8
THE SUN, WEDNESDAY, JULY 16, 1919.
FORD AS WITNESS IN HIS LIBEL ACTION RECANTS ON ANT I -PREPAREDNESS
DECLARES FOR WAR
IF LEAGUE FAILS
Continued from Flnt Pag.
ttoner In drawing from the wltneae the
Act that several million coplM of Repre
sentative Clyde Tavirnori speech
against preparedness hud been scattered
Broadcast throughout the country by
tha Congressman himself, possibly a
franked'' bualneaa. Mr. Ford had 410
Knowledge of this, passing It along- to
Jtr. Delavlgne. stated- P"
feealonal aoldler la ofWn less objection
able than a profeaBonal gambler.
Grant aa P"l" All night.
' "Did you regard, Oen. Orant aa of
law uh than a ffamSfcrf
"No," laid the witness.
XJen. Perahlng 7" waa aaked.
' "On. Pershing did a food Job h
ended the war."
"Waa Perahlng murderer when ha
Want into Mexico?"
"No. he went to capture Villa, and
that Mexican would have had Juattee."
Witness had no knowledge of tha -famous
Ban Franc lace Mooney caaa or
tie fact that Thomas Bdlson partici
pated In a preparedness parade In New
Tork. He considered President WHsoir
a great man before the war, and a
greater one now.
A pamphlet published by direction of
Mr. Ford was read In part. In It -the
writer aaid that the European war waa
prolonged by both aides being prepared
and aaked what good was preparedness
in Flanders
"It'a the earner old talk by the same
old lasy vulture." geld the article.
Mr. Ford, however, wanted a close In
spection of the paragraph and finally
scouted Secretary Delavlgne of "putting
it over" on him. although tke article wak
supposed to contain the true sayings of
Mr. Ford.
Q. Now, referring to your publica
tion of Auguat 11, l !i:.. published In
the Detroit Free Press and again In thla
booklet, I will ask you how many copies
of thla booklet were prepared for circu
lation and distribution?
A I don't know ; there was quite a
number.
Ford Meant Ores-Preparedness.
Q. I want to call your attention to the
number of times that you used the word
"murderer" In - connection with those
Who were in favor of national .prepared
ness for defense. First, on what la the
second page of the book : "I will do
everything In my power to' prevent
murderous wasteful war In America and
in the world. 1 will devote my life to
fight this spirit which Is now felt In
the free and peaceful air of the United
States, spirit of militarism, mother to
the cry of preparedness preparedness,
the root of all war." "What did you
mean by that ? . '
A. Over-preparedness.
Q. Was anybody suggesting" over
praparedness? A. I thought so.
Q In what way?
A. Every one that seemed to be for
preparedness.
' Q The President was for prepared
nose, wasn't he?
AlfredTucklng That is objected to as
immaterial.
The Court I don't know what It may
be leading to. Go ahead. This is cross
examination. Tou knew that the presi
dent. In December, 1(15, made an ad
dress to Congresa on the subject ot pre
pared neas. In jiart, didn't he?
A. I could not aay.
Q In the "Concerning Preparedness,"
that haa been admitted In evidence, this
appears, and you say : "Do we need pre
paredness? The President himself In his
speeches msde recently In the Middle
"West could find no fear of Invasion and
his Inconsistencies were pointed out even
by the most ardent editorial advocates
of the 'preparedness' plan. In December,
1914, the President, In his message to
Congress, said," Ac. Now, you knew of
the President's speeches
A. Mr. Dalsvtgne did. I suppose.
Q These are your sentiments or are
they Mr. Delavlgne's?
A. I am responsible for them.
Q Tou are responsible for them, .
A. Yes.
Q You knew the President had made
the speeches that you were undertaking
to answer by these advertisements?
A. I did to that extent, and I am re
sponsible for that.
Q. You are familiar with public mat.
ters ? .a i ' J.
A. Quiet a little:
Q. You became an educator and as
sumed the rote of educator, for -the
American people ?
A. Possibly so.
Million to Kdseate Natlen
Q You gave out the public announce
ment that you were going to spend a
million dollars, and afterward raised It
to ten million dollars?
A. I don't remember tru t.
Q You do remember that you an
nounced tltat you were going to spend
a million dollars to educate the Ameri
can people on the subject of prepared
ness? A I did.
Q Yqu started out to educate them In
part, and by the publication of these ad
vertisements and Interviews?
A Tag.
Q You undertook to advocate them,
and made reference to the President's
speeches he delivered In Congress In De
cember. 1916, and subsequently through
out the country early In 116? "
A Yes. possibly.
Q You knew that the President had
made a speech In New York, didn't you,
and then came on to Pittsburg, , then
Chicago, then to Kansas City, and' then,
to t. Louis, than Dei Moines, la., and
to Topeka. Kan., and made speeches at
all those places In the spring of . 1911?
A. I knew it. If It Was In that book.
Q. Didn't you know H outside of that
book? This was during the President's
campaign, and the President was your
friend, waan't he?
A. I knew him very well.
Q. You regarded him as your friend,
didn't vou?
A Regarded him as the President of
the United States.
Q. Didn't you come to hsve very close
relations with the President?
A. Yes, I talked to him a number of
times.
