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The national intelligencer and Washington advertiser. [volume] (Washington City [D.C.]) 1800-1810, February 10, 1809, Image 2

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ibeir country's good '"■ J tkc tic; of
'findred, property and every thing
dear to man. as fJhey have ? I pi c-
N'tT.f; not; and whilst they exclaim
tnst irritation, why do they not ;
he course which they rccom-
I io us, towards their political :
opponents, men »ho have as strong
Claims to courage «;r to patriotism as
themselves? What have we
told by gentlemen on the opposition
sick: of ibe House* who hnvte'Charg
ed you SO repe i"-dly with a deskc to
involve the nation in a war with Great
Britain ? Why, sir, that yen could
not be driven into a war. Was it to
have been expected, th \ after all the
irritation and all the sensibility pro
duced in certain sections of the union
by h charge tli.at you were endeavor
ing to plunge the people into war
Great Britain, fhal a declaration
of this kind would be made? I eon-
F<ss I wars not prepared for it Is the
House disposed to verify the predic
tion of the gentleman from Messa
< husetts, that we " cannot be kicked
into a war with Great Britain," or
with .-.ny other nation This is assign
ing the nation a low station in the
ranks of honor, they are put out of
them altogether. For Ido from my
soul believe that ihe course proposed
in the resolution, if adopted, will
terminate in a settlement of our dif
ferences with Great Britain ; and in
the present course of the world,
whe« we have received from France
so little justice and liberality, we are
only restrained from renewing inter
course with Great Britain, because a
renewal under present circumstances
•would not comport with our honor,
certainly not with our interest. If
slic would cm.!? us to renew our in
tercourse with her on terms which
would not disgrace an independent
nation, I would certainly renew in
tercourse with her ; but I cannot do it
with S nation which aiTects to treat us
as one of her acknowledged colonies.
The g- ntleman frotn Connecticut
(Mr. Pitkin j -'ho spoke or. this sub
ject a few days ago, furnished, 1
think, one of tbe strongest reasons
why we should not for a moment ad
mit the plea of retaliation in justifica
tion of the British orders. H. told
you, ■ v. posing the Emperor of Chi
na were to issue a decree dci
the British islands in a state ol
kado, it would be a mere
Tbe argument te correct.
in return, .• a menace i ■
fectfy empty, so merely brttlu
men (\o use m expression of a n itle
man from Maryland, Mr. Key) would
Justify so ruinou. a retaliation as that
adopted by Great Britain. It has been
said that the French decree of Berlin
not of more effect than a similar
decree of the Emperor of China
Would be. If this be the tact, and I
do not con'est it, hou is it possible
that the British government could
justify the right for that reason to
take a measure so ruinous to this
country. Th« gentleman went on
to quote the opinion of the Secretary
•of kkate and others, to
position in relation '. ;.'... harmless-j
nessof the French decree is correct, j
I admit it, sii ; ] i\ furnishes the 1
strongest possible reason why the j
claim of Great Britain should not be \
lie seed in ; and proves to my.
mind that the pretence of the nec.es- i
. an insincere j
and an:in profession intended tb gull I
o.vn injustf
The gentle, Connecticut J
\\lr. Pitkin) gave *ts aroosi glowing 1
.iption of the power of France ; '
us that ail tic world was proe
trate at h.r lei t, ~, was a .
to be over-run by her arms.
ifl ai-i not much mistaken in ihe
view whichl base taken on the sub
ject, Prance is weaker now than she
was before to* Spanisl don ;
nor, if she succeeds in the eofvquesi
of Spain, do 1 kalievo th d she will
be more powerful, k. • i er .
rncrly not only actually commanded
that government but 'tiie
colonies. The French have not re
ceived from the Spanish colonu
South America less than from twe tv
to thirty million of dollar- emnit; !ly.
