Richmond enquirer. [volume], December 17, 1829, Image 2

About Richmond enquirer. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1815-1867

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permanency of our instiluti >n», to recommend them to
the respect and deference of the present generation, to
the love and veneration ol |>o<>ierity? "To recall men
to original maxi m is generally recalling them to vir
tue;”—this is tho language of a di»tingm b-d p-litiral
writer; and is the language <f trv.th, which doc* mat
require the support <>t authori’y—The advoc»»e« fur I
liberty, »h- friend* of fw d governineiit In all time,
ha»e eudeattteed *o iarglolc r sp-ci »•>.1 reverence
for prinrlple*. sn ! have thought i. wi*e to l> dd tl|) high ;
standards ol exc-ll-nc • fir hi* emu! <ti >u o' the people j
Plain’s republic w >• n t written wiili tlu- v on hope
that its petfection wnuH be rehs d; but with a view
to inspire a tore of excellence, and creala f mutation.
Cicero’s W'lik Dr Ur$>ufil!ru was wii;ten lor the pur- j
peso ol recal i-"r •! e K mian prop’s to 'lie fund truetilal
principles ol tfi i government, ami of recoin mending
them to their aff cti m* i»r> I their reverence—Hut it
catne ton la’e to reform 'lie deg-neraoY ol theag-.or
to preserv* the freedom or the gh rv of Koine. The
celebrated E Imuntl IJ.irke, who dreaded the ron'agiou
of Fr licit principles, ami the I* vet.tug hand ol French
equality quite as much a« cov t» »>d republican here
can do, when with so much eloquence ami a'ili'v and
prophetic talent, he traced the cause* of the French
Revolution, deplored its sanguinary excesses, pointed
out its erro1 *, and indicated ii* d auger oil* tendencies,
when he end'avowed *o lay the evil spirit of reform
which wa* ri*ing in 1- lglaud, ami to warn his coun
try-men again*! tl»o ruinous cxatnnl • which they
seemed disposcrl to imitate,—what did he appeal to, a*
most dear to K igUshinen?—he appealed to “ the ward
and spirit ol that immortal law,” the English declara
tion of rigb*. It i* to the won! and «|>irit of our decla
ration o| rights, to ill d law, width we should desire to i
make immortal, that in my humble judgment we should
at all times appeal, not only to guide us against the dan
ger of heedless r-fo.'tn, but t. guard us in making
wholesome amendment*.
We have been taught,Mr. Chairman, that the educa
tion of a people should always be conducted with ref
erence to the principles of their government, in order
that sentiments of loyally may be sown in their early
alfjctioys.—The sumo wisdom instruct* u* to ripiuld
the subordinate law*, in conformity lit the fundamen
tal law of the country. Il is in the spirit of these les
sons, that having adopted tho republican form of gov
ernment, we have constantly inculcated the love of lib
erty, of virtue, of ritriple, unostentatious manners, and
that, to prev, i.t an injurious inequality in the tortunes
and comh'ions of men, the laws h >ve been passed
which aholuh entails, and the • rights of primogeniture.
—The act abolishing ontails. w hich is coeval with
our government, and that prescribing the la«v of de
tent which v»ry quickly succeeded (lie war of the
revolution, were not founded on any supposed injtts
tice or intrinsic impropriety, in limiting th- estate ot
the parent to Ids remotest descendants, or making the
first horn son, the exclusive heir, but were founded
on reason- purely political; reasons, which induced our
ancestors "to believe, that however wi*e, however ne
cessary in Engbuid, for ilia preservation of their gov
ernment it might he, to preserve family distinction*
and perpetuate family wealth.such distinctions and such
wealth were unsuited to a republican government, and
that (tie laws fur promoting them, would be, here, not
less impracticable than unwise.
It is submitted to tl*i« committee whether all these
considerations do not recommend to their mo«t re
spectlul attention, the principl-s which lie at the foun
dation ol our government.—If they think so, it is Imped
they will not do-in the time misspent, which shall ho
employed in further consideration of the hill of rights,
where these principles are declared.—In performing
this duly, I shall not follow the example of the judge
w ho condemned Za iig to death, upon the evidence ol
tiie torn fragments of his manuscript;—I shall not sun
der the different jnrts of the same instrument, the text
from the con einpotaneous conimen'ary, the declaration
ol right.*, (rom the constitu'ion based upon it a', the
sanis tim*. and hy the same hand*
[•Mr. Johnson's Speech tube Continued ]
Friday, I) c. 11
DEBATE ON’ THE JU DiCI A R Y —fContinued ]
Mr Tazewii.l rosi in reply.—The gsntleman
from Ch"«trrfield, raid he, u-ge* as an objection that
the jurisdiction of that Court ol Appeal* is merely ap
poll t-, and g;ve this a* a rea-on why he will not vot •
to change the name of the Cour’. fits the gen
tleman adver ed to the -I h line of the resolution, which
declare* that “ the jurisdiction of these tribunals shall
bj regulated hy law?” If the Logi-lature is to regu
late the jurisdict.on of all the courts, end this among
rC»«t l'*|/»Onwso n f tlx*» r» I Via Ilia li'-an
; . w*' V but it* jurisdiction ^5
** *lttT,‘ hy law in any way the L-gisl,ture shall di
r cf. I ,Jo no’ know that it i* so d. sirahle, that its in
ris.hct.on shall be appellate on/y The distinction be
ween original and apprlla'e jarlsdictmn is not perfect
lv clear: it run. Into apices Juris-1 know of „„ ,rg>..
mrnt to show that we ought to exclude all jurisdiction.
o, ter than appellat-1 think there are many case.
where .1 ought to be original al o. |, thcr-fore, an
prebend tlteie is no force in tho objection of the gen
tb rnan fiom Chesterfield.
The gentleman from Richmond Ml.- u«, that he i
unwilling to adopt the chang-of denomination propo-eil
by n.y amendment—first, becau e it nnv cans,- the
Constitution of Virginia to read tvtidnn verbis, as (bp
. •n'lftii'ino of the United S’a’ns does: rr>l,.(j
t'l ion ol Virginia is older, in its dst-, than the Federal
( ons’i’Htb n, ami is more r-rtiin in it« infcpre'a'ion —
It will he .eon by a rrpcti'lon of the words, t|,M tl, .
terms of the Federal Constitution ar-net rep-ate I —
t iev ar* rhang-d: but if they were identically the
h :me, what interpretation has hren put on this Consti
totioii, which shrill! Induce us to pr f.-r i’? IVIw! .lid
the ronsti’ti’iou dot Appoint Judg * of the Court of
Appeal-. No—.fudges ol other Courts were made Jud
ge* of the Court ol Appeals un'il when the Dis
trict Court sys’e.n was adopted. When t'.at system
w.s ad-mved, the L-gHatire bought lb-re mut !».• a
lourtof Appeals, and they (|.en erected a Di-trict
tmirt with that oims, ami so it has remained ever
smce.-So far the Constitution of Virginia has had no
settled decision which b»ar« upm the subject Th
Court of Aprt-'ls was composed ot the Judge, o'
three other Court*, and a =ub.eo.!e„t Legislature p o
nuur.ced it to he ., Constitutional Ceur'. B„t no such
uiihcinty has ever occurred respecting the Con-titu' ou
of the Uni’cd Sta'e*. I am told Here m*v be dill >
ent constr.Ktinn. of that Constifuti n. I rare no! I, w
inane different construe (ions may be p,,f „ ,1M it hereof.
