. Bee, ' er denied arid denied, and dented. He
did It boldly. Some things ne repudiated with
?tiong wing. others he replied to With Indiffer
ence, as though not caring much about their
algnldcance.
the irviotNCk.
Q. Re erring to the interview yon spoke or be
tween your?eif and Mrs. vtoodbuil, in the fall of
18T1?wneu sne invited you to preside at the *? ein
way Mai' neettnr November. liTi?state woen and
where toat mte. view occurred. A. it wa* on me
?torning of tne djy she delivered the address; it
took place in the trout cuatuber or Mouiion'a
home; we were the oaiy persons pieatat, Mrs.
Woothdil and my -en.
y. With tue exception of vou two, there were
none others present 1 A. No, there mignt have
been afterward.
q. What passed between yoo on that occas'en ?
what was the auu)ect of conversation between
you * A. It had reierence entirely to presidium at
tbe meeting: the interview occupied tume twenty
minutes; when .-<&<: icit I went down stairs aoa
?s?? tn account 01 the interview loTuon and
Xoutton.
Q. What had become of Mrs. Woodho'.l ? A. I
think sue got ia to a coach at the doer aud drove
to New York.
q. That wa* before or after yon had a confer*
ence with Tuton and Xoulton ? A. 1 tinea it waa
after ahe ha i gone.
y. stat? whatjou said to Moolton and Tllton on
that occasion ? A. I ?aid to tii'-m tnat sn? had
met m* witn some lormaiity and that she said she
was fttg g? d in an utipo;.u]ar cause, aud that s ie
had a ngrit to the svmpatuies or piogressive meu;
that-he desired ro make au explanation 01 her
aentlmerna that ntglit at a lectnre in Steinway
Mali, and that she wisr.ed me to prtaioe at Uat
meeting; i told her that in manv r .-pacts <he
had my sympathy, but that I very seldom allowed
mvseifto preside at public meetings, ami then, as
one reason why I should make an exception Hi her
case, sne said ?oe was leadings forion nope: that
?ne was embarked In an enterprise where sue as a
woman was laboring tor tne benefit of society to
bring abont a oet-er s'ate of things In aoclety ; I re
plica to her tuat lu so tar aa her sentiments were
concerned on the wotuau's snffra^e movement
that I did sympathize w tti he,?not agreeing in
an the arguiuoai* put forth, but that in a general
way 1 was in tavwt of woman a suffrage; out as
far a* I understood ner idea* on the aooiai condi
tion qnestlon were concerned ?that so rar as I did
know or nnders and h??r vi?-wa on that question I
did not ??re* witu her; and she naaded ine a roil
or paper?I recollect ol pr nte.i paper?sad said
ahe wished me to read it over, that 1 would -ee
What her rlews were nere; I took the roll of
paper irom her and the conversation went on.
and sue continued t,o urge me by vanoos con
alterations to with draw my refnsai to preside at
tne meeting to bo h?id that evening, and I had t< id
her I conl 1 not, under any circumstar ces what
ever, do anv ?ach thing; she then char/ed me
witn cowardice; teat I wa? ^iraitl to lose my in
fluence and airaiJ to av >w mv sentiments; I toid
her I had no sentiments I wait anaid to avow, and
as to the charge ot cowardice I s.id I sanposed
I mtiat lie un<ier mat imputation; this was the
couree oi 'he c'>nvernation In various lorms; sne
went over the ?uo/eet over and over again to t"be
close ol tne interview; then I ato-e ano site rose;
I walked toward tne loor au., she walked alter
me toward tne door; i there shook uands with her
?nd we parted and sne went oil; in relating wnat
had occurred and t.ie conversation tna- took Mare
between us to Tllton and Mouiton alter she left
?hey dis?irree<i with win and said they were
gurry I hs?t re'used to oreiido: tbev Bald I ha'i inac
ft (real chance to ally this woman v? me aa a
triend; 1 said then to them that l could not pre
aide at such a meeting, and would not identity
ny*eir with the woman's movement; Mouiton, 1
think, re lied to thai that I n-ed not do that, out
that it was an opportunity to show my admiration,
or rattier exhibit my principle*, In lavor of rree
dorn of discussion on all subject a, and he made use
oi some expression like this, for me, "For Henry
Waid needier to preside at a paollc meeting at
which was discussed the great aocial revolution?
that whether 1 did or aid not believe in it, that It
wouid be a great national and sublime example;'*
that was the snbstance ol it.
y. llow did the matter end In respect to tha
riefiulieness or fidelity of vour refusal to preside
at tnat meeting ? A. I made my refusal absolute
at tne time, and she knew it was absolute.
y. Was there anything said at that Interview
bv you to Mrs. Wood hull, ana stated dv you to
Mouiton and Tllion. that you did not positively
dec ine, that you cauid not thon see how you
could do It, i>ut that If in the afternoon jou should
come to a different conclusion that you would
preside? A. Nothing of the kind, sir.
y. 1 >id you state to Mouicou and Tllton, or to
either or them, on that occasion, as pari of the
conversation ut that interview, tnat you had not
positively declined, bu: that yon did not see how
you could do it, nut that in the afternoon, if
you came to a different conclusion, you would go
and preside ? A. No, sir; 1 never stated so.
y. On the occasion of the meeting with Mrs.
Woodliull at Moullon's house did you or not ob
serve auvcuing in rererence to tne cordiality or
familiarity in the intercourse between Mrs. Wood
hull aud iilton aou between Mrs. and Mr. Mouiton
and Mrs WooJhuli ? A. I >itd.
KIsSINO WOODHt'LL.
Q. Where and what occurred on that occasion ?
A. It was in tlie chamber in Mouiton v house;
when Mrs. Woodnull curne in to dinner; when Mrs.
Woodliull came in Mr. Mouiton kissed her; then
Mrs. Mouiton entered tne room and she also
kissed Mrs. Woodliull, rneeuug her very cordially
and pleasantly.
y. Uid Mr. Tllton kiss her? A. Mr impression
Is thai he also kissed her. but I have no distinct
recollection ol thai; I saw Mouiton kiss ner.
y. l>ia you about tnis time receive a letter from
Mrs. Woodliull ? A. I did.
y. Slate the occasions and the subject upon
wiuch vou received, 11 you diu receive, any letters
irom Mrs. Woodhuiir A. 1 received the first let
ter from Mrs. Woodliull in respect to going io
Washington to speak at a meeting of women In
favor oi woman's suffrage; it was during a session
oi k'eytMft
y. Do you recollect the date or that letter? A,
Yes; it was the 2d oi January, 1872.
U. Has that loiter oi January 2, irom Mra. Wood
hull, i he letter you reierred to in a letter to Mr.
Mouiton" A. Vcs.
y. Vou did receive a letter from her In connec
tiou with the meeting at Steinway Hall? A. Yes.
y. What waa the date ol mat letter? A. I re
member I got it thedi.v beiore the meeting?i
can't ?av but it might nave been on? or two davs
before tiie meeting; that letter was entirely bu
the subject or that inoeting.
y. Dtd you receive any other letter from her?
A. 1 did.
y. Was that letter after or before the publica
tion or the article known as the Wo dhull si.uidei?
A. it was some time bcioro that; aoout the 3d of
June.
y. With the exception of the e three letters, did
^_ou ever reccive auy e:her louer Itoiu hor? A.
y. What letters did you write to her? A. I
wrote her a reply io tne Washington letter aud a
reply to the Oiuey House letier.