As for Portugal, she was under tire
necessity of purchasing Iter ..quali
ty at th-* price of sis millions of dol
lars annually. France has lost notonly
that, iv.it the For tuguese colonies al
so ; and if we judge of the impor
lar.i c of these colonies by the mea
sures pursued in England to get
their commerce, we should be induc
ed .o suppose that the resources ot
Fiance arc seriousiy impaired by
logins them. But granting all the
gentleman's premises, what dots his
argument amount to ? Is there any
man who doubts the. disposition of
France to use all the influence in her
power over us ? Is there any doubt
that if we were neat France we should
be attempted to be reduced under
her domi: ion ? There can be no doubt
of it We have seen such a _y_ em
pursued m her neighbors, thai no
man cae. doubt it. Is not the happi
ness of 'his people sufficient to tempi
this Conqueror in the fulness of hi
po'ver to blot from the history
'if the world an example which
' the most odious co- "
ml silUHtiou and past
history of France ? . There Can be J
no doubt that every European go- ;
vemment must feel a hostility to
this government. It is a standing i
j reproach lo their policy, and a dan
gerous example to their people ; tho' \
■ 1 fear, sir, that scarcely one-tenth ,
; of ihe population of the e-ctensive
i continent of Europe know that such
i a continent as this exists. Yet the
existence of this government operates
to produce jealously Sc alarm in those
i governments. Admit, 1 repeat, that
nee is so powerful, are ye in any
I danger from France ? I believe not.
> How could she operate on you ?
What lifts become of her West-India
• islands ? Has she been able to pre
i serve even tho"e from the hands of
her pneirty. She has not secured
• 11. ni—and can it be believed that
i she could transport a force here ?
[ beg gentlemen to put this question
to themselves: Is it possible to be*,
. liev'c that if there was any effort
made in France to attack us, we
' should not with one heart and hand
unite against her ? If there he a gen
tleman who feeds a doubt, hisn
must be under the dominion of a
' picioti I do not envy, and which I !
should be worry io feel for any portion
of tlie people of my country : If this
country should be engaged in acoti
test with France at tbis lime, what
would be the consequence of our re
lative situation! Every one knows
that our population •is increasing so
rapidly as will soon give us a force
sufficient to resist any effort, even the
combined efforts of all Europe.
(Mr. Harwell's Speech to be con
cluded, and debate continued.)
Wf.hxesda y, I kb. 8.
COUNTING THE VOTES FOR PJI_V
SIDEKT St Y. PRESIDENT.
Mr. Vie/tolas offered tbe following
order .-
Ordered, That r message be sent
to the Senate to inform them (hat
this House is now ready to attend
them in opening the certificates and'
counting the votes of President and
V. President of the U. S. in pursu- ; ,
ance of the resolution Of the two j i
Houses of Congress of tbe ""lb inst. j
and that the Clerk ofthe House do go i
with the said message.
Mr. Randolph said it had some- !
times been the case, be did not say it j
had been the practice, that this > i
House had mat the other branch Of
the legislature in their chamber for
the purpose of counting the votes ; in i
which cases very properly i deed, (
this House bcinc; in the Chamber of i
the Senate, the President of that bo j
cl v had taken the chair. Mr. 11. said
be now understood that it wis pro- i
posed, without any vote of this Ik
for the purpose, that the 1 'resident
of the Senate was to take the chair
of this House—thai the Speaker was ;
!■. le ive Hie chair to make way for the
,ol another body. To this j,
: he, foil ore, could never consent. II ]
such a pro- (
ceeding worn.. c very matcri- i
j a iy from the dignity if not from the i
' rights of this body. { can never con- -
Mr. Spea) ther per- j
j sin than yourself or the chairmain of i
j the committee of I -■ House
I should take the thai,, except by aj.
j vote of the House. 1 le
that, this matter nifty be -, 'ci! tu
stood. I conceive it to be a respet I
} which we ov/e to en. tves and to [
the people whose immediate repre
sentatives we are-, never to suffer,by ' '
a sort of presscrip'tive right, the pii- j
vihgesof this House to be in any j
diminished, or its dignity to fade !
before that of any other atasmb'y of
men whatever.
Mr. Aii holas said he was ns utl- j ■
willing as any other gentleman to sur- ! j
render the privileges of the !k
When assembled as the House o!
Hepresentatives he agreed thm none !
but the Speaker should take the • \
chair ; but on the occasion of count- i
ing out the votes he did not consider
tl.c House of Representatives to be
formed as a distinct body. In meet-it
ing on this occasion, be said) it al- l (
ways had been usual since the cstab- I «
lisriment of the government for the
Vice-President of the U. S. or the i.i
President pro tempore of the Senate j ,
to take the chair. There was also ]
a propriety in this course, because by (
the constitution me Vice-President is i
to open the votes. For twenty years
the practice bad been that the. Fresi- i
dent ofthe Senate presided in joint i
meeting.
