The national intelligencer and Washington advertiser. [volume], March 26, 1802, Image 1

About The national intelligencer and Washington advertiser. [volume] (Washington City [D.C.]) 1800-1810

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NATIONAL INTELLIGENCER,
WASHINGTON ADVERTISER.
Pol. 11
Fltrß Dolls, pru arm.
National Intelligencer.
DEBATE
Q n am the Senate,
' w Art Act to rtairt
t respecting the organisation of the
courts of the United States.
Mr. Macon-. As no other member
at pre&nt feeraa jiifprtfed to take
. I will afk the attention .of the
inittee for a few minutes. I have at
:d with tl <<■ patience and
nee to the arguments of gentle
»fe the bill aa unconftitu-
I thy produced a fuigle
c in my mind on the point of con*
tonality, I fhmild raoft cci
voted with th. the bill on
yoUr table ; but I can with truth fay, I
not heard any argument
firft cowvii
fa a conftitutional right
this queftiori,
proper to bring into view a
~,-c of the ftate, in-
Ltng her fenatotSf s
i to tha reprefeatatives t i
ndeavours toobtak
;.;•>. On this ref. I
giflature, they made foute
t ; irk 3, which 1
t
practice of the legi
t'roin the commencement of tft
■ ■
,-r fenators, and to v
'■prefentatives, to j >
in c a lures on at)
;ed the intereft of the Rate r q
and this- proceeding'ias never been con
fide red improper. I {hall endeavor to an
itlemen in the order they
fp o k rig with my colleague Mr.
;7, who was fud on the floor.
If I umieri'rood him rightly, («nd if J
not my deli-e to initiate a Qn
he laid that the legift&ture of the ftate
trts, in
ice of th( of the Prc
fident; but upon examination of the
dates this will be found to be impofli-
The imiY not hive reach
ed the hvifl.iture before the qaeftion 00
the resolutions was taken and decided ;
and on no important queftion was that
body ever more unanimous, and though
my colleague has faid, the queftion was
there viewed but on onefi.de and decid
ed in a maimer ex parte, yet I will be
bold to fay, if there were any member
in that legislature who thought on this
he does, he enjoyed the fame
right there that my colleague does here
to deliver his fentiments.
Knowing as I do, the great talents
and integrity of my colleague, and 1 be
r,ne on this floor knows them
better, I was furprifed when he charged
others of being under the influence of
on, when his conduct muft convince
i, that he was guided by the very
iiich he attributed to others.
quoted the conftitution of North-
Garolina ; let us examine it, and fee
i her his argument can be aided by
..wictic.e under that infirument. The
le is in the following words,
that ' the general aiTcmbly (hall by joint
ballot of bothJboules, appoint judges of
fupreme CTmrt of law and equity,
judges of admiralty, and attorney gene
ral, who lhall be commiifioned by the
governor, and hold their offices during
good behaviour.* On this claufe, he not
ndence of the itate judi
; and they ate independent fo long
:Uw creating their office is in force
and no longer ; and it is worthy of no
ir. this fcdYion no mention is
of fajary, and yet the judges have
id as independent as the
United States. Soon af
!option of the eonftitution, the
ftabliftied courts
onformtty thereto ; feri
rtlj and then (uperior, -
': by a legiflative act, with i
lecVm ive the fu.
perili, Idltioiul jurifdiclton
of a court of equity, and never a fi
int, that (
WASHINGTON CUT, PRINTED BY SAMUJ IRISON SMITH, PENNSYLVANIA AVh.
you can b,y the fame power take it a
way, and what becomes in this ca
the commiffion which is to be held dur
tviour? It is according to
my conftrutlion, to laft no longer than
the law which created the office remains
in force, and this is long enough to make
the judges independent. As to the fala
ry of the judges in North-Carolina; the
21ft fet\ion of the conftitution fays,
' they (hah* have adequate tiring
their continuance 1h office,' and yet
this clear right in the legislature, - to lef
fen as well as to add to their fala
the judges it is agreed are independent.