Ur. It the fonven'ion adopt it-language now, it adopt*
it a* now eon*trn •.<: and alter that. I do no- care if ,h‘ev
shall change th- conduction fifty tim«*. lam lor
a!opting the w> dt as they are now understood: and i
was lor that reason that I moved the am nliiiml. |
woubl take tho wodi “a Snpr me Cunt,’ on l-r the
ccn-tructloa held hy every D pjrtment of the F.-d-ral
Government—But th - “ Supremo Court” is a Con-titii
tion.il Court, and its Judges beyond the rea.-h of Con
gress itself. It \v<- adopt the term tin Jer (I.L co s’ruc
tion, we adopt the construction if c!f; and thu ill
Court of Appeals becomes consecrat ’d as much as the
Supreme Court of the Unit d States, And with respect
to the Inferior Courts, change but on • word, and you.
< onstitu' on will be precisely the same, on this s„|,j„ct
as the Con-titti’ion of the United S'.ites. The con
. . . , .j - ..vinn-. mny mango and
alioh.h them at j»le i«ure; and the coiijfruc'ion has bscii
acquiesced ii to the present time. By adopting the
»ama nor is with (he Federal Constitution a- to ho h the
Superior and Inferior Court*, all difficulty will b«
avoided for a»l time toeome. Thi* was my sole reason
lor wishing to have the amendment ad .pted.
But. it aren a that, because ot this, I am supposed to he
opposed to the independence ol tlie Judiciary. Sir if
I know iny*elf, tlieie is no member of this Convention
more sincerely attached to that independence than 1
a n. Bui f have no idea of making the Judiciary inde
pendent ol the law. I want a constitutional tribunal
winch the Legislature cannot abolish; ami you get that
when yon get a Supreme Court: When ilia said that
every judgment ol your Judicial Department shall, II
required, lie pasn d under the revi.jer, of this tribunal
you have got all that ought to be desired. If you go
beyond this nib, where are you to slop? If every 0fli
err of every Court is not to be declared constitutional
at what point are you to stop? Crea « fonilll rtll|C,j
shall he as distinct and Independent a department ol
vour Government, as the legislative ortho K*-cutivc
You then have your tinee groat Departments, and that
i* enough. The Inferior Court* must he subject m the
legislative control It must he so. It always has been
so in every coufiti y In the world hut Virginia. Tli-n
I wish to know whether it is desirable that the judges
should remain free from this control? The gentleman |,
tor allowing the Legislature to acl on the tribunal it
self; but h« wan's to secure the preservation of the I
judge, Whit Judge? the Judge of what Court? Wi en
you say lha' he retain, *h* c,.parity to rec. ive anolhor
judicial offlee, His saving nothing: h-ram-e he would
have that cap .city jint a, inurh il he was no Judge at
all. It i< only to declare ihat the Judge shall . onfinue
t. rrrrive hin sal in/. But Tor w h i'? I ,r r othing If
this Is n^res«ary to secure the Independence of (he Ju
diciary, why, In the name of Heaven, let it |,e so-Yon
can’t buy that independent® too dear. H ,{ y„„ j, |vt,
tha’, wh«n you and there shall he a Supreme Court —
The C mstitution e»' the United Sta es say* MtTH.
thieg, and It has Worked well: -the lndep*ndenrc ot
th- Fvdcial Judiciary has n d h en Impaired, i0
the duty Which a Judg* la called ii p < r for in, It nr at,
ly ought to Influence the legislature. It always has Tin.
psit*. frou. Chest'rfield >s n'»’’k -n.-.vli'fi Jte *.y«,ih,i tl,„
Cotistiiulion of the L, States, sinks II.*. boat under the
Judge. Three Judges hacams u«» le» ; hut at li.at prs
»i>e pMiod, th« old system ol as ige w.w got up in 17*0,
*nu Uro rfiit ic m 17*ti ; an I 'tic lie I rgi.iiiurr ap*
pointed the three Judge* of the court of Admiralty, to
bo Judges of the (jrtwril Court. They were *o com.
missioned. that liiey might be made Julgesof the
Court of Appeal*. Tliere was no obligation on the Leg
islature to elect thesa particular pe-*on« : but they
were selected, because they had been Judges: ibis
was the over-ruling motive, which prevailed in theia
election. 1 never can agree to introduce into auy Con
stitution, a principle, which virtually derlare.s, that a
slneonre shall he created, tu support a man, without
employment, because he baa been a Judge. I never
will or can agiee to create a band of judicial pension
er*, esll them r*hat you will. He who perforin* a du
ly, should he paid for performing it; and he should not
tie paid. Utiles* he does perform it I never will coi>
•ent to depart lr<un thi* rule, be the consequence* what
they may.
But, how U the independent' of the Judiciary af-'
l. cted, by d -olaiing that th* Ju Ige, wh >»o Court has
been abolished, shall still retain III* ouioe? It is said,
that he “shall perform arty judicial dulie*. which the
Legislature shall assign him ” What now hecnmesof his
independent-!-? You may not sink the boat Irom under
him; but vou may pile up jurisdiction to any extent you
please, till you sink the Judge, boat, and all. Here is a
Judge who re-ides, say in Aocotnac : (one of these
Judges fra poase. not in esse,) and you require him to
fiold a Court in Lie, or Monongalia, two, ’liree, or four
limes a year, (snot (hit sinking at his independence,
as much as if you took away hi« office? You say he shall
kerp (lie office; but, then, you may lay upon lii:n any
amount ol duty you choo*e. You have only to suppose
inulaftitti, in yudr Legislature (and the provisions in
vour resoluitivi go to thi hvoHiieus o. in t'u
Ji'lts and prol-ss to guard against it,) and your
Judge i* jn-t as much at ii* mercy, ae he would have
been in the other c i-e. You have only to suppose your
L-g si* ure wicked,and they can dcatioy any judge-they
please.
A* to the last clause, moved to ho stricken out, by
my friend from Orange, (Mr. Uahdour,) I would
abandon tuy opinions respecting it, if I could b« satis
lied, that when I have got a Supreme Court, I have not
gut an independent Judiciary : but I know that I have
it, lor 1 have seen it in the Federal Constitution, for 41*
ye ir*; 1 wau'oio more, and no better.