TI1E MAHMAPUKE POEM.
y. Do yon recollect the occurrence In the fall of
1871, of the publication of niton's poem of "Mar
maduKe's Musings ?" A. Yes.
y. What was me first time you beard of the pub
lication or were vou aware that it wasgoinjr to ce
published ? A. I heard oi It inroutfli the newspa
pers.
y. Now. had you any conveisation with Mouiton
aiterwaru concerning the publication or that
poem V A. Yes.
y. how did that conversation arise, and what
was said ? A. I don't know how it arose, but in
the course oi the convers . Hon 1 saici that it was a
dastardly l<ut?r, ill-phrased and wouid have an ill
effect; that it was an ill bird that iouled its own
nest; he said he thought so himself.
y. Did you tu that conversation with Monlfon In
whicn tnu publication was tne -tioject or your taik
say to nun that it almost broke your heart to r ad
It, anci that you considered it as virtualiv telling
the wncie story ol yourself and Kltzaiietur a. No,
sir; 1 dliin't sav any such ihiui: as tnat.
y. Did you say anything to that eflcvt about its
publication br aking your heart ? A. 1 did ; I said
it wem to my heart to see or read It; that It was
an arrow snot at Elizabeth; that it would briug
Elizabeth's name beiore the public; that Is all I
roim itibcr sajlug about the "Maimadake's Mus
lims."
y. In the month or December, 1S71, do you rec
ollect the subject coming up between yonrself and
lilton. as to his retiring irom i'lymouih church?
A. Yes.
y. Where-was that interview held? A. I don't
kuow: 1 ouly remember something of the conver
sation.
H. >iate what passed bet ween you at that time
oa mat -uujf .T. A. He said there t.ud been uu
uuirienaly leeltug inanltested to btm on the part
wi members of thechurcB, aud he blamed me lor
It; this wa? only a pure oi many and irecjuent
< on ? ersationa net weou usni t nai i ltne; 1I. .d un icr
taken to do all I couid t ? restoru Mr. Tuton to the (
co;uiu. tfoo t wir oi my church.
(,>. v> i at aad passed between jou and Mr. Tllton
be lore'his on trie auojeci o! tne re*to,i?tiou of
food feeling tow;rd btm on the i>.irt ??r your
Ciuren, t: anything r a. I smu I could uot tiotd
hit teif accountable for the opinions and i rr-indices
tiuM existed wltli rogurd to mm; that I dm uot
responsible tor them: tuatl, however, felt satisfied
thai these beginnings oi sorrow and c tiipiani<?
?gainst mm on the part <>i Metnbars oi the church
m./Ut be overslaugh (1 and removi I II tie ten Did
hia way clear to come buck a vain ttnd take part
aa he uh< a to do in the affairs of me church. and
show u on hi* pari a cordial leeling toward tne
members : aud on one of tn> se interviews wun him I
tbou lit he xbiutea a leaning mat ?uv, wnicli id
epired me wu:i tmi>? thai t his better .?tate of tuinga
n.igtu tome to pa n; 1,1 aucii a delusi <11 1 made
conditions tnat f would guarantee turn a welcome
that would set bltu nigh and Uiv above all these
annoyance^; ai thai taat interview be snowed a
disinclination to a :t so, and I urged him to take
lua letter <o auotner i atircn; he rai l he did not
conaidei himself a member oi tbecnnrch i?ir a ion*
time; 1 asked him tueu to communicate the lar.t
to t:ie church; be ?a.o ne could not uo thai in tne
present st i;e oi tbe inquiries in the < bnroh with
out seeming t avoid oi evade tti'-m; l s.sid to h in ,
teat lie coul 1 make a suinp.ii announcement of the
fact thai be w u uot a UieUib.T, and then that tho
i .tuic action oi tne church would ra*u> that, l?ut
he declined touo this; I should say that tuu uia|.
ter we-.t on i r two or thie-; inoutoa.
A t'lPLOHATK
Mr. Mltor. ?.??;* given a narrative of an Interview
In whica vi.u sai 1 in suostane- mat in view of wie
events o the utnn.tr and la.l, ov tne publication
Of tne Woodhuli skein,, the presiding at tie .Htein
w,?y Hall meeting and me puoiication of ".Sir Mar
niaduge's Musings." there was .in impression in
the church ttist ne was a spiritualist aud tuat he
had thoroughly abandoned the orthodox laltb, and
as his name hau been bandied up aod down t e
community the. teit asachurcn tnat they should
inquire uuo me maiter; tben you said:?"Tea:
fott know, Ineoiore, bow dreadful anu dmtr?s.-tng
this is to me, especially as* 1 know how you bave
C'.ine in:o yoor uisrepute: but what can 1 dof
now can I explain to tuj cliurca meinoeri ? 1 hey
ar? crowding rne on e.ery band."' Now, did any
suck convet aation as t bat take place between your
A. N t !.< t* en tut and Mr. Iilton, sir.
u St>v, on thai eonveraAtton, or on any con
vention abour t . nxiux h.s relations, md yoa
say to bim, or ut^i ne naj to you. "Mr, Beet her. in
reference to ?n? criticismsmude upon me, because
1 hn*e made a -.Ke'ch <?! Woodbulra life and pre
aided at a public u e-'tuig on her bebaii, you know
poflectly wen tne that led me t j It. and
you n?ve B'> ngnt to m iiy fnai a reason to plant
a 'h rn in m, sid- '-uiu jou -ay anj tning ot tuat
kind ? A Not a word.
q. Did he n any eonversatlon at that time in
wi.i. n ne sooka ofyour 'reating tue ofTeuce oi ".->ir
?!attuajuke'?> Mw-aus" as it ii iad t? eu written
by Mrs. stowe or an; one else to print It in tne
Chrixtian Cnton > A. No, Sir; no, sir.
y. Dpi he u?e these words at any conversation
' As to the remaining t nngs? niy reiireni?tit irom
tue chutcb?jei rui of that, in tais way?M?y tbai I
told jou a rear and a hall ago. as I di i at one ot
eur earner Interviews, that I had men abandoned
the church, msi i have never crossed the thres
hold oi tee ceurch since uien; aseome the power
and taku inv name from the roii; it is dangerous
to call artenti >n to the tart that my name is
there ; jet rldot it in tu.e Way?*' A. No. s.r.
y. 1 Met he say that li he jsk'ed for a dismiss#!, or
wrote a letter en tbe su |ect. it would irujiiun
what he ria l been doing lor tne last year and a
half' A. No, str; notning of the kind.
U Did he use words or this kind:-"Yon pnt
your requesi to ni-on tne ground that ra. views
*re diUereut from itio-e of mv cluid;.ood; cer
tam.y tney arc, but aoow me to remind you tnat 1
inv view4 do not differ irotn the view-- ol other
members in good standing, lam not more rad
ical m mv views than Deacon groeiand or Mr.
L>afliii, and It would l>e a ial?ehood to *ay that I
mnst witiidraw Necsu.se oi any liberaittv In my
religious views, lor your church is well known
throughout Christendom as being an asyinm or
looseness and liberal Ctiristlan views, and n 1
retire iroui vour cburch on tbls ground people
will say, 'Well, if Mr. Tilton has grown so loose
and liberal in his views tnat he must leave Ply
mouth church where then can be go?'" A.
Never, sir; they are purely imaginary; I re
memt>er that he did not.
q. Mr. Tilton further says that be said to you In
thta oonuec lon, "You most remerao^r my wile
and dangiiter retnsln members and ttieir nsmes
are on the roh ; it I retire and they remain it will
revive tne rantlly difflcuuy If not create a new
on? r" A No. sir; tnere waa no such statement
a'. 1 UO auch UlsCt.Ssion.
A OAH I!sTgWTT*W.