Q. Became a candidate for I'mted
Ft in -m Senator at his request? .
A. Yes, air.
Q. You visited him at Shadow Lawn,
didn't you, his summer place?
i, Yes, sir.
Q. Are you willing to say. 'or are you
Unwilling to say, that you regarded him
a your friend?
A. I will say. yes. sir. that I re
garded him as my friend.
Hrrognlird President's Duty.
Q Now then. Mr. Ford, your friend
er the President, If you leave that there,
tha President of the United States, you
recognised that It was his duty to keep
the public Informed, didn't you?
A. Yes. air.
," Q. And the President came out In the
rountry, all through the great Eastern
cities, and the middle State cities to
tnake addresses upon the things of In
terest to the public from his standpoint?
jj A. Tsr I
Q And you ( spyght, Mr. Ford, by
these publications, did you not. to coun
teract the Influunce of the President's
speeches to the people of the United
Btstes upon tke questions thst he con
sidered vital?
A. I sought to give my views on It.
Q. I call attention to where you said
the word "murderer" or "murderers." This
Is No. 1 ; this is No. t ; "I confess I
do not know how It Is best to undertake
this work . In an organised manner. I
realise It Is a vast undertaking. Yet I
.want to see thla nation and all the-na-tlons
of the earth nourishing that feel
ing, already deeply Implanted in the
minds and hearts of millions, that Is
expressed In the words, 'We do not
want war. We wilt not have war,
we will not have among us the
, breeders of war, be they men who cry
out that the enemy seeks us and we
must prepare for him, or be they only
those who would dassle with the false
glory that has been the cloak of murder
for centuries.' " What did you mean by
that. Mr. Ford?
A. Mllltarls u
Q You mcMt to imply that every
man that favored no-called militarism
or preparedness waa encouraging the
commission of murder didn't you?
A. Wer U murder yet,
W Do you mean by yes as an answer
to my question?
A. Yea
Q. You think all war Is murder?
A Yes.
Q And that anybody that advocates
preparedness for war la a murderer
alaoT
A. Not If It la In defence.
Q. I understood you to say that you
were responsible for what. Is In this
.booklet : la thst right?
A. Yea
Q. That you have read before It was
published?
A. I don't know whether I did or not.
U Well, now, you said a moment ago,
or a few moments ago, as I understood
you that you msant to Imply and have
me readers unoersiano, mat men who
did these things that you referred to
were guilty of promoting murder?
A. Yea:" ,
Q. And that anybody who advocates
preparedness war In that class?
A. If It was for overpreparednesa.
Q. Who was It that ever advocated
anything that you regarded aa an ad
vocacy of overpreparednesa?
A. I cannot recall Just now.
Q. Cannot you name a single man?
A. No, sir ; I don't know aa I can.
Book aoel Agralaat Ford.
Q. Let's see ori that questlol, Mr.
Ford, weren't you against all prepared
ness, and don't you say so In thla. book?
Didn't you say io In this book?
A Eventually, yea. sir.
Q. Now at the very time you published
thla statement, weren't you advocating
absolute non-preparedness?
A. I considered we were amply pre
pared. Q Let us call your attention to this
on page I (reading) ! "The nations of
the world need an example to lead them
away from war, and thla, the country
we lire In, 1s, I believe, the land destined
to shew the world the way toward the
end of this murder." Another "mur
der" (reading) : "The world haa fol
lowed the United States for generations
In all that goes for progress. Let ua
have disarmament." Weren't you ad
vocating; at that time absolute non-preparedness
and absolute disarmament In
August, ms?
A Was. yes.
Q. It was not a question of over-
preparedness. It was a question of no
preparedness at all an absolute dis
armament, waan't It?
A. Question of International courts or
a league of natlona
Q. But so far aa the attitude of the
United Btatea was concerned, you Con
tended that there should be not onlv
no further preparedness but that It'
should then be dlaarman)ent by I the
: United States, didn't you?' I. -win ask
'you another question to make it clear.
Let ua have disarmament, let us ahow
that we mean peace when we aay the
word and the world will follow?
A. That waa a good plan I think.
Q. That waa what you were advocat
ing at that time, wasn't It?
A. Yea.
Q. That Is what you meant .by what
you aaid In this booklet?
A. If It led to a league, yes.
Q Are there any "Ifa" about It here?
A. Perhaps going on further there
may be.
Q. There is nothing In thla whole boot:
about a league of natlona, la there; no
reference to ItT
A. I. don't know.
Q. You had It published, didn't you?
A. Yea
Q. You said you read It.
A. Part of It
Q. Do you recollect reading anything
in here about a league of natlona?
A I don t recollect : no, air.
World's 'laughter Preaoksd,
Q. Following that paragraph, on the
same page, you say : "I feel and I have
the world's history and the spirit of a
world's people back of ms that the
preparedness" now being preached Is
rothlng but a criminal waste, k call tc
laughter, and a disgrace to a nation
that has been the guiding star of tha
world toward liberty, happiness and
peace?"
A. I don't recall that.
Q. I think you raid In this book, Mr.
Ford, that the President was a very
great man?
A Yea, sir.
Q. Have you changed your mind?
A. I say I think he Is a greater man
now.
Alfred Lucking What has that got
to do with thla case?