My Colleague well fcno »s, that many at-,
tempts have been made to deprive the
fuperior courts, or exnxifing any jurif
dlftion in cafes of equity; and he alio
knows, that attempts have been made to
eftablifh a court of appeals,'which Ihould
revile the decifiVns of the fuperior courts
now in being, and by the coollitution of
the ftate any fupreme court, may on
prefentment of a grand jury, try the
vernorfor inal -adiuiiiiftration, See. and,l
believe that the prefent courts aw
thorifed to do this. I have not at this
place been able the :\t\ which
gives this authority, but n
fertained of the fa&. 11
that in North-Caroiina, all
lit, that « dvi < havionr'
only meant I'c long as the office exiftcd,
becaufe by eftablifhing a court of
peals, the now iii bein j
not be fupreme judges; and in
various attemps noone'evet charged ei
ther of them to be Uriccmftkiitional,
the conftitution of In
Carolina,it will be found, that
provifion for tYe appointment of i
rsbytheli noth
ing about adequate com
"in hift read, and i!
take the office away, what is an
quale fidary for doing nothing ?
tfcer proof might be drawn from
North-Carolina, in I
I hold, which is I
fupreme court fhall hate a fe
genera) aff mbly,' and my (
knows, that the preffißt jud
not held a feat there, becaufe they are
fupreme Judges, And he alfo kn
that no one rv< r 3dubi d the eonftltutio :
nal right of the le. iftatuie to eft
the c >re-mentioned ; audit I
to me this, on his conftruclion, wo
a violation of the coitftiti
having once made a fupren it riiuft
a!w;'-; ', to IVcure, what he calls,
the independence of the judges.
Sir, I was aftoni(lied when my Col
league laid; that the judges fhcnlu hold
their offices whether ufeful or not, and
that their mdi p. udence was neceffary, as
h -emphatically laid, topiotcd\ the people
againft their worft enenn ryes ;
their ufefulnefs is the only tr
their neceffity, and if
, they ought not to he Cpliti
I will here afk my colleague, whether
fince the year 1783, he has heard ol
diforder in the State we reprefent
whether any act has been done there
which can warrantor juftify luch aw o
pinion, that ' it is neceffary to have
judges to protecl the people from their
worft enemies, themfclves*' I had
thought we the people formed this go
vernment, and might betnifbc! with it.
My colleague never could have v
ed this fentence, had he not been
verned by that p&ffion, which he fnp
pofes governs others. It is true
we are not a rich and wealthy Hate, but
it is equally true, that there is no State
it) the Union more attached to order and
law; and my colleague himfelf would
not fay, that it was neceffary to hive
judge 3 for this purpofe, in the country
we reprefent; the people there behave
decently without having federal ju
or (landing armies to protect them a
gainft themfelves. Is it not (Vrartge, that
the people fhould have fenfe enough to
pay their taxes, without being drove to it
by fuperior force, and not have feofe e
nough to take care of themfelves with
out this new judiciary. They certainly
contrived to do this, before the adt el
tablifhing this judiciary paffed.
An-ther expreffton of his equally a
ftonifhed me ; he laid, that on the 7ih
dey of December, a fpirit v.
fpread difcord and deftruftiori in i
countries, male its entry into
eaufe at the laft election, t'
thought proper to change fonie of ■
ut out fom
thole who had heretofore been in pow
er, and to power of di
cut opinions; that a deftroying fplrii
tered into all the pu
For what, fir, .
(liould eh
FRIDAY, MARCH 26th, 1802.
"o 1 lie mifchicf f We told,
Gray
ed, by the all d if its
enemies. Win
are not, nor do 1 think there are a i
this Houle ; but there are parties as well
in this Houfe as out of doors ; and no
man willies more fjneerely than '
that they were amalgamated,
may get rid of all
■i from impropt r refiecYioi
the confti
ftroyed ? The only c
; W ii the energy
i.—Sir, I fcarcely know what
to fay when I heir fuch imcom
timents Uttered fro..