Mr. J. G. Jackson spoke a few (
words on the same side as Mr. Ni
cholas; and Mr. Lyon replied to
him.
i
Mr. Nicholas ttooved in order to do
away any difficulty in this case, that (
when the members of the Senate
were introduced, the Speaker should ,
relinquish the chair to the President .
of the Senate.
i
Mr. Davenport supported this mo- .
tion. He had no doubt of the propyl
•y of the President ol the Senate ,
presiding at a joint meeting, n
especi dly, us lie was .he person tk-sig- ,
noted by {he constitution for counting ,
out r.hr. vo»cs.
I Mr. Randolph said that if this
' course were taken, the Senate ought
to be notified of this act of courtesy
on the part of the House ; if not, it
' might appear that the President of
\ the Senate took ihe chair as a matter
;of right. He said he knew that lo j
many persons mattersof this sort ap
peared to be of minute importance;
but in every thing touching the pri
vileges of this House as it regarded
the claims of the other co-ordinate
branches of the government, he would
stickle for the ninth part of a hair,
ft was well known that in England
the privileges of the Commons had
Ween gained inch by inch from the t
kings and nobles by a steady per- j
severance ; and that man must i
have very little knowledge of man
kind indeed who was not persuadedi
that those privileges might be lost i
as they were gained', hy gradual and \
imperceptible encroachment on the
one hand, and tacit yielding on the
other. This was hot a matter oft
great consequence in itself; but pow- j
er always power. It was like
money, he said ; ' any man could |
make money who had money. So |
any man or body of men, who had I
power cuild extend it. I have no ob- j
jeetien (said Mr. R ) —very far from I
• t—to the constitutional exercise of J
the powers and privileges ofthe Se
nate. Let their President count the i
voter;, sir ; there is a very good
chair for him m which the Clerk
now sits. But on what principle is
he to come into the House with a
consciousness that he has a right to
throw you out of the chai'f, air, and
take possession of it ? I have no idea
of suffering a mm to come through |
those folding doors with such a sen
timent. If he cone; into this House
he comes from courtesy ; and cannot
! assume v in chair, Mr. Speaker, as a
•. matter o|'right; but. as a favor. And ,
Jif the President of the Senate takes!
! possesion of your cbair as a favor, it !
| ough» to be announced to the Senate j
Jas such; for tlie mere vote on our 1
| side amounts tb nothing, provided j
! that he and 'he body over whom he |
! presides come intotMs House under j
i the knowledge (without an intimation j
[from us; tint you are to leave your |
j chair and he is lo take possession j
| of it.
Mr. Smilie observed that there was !
jno fear of the privileges of this body j
i being encro tched upon by any other ; j
j for there was a written constitution
j prescribing the powers of each body ; J
) and at the same lime that it was pro- j
! per to be careful of their own rights, j
Ihe said, the House should be en.
i not to infringe on the rights of the, !
I other body. In respect to this ques- j
lion there w«S a case in point. In one ;
instance, whilst Congress sat at Phir
i ladelphi.., the Senate had come into '
j the Reprcseniativcs'chambefto c«unt
| out the votes, ynd the President of J
the .Senate had itafcen the chair as a
I matter of right. We (said Mr. S.)
I are sitii.ig as a convention of the two
t Houses, Ibr a special purpose, viz. to
[count oul the /ous. Who te pro-j
j perly the presiding officer in this
| case ? Un.MJcst.ion.ib'y the officer di- j
reeled by the constitution-to open tbe i
i voie.s. And 1 consider the -Speaker
jot the House, on this occasion, as act- j
thg in the ' one capacity as any other
member of the House.
After some further observations on
| thfc subject, f''o n iliasters,
Lyon, iuu\ i/v.o;/, the motion of Mr.
; Nicholas was agreed t>, A; c ! * 98.
\fr. Randolph moved that the
Senate be acquainted by message of
this arrangement—\e;',:cd to, Ayes
i 73.
1 "> he i esotnli mi ft st Offered by Mr.
i Nicholas was then igi'eed to.
On the suggestion of Mr, Fan
■ Dykeh was agrceH that ihe members
j should re- ■ Senate standing
' a id 'incovered.