Q. Let us see: (Reading) "America
to-day should give thanks to Providence
that a man like Wood row Wilson, who
cannot be swayed by tho military clique,
is given the country, just as Abraham
Lincoln was given In another time of
stress and peril. Every man In the world
should be thankful for the man who
now alts firm, deaf to the shouts of the
jingoes who would drive the oountry
Into the slaughter or into a wild
scramble to straddle a military ring
upon us. Do you know of anybody
that waa trying to drive the country
Into the slaughter?
A. I thought there were many people
that wera
Q. Can you give ua the name of one?
A, No.
Q. And yet you made the statement
In thle booklet that there was a ling
trying to Impress the President and
foroe him Into war?
A. I did aay that. yee.
Q. Without knowing a thing about It?
A. What I had read.
Q. We will turn to murder No.' I.
Mr. Lucking What page?
Would Stop Waste of Money.
Q. On page t (reading) : "It is every
body's business to know how the moneys
of the country are spent and how the
wisdom and Judgment of the chief exe
cutives Is directed, the sooner will we
get to understand this, the sooner will
h stopped the wanton waste of money
Tor murderous and destructive agencies,
such aa warships, guns and arms." Will
you state what you meant by that?
A. It ta overpreparednesa, the same.
Q. Yet you ray you did not know any
body who was advocating overprepared
nesa?
A. Yes.;
Q. You say you don't know anybody
mat was advocating overpreparedneas?
A. I know that there were numbers,
but I didn't know any particular per
son. Q. Was the President one of them?
a If the book ras so. he waa.
Q. I am asking you, Mr. Ford?
i
A. I thought perhaps he was, maybe
he waa
Q. You thought the President waa for
over-preparedness?
A. Yea
Q. That he waa one of the men ad
vocating preparation to commit murder?
A. War Is murder.
Q. That Is the only view of what you
have aaid, Is It?
A. Yes. I think there la a' better way.
Q, Have you any other view about
war than that It la murder, and every
body engaged In war la a murderer?
A. I am strong for preparedneaa now,
unless we have a league of nations.
Q. Tou are?
A. Yes. air, right to tha hilt
Alfred Lucking What la that?
Mr. Klrkland Unless we have a
league of nations.
Q. You were strong for preparedness
In 1111?
A. No. I thought we were adequate
enough.
Q. Why are you for preparedness
now? Because you found It necessary?
Alfred. Lucking That la objected to.
The Court Take it.
A. It Is nseeaaary now unlets we have
a league of nations?
Q. No war threatens now.
Alfred Lucking Objected to as In
competent and Immaterial.
The Court You may take It
A We want te end It now for all time.
Q. There should be a great war to
settle It, unless we have a league of
natlona?
A. I think so.
Q. When other people thought that in
1I1S and lilt, you did not think so,
did, you? You called them murderers'.'
r. iu,.'King We object to that.
The Court Take It
A. I don't know whether they had In
mind the League of Nations or not.
Wants Leagrae of Nations.
Q. You think now that preparedness
would be an Insurance against war, don't
youT
A. If It was used Immediately.
Judge Murphy objected to that as In
competent Q Are you In favor of having a great
army now. to go over and clean It up?
A. Unlesa we get a league ot nations.
Q. So that, If we don't get a league
of natlona, you want thla Government,
this country, to go to war again?
A. I want them to clean It up now
and for all time to coma
Q. You still think men who go to war
are murderers?
Judge Murphy: I object to that as
Incompetent and Immaterial. All It . alls
for la hla present view.
The Court: Take the answer.
A. Not men who are pressed Into war.
Q. Not the men who are pressed Into
war?
A. No. air.
Q. But the men who are pressed Into
war have to be led by professional sol
diers, haven't they?
A. They are the ones, yes.
Q. What la that?
A. The professional soldier is the one I
have referred to when I say "murderer."
Q. Then men like Gen. Pershing are
murderers, la that the Idea?
A Well-
' Q. He la a professional soldier, Isn't
he?
A. I don't know whether he is not not.
Q. Don't you know that he Is a grad
uate of West Point? e
A I think Gen. Pershing will aay
that he has committed many a murder.
Q. You think that Gen. Perahlng will
say he has committed murder?
A. Yes, sir.
"Kllllha Aay One Is Harder."
Q. He Is one of the men that you clas
sified as a murderer, la he?
A. He la a professional soldier.
Q. And you classified all professional
soldiers as murderers 1
A. t don't know what else It la but
murder.
Q. Whst do you mean by murder?
A. War, killing people.
Q. Killing people because it Is neces
sary to protect the Interests of the pub
lic, do you call that murder?
A Killing any one la murder.
Q. You think It Is murder to kill peo
ple to uphold the rights of the people of
the United States?
A If It Is necessary.
Q. Let ua go a little further on your
Idea of murderers. You aay) all profes
sional soldiers and that includes Oen.
Perahlng?
A Yea
Q. Oen. Grant was one of thoae pro
fessional soldiers, wasn't he?
A Yes: snd I think he said that war
was murder, too.
Q. Do you know of any place where
he said that war was murder?
A I have been told so ; I may be
mistaken.
Q. Oen. Sherman said that war was
hell, but he never said it was murder
that I ever heard of. did you?