I'mt \'o i,: •.>. of a
of which i us.—
le fays, if you repeal t» i
will opprefs tin poor ; it
much law can any where, put v
ower of the rich to opprefs the
v 'jpp ife y-u had no law at al!.
c rich oppi or ? Could
6, 8
■
law and g nth a
refs the many,' 6i many
" ? But the paffiirg the Will
her put it m th of the.
rpprefs , nor the poor to
.he rich. There will then he law
> prevent the one
other ; but wh I
pie ivmiii
ppreffion can h
as this e'oni
)Ie will know who to troft.
into view I
■
w', and th
j ; and will they oppreja the
ixes ooprei
it opprefs any body i If it will
ile will Cry out with
Virginia (Mr. Randolph) give
tij pr< • ive us
debts and protect uS
and abroad.—One woid lefpedY
appreh'ended by Nortl*-Ca
head ; the 40 th feci ion i
lion is in the following v
uiies to fet.
this ftate, bavin
allegiance t ay pur*
■ by other jifil means acquire, hold
gfer hoid of other real
eyear's refidence, fliall be dee H
ie citisssn."—After this can v,e
that -the people of that ftate have
■ of the lew aliens that may wifh
among them.
will you abohfh the mint,
■Mitiid attribute of fbvereij
I woil h the mini
attribute oi ay, became
ly a fplendid attribute of love
k nothing elfc ; it i. 6nS of thofe
eftabblhments which takes mo
pockets, without being of
lis .; in the ftate we. reprefent
I do not believe there are as many Cents
in circulation as there are counties—
This fplendid attribute of fovereitftfry
bar; not made money more plenty ; il his
only made more places for fpendin
My colleague next Paid, what I fit
ly wilh he had not find, that if you
the bill, he would neither ftied a tear nor
a ligh over the conlhtution ; if
we pal's the. bill, and the people Ihould
think we did wrong In fo doing, nay,
that it violates the conftitution in their
Bhave they not the power to
aek to its original {lamina, by
le corrective, which they can
very two years at the elections.
his done, would ui't the confti
tution then be worth ("on en in
his eftimation ; would it not be better to
cherilh this expectation, than to deftroy
the conftitution, and put every thing
? Would not this be much b
than confulion, anarchy and the fword of
brother drawn againlt brother? As to
myfelf I confide in the people, firmly be
lieving they are able to take care of
themfetvea without the. aid or protection
of any let of men, paid by them, to de
fend them from their worft enemies
■yes.
it me here, fir, to advert to the
ins of North-Carolina, (Mri M.
:) in commenting on thefe
refolutions my colleague cert
very complaifant la
Iture of the ftate ; but it
that he gave them a back ha
lit when lie laid they p
luttons without a fail
prelV ? Tb«y wifh the law repealed be
they believe the old fyftem ade
quate. They wish
caufe it produces a ufi'.
This hey the rare frnfibl
the habit cf conde
their publ with! the greateft cco
nd finally they wifh the law re
peal : it is an ufelefs
f'aov ihey have
'rate of the
union ! offices con
p . fonts may be ap
th in. I perfectly
I will now,
tome
) He fays, th I
alway Courts.' It is true
that in the hate we reprefent, they n iffed
-ereniliiM:; feveral cotti ta ; twice tlie judges
were certainly not to blame ; under no
fyfteqi would there have been a court at
times ;' it is fufficient that my col
league knows the fafts. At another time
when a court was miffed, I an confident
there might have been one ; I will not
ftate the fa£t on which this opinion i;
formed, b might implicate the
conduct of one, who has not a right to
anfwer on this floor; buc the fac\ is
: lei's known to him.—lt is Worthy
of remark that after all thefe failures,
there Ihould fcarcely be any t
-the court,:—Again, he fays, c
item, the judges could not ric
circuit, and this circumftance del
tit for the (ration from accepting
pointinents on the bench. This is the
firft time I ever heard men of tal
refufing thefe offices, or that the c
went a heggihg ; on the contrary, I I
..n who pi
practice in the ftate we reprefent.
left th a feat on the fe
bench under the old I'yltem.' ,Hi
a due regard to the dig;:
Uiced the former C
w now propofed to be repealed.