The time i " - pojunting the .votes
I havingarrived, the members of the
> Senate, | by their Sergeant
!at Arms, entered the Represcnta
, , M - , - . MtLLEDGK, the
- tempore, took the
, Speaker's chair, and the members
I took their seats on the right hand
• ofthe chair. The, tellers were rang
jcd in front, and 'he Clerks of each
House on the right and left of the
| tellers. Tho President oi" the Senate
i opened the >ral returns, one co
py of which was handed to the teller
ofthe Senate (M ''. Smith) who
read it; the tellers of the House,
Messrs. Mchouti md V,tn Dyke, com
paring the returns handed
to them.
When this business, which occupi
ed about to boms, W*_ concluded,
the Tellers handed (heir report to the
President of tho Convention ; who
was proceeding Id read it,
When Mr. HiHiiousc observed that
the returns from one of the states
appeared to be defect I ye>
the governor's certificate not being
attached to it. He thought that this
be as proper a time to notice it
as any.
Nothing farther being said on the
subject, however, the President of
the Senate read the following state
ment of the votes, as reported hvthe
tellers :
r ires'v. v. ff.es't.
Vf-JDI £ !*• t> w V
9ils i • 9 * ° 5» r*
IN. Hampshire \ Oj t oj 0 7 0 0 0
\t,- -,cb<isctts 0.19; OJ 019 0 o 0
I hndf » bunt 0 4 01 0 4 0 0 0
Connecticut 0 9| ol 0 9 0 0 0
Veimont 6 0' 0\ 0 0 6 0 0
New York 13 0 G 13 0 0 3 3
New Jersey 8, if 0 8 0 00 0
Pennsylvania 20| 0, 0 20 0 0 0 o
Delaware 0 3 0 o a o 0 0
Mnrvlsnd 9| 2 0 9 2 0 0 0
Virginia 241 o,' 0 24 0 0 0 0
North Carolina 11 3| 0 11 3 0 0 0
I South Carolina 10 0,0 ]0 CQ 0 0
Georgia 6 0 0 6 «- 00 0
Tennessee 5 Oj o] 5 0 0 0 0
Kentucky* 7 0 0? 7 0 0 0 0
i Ohio 3 0(1 C 0 3,0 0
! — -"-
■ 12247 61113 47 9 3 3
* One of the votes of Kentucky lost from the '
non-attendance of one ofthe Electors..
; Recapitulation of the votes of the Elec
tors for President if the U. States.
James Madison 133 votes.
Charles Cotesvrorth Paickney 47
George Clinton fi
Fur Vice President ofthe United States.
George Clinton 113
Unfits Kini'' 47
John l.aii'.;don 9
Janus Mtdison 3
James Monroe 3
The President of the Senate, pur
suant lo the joint resolution ofthe t\Vo
Houses of the 7th inst. then enounc
ed the state of the votes to both Hou
ses of Congress, and declared "That
James Madison was duly elected Pro- ;
sidentof the United States for four
years, lo commence on the fourth day
of March nex ; ; and that fleorge
Clinton was "duty elected Vice Presi
dent of the United States, for the like
term of four years to Commence
on tho said fourth i.\,\y of March
next.
The members of the Senate then
! retired in the same order in which
they entered.
After i lie conclusion of the bu
siness ofthe joint meeting the Speak
\cr resumed the chair, and the House
j cane to order.
Mr. ./. G. Jackson offered a reso
[ ti. n lor a total non-intercourse br
; tween this countiy and Great Britain
j and France, and for excluding from
j our waters all armed vessels; with
! a view lo have it referred to the
! committee on Mr. Nicholas's rcso
j lulion. *,
The Speaker having declared the
j motion for commitment to be in order,
! Air. Randolph appealed from the de
j cislon, on the ground that a few
, ago the House had decided that
j a resolution coud not be consi
| dered when the precise subject of
I the resolution was already before a
I com rait le of the whole; and thai the
j decision now made was variant from
j the former decision of the Speaker.
After some observation from vari
j Ous gentlemen on the point of order,
j Mr. Jackson withdrew his motion-—
j Adjourned.
TnunsDAY, Feb. 3.
ELECTORAL VOTES.
Mr. Macon moved to amend
j the journal of yesterday's proceed*
| logs, by inserting the letter of Mr.