A I think Oen. Sheridan said It was
murder.
Q. Will you be good enough to get a
reference to anything where Gen. Sheri
dan said any such a thing, either Sher
man or Sheridan?
Mr. Lucking We will get the refer-
enesj.
Q. Who told you Oen. Sheridan said
that?
A. Some man aent In a letter and said
It was.
Q. But you didn't know that when
you wrote these letters, when you clas
sified them as murderers, did you?
Classified as Murderers.
A I classified them as murderers,
yes, sir.
Q. In what way do you distinguish
between the professional aoldler and
the rank and file? You made no dis
tinction at all in your arguments. In
your statements here, did you?
A. The professional soldier la a man
who makes a living out of It
Q. They make a pretty poor living.
compared with making automobiles,
don't they?
Judge Murphy : I object to that.
The Court: The objection la good. It
It sustained.
Q. A professional soldier Is a man
who devotes hla life to the profession,
lan't be?
' Yea.
Q. And the men who devote their Uvea
to the Interests of their government,
without any hope ot any great reward,
you called murderers?
A. I said all professional soldiers were
murderers, people who made a living
out of It and killed people.
Q. Now we will go to murderers No.
four, I think It Is now.
A. Yea
Mr. Stevenson : I hate war because
It is murder.
Mr. Lucking: What page?
Mr. Stevenson : Page 7.
CJ Another statement by you In this
booklet?
A. If It la there. It la so.
Q. What was the purpose of this
booklet?
A. Educative.
Q. Education?
A. Yea.
U That Is what you wanted, to edu
cate the people of the Pulled States?
A Cause people to think, anywuy.
Q. Against participating or contribut
ing; or aiding in creating an army?
A. In war murder.
Q. There wasn't any proposal to mur
der anybody at that time?
A. War is all murder.
iuetronrd on Ballet meate.
Q. You proposed or wanted to Influ
ence the public to prevent any additions
to the army, because you called It mur
der: that Is true?
A. I think It Is
Q. Or any additions to the navy?
A. Not If we had sufficient to protect
ourselves.
Q. You knew .the Government at this
time. In IMfl of thereabouts, was en
deavoring to get recruits for the army?
A. In 1111, I don't know.
Q. Don't you know there was. right
In Detroit, In tho most public places in
Detroit, recruiting stations'.'
A. Yea. all of the time, I think.
Q. .And the purpose of your publica
tion was to Influence the public not to
recruit for the army, was It not?
A. To Influence them as to what war
was.
Q. Wasn't It to Influence them not to
recruit for the army?
A. To Influence them as to what they
were going Into : what It waa.
Q. Was the purpose of It to eo edu
cate the people that they would not re
cruit In the amy?
A. Well, If It had that effect, yes.
Q. You expected 11 to have that effect?
A. Yea
Q. You intended it to have that effect,
did you?
Henry Ford as He Appeared Recently
While Testifying in Court Trial
H' " Vj
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I A. Yea, air. The gambler does not
do any harm.
4. You prefer the gambler to the pro
' fesaional soldier?
I A. Yes. sir.
Q. Do you think thsre In any profes
sional gambler that has done more for
this nation than Gen. Grant'.'
A. No, I don't think so.
Q. You don't think ao. Why do you
put men like Oen. Grunt In a claaa worse
than profesalonal gamblers?
A. That la all ,'iaat history.
Q. What do you know about history?
You said you did not know about his
tory "
A. You am taking It up. We all
know about Urn. Grant.
Q. Let ua take present history Take
Oen. Pershing. You presented him to
the public as being leas worthy than
profesalonal gamblers of the country,
didn't you?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Didn't you nuan to convey by what
I have read that as compared with pro
fessional gambler, the military man
was worse because he advocated gam
bling In human lives?
A. The professional soldier, yea.
Mr. Ford will u idergo two or three
ftiore days of this kind of examination
A. Yea
Q. Don't you recollect that on aajOunt
of Just such talk aa this that the Gov
ernment was compelled to adopt con
scription? A. 1 think conscription Is the only fair
way.
(j. You were opposed to conscription?
A. No.
Q. Didn't you say conscription was
one of the things to be hated In your
article?
A. That la the law ; that 1. when we
have U.
f i I, i, . an., ih.,1 e. inscr I lit I, in
was the basis for militarism?
A. I don't know about that ; I don't 1
think so.
Q. You thought conscription was a
good thing?
A. I know conscription Is the law.
Conscription the Kalreet Way.
Q. What you said, while you were op
posed to n Increases In the army. If it
hid to be Increased, was the faireM way
to do it would be by conscription?
A. That Is the proper way.
Q. 1 call your attention to "concern
ing preparedness : conscription, the base
of militarism. Is advoca'cd only." What
do you mean by that?
A I think Mr. Delavlgne wrote that,
y. You think he wrote It ?
A. Yea
Q. Wrote It for you?
A. Yea ; I am reeponslble for It. but 1
think he added that paragraph.
Q. It was not in accordance with your
views?
A. Not Just like that
Q. You put those things In' circula
tion throutrhcit the United States, for
the public to read and be Influenced by
them?
A. Yes.
Q. Now. you say some of the things
you said In that were not your views,
but were Mr. Delavlgne's?