•> ; ity ? Sir,' the fi
■d the judges of the fupi
the circuit court in
it. an indignity for
judges to be iceu by Milgar eyes, c
my i
ing the judges a good falary arid
little to do, for this i* now th
But it appears to me,'that true dignity
conCfts in giving only at,
penfation for fervices actually peril
of the lie
court come to this place twice a year,
have but little to do, and no doui
we!! fatisfied.
My colieagtift next ol
fyflem of the bill lefjion
an additional expence of about 40,000
dollars, and that this was a mere dv
toe balance, and fo it may feem to thole
who only look at out iatioh laws
where we deal in millions ; but, fir, per
mit are to refer him to our ftate foi
nomy, and he will there find, that the
whole expence of the government does
riot amount to forty thou land doll
year. It is an inumni'e ium confj
alene, and if the general g
would confider it as fuch, great fa vine's
it be made, much greater than will
be.—Again, pal's this bill and you make
the judges the humble tools of executive
patronage ; here he and the refblutions
of the Hate are at variance.- I
difcover how the palling this Saw fhall
make the judges more or lefs depei
on toe executive. They will be c:
in the fame fituatiou th y wi
the aft of laft fcfJion paffed. The ju
he fays, ought to be independent, to pie
vent revolutions; that it is their inner*
ent right to prevent revolutions—Sir,
it feemS to me, that in talking about re
volutions, ycu could fcarcely hear of a
weaker inftrument than the judiciary ;
how could they, if they were ever fo in
dependent, With liiis inherent i
vent a revolution if the pi re de
termined for it ? What would the ju
be to an army I Or what are cafes to bay
onets ? In'fucl the judges could no more
prevent a revo ?re the people
l ">r it, than any other men.
alfo laid, t rent right
of the jud
tionality of laws. I his cueftion I
not fufticiently
thing ' o dif
cufa it at this time ; it the ju
this power it is
and nothing tha
My colleague has car:
the I .
could
I am
care only for American afl
he told vi ■
lonarch f
another to a however
pAin
flioul :
i ffer
with n rmly
believe lov • .:s well as
auy.mai
W<* have h< jud
pen-
; I will i l fh w that
they love p : ■ me.
Soon after the < the fede
ral courts, they rffued a v i '''" g
a profefjional man, I fh 11
to yive its name, to court
of North-Carolina,.di Cafe then
ding befori art-, to be
in into th fe The
date judges refufed to ium»
mons, and laid finga
before the legiflatute, who approved
v," il asli
iiouflv ; and t ! was
diforgan'zing".
fo much ! aid about the
. 1 Will
common
loft-offices and
ad as
much
.it is c iflo
enced i iu
lals ; and . iture never in
tended nor wifiied that the recounnen
the reprefentatjves, fhould be
binding on them at all even's ; and if I
■ d the bill to be unconftitutii
'd not vote for it, 1.1
en win pardon me
for pur full . and
it. I hope no Ran will
afcribe to mc a difpofition to
anarchy in my native country ; rdtle
poor myfelf, 1 I
as any one on this floor, efer
u of gocd order, and good go
vernment.
If- ! 'mart
J aid) -will the
was
improper? I have no hcfitation tc
that it was done at an improper tiuie,
and in fhewing that it was, I heme I
(hall be pardoned for tray > to
pics that have do with
the merits of the prefent >■■
, and by what .1 fay it is,
bat I wish Congrefsi
fhnild put their hands upon it. It
. that (dmgrels
toeftablifh poft-offiet g for
the general and equal d n of
information through the I
and is it not known, tl was
lon that ful : imp
tion of the
was only on
the fea coaft ;
the ii!
ti.in with si
had tin v any Mowlc
in r. But
on the tpot, by
i
Th