Mr. Marshal,!, rejoined:
I trust the great importance of this subj-ct, will be
deemed a sufficient apology lor my again troubling the
Committee. Some ob“ervati >n« have fallen from the
gentleman from Norfolk, which I led it incumbent up
on me to notice. The gentleman baa nid, that It is
sufficient for the Independence of the Judiciary De
partment, (hat the Judges of the Supreme Court ho in
dependent : and that there is no country on earth,
where the independence of the Judges of the other
Courts is secured. I will refer him to the country
with which I am best acquainted—I mean Great Bri
tain. What i« the Supreme Court ol Great Britain? It
i« the House of Lord*. And are not the Judges of the
Court of Common IMeas independent? Do they not
hold their office during good behaviour? Yet these
are Inferior Court*. I do not know so well the condi
tion of other countries in thi* respect : but I believe
the independence of the Courts is preserve ) in France
The independence of all those who try cau*es be
tween man and man, and between a man and his Gov
ernment, can he maintained only by the tenure of their
office. Is not their independence preserved, under the
present system? None can doubt it. Such an idea
was never heard of in Virginia, as to remove a Judge
Irom office. You may impose upon him any duty you
|iha»e: — You may say, that the C .Oit of Appeals shall
sit every day. from the 1st of January to the la*t of
I) •cem'.ier—The Judge ot a County Court may be call
ed on to perform hi* du'y on the tieuch, for a whole
year : Yet he hold* hi* office during good behaviour.
The legislature* can have no motive to impose un
reasonable duties on a Judge :—he may he required to
do all he can do, and lie can do no more. If the Judges
in Commission, are incompetent to th * duty which is to
he performed, the Legislature will create more Judges:
it i* within tho ordinary province ol L«gi*la(ive action.
Their independence i* not impaired, by their being re
quired to do all they can, 'This is their acknowledg
ed duty.
We have heard abmi* sinecures and judicial pension
er*. Sir, the weight of such terms is well known here.
To avoid creating a sinecure, you take away a man’s
duties, when he wish -s them to remain—you take
away the duty of one nun, and give it to another: and
this is a sinecure. What ia this, in substance, hut say
ing, that there is no such thing vs judicial indepen
dence? You may take a Judge’s duties away, and then
discard him. What is this but saving, t .at th-re i-,
and can he, ami ought to he, no such thing ns judi< ial
in lenendenc •? The gentleman say*, lie i* a gr -at frien I
now in ihe Interior t V»VMiy.»}!),* **'' * iend*hip extend*
t > transfer it to (lie Court ol Appeals? ’ rniTmp Wihle
I »r him to answer, but in (ho negative. He would then
have (lie whole criminal jurisdiction of the State, en
trusted to Judge*, removable from olfire by the Legis
lature, at its pleasure. What would then he the con
dition of the Court, should the Legislature prosecute a
man, with an earnest wi-h to convict him? B it more.
Ihe gre it mass ol controversy existing in (lie Com
mnnwca th, must always be decided in the Inferior
Courts. \\ had an ex imple in the Did General Couri.
’’ •lat "cub! be tho consequence of giving original ju
risdiction to an appellate Court? Such a ma«s of causes
accumulated in th it rouil, that the great grandson of
no man then living, would hav- seen (he trial of the
last cans-on the docket. This w.ll be the inevitable
consequence : husine** will accumulate to an extent,
tha' i' will he impossible t0 pass through. The Inferior
Courts will, therefore, try the great mass of cuise*,
and reserve an appeal on questions of law: The gen
ic man would !c*ve all (h--e Judge* unprotected by
the Constitution. He d -cl ires hlm*elf -a trim I to Ju
dicial Ind-pendencs, and give* independence to tho* •
only, who have no criminal jurisdiction. I und -rstand
:iy .I n licial Independence, the independence of all ihe
members of the Jodirial Department,whatever be their
situation. He a-k*. are you to make every petty offi
cer independent? I an-wsr, no : hut i* that the ques
tion? Are your Judges to be likened to every petty
officer? Would he fiken ihe Judges to them?
Wil! (lie gentleman rero'leet, that in orl -r to secure
the administration of justice, Judge* of capacity, and ol
legal knowledge, are indispensable? An.l how i* he to
get them? How arc such men to he drawn off from a
Iw-ialiv* practice? Will any gentleman of the profes
sion, who e prariice will secure him a comfortaM- in
den-nlenre, leave that practice, and come to take an
Inc*?, which may be t-ken Irom him the next day?—
You may invi’e (hem, but they will not come. You
may elect them, but they wilt not accept the appoint
ment. Yon don’t givo salaries that will draw respecta
ble men unl-*» by the certain'y of permanence con
nected with them. But if they may he removed at
pleasure, will any lawyer of di-'incti.m come upon
vonr bench? No Sir I have alwav* thought, from
my earliest youth till now, that the greatest scourge
an ang y heaven ever inflicted upon an ungrateful and
j s lining p-ople, wa* an ignorin', a corrupt, or a de
pendant Judiciary. Will you draw down thi* our-v
upon Virginia? Our ancestors thought so:—we thought
*• till very lately—and / trust the vo'e of this day will
shew that wc think so still
The question was then taken on both tho amend
ment of Mr. Tazewkli. and Mr. Harhoub, and de
cl led in the negative as ive ha re ah eady stated in a
previous report.
.....- —»r
HfCflMOJVn, THURfiDAY, 1) EC UMBER 17.
progress ok rifg \ on vent ion.
It cannot lie many cl lys now, b fore the great ques
tion of (he Basis of Representation will In <1-fill lively
settled—and the Convention will sppmach i's Itonoue
m>nt—Tuesday was rather a day of Debate than of ac
tion— whereas,yesu-r lay was a day of a difT rent <le
scrip'ion—It wa« a day, tor taking question* and re
cording the votes of the members. ^
The Debate turned principally, on Tu*s<hy^i)l It had
done the previous <|iy, on point* of order. Mr. Mer
cer w*» anxious to take the question on Messrs. Gor
don’* and Upshur’s Resolutions combined—The other
«i le insisted upon a divi«ionof the question—Mr. Mer
cer seemed to think, that the combined proposition
eonfd not carry a mijurlty of the Hou*e.—Those v.ht
opposed hi* motion, insisted upon taking the question
separately upon each proposition—and they finally pre
vailed— Mr. Mi-rcer's resolution for permitting the
Ci air to put the question upon the combined reenlu
fi'on* being rejected, by a majority of about 0.—'The
committee then ro-e, in order to report to the House.
Vesterday the Houie proceeded to act upon the a
m*int men's proposed by the committee of the whole.—
A motion to proceed first with the " al^-absorbing
•|U' *(ion O'.(h" Uisjs,” failed-and the It-solutions up
on the nigh', oj Suffrage carne first upon the tapis.—
The llou<e h#J not disposed of If, before th»y adjourn
'd The -yc« aM .-toe* were called five limes, upon
Ike several amendment* : But no very materiel chan- I
ges are a* yet made in the acheme proposed by the |
committee of the whole.—Mr. Wilson's scheme of a
more general suffrage will probably come u;> this morn
ing; and its failure will be lolleweJ by a general sub.
stitute from Mr. Leigh, s'ating in more explicit phrase
the provisions of the amended scheme now before the
House.