A. He wrote It.
Q. You signed It?
A. I think I algned It. and- 1 am re
eponslble for It
Q. Did you ever deny It?
A. No, air.
4. You still aay, notwithstanding what
you aaid there, that you are In favor of
conacrlptlon, if there had to be an In
crease in the army?
A If we have war, I am In favor of
conacrlptlon.
Q. "I am having this statement
printed In the advertising columns of
newspapers and magasines throughout
the United Slates. Others will follow."
Do you recollect that?
A If It is in the book.
Q. "I have no other purpose than to
save America from bloodshed, and its
young man from conscription." Is that
Mr. Delsutigne, too?
A If It waa In there. It went out; It
waa Mr. Delavlgna,
Q. It was not yours?
A No, it was not mine.
Doesn't Think He Read It.
Q. It went out over your signature?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you read It?
A I don't think so.
Q, Do you mean to tell this Jury that
you had set out to educate the people.
advertisements printed broadcast all
over this country, and you did not know
what was In them?
A. I sent out many statements to
cause people to think.
Q. You mean to be understood as say
ing that you aent the thousands ami
hundreds of thousands of gtatamenal
broadcast throughout the I'nlted States
and did not know what wait In them?
A. I did not know everything that was
in them.
Q. "The nations of the world need an
example to lead them away from war.
and thla, the country we live In, la. I
believe, the land destined to show the
world the. ways toward the end of this
murder." Ia that your view?
A. 1 still believe It.
Q. Therefore vou said : ''Let us hnve
dlaarmament ; let ua ahow that we mean
peace when we say the word and the
world will follow In that, too." That
waa your remedy?
A. Yea, if it la In there.
Q. "If theae men who brought on the
war were lnaane we could poroprshand
the cause of the war : but when we
think that it Is all done coldly, deliber
ately by these militaristic parusites and
that mtlllona of men are torn from the
life that la theirs by right of birth and
driven to alaughter by the eystem of
murder that envelopa those nations we
are crushed by the enormous crime."
Do you think that Belgians were com
mitting murder?
Judge Murphy : That is objected to aa
Incompetent and Immaterial
The Court : The objection is sustained.
Q. Do you believe In the right ot a
country tt defend Itself?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you believe It Is the duty of
a ceuntry to defend Hs clllsena?
Care anything about
A. Teg, air.
,Q. Wy disarming?
A., By getting prepared up to date.
, Q. What do you mean by "disarma
ment" Mr r'nrd'.' , .
A What we are ilng to get In a
short time. I think; all the world dis
armed. Q. What was meant In 191."-?
A. All the world disarmed. That is
what disarmament is.
Q. You were talking about the United
States In this, were you no'.?
A, I was talking about the world
ivory person, averybody,
U. Were not you talking distinctly
(bout the I'nlted States, .Mr. Ford? You
aaid, "Let us di.rarm." Or. "let us have
disarmament" Ytu were not talking
about the world, were you?
A. Yes, air; I meant the world.
4 You meant the world when you
were talking about "us," the people of
the United State.'
A. I Msai martieiit everywhere.
Q. So that What you wanted was for
this country to disarm in the liojn that
he. rest cf the world would follow?
A I think they would have been glad
to.
I). (Heading) : "In all history of the
world I cannot find one man who has
Justllled war.'' I thought you did not
take any stock In history.
objected to as Incompetent i
Q. You said ho In 111! and lilt,
didn't you, that you did not take any
stock in history ; It was tradition?
A. Yua. .
Q. You think so more now than then"
A 1 do. yes.
Mr. Stevenson : They harge the 7"ri
ltme with saying he was i::norant. an
ignorant Idealist.
A. I admit 1 am sjaOMItt aiiout most
things.
y. Then you admit, wlen the ChlCasTO
TViowfle said In the article of June 23.
1 K 1 C. that you were an Ignorant Idealist,
that that was true"
ays lie tikes the lluujo.
A. 1 am not ignornnt about all tilings.
W- Hut you dn't know about history?
A. Not very much about history
Q And you don't believe it, art'.'
A. I am cdtnlng tO lik it a little bel
ter than J did.
Q, You dun't
music?
A I never said that.
(..I. You like the banjo and tUldlt-?
A. I vkc the banjo, yes,
Q Hut history WSJ bunk and art a
no good?
A. I did not say it was bunk. It was
bunk to me. but I did not say
Q. It was bunk to you?
A. It was not much to me.
U- HaM CM you tell how the future
should l? cared for without knowing
tho experiences of the past'.'
A. 1 did not pay any attention to the
future.
Q What. do you mean'.' Do you think
that you can provide for the future and
care wisely with reference to the future
in mattera like preparation for defence
or anything of that wort without know
ing the history of what has happened
In the paat?
Mr Murphy Objected to as argumen
tative. The Court Take the nnswer.
A. When we got into the war the past
didn't amount to much for us.
Q. What do you mean by "history
didn't last a week''" I
A. In the present war.
Q. You mean that history didn't last
whHt history?
A. Airships and things we used were
out of data in a week.
Q 1 will go back to the uuestton where
you said you would admit that you were
ignorant.
A. Op some things,
y Do you admit the statement of tho
article that you complain of. that you
were an idealist?