Q T?i von remember meeting nun on the rars at
sprinirtie.1, j'.-s, ? A. teg; i was on tne cara
.md wni e sitting some one laid his hands on my
snouidet; 1 looked round and saw ihton; I was
much -uipris i an>! said, "H ?W did you come
ne-'i'" t.? said s.; uad oc-en lecturing at Pittaileld ,
an<i waeon n>, way to Boston; we spok' of affairs
a home, of ate wne aaa children; b> waa tn one
o' his grade i* moods; said th t 1 had not been to
?ee Ins iatiiuv mnch and that I should
caii and make it nr. home as before he leit me, and
j la'cr on 1 >aw him agrtin, .md thu time I sat
booide luiu; leaked mm what lie w.i* wrinng < n
tho cars, ml be said his editorials; he said lie
h,.d !>"on reading a charming work on Wtoaan e
ritrhts, oritirn by a charm.ng man, and he spoke
oi he cffoci li had nt>on ium; I a^ii, "Well, m u
is 'h* kind of a book l wisn to bave:" laou'ttoiuk
1 made on that occasion an* allusion to "Sir Mar
maduke:s Musings."
y. At either or these Interview* In the cars did
you say anything of this kind, "What are yon
writing?" "r did you ask him whether It wsb an
ottier "Sir Marmaduke's" poem f A. I don't vhink
1 ever made au allusion to it.
y. Now, sir, In reference to this book of "Von
Kullman'H tile." In that conversation did you
say or do northing of tin* kind? draw a Ioiik
breath, and nay, "Ir there is peace in that book 1
want It f" A. I do not know whether 1 drew the
long t>n-ath, but the rest i think is imaginary.
y. Now. Mr. Beecher, soon alter this interview
in the earn, jou wrote a letter to Mr. Moulton r9
ferring to it?In a letter or February 8. 1872. Be
fore writing the i?' ter had auytntng passed be
tween you ami Mr. Moulton which induced the
witluir r A. Yes.
y How did thit occur and when did It occur?
A. I went on a Saturday morning to toe otJlce to
see Mr. Moulton; it had been a wearisome time
Horn week to week; 1 sat ror some time waiting
lor him; when he came in he did not see me, ou
purpose; he finally gave m-t
A OOLl) RECOGNITION
and went out; 1 went oat with him and forced
mj.seli on him; when I entered communication
with him he wis very abrupt and even more; 1
began to talk about Mr. Tilton's demand on me,
and that my iriends were doing me a great deal
crdamaue; Mr. Moulton replied in a cutting tone,
saying in substance It was very weil tor me, who
had a church and home, to talk about Mr. Tilton's
feelings, but he was suilering poverty and annoy
ances; tie spoke wttn soiue seventy in the uiat
ter ; it was very trying to mo; I was going away
next week; ou Monday 1 felt all this matter and de
cided not to go oil beiore I had cleared mysell in
tue court of h nor lor the lulfllmeut of every obli
gation I had assumed; l determined I would write
him a letter that would show him what I had
done and which might be considered an exhibit
oi what l bad done and what I was willing to do lor
Theodore TUton; you cannot understand the letter
unless you understand the gradually accumulated
ciicumstances ironi whlcn it was derived.
THK KAUiil.I) KHCK 1 JITTER*
Mr. Evarts ihen read the letter:?
Mohdat, Feb. 5, 1S72.
Mr Pnu Frifwd? I leave town to-dav and expect to
pas* through from Philadelphia to New Uaven. shall
not l>e hero till Friday.
About two weeks ago I met 1. in the cars going to ?.
He was kind. We talked much. At the end he told me
to go on with iny work without the loaat anxiety, in so
tar H9 hi* teeliugs aiul action.* were the occasion or ap
prehension. ? '
On returning home from Now Haven (whore r am
three days In the week delivering a course ot leetures to
the theological students) I found a note from K. saving
thst T. telt hard toward me and was going to seo or
write me before leaving for the West
y. Whom did you refer 10 oy E.t A. Elizabeth,
y. M>s. TUtonf A. Mrs. Til to a.
Mr. Kvtirts then continued:?
She kindly sdded. ' Do not be cast down, f bear this
almost always, hut the Ho t in whom we trust will de
liver us all saielv 1 know you do and are wilting abund
antly to help him, and 1 aUo kuow your embarrass
ments." These were words ot warning, but also oi con
solation, tor I believe b?? w beloved ot Ood, and that
her pravers for me are sooner heard than mine tor rny
Mlf or tor her. Hut it seems that a change has come to
T since I saw hia in the car.-. Indeed, ever since,
He has teli more Intensely the lorce ot feeling tn society
and the humiliations whloli environ his enterprise; he
has growtngiy felt that 1 had a powei lo help winch I
dlil n.>t develop, and I believe that you have psr.icipated
in this feeling.
Witness?1"Limitations," I think It should be
?'limitations" instead of "humiliation!*."
Mr. Evans?This is In the evidence.
y. How had you learned or gained the impres*
Blou that Mr. Moulton participated in tUat leellng f
A. I had occasion to on the Saturday t.efore.
y. That is what you reier to f A. l ea air.
(Reading.)
It is natural yon should. T. is desrer to you than I
ean be. lie is with you. All his trials 11c open to your
eye daily. But 1 sec von but seldom, ami in? personal
relations, environments, necessities, limitations, dan
gers and perplexities you cannot see or imagine, it f
bad not gone through this great year ot sorrow, t would
not have believed that any one could pars througu uiy
experience anil tx alive or saue.
Witness?And sane.
(Reading.) I have be?>n the centre of three distinct
circles, each one ot which required clear-mlndedness
and peculiarly inventive or originating nower?the
great church the newspaper and the book; the urst I
could not slight; the newspaper 1 dlu roll oil; IM "Lift
ot Christ." long delayed, had to be tinlslied, as the capi
tal of the Arm was locked up In it: to say that i have a
church ou mr hands is simple enough, but tobavc the
hundreds and thousands of men pressing me, i acu ono
with his Keen suspicion or anxiety or zeal: to see ten
dencies wliicb, it not stopped, would break out into
ruinous delance ot me; to stop them Without seeming to
doit: to prevent an v one questioning me; to meet and
allay prejudices against I'.. wluen had their begin
ning years beiore this; to keep serene, as 11 I was not
alarmed or disturbed; to be cheerful at home and among
friends, when 1 was cufteriug the torments ot the
damned ; to pass sleepless nights otlen. and yet to come
up ire-h and full tor Bunday?all this may be talked
about, but the real tiling cannot be understood troin the
Outside, uor its rearing aud grinding ou the nervous
system.
y. What anxiety and troubles rild you refer to
In that letter * A 1 referred to the anxiety 1 had
that the trouble in Mr. niton's lamily should not
he made a matter of publicity and dragged Into
my church; it was that trouble drew out my
pregnant suffering: the preceding conversations
had turned Opon this ground thai 1 had damaged
?ir. niton's position, nutne and pecuniary ie
soarces; tli .t my stud great Influence with Mr.
Buwcti had materially damaged his interests.
Mr. Evarts then continued to read lroui the
letter:?
Q<hI snows that I bnre pat m^rc thought find judgment
ami earneni desire im? ? tuv ettoru to prepare a wav lor
X. and K. hi >n ever I dul tor uiyaelt a naadrftd-fotd. a*
to the cut-Idc public I have uever lust au opportunity to
suiten pri'ju tlces. to retire tal.4bo.-d* and to exeite
kludly Mettnif anions ill whom I met I am tlirowu
am..ti?cl?!Tviii.-n, public men and gen-rally tn>- matter*
of public opinion, and I bare u*ea every- ratwnal eo.
deavorto restrain "the evil* wb ch have been visited
u;,on T.. and witti Increasing auccsia."
Q. Now, Mr. Beecne . what lu your own condnct
oreflort does thai clause refer to ? A. It reien> to
t:ie prolonged endeavor that I bad made to any
:!ui I believed the atoriea Mr. Bowen n?J bruited
were faise: 1 believed Mr. liltuti to tie un honest
man?neither a lucner nor a Urunkard: mat 1 lie
hex -d him to be weak in some tilings, b it still the
t.riii.ant man mat he was when at the head of
tae Iudfprn<ient.