Every member was yesterday in his sea?—the whole
98 being registered tour times in the ayes and noes, in
chiding both the old, and the n>*w memb-vs, Mr. .1. Os
borne of the Senate who takes the place <*f Mr. Monroe
(General Taylor declimng.it,) and Mr. James M. Ma
son of tho House of Delegatee, appointed in Mr. Opie’s
place.—Several of the Member s are Invalids; but no
{fpcaovenienco or indisposition detained a single mem
ber from his seat. , -
The spirit which lias presided over the Convention
ter several days, is upon the whole, sufficiently liberal
and concllia'ory.—When tho “ vexed and vexing ques
tion” ot (lie Basis, however, shall be taken up, we may
expect, of course, some shock of opinion, and a little
more ot the acid infused into the Debate.—Uu’,we trust
to the goo-1 sense of tne Convention. They are by this
time sufficiently impressed with the embarrassin*nis to
which we are exposed by a supposed contrariety of in
terests, and the dauger*' of a continued and violent
struggle. What will be the result, time will rapidly
develope. MeannIdle, we iulreat our fellotv-citixvns
at a distance, to keep as cool as possilde upon the sub
ject. They can scarcely have an adequate idea of the
difficulties which are presented on the theatre of action
—ami how hard it is for any man to get exactly what
he wan's; and how hard it will be to satisfy all with thc
tin >1 result.
We observe, for instance, with some pdn, the ex
citement which prevails among our brethren in Win
chester, on first hearing of the adoption of Messrs.
Gordon's and Upshur’s Resolutions. The Winchester
Virginian of the Illh, under the head of *• The Ques
tion settled," expresses no little feeling, rays, '• Thi*
proposition, objectionable in every shape and form,
gives lo tile Ei<t a majority of (i members in (ho Sen
ate, and‘21 in the H. of Delegates! Will the People
of the West, submit to such glaring ami flagrant in
justice?”—l’lia “ Winchester Republican” declares,
that “ Better hail there been no Convention; better
had w,' borne yet a little longer, the evils which we
sulf-rcd under the old Con-titution, than to have them
thus perpetuated upon u* forever. This foul deed was
consummated on Saturday last. A redeeming spirit
exists in the p eople. Will they not indignantly reject
a Constitution, hy which they and their posterity are
d ish ancliised forever!”
One word —It is not certain yet how “the question
will be settled”—It is r.ot so certain that Mr. Upshur’s
resolution will pass along with Mr. Gordon's— or, in
deed, how it wiil ultimately settle down—But this is too
certain—That the difficulties in settling the question
have been and aie very great—ami tile consequences of
not settling it, strike us a< most unpleasant ami unfortu
nate. “Beg of the Convention not to separate without
adopting a Constitution,” (said a worthy citizen to us
yesterday)—If the in'erests of the State do not appeal
to their patriotism, of what effect ran our poor invoca
tion be?—They can judge better of the consequence?
than we. can pretend to do.
Sketch ok the Proceedings of Convention
Tuusdav, Dec 15.
The Convention met at II o’clock, nnd was oneneil
with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Horner of the Homan
Ca'hciiic Church.
Mr. Powell presented th<» following letter of resig
nation, which was read ami laid on (lie table:
Richmond, D.-c. 15th, 1829.
Sir—Circumstances beyond my rontroul, compel me
to resign my seat in the holy over which you premie.
The remaining delegates from the district, will, o1
course, supply the vacancy occa-!v.ned by my resigna
tion Wilh'the strongest feelings, and most ln-art-lcll
desire for the h-sl results from your deliberations for
our beloved Slate, with the kin lest recollections lot
i^nu-ii-lf and ein mpfiiher of ihs Prtnifn.oinn I tM„
faltWiV cin/.pn, II, l, OPJE.
P. 1*. Bah noun, Ksq.
President of the Convention.
M'- Powell said that the colleagues of Mr. Oi»ie
would select a person to fill his place before the. meet
ing ol the Convention to-morrow.
The Chairman informed tli» House (hat he should be
preparecMo r« port the proceedings of the committer
after about an hour’s farther labour in copying: that
when the report was completed, it would astonish any
one to find how few of the subjects, which had occu
pied the debates of the committee, would he reported
upon t» the House: the chief embarrassment arose Ironi
the fact, that the resolutions numbered 1 I ami 15 had
not been passed upon by the committee at all.
(Th-vare as follow:
Resolve I, That the representation in the Senate and
Hou-c ot Delegate* of Virginia, shall be apportioned as
follow?:
There -dull be thirteen Senators west of the Blue
Ridge of Mountains, ami nineteen east of those Moun
tains.
There shall be in the Hou'p of Delegate? one hun
dred and twenty--*ev*n members; of whom twenty
nine shall be elected from the district west of tho Alle
gli my Mountains; twenty-four from the Valley he
ween the Alleghany and Blue Ridge; for-y from the
B'ue Ridge to the Head of Tide-water, ami thirty-lour
thence below.
Resolved, f hat the Legislature shall re-arrange the
representation in both Houses of the General Assem
bly • once in every years, upon a fair aver
age of lliss following rati}*, to wit:
First, of white population;
Second, of Federal numbers.
Provided, That the number of the House of Dele
gates shall never exceed ,nor the number
ot the Senate.
Mr. Mercer now moved that the sense of the com
ini'.ire be taken oil (lies- two resolutions, taken logeth*
er, as an amendment, by way of substitute, for the 2nd
resolution ol the Legislative Committee; (tie afterward*
modified it so as to bo a substitute for the 1st resolu
tion ol that committee )
Mr. P. P. Harbour suggested as a preferable ar
rangement, that the Committee of the Whole should
rise; and in the House he discharged from the farther
consideration of the subject* referred to them, and then
let each member move, in (he House, such propositions
a* had been considered, (or any others,) and let (lie
question be taken din rily as agreeing to lit.-in, instead
of a question of concurring in them as reported by a
Committee. This arrangement could produce no pub
'ic injury or unfairness to either of the parties, or anv
manner O! aimer.
Me moved tin' die committee rise; but withdrew the
mo'ion.a'the requedof
Mr. Johnson, who objected to the course proposed,
«« leaving 'he proceedings of th • Mouse without any
definite order, or course of succession. After some far
ther conversation, Mr. Harbour withdrew his inn to i.
Mr. Scott moved (hat the committee rise and re
pirt.
Mr. Frrztiuon enquired what was then to he re
p <rt'd as to the 15.li and Id'll resolutions*
Mr. Mercer pressed his motion, arid the debate on
it occupied the committee during the rest of the day.
M» claimed his right lo have the question so taken,
because there had been an implied agreement when
tiio-e propositions were offered that a question should
so he taken. This was strenuously denied—and after
much recapitulation of what had taken place at the
lime.
I he CIht was a«ked fo deride whether such a mo
tion could he entertained as in order?