A. 1 don't udmlt that. That would
meaji that I was ignorant of every
thing. t. Are you ignorant of the funda
mentals of this Government?
A. I don't know what vou mean by
the .fuudamen als; principles?
Q. You don't know what the funda
mental, principles of the Government
mean ?
A. I don't understand It. Mr. Steven
eon. ,
y what do you consider the funda
mental prltK-iplrgtoi the Government'.'
A. Justice, I think.
Q. Do you know that a fufuiamcntal
principal of the Government Is the right
of the Government to create an army.
Un't it?
A. WWo s the government?
Q. Well, who is the Government, I will
at-k you?
A. The reiple.
Huiinltiir the Government.
Q The people coinmlaalon then to
govern, so far. Government Is iernio
slblc under our method of j'uuniug af-,
and In the meantime will undoubtedly
be protected In every way possible by
counsel.
FORD'S SON CALLED "PET."
Senator Sherman Attack's Uxemp
tlon Prom War Service.
Washiwoton. July, 15. Kxstnptlon
from military service of Edael Ford, son
of the Detroit automobile manufacturer,
was tho subject of an attack in the
Senate to-day by (senator Sherman (111 ).
who said young Ford waa "a Presiden
tial pet" and had been saved from serv
ice In the army by an abuse of execu
tive lower.
The Illinola Senator aaaerted thst as
a member of the committee considering
the Ford-N jwberry Senatorial contest
he had aaked Secretary Baker for a
copy of the proceedings In the Ford
exemption proceedings, but that the re
quest had been denied on the ground
that tho hearings were not a public rec
ord. Mr. Sherman said he desired to es
tablish that Henry Ford had been de
feated In the Senatorial election because
of the "contempt" of the people of Mich
igan over his son's exemption.
CHILDREN THRIVE IN
OUTDOOR STUDIES
FORM COMPANY TO
DEYELOP MEXICO
Royal Botanical Garden. Are
Scene of Daily Classes
for Little Ones.
falri ajid the Constitution of the United
State, & ., and to have them run the
Go ornment.
A As I'.iik hs fhey an- going right.
Q, They cannot chnnjtv it except every
two yearn or every four yenrH, CM they?
A. They ran they ean erturate.
.. Maw otv would you ctlftflffQ the
Government except by an election?
A. You cannot change the whole Oov-
, eminent, no ulr.
Ki'fera, to in rr onteat.
Q, Can you change Congrens without
' an election?
j A. No. air.
Q What did you say?
A You can change Mr. Newberry.
Q. ToU have not nu acceded very far
yet. have you?
A. We have not quit.
Q, Vou atll! want to be Senator, do
you?
A. No. htr.
Q And I again continue (reading):
, "What can we think of men who cry
aloud against murder and yet fly eagerly
j to plait In the hands of their children,
' nr.- nioro frequently, the children of their
more humble brother, tb implement
-f murder?" What did you mean by
"implements of murder"?
Alfred Lurking -What page?
Mr. Stenaon I 'age LO.
A Anything that is used In war.
Q. OunS pistols, swords, anything of
that kind?
A. Yes. sir
Q. Liberty motors?
A. Anything, yes
0. What did you mean by this (read
ing) ; "What can we think of men who
cry aloud against murder and yet fly
eagerly to place in the handa of the
children of their more humble brothers
the Implements of murder?" Is that
some mote of Mr. Delavlgne's imagina
tion? A. Yes. that ia some more of Mr.
Petavignes. Ya, yea, sir I don't
suits understand it thoroughly.
g We will leave that. Page 10
read In v) : "Aside from the burning fact
that war Is murder, the waste of lives
and 'homes and lands and that 'pre
pi redness has never prevented war, but
Mas ever brought war to the world
aside from all thla is the uttt-r futility
(from a cold, hard business view alone)
of the equipment of an army to-day
with weapons that are obsolete to-mor-iw
" , What did you mean by lh.it. -Mr.
Ford ?
A. fretting prepared out of dat.
' . l that why you ure opposed to
preparedness?
A. That is one fo the reasons; yes.
sir. That Is. over-preparedness.
Q. Do you know anything about the
r solution. Mr. Ford"
A Yes. sir. ,
KaoWS Flintlock Apr Obaolrtr.
J. Dou you have in mind, or do you
understand, that the flintlock muskets
'were- need in a revolution?
A. They are all nut of dite, 1 know.
Q. What revolution did you have In
mind. Mr Ford
A. In 1S12.
. Q. You don't know of any other?
A. No.
Q 'Pon't you know there was not any
revolution In 1 S 12 ?
A.l don't know that; i did not pay
much attention to It.
Q. Don't you know that this country
wak born out of a revolution in 1776?
pld you fori st that?
A. 1 guess I did.
Q. Otrads) 'The advice of militarists
aa to the need of a vast army and navy
Is it hoist the rame as the advice of a
group of professional gamblers would be
In the framing of civil laws. Tho only
difference I1 that the military men would
gamble' with human llvt-s and the peace
and pb-aai for 'national honor' when they
mean eional glorification" or 'blood
money.' "
A That Is Delavlgne's language, but
1 umlSrstshd all war 1 a nuieance to
military men.
g. All wars are a nuisance?
A. Yes
Q, 1 got the impression that you ld
that thai was the onlv wav thai thev
j could show what their trick 1.