Mr. Kvartn rend a paragraph ending "and tho
children would have their luture," ana aafced toe
me a tan/ ol It.
Witoeaa?I undertook to clear him from an im
putation that a dec ted bis cba acter, except those
enne'ted wi n hi? socialistic idea* and tue
Wo hIDuII; I could not not undertake to clear ma
character oa socialistic subjects, bui in regard to
hia household, Eilxaoetb aud the cbildreu;lf be
aesirea that matter to be brought up lor investiga
tion 1 thought it would destroy ti e eburco. aud
ratuer man will Plymouth church 1 had an exag
gerated Men, but it tiia a real idea, that anvth.ng
oi that kin.I i would i- iffer. anything but ta.i', tb.in
church should stand; then, an tor him and
hi* a ml the children?this is not exactly tne lan
guage of a literary oi lo/lcai ?tate.-ncnt, but I: is
tue language ol?(bursting into tears)?as when
Fan! salu, coma wish myself accursed from
Christ for my nrotner'a sake," or aa Duvtd s .id
over Absalom. "Would to Uod that 1 had died for
thee"?ii my going out ol toe cnorcn and ont of
the ministry, and so the destruction of my profes
sloual Hie wonid restore thingi as they were, I
bad the feeling, cirtatniv, when I wrote ibis letter,
to give them ail np willingly to put things back aa
they were.
Mr. hvarts rontinftel reading and gave that
paragraph Including "the sharp and raj/Red
eugo." and u-ked if the clause expressed his leel
inss ? A. Yes. sir, feeble wonis* if there hsd
haa i?een stronger expressions 1 should have used
them.
Q. Here Is an expression, "be as bad as horror
ana dar?ness ?" A. I don't know; I only know I
am snbject to very great (Uikness souietimes;
Mr. Mars, I did not ilo rignt say ng, "Most of
my time:" 1 lived very dear to (tod men, and tho
most or my time 1 had pea< e (weeping).
q. Wsat was tne condition of ?our temper at
the tune of writing this letter; A. I was in tne
very depth of the de;>ths ol despair, Monday's
leuer auer ?uc i a Hafurday.
q. Now, sir, in theae clauses, or any of them, or
tlna letter, as I have read it to you, was t!iere
pr?sent to ?our mind any teoaght, idea or memory
ot at?r criminal intercourse with Mrs. Ttltonf A.
.No, sir; n<>ne ai ail; none at all; 1 nao no need of
that; tnere whs an- ugh to niv thought?in hurt
lag a tnend. in destroying a nou^enoid, id being
umaiintni to the highest nonor or obligations?
there waa enough In that to torment me with the
torments of the damned; 1 know of no more hor
rible tboujtit, in this world than to betray or hurt
a f:lend ; I don't aay tnat other things ars not
worse, but I say I could suffer as much lor tnls a*
for an> thing. If I have a capacity to suffer.
q. To what do you allude wi-en vou aay, "Ton,
toe, cease to trust me. I am alone?" A. I cotud
have irone to .">00 irtends; tnat wiw simply n recog
nition to'it I was snut up by circumstances to him.
q. Uv wuat circnrustan esr-A. B? that policy
of slieuce which all ol us entered into.
q. Now, sir in this expression. "Ihongli you
love me not," what was the reiermce? A. It was
the stoiv of thai >atniday When h? turned away
irom me and treated mc as if he thoiubt l was not
the man he thought I was.
q. What sorrow oppress-d ron that year that
you rc er to? A. Oh. the cveruiung leaurrecu. n
ol tni* tronble wa? another form oi aggravation:
in one M>rni or anotner it was a,war^ t?eing brongnt
up; 1 settled it. and regarded it over m.inv a
tine, oniy to meet it again in artrravated force,
and year by year it gtew woi se.
q. Had you ant other sorrow or cause Of sor
row, lear or c^use of tear, remorse or cause or re?
morse t A. Tss, I hs i abnndaui cause ior tears
and trootde about myself.
q. In wnat connection ? A. Because I hsd an
unsoeakabic dread of an lmputatl n resting on
me; I was a minister and inereiorc n woman:
to nave this matter brought into the onarch it
Would divide It into three parties, aud 1 did not
ha\ e a dotb: that it would result in a u.nnagration
thai would destroy that cbur li aud destroy mr
usefulness lor ire; I felt I did not sea
now I could get out of it; how i couiJ
Set rid oi all tie damaging siori"* that
ir. Howen bad nasafe! me with, back d
np by the charges or a man and <n inn<> ent wo
man ; lor their i-a*e I did a great deal mdagreat
deal for m?.self aa I was tue minim :r ol a cnurck
tha? I could not t>ei:r to s> e fill.
</. Waa any otlier charge ejeept that or Im
proper advances made' A. No, nut 1 tiauk tuat
was etioogh.
q. Now, sir, after this letter which 1 have read
and before jou wrote tnat one of Marcn j.'i. i?jj,
Ind any particular intercour e taken place t?e
Iween vou nnd Mr. Moultonf a. >es.
q. wnac had occuirea? a. I tinn* it was about
tl If time Mr. Mouiton showed me arid I for the
Orst. time read kr. Tilton'a letter to Mr. Boweo,
what is cai.ed the (/oiati Aq? article; that whole
di -nth was a month oi agitation.
4. Wuat was the subjret that tn.%le the agita
tton r A. Tt vu about the reinstating of Mr.
Tllton; but peculiarly me reinstatement in tbe
matter 01 Mr. Bowen'a difficulty.
y. Tbi? preceded the tripartite agreement? A.
Yea, air.
Mr. Evarts then read tne letter of March 23, and,
calling attention to a portrait aliu.ied to, auk tut
lor an explanation. A. It was a grand old bead
thai Mouiton hau seen at my House, and 1 bad
framed und sent to him.
y. "I have neen doing ten men's work this win
ter, partly to make up lor lost ttmo, partly because
1 live uJiuer a cloud, leellng every month that I
may be doing my last work anu anxious to make
the most ol ftand whxt was there that inuuced
the feeling that you expretsed, "That you were
doing your last work and anxious to make the
most ol it ?*' A. Well, oi course, there was some
story lu relation to this difficulty that I heard all
the time; I do not tbtnk tnere Is a month In the
year that I do not leel that 1 am near my end.
y. You also use the expression "Under a
cloud." A. Yen, that was the local difficulty.
<j. "Wheu Ksau sold tin birturignt lie louud no
place lor repentance, though he sought it care
fully with tears." Wow, sir, in reference to yourself,
or any experience of yours, did you make this ref
erence to Ksau, and if so what? A. It was a very
natural one lor a minister to make; 1 had
preached a good many times irom It; Ksau sold
ins birthright, and tried time and timo again to
have himself reinstated?to make tho matter beifr
anu could not?l had tried over and over and over
again, to have the mistakes ami errors I had lalieu
Into in that latnily repaired, and thev never would
bo repaired; 1 don't?I did not quote It, sir, as a
literary matter, but rather as a sacredly orna
mental passage.
y. "1 have known you and found In you one who
has given a new meaning to irieudshtp." This ex
pression, Mr. Ueecher, of your esiltnato and leel
lug in regard to Mo'ilton, In his relations to you,
was it a true expression ol your feelings ? A.
That expression of my feeling to Mr. Mouiton was
true; 1 regarded him as a broiher; I thought him
a splendid specimen of a man ; ho was a counter
part of mine; i thought be had (tiven a new inter
pretation to friendship, and I think so stUl.
y. In reference to the "night cometh when no
man can work," wtiai dlu you mean ? A. It was
suupiv taking a serious view of things.
y. Now, sir, was ttiere an interview with Mr.
Mouiton at whicn the Golden Age article was con
sidered ? A. There was.
y. in what Htiapc was the article? A. In galley
prooi; it consisted of Mr. Bowen's letter, some
prefix and some comments.
y. Where was mat interview? A. It was In Mr.