The Chair derided in the affirmative: Mr. Goo nr.
to >k an appeal lo the comm • -e. The motion wa« re
luced to writing by Mr. Mercer in the following
form :
" Re*i>heit, That the question he put to the rom
mitte •, whether (he propod'ions contained in the 11th
and 15th resolutions, being the amendment of the gi-n
tli iaaii from Northampton, as amended on the mo bn*
r>( the gentleman from Albemarle and the gentleman
from Northampton, b* ad >pted as an amendment by
way of sub-titnte for the 1-t resolution of the Lsgisla
live Committee, without any motion made (list such
suhstitu'e he adopted.*’
And the question of order was debated till near three
o’clock
Mr. Mercer was a*k<*d wheth"r lie would move
Ih’se two propositions,himself, as an amendment to the
2nd rasoltiiion?
This he declined; but insi.'ed that (ho sense of the
committee should he taken on th*tn, as one whole, he
wanted this, in order lo govern his future rnur*e
The (leha<* was stienuoua and spirited; hut turnl»g
entirely on questions of order, and I’arlUmentary usage
we adhere to our u«oal course in abstaining from pro*
senting it to our readers.
The. question was at length t«k?n on sustaining Hie
decision of Hie Chdr, and decided in the negative_
Ayes 40—Noes 49.
Ho the committee decided that the motion of Mr
Mkrcsr was out ofo;d«r, and could not he pul,
Mr. Mrrckr then moved that the committee do now
rise and report.
Ttie motion prevailed, and the committee roee accor
dioity.
Mr. Doddkidok stated that the R-port <• ,j near
ly ready, but wanted aomo far her copying to com
plete it.
It was agreed to he received »»*# forma, a* if actu
ally made; and it wa* ordered that it lie on the table,
and hi minted.
Mr. Gounotx moved that the Committee of the
Whole he discharged fioill ail Ihos* suhjtcl* on which
it had not acted.
After so-ue explanation*, this motion was agreed to.
The Secrvteiy was oid-ml to authenticate the Gp
ligliauerh hill for carpeting a portion of the Church.
And then the Hoyse adjourned.
WtDNtSDAV, Doc. 18.
The Convention met at 11 o’clork, and wag opened
with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Horner of the Caiholic
Church.
Mr. I’oivkli, announced to the Concretion, that the
Delegation Irom his Dlatrict, had agreed in the choice
of Mr. James M. Mason, to fill the vacancy, occasion
ed hy the resignation of Mr. Opie.
Mr. Mercer presented the following Letter,from
Gen. Tay lor of Not folk :
, Noaroi.x, Dec. 14,1S29.
Sir—I have hern notified itiis eventlig, of my ap
pointment as a Member ot the Convention, lo supply
the vacancy* occasioned by the resignation ot Mr. Mon
roe. Highly as I value this honor, considerations,
which I am not at liberty to disregard, lorbid me to ac
cept the appointment; and 1 take the earliest opportuni
ty ol communicating this circumstance, that the least
possible inconeeni*.nee tnay result.
1 have <he honor lo be.
Very respectfully,
1 our obedient •"rvan*,
_ „ rohert b. taylor.
The President of the Convention.
On motion of Mr. Mercer, the Letter was laid up
on <he table.
Mr. Hkwdkrso.v announced *o the Convention, that
the Lom'vtin Delcga'ion had-agreed in the choice of Mr.
Joshua Osborne, now a Senator of this State, lo till the
vacancy to which Mr Taylor had been elected.
On motion of Mr. Donum doe, the Convention th#n
proceeded io consider ilia Report ol the Committee of
the Whole:
The committee of the whole Convention have, ac
cording to order, had under consideration the report* ot
the several «**lect committees, on tlm differ-nt De
partments of Government, the Declaration of Rights.
Jtc. together with several resolutions and proportion* to
them referred, and have made several amendment* to
the said report*, which they beg leave to submit. These
amendments arc as follows, vix:
Amendments to the Report vf the Committee on the
Legislative Department.
F.r«*, strike out Irom the word “Constitution,” in the
third line, of the third resolution, to (he end of the re
solution, and insert, “and shall bn extended, in, to ev
ery tiro white male eitir.en of the Commonwealth, res
blent therein, above the age ot twen'vune years, who
own*, and Ins possessed for six month*, or who ha* ac
cpiiied hy marriage, desrent or devise, a freehold es
tate, a**e*-ed to the value of not les than dol
lars, for the payment of (axes, if such a-ses»mcnt shall
bo required hy law; 2ml, or who shall own a vested es
tate in fee. in remainder or reversion, in land, the as
sessed value of which shall be dollars* 3d
or who *h II own, and he himselfin actual occupation
of, a leasehold estate, with the evidence of mla record
ed, of a term originally not less than five years, of the
annual value or rent of dolllan:4th. or wl.n
lor twelve month* next preceding, has been * house
keeper and head of a family within the county, rity
borough, or election district, where he may offer t<
vote, and who shall have been asse««e«l with n part o
the revenue of the Commonwealth within the preeedini
year, and actually paid the same: Provided, neverthe
le*s, that the right of suffrage shall not be exercised h,
any person of unsound mind, or who shill he a pauper
ora non-commissioned rtfi.-er, soldier, sailor, or marine
in the service of Ihe United States, or by any persot
convicted of any infamous crime.”
Resolved, That it ought to be provided tn the Cnnsti
tution, that in all election* in this stale to any office 01
place of trust, honor or profit, the votes should he givei
oo»nlv, or viva vote, and not by ballot.
Amendments to the Report >j the Committee upon tin
Executive Department.
First, a.Id to the tir*' resolution the words following
'o wit : “to tie elected by the General Assembly fo
three yews, and to he inelivihl* tae./Avmow
after - ih.tit.iry succeeding Ms election, or on *„rl
sign i-e” *S lh6 may from time to time do*
Second amendment, aid to the «econd resolution*th«
follow.nr ; “ to he el rted in the same manner, and "
the same time, and for ilia sane peiiolwjth the Gov
ernnr.
Third amendment, strikeout the fifth resdntion
■«n-nd..»«.st, strike om th • sixth resolution.
fifth amendment, strike out in (lie seventh rc«olu
•ton Iron, lit- word “Resolved,” to the end of tip- r-s
om"°n. and Insert that “the mode or appointing ,nili(i.,
officer-, ought to to* provided for liv law: Provided ne
vertheless, that no nffjc-r below th- gradeof Brigidiei
|,TV ’ * ,0U" be-#IT°in,®d f*y the General Assein
Sixth amendment, strike n,,t the eighth resolution.
porP *" a,"0ndm*‘n,‘ a‘W ‘l»« following to there
.T,iat. 1,16 Governor a,,l Lieutenant Gor
ernor shall he chosen f-om such persons only as are
nattv-e citr/en* ,.f the United Stares, who |11VP
die age of thirty_ year*, and have been citizen* of the
election, g ‘ 6v° iln*ne,U ,,e|y prscediug the
l» R-solved That both (he Governor and Lieuten
ant Governor shall receive for their services, a root
pensaitsii to be determined hy law, and to he „ei her
rncreased nor diminished, during the term for which
hey shall have been elected, and they shall be liable
to he impeach d and removed fro,,, office, lor trea-on
biih-ry or oth -r crimes or misdemeanors.