A. The same thing
Q Then you regarded It as a nuisance
and then as a mean of showing their
triOkS which Is it. now, Mr Ford '
A . Hot It,
Q. This compares people who advo
cate prips redness with gamblers, and
with professional gamblers, and makes
the die Unction that a professional gam
hlir 4i a mopi respectable man. be
cause toe military man is gambling with
human lives instead of money?
A. Yes, sir.
Soldier Worse Than (mhler,
Q In other words, you put toe gol
dier h low the professional gambler?
A Y.
They gamblv with Uvutf?
SjWCiSf Correspondence to Tue Sim.
LONDON, June 30. Visitors to the
Royal Botanical Gardens In London
theae days will find little groups ot
children sitting at their lesson under
the trees. They do not sit long, for the
classes last only fifteen or twenty min
utes each and then there Is a change
of Interest. The children go into the
museum for musical French games or
acamper off to the little garden where
they grow flowers and vegetables, or
they have a "sand"' geography lesson,
making mnps and plans of the gardens.
Tho day is all too short for them; there
la none of the peevishness that makes
leaching such hsrd work for thoae who
have charge of children. They are not
easily disturbed by vleltors or outslda
Interests, far they live their school life
in an atmosphere of pleasant sounds,
the rustling of trees and the bumming
c-f ises In their own little corner of the
grounds.
There are about fifty children, and
their ages range from four to nine. So
far from the open air school retarding
the acquisition of knowledge, it has
been found that the children, when they
leave for preparatory schools, often
take their places In higher classes than
other children of their years. The hab
its of concentration learned in the short
classes of the open air school stand
them in good stead.
No Hlfkneaa Interfering.
Above all they profit from the fact
that at open air schools there are no
measles, mumps, scarlet fever or other
familiar elements which are so prevalent
In other "academies." Anyone who
has taught Indoor and watched the at
tention of the youngsters waning as
they tire In the cooped up atmosphere
of the ordinary school wou'd be sur
prised at the different attltv'de toward
teachers and subject that learning out
of doors engenders.
Moat of the llttls ones who go te
school in the Botanical Gardens an the
children of Harley street and WlmpOle
street. Doctors and others have be
come convinced of the advantages of
open air teachers. The school owes ill
origin to the wife of a Wlmpoie streel
doctor herself also a doctor who.
when her children were old enough for
school, was dissatisfied at the stuffiness
of most children's schools and appealed
to an enterprising educationalist to
start open air classes.
Tho woman to whom the appealed
said she wovld do o If enough pupils
were forthcoming. So from among her
medical and other friends she collected
ten or twelve children, and a start was
made six years ago. The pioneer children
have since gone to preparatory school,
having rearhed the age limit set. and
others come cafti year in Increasing
numbers to take their places.
Want More Outdoor Hchool.
Many parents who arc not living
within easy reach of the gardens are
eager to have" aimilar schools started
near them, but there are difficulties In
securing the right place. At the garden
the school has the use of the ballroom
for the winter and wet days, and the
children come with plenty of wrape
for t he short classes In which they
have to alt at work, but they never
seem to mind snow or cold, as they
quickly get warm when they go outside
for games and nature vtudy.
Tho school hours are from 9:S0 to
12:30, except for the youngest children.
Who are left by their nurses for about
an hour and a half and then taken
away. In tho winter the nurses gen
erally retire Into the hothouses while
; they are waiting for their charges.
I go fond are the children of their
1 school that they even come on birth
jdays and, as a birthday treat, ask that
I the school may last longer. A similar
School w as Started in Kens'.ngten C)ar
dens, but it had to be given up for-lack
or shelter on wet days. Among pro
gressive mothers there is a growing de
mand for more outdoor life for the
town child, and many are dreading the
prospect of having to send their children
to the ordinary school. Yet those who
coaild help in such ventures which arc
llOt unremuneralive are not enterpris
ing enough to do o.
Woll Known Business Men
Organize Here to Aid in
Rehabilitation.
Announcement aaa made last nlxht
of the organisation of tho Mexican In
ternational Corporation by u R-roup if
men which Includes several officers tr
Important banking- and business Inter
ests. The oUlcere of the new corpora
tion will be: President. Thomas H.
Olllesple. president of the T. A. Gillespie
Company ; vice-president. Ueoritc J. Mc
carty, Vlce-presldeht of the Mercantile
Banking Company, Ijtd.. of Mexico City.
The corporation haa been orcnlsed un
der the lawa of Delaware, and will
maintain offlcea hero and In Mexico
City.
The board of directors Is composed of
Harvey D. Olbson, president of the Lib
erty National Bank ; Thomas A. Ulllea
ple, Qeorce J. Mccarty, Grayson M. P.
Murphy, vice-president of the Ouarantjr
Trust Company of New York ; James H.
Perklna, vice-president of the National
City Bank ; William C. Potter of C.ute-n-helm
Brothers; Charlea 8. Sargent, Jr.,
of Kidder, Peabody A Co. ; Eugene V.