Moultoti'a bouse; be was In bed in his back
chamoer.
y. ilow came yon there? A. I think I rad jnst
come back irom lecturing and ran down to see
bim.
y. Were you asked? a. I do not think no; I
was in the nablt oi droppiug in to see httn on my
return Irom a trip.
y. Was Mr. Titton present? A. No, sir.
The Court then aojourned until two I'. M.
AKTKK R&CKSS.
Tbe crowd of women has disappeared. Mrs.
Field is still conspicuous, and the poor delicate
girl who appears to be reportlug the proceedings
for some newspaper la still here. Tho Judge
throws a glance over the scene and looks satisfied.
The Ueecher people settle into their seats confi
dent and sintliug. Floor Manager Caul dwell, or
Plymouth church, is busy in finding seats ror the
members, aud camp stools and cane-bottomed
chairs seem to rise ont of the ground at his bid
ding. ur. Beocher takes a position near tbe Jury
in a line with his brother, and his ear Is given en
tirely to tne evidence. Mr. lieecher's daughter,
Mrs, Scovilie, sits in a direct line with her lather,
as does aWo Mrs. Oeecher, and In tbe laces of these
two women great interest, expectation and anx
iety are pictured.
THE B0WKX LETTER,
y. Mr. Recchcr, now give us the conversation
that took place between you anu Mr. Mouiton in
Mouiton'* house on the (/olden Age article ? A.
He told me to read it and say wnat 1 thought of
It; 1 read the article (the Bowen letter) and
1 was astounded, aud I said, "Good heavens! what
do you me tn, Frank ?" he wanted to know wnat
tbe effect oi its publication would be, and i said
the effect would be inevitable; that its publication |
would just deieat everything we have been trying j
to iij; it would be a disclosure ol the wtioie mat- I
ter and the whole thing become public; he says, ?
"You tuiuk so?" I said, "1 know so;" this was 1
the whoie of the cotiversatiou on that suoject;
t'jls is about the substance of It.
y. Did you read tho whole ot this slip, me nding
the nhole ol the Bowca letter? A. 1 read llcur
sorily. *
y. Beiore this had yon seen the Bowen letter ? ;
A. No, sir, thit was my first sum oi it -there was
something about the charges?the iniamy oi those
charges of Bo?en.
y. What more was said? A. I don't know, sir; ;
I expressed mysell strongly, as a clergyman and
ii C/'i'iiPtiuu could without swearing, but it was an
Intense abjuration.
y. Not, i ask whether at that time, or at any
other time wnen the Bowen letter was men
tioned, did you ever admit, with or without quali
fication, any oi tne charges therciu contained ?
A. No, I uever did.
y. Were there a?v ol these matters which yon ,
admitted in any form or degree ? A. Not lu auy
manner, shape, lorm or degree, verliy.
y. ilow much knowledge did you liave prellml- i
nary oi the arbitration, tie tripartite covenant
or tbe settlement of the payments to Tllton ? A.
Very little; l had something to do with it in re
gard to Mr. Mouiton; 1 had nothing to do with it
in regard to o her parties; I learned I'roin Multon
thai there had been some preliminary meeting
and that they meaut to draw up articics whicu
RQt'ttld idclude us all in that final settlement; I
supposed irom wnat i hearu here on the trial that
the first paper I received was tne drafc that was
brought to me?the drait unchanged in the article
concerning Ititoutf I recollect: I read ti.at dis
tinctly and I was inquired ol if 1 would aigu taut,
au l I said 1 womd aiterward: tne draft was
brought to me by Mr. Claflin; 1 took no furtner
pari in ii; 1 was merely tae recipient and obe
dient actor lu it, tbe matter was wholly managed
by others.
TUB TIT-FOR-TAT BrsiJ?K33.
Q. Now, do you remember aiytulag arising and
b ought to your noslce in refeience to a hut has
been spoken oi as the "tit-lor-tat" article pro* i
c-edin/ irom tbe WoodnnJI A Uafliu preaa f A. 1
never ?aw it; I heard It ?p>>kea of?1 don't thick I
beard any allusion to tbat article bjr Tliton? out
Dot under tbat deMBuatlon ; I never heard of U ny
tuat designation till i heard it in Court here; 1 I
simply beard bim give a statement oi an article
VMM tn- WuodnnMt, as 1 underat.od, proponed
to pabllxb. bar wuich wa? g -ing about lu ?nps,
and Included in It a great many respectable men
and women, against wnom chargcs were !
rnadi, and tbat on teeing tnat be had guiie
down in great indignation and broke bis 1
connection with ber an gioriou*iy as ne bad 1
loroiedit; It wait represented to me as breaking
It with great indignation and air ol circumstances;
1 never urged Thton not to break with Woodlitill; ,
It was Just the other way; they were perpetually
praising tier; I never urged theni at all.
y. Mr. TUion bas distinctly said tbat for his
relation with Mrs. Woodhull yon were as re- !
sponsiDle an be was himself ? A. I sav before
(Jod tbat I was not responsible for It at all; it was
a surpr.se to me from tae beginning; with regard
to the appearance of the article known as tne
"Woodhuil scandal," my Impression as to Its
coming appearance came in this way; I hud a
visit irom a tall, thin. lanky old gentlemau, about
slxtv, vtno came to tell me tbat there was an
awiui tblng going to be pnblisocd. Oblccied to.
y. l)ld you subsequently tell Mr. Tilton what
Happened on that subject T A. Very likely; i don't |
remember.
y. Did yon tell ftlm that any blackmail bad been
levied uon you? A. Jio, sir; never.
y. Did tnis call or advertisement or ths Intended
publication oi this article form tbe subject oi con
versation between you und Moulton r A. 1 re- !
heai se 1 It to luui; I merely descr ibed the Id gf ti
tle man; roid mm tbat I saw irom toat there was
something commir; thst he seemed to be greatly
distressed and that be came over to see if it could
not be stopped In some way; Mr. Moulton then
said tnat this man bad come over to blackmail,
and I at last adopted that view oi it; thai was tne
result of tnat transaction.
y. w hen the publication itself took place bow
was it brougnt to your nonce t A. 1 tbink tbe Urst
I board oi tne occurrence was from Mr. McKeiway,
wno came to me iroui the Krgie office, sajin??
Tne court?And gave you notice of tne publica
tion ?
Mr. Beecber?Yes, Blr.
Mr. kv*rtiwWnat did bs advise yon about tbe
publication ~
Tne Court?vve can't take the conversation,
y. How did be vlvc yon tnat noticer A.I change I
the wotd "notice" to "information." Mr. McKel
war called on me. assuming tnat I bad seen the
publication, and spoke to me about u; be called
on mc and spoke to mc or this as a publication
already made; I bad not then seen it.
y. But thereafter, bow did you come Into knowl
edge r.bout it r A. I repaired, witn Mr. McKeiway.
to Mr. Kinsella, at tbe Eaglr office; 1 understood
tbe article to be in the office at tbat time, but 1
did not see it.
y. Were you advised of the nature of It f A. I 1
was; 1 assed Mr. McKeiway to give me tbe sub- j
s.anee ol it, which be did.
MBOLBCTIIG HIS n*TBRt?TS,
Q. When did you first sec or read tbe article
Itself? A. I never have yet.
Mr. Evarta?Now, wheu did any matter of con
ference
Mr. needier?T beg yonr pardon; after this trial
bad begun I was innrueuxf one day oy counsel to
read over tbe publication; I ocgau to road it, but
did not get through with It.
y. When did it urst come np as a matter of con
sultation between yourself. Mr. Mooiton and Mr.
Tliton? A. 1 sent irom the i;n<iU- office to Mr.