II. Ref'deed. That it shall he the duty of the Gov
ernor to execute, or rat.., tn he executed, all the laws
ol the ( omwonwealth; to communicate to the Leeisla
turc, at every session, the condition of the State, ami to
recommend to their consideration such measure* as he
m.n- 'teem eXp ,; „| H„ ,,,H„ Commander
Chit! af (lie land ar.d naval forri** of t‘ie Staff «|mI|
have power to convene the Legislature, when’in hi*
opinion, the interests of the State may require it,or on
son icat.on of a majority of the me.nl,era of the Hour,
of Delegate*: to till vacanri-i occurring during the
rece-sor.he Legislature, in offices, the appointment to
wh.ili is vested in the Legislaiive bodyjto grant re
pnevH, or pardons except where the prosec,liinn shall
have been carried on by the House of Dsleg.ies, or
tb-law shall otherwise parficularly direr!; and to con
duct, either in p«rson. or by surf, agents a* the L-gis*
lat.ire may deugnaie, all negociation. and corresiKm
n»nce «vi»n ofh**r or foreign Sm 1*n. 1
.uncnumcm, in u,r urporl of the Committee upon the
• 'RMitiary Department.
•*«rvf. in Mis? first line of 'he first resolution, before
ll,e woid Courts insert “Supreme.”
S-cond, in the third lm» of tb- •jih» resolution, after
the word “estaMf-h,” strike out th* word “end.”
Iltirtl, after the word "courts” i„ the third line of
(he same resolution, insert “and in the Justiees of the
I race, who shall rompo e the «ai.l courts; die
kdure may al-o vest sudi jurisdiction as shall tie deem
ed necessary, m corporation f .urts and in the magi*.
trdes who in it y belong to the corporate body.” **
fourth amendment, in the v-cund resolution, third
hue, strike out the word “first” where it occur., and
inset t the same word before “legislature” j., <),« ,ime
Fifth amendment, fourth lino of the same r-olmlon
sti.kc out the word “held,” and insert the word “elect
S *fh amendment, in the fourth line of the third
resolution, strike out “concurrent,” and insert ” joint ”
Seventh amendment, alter the word •« Assembly,” In
the filth line of the -ame resolution, strike out to (lie
wont "but,” in die twelfth line.
laghtii amendment, in the fourth resolution second
line aPer the word ” Conr-s,” bi.-rt .. , J„.(irp,
of the county courts, and the Aldermen, or other Mi
of corporniron court*.99
Ninth amendment, in the fit h resolution, strike out
(he words » by and with the advice and consul of the
Amendment to the Report of the Committer on 1%,
Rill of Righto, fye.
First amendment, In the second report of the com
.n.Pee upon (he »"l of Mights, Ur. fif h rc-olutio-, se-‘
rood end third line., strike out the words <« under the
United SlAtn*, nr.
The committee of the whole have further, according
.. order, had under consideration, a proposition submit
M in the Mouse on the 30th day„f November last, by
Mr. Upshttr, of the fenor following to w it: '
\VTlZd' ,,'%,,0!,”of Delegates shall con
shI of 121) members, of which, there shall be chosen
for the first District, or District West of tho Alio
gnany mountain, „<j
For the Second Mis'riot, or District of the Valley, 22
for th., n.irsl District, or District between the
Bine Nidge and Che head of tide-water 3<<
For the Fourth District, or District between the
hand of ti'le-wafer and the ocean, 01
Jh-t shall consst of
Z nSn&w, TLSr "*clKm" ,
For the .Second District, aforesai 1 r
For the Third District, aforesaid, ’ p |
For th« Fourth District, aforesaid, 8
3. Resolved, That the legislature shall have power
o re-arrange the representation in both Houses of the
Usncral Assembly, once in every " years, upon a
fair average of tlie following ratios, to wit: 1st. of whito
imputation: 2.1, of white population and taxation com
blued: 3d, of Federal numbers: Provided, that the num
ber of the House of Delegates shall never o.xccwd ICO,
nor tho numbers of the. Senate 40
To which your rommiltco beg leave to report the
following amendments, by way of substitute, to wit:
Revolved, That the representation in tho Senate and
House of Delegates of Yirgiuia, shall bo apportioned a*
fellows: .
There shall ho 13 Senators west of the Ditto lvidgo of
mountain* and 19 east of those nimmtuitu.
Thoro shall ho In the House ol Delegates. 127 mem
bers; of whom, 29 shall ho elected from the District west
of the Allegh inji’ mountain; 21 from tho VaiJey between
the Alleghany and Dine Ridge: and 40 from the Rluc
Ridge to the head of tide-w ater, and 34 tltcnro below.
Resolved, That the Legislature shall re-arrange the
representation in l>oth Houses of the General As
sembly, once in every-years, upon a fuir average
of the following ratios, to wit: 1st, whito population:
2nd, Federal numbers: Provided that the ttumbor of
the House of Delegates shall not oxcced —, nor the
number of the Senate-.
Mr. Powell, enquired of tbs Chair, wlia* wa* to be
done, in relation to those Resolution* of the »-*vera|
Committees, to which there were no amendments?
The CiiAtR replied, that after all the aniendmvnts
had been gone through, tho question would then he
put on concurring with the Resolutions not amended.
Mr. Doddkidue enquired, whether, after the House
should have concurred in any amendment reported by
the Committee, that amendment would be susceptible of
lartbcr amendin'-nt?
The Chair teplied in the negative : hot stated, tha'
any amendment which was proposed to a R»-olution it
self, of either *f th« C.umnitt *c«, would he in order :
snd even the Slmendm-nts to them, might be amended,
if other matter were included in tlie motion, so as not
to involve tlie contradiction of striking out, what had
bepu agreed to be put in.
Tlie question then recurring on the concurrence of
the Convention with 'he aineiylments proposed by the
committee of tho whole to tlie 3d resolution of tlie Le
gisla'ivc ooinmi'tee,
Mr. PoiipniursK demanded that the question on con
curring he taken by yea* and nays.
Mr. Tyler asked that tlie amendment proposed
loth-3-1 resolution should be divided into clauses, and
•It* question of concurrence be put upon each clause,
serin tint
Mr Leigh enquired, wlie'her, after the amend
men' should have hern disposed of, it would be in order
to move a substitute?
The Chair r tolled in the affirmative.
Mr. Stax a rd demands ' that the question on strik
ing out the several clauses in the original re»olut;nn In,
or *er to introduce the amendments in their room, he al
so divided, snd put separately on e-irli clause.
'Vhirh, after some conver-ation was agreed fn.
The question was then put on agreeing with the re.
port of the com. of the whole which recommends tha*
the following clause, he stricken out, vis.: •• Provided
that no person shall vote by virtue of his freehold only.
unless the same shall lie a->«‘'*«cd to the value of at l.-ast
:*!— for the the payment of taxes, if such assessment be
required tiy law.”
Sir. Sr a rr\nn moved that the h'snk in the aliove
j clause be first filled; and that it be filled with the sum
of $25.
Ou tl is motion. Mr. Powell demanded the yea«
and nays, and thoy were ordered by the House.