B. Thayer, president of the Chase Na
tlonal Bank, and H. s Brown. In an
nouncing; the organlaatlon of the new
.'orporation Mr. Ulbaon and Mr. M'Jrphy
made the following; statement I
"For the United Btatea the course of
Mexican affairs Is partlcularr vital, anil
If properly followed should nffer unusual
opportunities. Not only is Mexico so lo
cated as to afford u natural ncld for
Investment and development by our peo
ple, but she haa unexplolted natural re
sources, the mere scratching: of which
would provide the means to clear off
all her national debt and place her on a
sound financial baala.
"Witt, a soil capable of producing all
the cereal crops and 90 per cent, of all
the known fruits of the world, with vaat
tracta of timber, Including many varie
ties of precious hard wooda and dye
woods, with a wide range of climate,
with every known mineral, and with oil
fields which exported more than 63.
000,000 barrels In 1918. Mexico needs
only a return to normal conditions and
the Introduction of modern methods and
modern machinery to bring her quickly
Into the front rank of the producing
world."
B. & 0. MAY RESUME DIVIDEND.
Wlllard It Depends oat r.arly
Restoring; of Normal Conditions.
pertol Oripalrh to Tar 8i:k.
Baltimore. July 15. In a lengthy
letter to stockholders. Just isaued. Dan
iel Wlllard. president of the Baltimore
and Ohio Railroad Company, apeak!-, on
the whole, optlmlatlcally and intimates
that with early restoration to normal
conditions dividends on hla company a
common atork may be reaumed
On that point ho says: "If Federal
control of the railroads ia terminated on
December Si next and If Congresa In
the meantime provides a wise and con
structive policy of regulation for the
future, and If the Dlrector-Gvneral or
the Interstate Commerce Commlsalon
will authorize and nvike effective before
that date auch addltlctvl advanre In the
'Stea and charges as may he necessary
to restore proper relation between rev
enue and operating expenses, and 1 be
lieve thaf we may reasonably expect all
of these things to be done, J can see Sto
reason why the rallroada generally may
not thereby be placed upon a sound and
self sustaining basis or why the Balti
more and Ohio In particular may not
look forward with confidence to an early
reatoratlon of normal conditions, which
should, of course, be accompanied by a
return of reasonable dividend payments
to holders of Baltimore and Ohio com
mon shares "
He reviews matters which led up to
the neceaatty for passing the dividend
on the common atock. which In sub
stance are familiar. He argues that a
further IncreaKe In raftrond rates and
charges of aubstantlnl character are imperative
D00LING DOUBTS DESPATCHES.
BOLSHEVIST ARMY BEATEN.
Hack Kara Drnlklne Has Captured
80(004 Beds.
A. J. Hack, director of the Bueslan
I Information Ilureau In the I'nlted States.
issued a statement last night dealing
i with the military situation In Siberia,
I based on the latest despatches received
Uy him from Omsk and Ekaterlnodar.
j The statement says that although Ad
j n:lral Kolchak's army has withdrawn
' to the line of the middle Kama, the
; Belaya Klver and the upper Vfa River.
tblg movement has given Oen Denlklne's
southern army an opportunity to ad
vance. ien. Drniklne, the statement
si..- haa captured 30,000 prisoners,
much material and has greatly extended
bis field or action.
"The aapture of Tsaritxlti Is the latest
striking success of this army,'' says the
statement. "The Tenth Bolshevik Army
Is beaten, having lost three-fourlha of
Its men The Fourteenth, Twenty-third
and Sixteenth divisions likewise have
been almost annihilated. An advance of
some 150 to 100 mllea has been made.
' While this was going on In the aouth
and east, a new front has been formed
In the northwest that Qen, Vudenlch,
whuae a-nny, aupportud by the itthon
lans. have occupied the approaches to
I'etrograu.'
Proaeeator Ready for Any Develop
ment la Meana-KIng Case.
John T. Doollng. Assistant DIatr.ct
Attorney, refused to be disturbed yestet-
umjt uy ueapaicnes rom t uncord. N. C,
saying that he was wanted on a warrant
Issued there charging him with BUbor
; nation of perjury and conaplracy In con
I nectton with the prosecution of c.aston
B. Means In 1917 for the alleged murder
. of Mra. Maude A. King.
I Mr. Doollng aeemed to regard the war
rant In the nature of a hoax, which, he
aaid "may be Intended to influence the
, Judge at Chicago In Means's ll.OOO.OOu
I damage suit against the Northern Trust
i Company of OhU-ago. and Its attorney
William B Miller," who with Doollng.
aaalated In the prosecution of Means at
Concord In December, 1917.
When aaked what hs would do If an
indictment were found againat him
which would call for his extradition
...r iooung said : "I am pr,Pared for
that or any other issue."
: ALIEN LABOR LIMIT BEATEN
Hons of Commons Rejects BUI ta
Restrict Employment.
. Lovpok. July U.The clause of the
j alien bill reatrlctlng the amount of alien
t labor to be employed by any peraon
.company or firm lm the country to 10
, per cent, of the working staff was r-
Jected by the Committee of the WTvM
; ,n ne House of Commone to-da"
Deeplte strong opposition on the rart
of the Oovemment. a committee of th.
House of Commons on Julv in pa,c,
tho clause restricting the number sf
oltens to be employed In tlreat Britain
The Commlfee f thp vVhole of tlx
House however, had the final dispoaltlot
of the matter.