Mouiton's souse; I saw bun at bis counting nouse
In New Yorx, and bebmd too coaming ciesk we
had some considerable conversation in regard to
tbe publication; we then came over to Brookltn,
taking tbe Montague street lerry, and Mr. McKei
way going by Kultoa lerry.
y. What waseald between yon and Mr. Monl
ton about that publicationt A. 1 d? not remem
ber tbat Mr. Moulton said ne bad seen it; he ad
vised me to say nothing about It; it was part of
tne erran I to Mr. McKeiway to know wiiai I had
to say anout the publication; he called In ms pro
fes-nontil character as a journalist in connection
witn the KnglP.
y AlMirwanJ was the question of whether any
publication ol an/ kind snould ne prepared in re
ply to it a subject of consultation between you
botb ? A. At first not of consultation, not advice
c une to me from tuinv parties.
y. on what errand did they come to yon? (Ob
jected to.)
Mr. Evart*?I do not propose to iibow wbat the
advice wan.
y. Did you reoelve advloe from a variety of peo
ple y A. I did.
y. What part did you take, and with whom, on
the question of deciding whether nay answer
should be made ? a. Wuh Mr. Moulton princi
pally, and also with Mr- Tracy.
y. When did you net' Mr. Moulton and where? A.
1 law him at his house; It mar have been tuat
evening or the next day.
y. Was Mr. Tilion present at that time ? A.
No, I do not thluk Mr. Tlitua wuh present at that
time.
y. What was the conversation you had with Mr.
Moulton on that subject? A. iiu seemed not to
have any doubt 111 his own mind at all on the mat
ter, and hia counsel to me wa , irom ilrai to last,
to treat It with contemptuous silence.
TOaoy combs in.
Q. Was Mr. Tracy connected with Mr. Moulton
In any way in tills conference ? A. You asked mo
whether I had counsel with Mr. Tracy: 11 you read
the question I will tell you how.
y. Was Mr. Traoy advising yon, In connection
with a number of other people, ami 1101 witn
Mr. Moulton r A. Not with Mr. Moulton, but with
others.
y. Wnennext. if at all, was the question of an
answer to be made discussed or the policy 01
silence to he maintained ? A. I can't give the
details; It was a thing that was agreed on at once;
this was wltlnn a week or ten days, ana thero
were various contereuces and conversations i>e
tweeu me, Mr. Moulton and Mr. Tilt on m regard
to it, all ol them recommending silenco.
y. When did any interview wuh Mr. Tilton take
place ? A. Ou his return from his New llumpsiure
trip, soon aiter.
y. Where did the conversation between you and
him take placc f A. in Mr. Moulton's study in the
morning; he came there very much excited.
y. Were you there when Mr. Tilton camo? A. I
think 1 was; 1 think l was there witn Mr. Moulton
wtien Mr. Tilton came in.
y. Beioro Mr. 'niton came In was there any con
versation between you ana Mr. Moulton ? a. if
there was r do not recall auy; Mr. Moulton de
nounced the publication with indignation, and de
clared that ho should wherever he went deny It
as an atrocious story; he spoke to my heart's con
tent about It; he took me by the hand, and. I
think, by Doth nanus, and authorized me in his
name?no enjoined me?to say tnat It was an in
famous and atrocious falsehood; tno question of
making this contradiction in the public pai ers
was something different; It was understood that
we should retrain Irom publication.
y. As a part ot this interview or conference
wus anything said bv you in regard to your wish
or preierence lor a denial? A. 1 said I was pie
pared to make a written denial 11 it wus thought
best, but tuut it was a denial that ouarnt to comc
from me, Mr. Moulton and Mr. Tiltou, as all oi us
were implicated in the statement.
y. How was that proposition received bv those
geutlemen ? A. Tney took it into consideration.
y. Tuat was the substance ol tnat interview ?
A. Yes; ll tnere was to be any card it was re
served as a mat'er lor lurther consideration.
y. ilow soon thereafter was there anything said
or done on the subject matter oi the card? A. 1
cannot say exactly?in November or December;
mere was a pressure that led Mr. Moulton to re
open the question wtietuer something might not
be properly done in the way of publication.
y. How was ll talked ol? A. 1 c.iunot say.
y. Was there any agreement that there should
be publication t A. i lie agreement was accord
ing to the original purpose, to
i.Kr Til k nitNO DIE.
Q. Now, at this Interview you have spoken of,
do you recall anv lurther Interview between these
two gentlemen, or either ot them, ou tue suoject
ol the publication or denial ot it ? A. It was a
matter of conversation every time we met; bow
oiten we met then 1 cauuot say.
y. Do you remember it was a subject of conver
sation at d ffercnt times and on several days ? a.
Yes; I told mem vvnat was said to me about the
publication, and they tola mo what was said to
tneiu in legard to it in their various perambula
tions; we undertook to form a judgment concern
ing it; I deterred to Mr. Moulton% judgmeut on
the matter; 1 de.erred to urn Judgment generally,
but not always.
y. Following tho publication of the Woodhull
matter, was there at any time a conclusion i
arrived at to make a public response ? A. Tnere
w.j.h something tuat I understood, atlirst, to mean
tnat, but 1 was mistaken.
y. Now, sir, at either of those Interviews at '
wnicn Mr. Tilton was pi eseut did this occur?"Mr.
Bceciicr said the best thin,* to be done was to Bay
nomine on me subject; that if any denial was
uiade it would provoke the Wood hulls to puolish
the statement in some other lorm, and that ll it ;
was denied once it would have to oe denied a^uin !
tw o or three times, or a great many times?" Do i
you remember anything ol that kind occurring ?
A. No, sir; I rememoer something akin to it; all
I said was this?that we had to make up our
mimls that, ll we had to go into a denial of I
part, u would have to oe toitowed up, not oi this
one, bat ot many ones.
y. Now, sir, do you remember expressing an
Opinion at any or moso conversations tnat you
said you had changed your mind witn regard to |
having anything to say to that publication aud
that you said vou thought Tilton ought to publish
a card audjirepare a card r A. I always thougnt
Irom the first tb.it If it was to be done ..t all it was
not ior me aioae to do it; that Mr. Tilton should
do it in defence ot his lamiiy.
y. No it, nr. do yon remember any conversation
on the subject between you in which you expressed
yoursel in tuis war?that mc time wn.n silence ,
concerning the Vvoodnuii scanjsl should be ob- I
served hud i assea?mat so many demauus
were made on you by your triends the
pressure was getting to be unendurable,
and then tbat you advised a scheme ol tais kind. <
Now. suppose we made an appeal to tho sentiment
of tlie couimuutty; suppose, for instance, some
reputable paper, sar the New York Tribune, would
puonab, sstni-ofitciailr, a statement saying tn re
was some ground for Mrs. Wood hull's story, and
vie get that contradicted on what Uoweu has
written and retracted, it ncod not be signed by !
our o*n names. Wed, it will be said, there is
something in the Woouhuli story wuicfi Bowea I
lias r-traoteu." Did auvtmng ol that kind occur
on your susgestlm or advice i A. Not one solitary
thought or word ui tuat is mine; it is u notion.
Mr. Hvarts?Now, >oa nave a earn wiiicii is in
evidence?tne proponed denuuciatiou oi tue Wood
hull. W hat is tne n umber of tbat f
Mr. Morris?No. 23.
Dy Mr. Evans?I* that among them? A. I don't
kno.v, airi what date is it f
y. No date to it. It is in December, 1472, I
? hink. somewnere about there, or November, 1*7.2.