J Walton, the elector from the state of
I Kentucky, who did not attend to
give his vole, stating the reason
thereof. He stated his object to be
to state on the journal the reason
why one vote was deficient from thf
state of Lventucky, that it might
serve a« a precedent on similar occa
sions. For, if hereafter, in conse
quence of tho sickness or inability to
attend of any one ox mo«-e electors,
there should be a tie betwixt any two
candidates for the Presidency, it'
would be triad', a matter of question
whether their votes, although unable '
to attend at the lime, ought not to be
counted.
Some discussion took place on this j
point, it being contended by b
gentlemen, that the House had no;
concern with 'he causes why any ;
vote was no! received, but merely to
count those which came to hand. |
And ihalifit wns intended to fix a I
precedent to govern future proceed-:
ings on this subject, it ought to be I
done with great deliberation.
Mr. Macon's motion was negativ- I
ed, Ayes 20.
NOtf.mTERCOtrRST-.
Mr. Taylor said it would be recol
lected thai in the course ofthe public
business of ibis session, a resolution
1 reported by a committee on our fo
reign relatiqris arising oui of a mo ion
of a member from N. Carolina, fur
the purpose of interdicting commer
cial intercourse with such bellige
rents as had in fore* decrees or edicts
against the lawful commerce ol ihe
U. S. had been agreed to and refer
red lo the same committee, who had
reported a bill for non-intercourse.
This bill in fact however comprized
but one half of the whole subject em
b.-aced by the words " non inter
course." The bill as reported to
this House provided for the nonim
portation of the goods, wares and
merchandize, the growth and manu
facture of these particular countries.
That (said he) may be readily ac
counted for from the circumstance
that tire House was then actually en
•ng a law for the en?
• of the embargo,'the coin-
I mif.ee therefore haviflu only in view
tlie other part of the question, so as to
complete a non-intercourse. After
that bill was reported, a geutlerr.au
from Tennessee (Mr. Rhea) in order
that the whole might be incorporated
into one, offered a resolution for that
purpose. I did think it unnecessary at
that time ; but as the course of bu
siness seems to look towards a repeal
of the embargo, in order that tho
whole subject of non-intercourse may
be incorporated in the bill before the
House, I move that the committee of
the whole he discharged from the con
sideration ol the bill, and that it may
be referred to a committee, in order
that it may be made in fact what the
title imports it to be, completely a
a bill for non-intercourse between
this country and those nations having
in fo' - ce decrees affecting our neutral
rights.
Ihe committee of the whole was
discharged from the further consids
raiion of the bill, Ayes Ti.
A motion having been made that
this bill be referred to the commitee
of the whole on Mr Nicholas's reso
lution* was negatived, 56 to 43.
It was then moved to refer the bill to the
committee who reported it, and carried,
61 to 41
Much desult try debate took place on
these motions, In which Messrs. yloan, D.
! R. Williams, -Tpham, Macon, Dana, Eppes,
; Taylor, Nicholas, Van Hume and S;
partook.
Mr. W. Alston moved that the rommit
tee which now h.is under consideration
, the resolutions offered by Messrs. Nicho*
las, Bacon and Dwell be discharged from
the forther consideration of them, ai ct
that they be referred to the same commit
.v. bom tbe non-intercourse bill was
just referred.
Mr. Dawson seconded the motion,
Messrs. Bmilie, Love, Holland, and ::. a,
supported it, and Messrs. Dana, Rand
;-, Gardenter and Ma< on n
'l' |uestion was taken on discharging
the co , litti i from tlie further considera
tion ol them vi half bast 5 o'clock by Yea*
and Nrfys as follows :—
VKAS—-Messrs. L. J. Alston, W. Alston,
Bard, Bibb, Rhickledg'e.Blount.Boyd, Boyle,
Bui-well, Butler, Calhoun, Clay, Cfopton',
CuttS, Da>v'»bn, Dcane, Desha, Durell,
Eppes, Findl y, r*isk, Franklin, Glurfdson,
Good WYn, Green, Heistcr; Holland, Holmes,
Howard, Humphreys, J, G.Jackson, John*,
son, Junes, Kenan, Kirkpatrick, Lanjl -t,
Love, Mai'ion,. M'Creery, I). Montgomery.