Mr. Mercer questioned tlie right of having th
question ot striking out drawn into clauses;
The Chair replied that it wa* usually conceded a*
of course; but the Hou«e might rofu*- to permit it.
Mr. Powell withdrew hi-< call for the yea-* fc. nays.
Mr, Thommox now moved to fill the blank with
SI:—Hating that the price at which the State sold its
•am!« being $2 for 100 acre-*, $1 would purchase 50
acres of land.
iMr. >tanard oppoffq tm* motion going to maki
t!ic |>iovi«o ridiculous and preposterous Tin* very ex
'cut of slie proviso is. to prevent men from voting ii
mere nominal freehold*: and In fill the blank at $1
would nuke the live hold unuiiii.il purely, and was, it
fact, the introduction of universal .till age
Mr. Thompson said, he should be glad if lie couh
defeat the provi<o and make it nominal only. He wa
one ol those who iegard>*d a freehold suflrig* as “ridi
culon* and prepositions” If there must tie any sncl
qualification at all. he was for making i* a* cheap a
„ossjh!e _.1UJ :vll..'sl»fl,'lWM>t.V ii ihsir d.Hv to do io -
lie would t.-ll the gentleman from Spot'sylvauia, (Mr
Van »rd) tint were voles given in the countv of Am
lierst on land not assessed at $S now, at this preset!
tune, rhe existing constitution «»id nothiog about tin
quality ol the land; it required a certain quantity only
I he constitution gave the same right ol suffrage on i
o T,. "o’, 0< 5" :'cr,‘*’ ,h '* •' ''i'1 •» freehold of *100,
Odd. 1 hat might he called “ridiculous and prepo-te
rous. While Virginia sold it« public lands ;',t *2 fo
100 ,prp'" va'!'e the freehold at *1, (the pri.-e' ol ol
acre.) was, in hi# opinion, neither “ridiculous nor nre
poise roll*. 1
Mr. S raN.um said, lie had not affirmed that the
motion was ridiculous, hut that it would mak- the pr*
vi-o appear fo. Mr. S. had addressed the friend* of a
prop |tj qualification, and not the opposer* of it an1
friends of nnltersil-uffrago. If there were freehold
m Amherst not worth more Hi,., $S. lie had riot beer
w w ire of the fac*; llicv must be. he presumed, on tin
derhv.ttes of the Rice Rtdge. ||, a*ked the friends o
a freehold light of snffrago, whether they would intro
duce -a proviso which was a restraint in on* part i-f th*
Mate and not in another? If *tirh was the off ct of ti c
pr-sent constitution, it had grown out of the changes
produced by time, ar d ought to he remedied
„ Pe T'r-stjr.n was then put on tilling the blank wi'h
$2.*. an-l negatived—lyes 37.
Mr. Scott move f to fill it with $10.
Mr. Brodnax mov*d $21.
Mr. Marihau, suggest,.,| that it might save time a!
once to put the question on agreeing with the report ol
Hie committee lir-t: if the chute were retained, the
Ir (ink could he filled afterwards.
The several motions for filling the blank, were there
upon withdrawn.
» Mr, Nicholas wasoppo*ed fo requiring any speci
fic value in the freehold. The frltle piece of land ot
, . I,oor ,,,an w'<«« dear fo hi n as the estate of the
rich.
M- Leigh said, that the cfT-cf of this clause was to
disqualify many who were already Freeholder*. !,„i
whose freehold might not come up to the required va.
Hi" : lie should vole to strike it out, because lie would
not consent ta lake away the right of siiIT age from am
ort hose who now enjoyed it. If., was unwilling <o dis
tur., a right once ve-ted, thong', if coii*u'te<| when that
right was to be granted, he might possibly hare refuted
Mr Coai.tk* state! a fact whirl, had come to hi
knowiege m rela'iou to this right of vn'ing. A man
being cilled to serve a- a jury man, was ask-d whether
le was a freelmld-r? H- replied in the negative. The
Cl-rk nf the Court insisted that he wa-, and reminded
bun of a deed recorded fi mnnl'is before which convoy
ed to him a freehold, on wli ch freehold he had vo'.d st
the la<t el-etinn The man replied th»f he knew noth
ing about the deed : that he tli-Haim-d Ihe deed ntid
the Tr* ehold too r and wh-n he bat voted hod voted a
a freeman, snppoirng hlm elf to have a right to do m
I lie qu "tinn was now put on striking out ih • first
*30,1 'VA*"l”ied hy iv..« „i,l noes.
AYF,S — Messrs. Harbour, (President) Leigh of C..
Taylor of C. Gilo#. Hmdnax. Dro-ngoole, Aloxan
d-r. Goo f-. Marshall, Ty'or. Nicholas, Clonfon. An
derson, Coffman. Harrison, Williamson, Baldwin, Mc
Coy, Moore. Beirne, Sml'li. Baxter, Claihornp. Urrju
liart, Randolph, Vrna’ le, Holliday, Mercer, Mender
•on. Osborne, Cocke, Powell, Grigg./Mason, Naylor
Don.ihl-on, Boyd, P. ndleton, George, McMillan,Camp-’ I
7 Washington. Byars. Roane, Morris. G.irn-t-. I
Cloyd. Chapman, M tthews, Oglesby, Duncan, Laidlcv I
uaimers See, Doddridge, Morgan, Carnphrll ol II !
Wilson, Barbour of Culpeper. Campbell of H dlorl
( laytor Saunders. Mranrh, Townes, Cihelf, Martin,’
Stuart, Pleasants, Gordon, Thompson, Massie, Hates!
Jovnes. Mayley, Upshur an<l Perrin_-75.
NDLS —Messrs. Jone-, Johnson, Mason. TreXvan*,
l--ig t of If., Logan. Madfron, Stanard, FTfxhugh Tay
lorof Caroline. Scott. M Tae, Green, Ta/ewell, L ,y
all. I rent!., Grigsby, Neale, Ro«e antf Cnalter — 21*.
>o til- Convention concurred In the report *r ihe
Committee of the whole recommending that this clause
be stricken out.
■Mr. Scott, after adverting lo Ilia full nt endance of
•ha members of the Convention, (one only being absent,
and his attendance could b* procured) moved In lay
•he report of the Committed of llm whole upon the t» )
hi-*, wl’h a view to take up the all absorbing question!
of 'he both »f representation,
Mr. Dodorinok oppo-e I tbs motion as only leading !
to a needless consumption of time.
Mr. MkrcCR suggested that the gentleman
would not o» t dn that end hy pursuing Ihe course be
proposed. The proper course would he to take tip first
the amendments reported by (he committee.
Mr Scor r replied, that lb- e >nrie sttgges-ed by the
pen l«m*n from Loudoun would not aceoniplisli the i
object be had in view. He sought In obtain a setile- I
m o' of tlie all-absorbing question of rrp-e-enlation, ]
which affretrd «o many uf the great question* before
Hie Convention.
!!-• wished to avail himself of the a'frndanre of *'
full If >nse, and at onco take up the quo ti-.n of" the j
n»gri» S •naff," as It had been called. He w.is for,
encountering this spirit which had so long be -n haunt
ing the path of the Convention *ud meeting it at every
tu- n, and for laying it.