Tnere, tnere, sir, there it is. A. Well, wbat do
you ask me, Mr. Evans?
y. i win call your attention to it, and then I win
ask you u qucs lou. Do you remember about tuat
part us coming up * A. Its, sir.
y. as proposed for cou.iidcratlon at some one
of thesa interviews r A. Not mis card, but 1 re
member cards.
y. v\eii. were\here various cards? A. Yes. sir;
that la to say, a conversation aiose in Mr. Moul
ton's ro >m, and I mink Mr. it ? u waan't present,
and 1 said to Mr Moulton, "It -eems to me Mr.
liiton win never get quit of tnis matter so long as
he nas among good people the reputation of oe
lievmg iu mese women or in tboir doctrines, and
mr idea 01 aeliVerauce is bv a glorious ana manly 1
act to cut bimse.l loose Irom tuern;" Mr. Moulton
seemed to be struck with It and said, "Well,
suppose vou draw up sonutht ig. suco a- you i
Bum;" 1 sketched two or three lorms?tentative
forms?and one, I thought, was very good, but It
is not this one.
y. is ihat yours ? A. I can't say, sir; I made
two or turee little beginnings and they wcro un
satisfying and 1 tin i it leil upoi a lorui of state*
ment I liked oetter, aud that was proposed aud
declined.
y. Now In rererence to?I will read this card. '
Mr. Morris?What is the natob-r ol this ?
Mr. Kvari.?No. I wilt resd cms if tie oae -28.
The wituesa?1 don't kn >w wtietuer mis la ono
of tboao beginning cards or not, sir.
Mr. Evans nan ie I a paper to the witness.
Tne Witnesa-l think that this la the first Ida
when It occurred to me.
y. rnat is yonr writing? A. Tea, sir, and I
wrote it on a leaf, and that gave rise to something
more, until there was som<thing that grew.
y. Now tue poiut I am coining at is in reference
to tnis statement. -In an unguarded enthusiasm
1 hope 1 well and much 01 one who nas proved ut- ,
terty unprincipled. I snail uever again notice her
stories, and now utterly repudiate ner statements
made concerning me *nd mine." Tbat w.is pro
posed to be signed by Mr. Tilton, 1 suppose? A.
Yes, sir.
y. Now did Mr. Tilton. 10 reference to tbat card
and as an objection to its iiem* puuiisUed bv him,
say to you that you knew it was not an unguarded
enthusiasm that led him (Mr. Tilton) to Mrs.
Woo mull's, but be went there tor the purpose or
bringing his tamily and himself and Mr. Beccher
from tne result 01 a story whl h sue original.y
threatened? Waa that s.?d to you? A. N j, sir, it
was not.
y. Anvtning of the kino? A. Nothing of the
klud; tins was not designed to be ft card of
denial.
y. Weli.tt speaks for itself, that card doe?r A.
Of toe st?ty.
o. Now, at any of tne<e Interviews, dm yon nay .
to Mr. Mouiton, alter Mis pab.lcatton 01 itie Wo xi
hull scandal that you had come to conduit with
him, Mr. Mouiton. as to <vaat was Oeat to do with
reieronce to tne i>ub'icftu>ns. Wnar reply could
, be made. If any could b ? made. Did you, in tout
connection, or in any ot'ier w ar "ft* to him, mat
' yon ???* no way for this siuce tuai story had ueen
published? A. Mo, sir.
I u. Uid you nay anything in connection with that
! atibiect. or how did you express yourself, Uat all* j
A. 1 don't remember; 1 ouly remember wuat 1
didn't say.
{I Nothing of that kind was said by yon In re- ,
gar ! to this ? A. Mo. sir.
MR. KUI.I.EKTON'1 m?.
Q. At this time or during this period, or later
views, how do you reinenmer , -
Mr. Evans did not Unish the question, but turn
ing to lus associates began u nngtftj aearch for
? number or exhibits. About "ten minutes was
consumed by tins delay In the proce dings.
Mr. fulierion?I't r.iaps we had better cross-ex
amine a littic until t ey got ready to go oo. pup- i
pressed inuglirer.)
Judge Neilaon (jocosely)?You con do so tf you
agree to close t&is aiternooB, Mr. l-'uiierton.
Mr. l.varts (retiming)?y. Now. sir. please'ook
lit this note [Kxhiiin No. 46j and recall the period ,
to your mind 1 yon can. mat reMrs to an inter
view between Mr. lialtidar and Mr. Mouiton as
having taken place, doesn't it ? A. Yes, sir.
q. Now, Mr. Mouiton reported to you that inter- i
View, uid he nott A. Yes, sir; I believe he did.
y. Yei; now, in connection with Mr. Mouiton
reporting you that lnfrview or in reference to
toe interview taking place before 11 took puce. 1
was-dlfl anything or this kind occur Detween yon
aud Mr. Moulton that Mr. Mouitou whs not to tell
Mr. Halltday tne lacts? A. No. air; no air; bo
didn't want to tell htm any more than I did.
Q. (.Showing paper) Look at that letter, Mr.
Beecber, whlcn is without date, and Bay now soon
niter this Woodbull scandal was made publio that
lerter wan written by you to Mrs. futon? A.
Within?within three or four weeks.
Q. Was that written In purnu-nce of any con
ference or In any way ? A. It was?uo, nut con?
ference; it was written
Mr. Beach?'Thut was tne question.
Tile Witness? Upou a suggestion, not confer
cnce.
y. Krora whom did any suggestion proceed ? A.
I tbluk Mr. Moulton Suid it would tie agieeable to
Mr. Tilton U 1 would address to his wife a note of
sympathy.
Q. Yes; and did yon address it, und at tnat
time? A. He said u note ol s> mp.itny addressed
to Mr. Deming, 1 believe?the matteis, he thought
would be agreeable both to Mr. '1'ilt n and to
Mrs. Tliton?and 1 wrote this letter and Handed it
to Mr. Moulton, wno wasn't satisfied wltu it.
y. Well, what became ol itr
Mr. Fulierton?Wuat's that number, Mr. Evarfs?
Mr. Lvarts?103, 1), 103.
The Witness?He seat It; he to'd me nlterward;
lie said it explained to Mr. Tilton tne point o/ view
iroui which I n id written It a* i ban explained it
to mm; 1 lound, alter 1 nad leit it with him, and
saw hlui again, they expected 1 would write a
letter ol denial to Mrs. Tillou.
>(. You handed it to lum and he sent It to Mrs.
Tliton, as you understood? A. Yes, sir, as 1 un
derstood.
t|. At that time. Mr. needier, Mr. Tilton, has
spoken of au Interview toward the close of De
cember. He gives it 1872?'lie period we
are now at. ?uw, Mr. Beecher, toward the
end ol this month of December, or
during the month of December, 187*2, or
November and December, 1872, do you
remember any conferenca between Mr. Muultou,
Mr. Tilton and yourself, in which the matter of
some public denial, in sorao lorin. was considered,
and any papers produced, or read or examined ?
A. Nothing lu November.
Q. Well ? A. There was a conference the last of
Deeeuioer. *
Q. Tne last of December ? A. Yes, sir.
q. Wuere did that occur? A. At Mr. Mouiton's
bouse.
y. Who were parties to that consideration, who
were present? A. Well, Mr. Tilton, Mrs. Tliton
and myseli In the immediate conversation; in tna
preparatory stages ol It Mr. Mouitou: Mr. Moulton
stated to me that Mr. Tlnon hud got a piau. lie
thought, by which he could make somo iorm of
statemeut that would clear him from tho imputa
tions that were resting on him, arid at tnu same
tiiao the whole matter could be .set lu bucq a way
Uhl'OKK THH 1'UBI.IC
as would be for toe mrtuerance oi the interest all
round.
i|. Yes, very well. Now at this time, when Mrs.
Tiltou was present, Mr. Beecher, there were soma
letters, were there not? A. Yes. mr; 1 had been
requested to prepare a letter oi denia1 to accom
pany a statemeut if such a one sbou.d be made.
ij. Yes? A. And Mr. Tilton wh-. to make a state
ment also in denial, and Mrs. Tilton was to make a
statement, or rather denial, to go into some sort
ol statement.
Q. And it was when some letters of that kind
were up that Mrs. Tilton was present? A. Yes,
sir.
y. Now, sir, prior to that was there an inter
view betweeu yourself, Mr Moulton and Mr.