J Montgomery, N. R. Moore, T. Moore,
Jer. Morrow, John Morrow, N.-wbold, Vcw
ton, Nicholas, Porter. Pngh, Kea, (Pen )
Rhea, (I'm.) J. Richards, M. Richards,
Bay, Seaver, Shaw, Smelt,SmiHe, J, Smith,
Verplanck, Wharton, \YhitehilL Wiibour,
A.W-lson—6s.
(NT-AYS—Messrs. Bacon, Bassett, BlaJte.
Champion, Chil ender, Cook, Curpc]
Dana, Davenport,' Ktnot, Ely, Gardenier,
Gardner, Garrett, Gray, Harris, Hoge 11b
ley, M. S. Jacks:.'), Jenkins, Kelly, LewYs,
Livermore, Lloyd, Lyftn, Maeon.Ma
Milnor, Most ley,Mumford, rid-in, Quincy,
l.'andoph, Riker, Rowan, Russell, s| -•.->.),
J. K. Smith, S. Smith, Stanford,
Stor.r, Bturgt s, Swart, Tagg-it, rail,
madg-e, T 13 lor, Th impson iam;
Van Allen, Van C irtbuidt, VanrHoriie, Van
Rensselaer, D R Williams—-55.
.Mr. W. Alston then moved to co- 1
1! - resolutions to the committee to v
tb bill on tbe subject of non-interc
wa> referred.
This motion was opposed by Mesi _
Randolph, Lyon, v..n Home, Bacon
denier, Qnincy and Milnol
od by Messrs. Taylor, VV. '
hind.
The motion was carrcd by Yeas and X lys,
55 to _6.
Mr. Van Alkh moved to refer to the
same committee areseliitionoffered bj Mr.
Mi "d'.u-d at tbe commencement t.f* the
session for a pi Pti-l 'epcal of die embargo;
but the House adjourned before a qm
could be takca
Tbe etTi ft of tb" 1 ol; s of Ibis day, 19 to
refer to the committee on our foreign ■ ■' i
tion, composed of Messrs. G. W. Camp
bell, Nicholas, Bacon, Taylor, Fisk, J.
Montgomery, Mumford, Champion arid
Porter, tbe several propositions for die re
pea! or tin- embargo, for arming mer
chant vessels, for non-intercourse, for ex
ng armed vessels from >>.tr waters, &
for declaring the first capture made in vio
lation of the neutral tights of the lb S. to
' be a declaration of war, &c. with%leave t*>
i b\ bill.
The chief argument in favor of this i?ene
v.d referenc. was, that these propositions'-
might be merged in one bill which should
.1 a general lystem, and thus render
less complicated the proceedings oi' the
i House on these resolutions. The'maihar
', » 1..1-. nt| '. •'. t it were, that it would
tix>y aUxhrtt had alrcacl •■ ineon.i_-
■ of the w ii.-.!,', and probably p..
i-i avstem ai length to tiie Ho
Iv. ..dtl net be apnrox. .1, and Hi es produce
I ofthe ses"-
:,t discussion ,
tha •• would encourage . ..don
i now goingon m i , an I
rate cap:-
.it' produce, in tbe certairti y th i
. o would be raised on the 4ih «
Ma< -
FOS SALE,
: A TaacT of LAND, contain
JTx. Eigh ct of
Conimbiit, aboul two ftiU< i'the
! Cap.,"!. The premises are at present.jote
-1 copied 1", ay. . tlalssi Kaj p.-; hm\ in
dining to purchase wi'.) ni.k- application
befor M irch ne . , to Mr. THO*
MAS CLAXTON at the CaphoL
February 10—3t
THIS is to give notice, that the subscri
ber hath obtained from tbe Orphan's
Court of Washington cHy and district of
Columbia, Letters of Administration on
Personal Estate oi'ili.XßY llowi.j, bite of
said eitv deceased. All persons having
claims against said estate, aye here :»y notifi
ed to exhibit the same with the vouchers
thereof to the subscriber on or before the
15th day of August next, they may other.
wise by law be excluded from all benefit of*
said estate. All persons dial are Indebted
to the said ed to corn
forward and settle up their at compti n
wise 1 ghail put the books In an '),' v ;,
Is to net as tiie 1. w Jiri
Givffn uiu

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