Tliton, at which a paper or document that has
been called tne "true story," was read? A. No.
q. Wets there an occasion at which tnut was
read? A. Yes, sir.
o. When was u? A. Later than that.
Q. You think later than this. Now we will tak*
that luterview where the "true story" was tead,
W ho were present at that time? A. Mr. Moulton,
myself and Mr. Tilton.
g. Ana whore did the meeting occur? A. in
Mouiton's beuroom.
UK. BKKCIIUK HEARING THE TKl'E STORY.
Q. Now, will you state what took place thore ?
A. Mr. Moulton told me Mr. Tiltou would come
lound aud read a statement that ho had pie
pared ; 1 heard notmng oi it, except that he was
preparing something.
y. Preparing something? A. 1 asked Mr. Monl
tou what it was; he said be utnn't know, and
hadn't read it himseil; Mr. Tilton was going to
read It to him and me that uight; so 1 went tnere
to hear It, and Mr. lilton?s.iali I give yon ?
Q. Just state wnai occurred? A. Mr. Til'on be
gau, sitting ou the so a, und llxed his papers, and
opined the remarks to me by saving, "1'aere was
one single sentence wmch, if I conid stand, fie
thought tii.it 1 shouid be able to stand tne wholr
document;" tnen he commence?! roaditu;
iiil didn't kkad the .se>tknce;
began reading what was called slterward the
'H ue story,'and read ou until lie came to that;
passage in wnton I was charged wi'h asklnar Mrs.
Tiltou to oe a wile to me, with all that is implied
In tnat term, and he looked up aud said, 'This is
tie sentence which, if you can stand, the rest of
the document won't hurt you,' and I
inula no reply; I was lying on the bed, I
think; ne went on reading and reading,
aud 1 getting madder and madder, and wnon ne
nad flnisftcd it 1 got ui> and began to walk aoout
the room, and said uothtug, aud finally 1 think bo
Oi~ Mr. Mouitou asked m what 1 had to say.
[At this point there was a slight commotion
among tne audience.]
juuge Neilson?Gentlemen, please Oe quiet. I
see the storm rising.
i he Witness?Ana I walked up and down tho
room, and anally 1 turnca to bini and said ?
y. lo whom? A. To Mr. lilton, very quietly?
"Mr. Ti:ton, li is not lor me to bay what you Siiall
or what you shall not publish; but I want you to
understand if yon publish this statement, and
thai sentence iu r, 1 wld n it stand tt nor agreo
to ii, and that is the end; 1 will uot have any such
statement as that come out and not meet It per
emptorily; at that he gathered himself y> Hon
like?[here the witness imitated Mr. Tilton's
uiannerl; ins tact flushed, and he began to storm
very loud on the subject, aud Mr. Moultoa took
him in lund instantly ani 1 drew back, oat. and
Til k LION AND 1HK T1UKK HAD Til K VIllHT
by themselves; it was a uood, lively discussion
and in respect to tbe structure of tne wnoie docu
incut and lu respect to tbe insertion or that: part
oi tiie time Mr. Moulton was in the ascendancy,
part oi tne time I think Mr. lilton nad tho best of
It. aud it went on so for a very fousmeraMe
penou au'i eud<>d uusatiMactori.i lam persuaded;
that was tn? su isl in e of tnat interview.
y. As to tne ics i.i oi t hut interview was ther#
any ueiermi ttion to publish tae "true btory ?"
Mr. Msic.i?Oa, wo;l. wn it was expressed r
T..C Witut t ? Motlllli j o.tld.
Mr. Lvans?>u?iug iui'.ner sald| well, did you
?nder*t in I it was to be puoii >:ie<l ?
Mr. B ach?1 object to it; Mr. Beecher, one mo
ment.
wnnt wis tne result or tnat interview m
reaped ol wnotner that was to be puulishea or
uot T
sir. Heach?l sobmtt he cannot state the result
except ir?tn wnat van said.
Judge NeiUon?mat's no. What was aald on
that subjnct, if any tiling t
Mr. Kvarta?Well, wnat waa said further T A.
NotIII Qg.
y. Bsiore you broke up ? A. Nothlnar that! re
member; tnere wan nothing said about priming,
at any rate, llrsl, mldulc nor lam, tnat 1 recall.
V- wnan't tuls paper read as one that was pro
poned tor publication f
Mr. Beacn?l uat i* objected to. One moment.
Judge Njitson ? Wnat waa aatd on tout subject*
Mr. trans -Hot w is the matter introdaoed t
Wit* win the paperre.nl to rouf
Mr. Beacn?Objected to, sir, except as to what
wns said.
Mr. Kvarts?w#u, what was said concerning
tills paper before it was read to *ou t
Mr. Beach?whr. 1 understood Mr. Beeeher to
?ay of the interview that he was requested to
come there aud near n paper tuat was proposed to
be published.
Mr. Kvarts?Very well.
The Witness?l would like to correct that stat".
mem, Mr. Be.icn, ho lar a< to -<a? tuat 1 waa to
hear a statement that was drawn up by Mr.
Til(oo, ami wmie 1 understood it was lor publica
tion I shouldn't be wilting to say tnat was stated
to rw the object.
Judge Ncmon?Now, the counsel wishes to
learn whetner
Mr. Kvarts?W hen was anything said about Its
being puolisned r
Mr. Beacn?He says noming wm said.
Mr. l.varis?I no# a<u you the naesrion, Mr.
Needier, wuen was anvthln? said about ns being
pubiisned, to which rou replied that if It waa pun
llshedyou could not endure it.
The Mines*?i oad tne impression all tho while,
of course, trot because tnev said so; why shonid
tliuf draw up a Ht?ry out to publish it* I said If
tins It publisne I I win an so and no: nut that don't
roiinw, ihie.i it, tnat tue; ?aia they wore going to
pobiis i it y
y. When Mr. niton said, "ir you can atnnd one
passage in It, you cau stand the whole T" A* Yes,
H:r.
q. Did that conver the meaning to you that yon
c?uid stand tne publication oi itr
Mr. f uiierton? I object to it.
Judge Neilson?Ton can't add to what waa said.
Mr. Beach?I don't tnink anyoody win deny ttat
Mr. Beecuer understood it waa pioposea to pub
lish it.
Mr. Kvarts?Thnt being so, theo?at the close?
b*ior? your tntei view terminated, in wlint posi
tion was tne quest on or publication leit t
Mr. Fulierion?Tnat I object to. sir. There IS
only one war of getting at tnai?that la by what
wa< said,
Mr. Kvarts?Nothing was said.
Mr. Cu ierton?raen take tuat and dtaw yonr
own iniereuce.
Mr. iieacu?He has stated tkat nothing waa aald
except Wuat he related.
Mr. Kuiierton?He can't go on snd add.
Mr. Beacn-What no <ou want to kuow. Kvarts ?
Mr. Kvarts? We wmt to know If be' ?re that
meeting broke up it wad decided to have that pub
lisncd or nor.
Mr. I uiierton?Tuerc was nnitiing said on ths
subject, so your Knowledge will Uavo m oe de
rived nom that.
Mr. Evarti-Wn are alwirs permitted to prove
the conclusion of a oonlerenc?, Thetner anything
was sinied. rarnes to >if leaving tlio thing in
complete lor further consideration witnout deter
mination, and now that la all l wish to ooine out
kern.
i he Witiflss-If rou will allow m?, Mr. Evarts, I
ler: before the parties leit.
y. Beloro they wit' A. Yes, sir; when I leit
mar * krk *r it.
Q. In the r.nlk f A. Ves, sir: more or less,
y. You were not tnore at tne end f a. No, sir;
I was not,
y. Now, wnat waa the Inst thing yon said on th?
[CONTINUED ON THIRTEENTH PAGK.1