This was his object end he meant to pursue it.
Mr. Summers was opposed to the motion—the qur*.
tlon of a negro Senate might be important in the vtews
of many, but be would not, even (or the sake of settling
the question a* to s n-gro House of Delegates, depart
ficm the regular order of proceeding*—the question was
• beorSing. indeed, (and bs fearrd it wn«lik<-ly to absorb
tin* liberties ol the People of the Commonwealth) but he
eoubl n. t ron-cut to force it at this moment. Two gen
tlemen bad taken tbelr seals in Convention for the first
tune that morning; and it was decorous to allow this
qiies'i.n) to It a at least one d.iy bvlore they were com
polled to give n vote upon it
The question was taken on postponing the report of
the Committee of the Whole, anil lost, ayes 43.
The question recurred on concurring with the Com
mittee of the Whole, in striking out the following
claim* of the R-port or the Legislative Committee,
v.r.: *• nnd shall ho extended, 1st to every free-white
male citizen of the Commonwealth resident therein,
above the age ol 21 years, who owns and has possessed
for G month*, or who has acquired by marriage, de
scent. or devise, a freehold estate, atsessed to the va
lue of not le«s than —— dollars for the payment of
taxe«, if micIi assessment shall be required by law.”
Mr. Ghkex moved to till (he above blank with $200,
Mr. HttonarAx made an eX|>).inatioQ ns to the ground*
of his former vote which was not distinctly heard by
th-» Reporter.
Mr. Me Cor moved to fill the blank with $10.
Mr. L>:tni« wi'h $50.
Mr. Stanaru moved $10.
Mr. Tow ell $25. sf
The question was put on $200, nnd negatived, Ayee
43—Noe* 4S.
Hie question was put oo $10, and negatived, Ayee
45.
I* was then put on $23, nnd carried, Ave« 52.
The question then recui ring on concurring with the
Committee of the Whole in striking out the clause, it
wan negatived.
The question was next put on agreeing to strike out
the following: “ 2d, or who •hall ow.. a vested estate
in fee, in remainder, nr reversion, in land, the assess
ed value of width shall he — — dollar*.”
Mr. Staward moved to fill the blank with $50 :
whirl), he thought, preserved a proper ratio between
an estate in possession and in rever«ior..
Mr. Ci.aytor moved $23—not seeing any reason
why th« smn should he increased : the owning of an
estate in reversion, g ive a man the same interest in the
community. He was goverii-d only by that principle.
The question being taken on tiffing (he blank with
$30, it was carried—ave« 51.
On motion of Mr. Mercer, the following clause
was inserted, viz: •• if such assessment shall be re
quired by law.”
The queation being then put on striking out, it wm
negRiJved.
Mr. I.rioh ro«e tonfT-r an amendment, which went
not to affect the substance it all, of what had hc«n
agreed on, but only In throw it into a more distinct and
definite lorin. He wished tnconfnrm it to the language
of the Constitution and Laws; and also to introduce *
class, w| ich hr was well assured, it was not the inten
tion of the Convention fo exclude : he meant, co-parce
nor*, tenants in common,and joint tenants, in a freehold,
not large enough as to its number of acres, to
fall within the constitutional limit, but of sufficient val
ue, to entitle it to give a vote, as well as others which
wt* larger. He moved to amend the Report, by
•'liking out all from the word ” Resolved,” to the wortf
“ Provided,” and to insert an amendment, which lie
read— hut which was subsequently withdrawn.
The question then recuraed en atriking out the fol
lowing ;
“ 31. Or who shall own and have passes'etl a lease
hold estate, with the evidence of title recorded, of a
term originally not le-s than five years, anti one of
irhich shall he unexpired, ol the annual value, or reut
of - doll ar*.**
On motion of Mr. Stan Ann, the rlati>e was amend
ed, hy striking onf (he words [have possessed,] and in
serting in lieu thereof toe words, “ be himself in the
actual occupation of.”
And, on motion of Mr. Mrncrtt, the words, “and!
one of which shall he unexpirrd,” were stricken out
aye* 5-L
The question new recurring on striking out this
clause,
Mr. I,cion »aid, that being opposed to extending the
Right ol Suffrage, to tenants subject to distress by
their landlords, he should vote to strike out the clause*,
ami against inserting any other, containing that princi
ple. ||« demanded, that the question on striking eut,.
1 he tak- n by yen and n iv«: and ft eras so order-d.
:: '• - * - -.- wuhk wnn «25.
air. Claytor moved $10.
i'lie motion of Mr. Greene was negatived_Aves 41'
Noes 52. J r
Mr. Doddrif>gk moved $5.
Mr. St\ward moved $20.
<l"es,ion t,eir'K Pul on $20; it was carried— Aye*
-17, IVoes 47. 1
Tlie chair in the nfllrmatlvfe.
The question on striking out was then taken, and dfe
C a vro i nezat,rc 1,y yeas and nays as follows:
A y L> —Messrs. Jones, Leigh ol C. Taylor of Cl.
!' , * BrotluK. Dromgcole, Alexander, Goode; Ni*
cholas, Clopton, Mason, Trezvant, Claiberne, Urquhsrt,
Randolph, Leigh, ol II. Logan, Venable, Roane,Taylor,.
Morris, Garnett, Scott, Tdzawell, Grigsby, Loyall,.
Pren'i-, Townes, Bate«, Neale, Co.liter.—.‘52. 1
NOLS.—..Messrs. (Harbour, President.) Marshall,
lyler Anderson, Coffman, Hmrison, Williamson. Maid
l rtT* MK,C0Jt M’P* Moor,‘* R irne, Smith,
Miller, R'xicr, Madison, Stanard, Ilolladay, Osborne,
Mercer, I-Hz.nigh, flendermn, Cooke, Powell; Mason.,
'•nggs, jun. Aaylor, Donaldson, Boyd. Pendleton*.
\rZ<n' Byars, C’oyd, Chapman,.
Ma hews, O j. sby, D.mran, Laidley. Summers,' See,.
I)."b,ridge M(,rK.m, Campbell of Brooke, Wilson;. Bar-,
hour of l.ulpep, r. M acrae, Green, Campbell of Bedford,.
CUytor, Branch. S.iimlers, dbell, Marlin. Stuart, j„n..
on » Gardm, Thompson, Massie, jun. Rtrse,
Jo\ n-*, Biyley, Upshur. Partin._04.
tAf®,!!f.?0nV.Cn,ion fc,!olvo<l C»y « vote of twothihls).
to retain the clause admitting lease-holders to the right
ol Kullraftc. *
The question was next put on striking out the fol
lowing clause:
“ Ith. Or who for twelve months next preceding, has
to on a house-keeper and head of a family within the
county, city, borough or election district, w here he may
to vote, and who shall have been assessed with n
p rt of the revenue of the Commonwealth within- the
preceding year, and actually paid the same.”
Mr. Lekjii moved to amend the clause hy inserting
after the words, “ the preceding year” these words,
viz: “to the amount of-”
Mr. I.Kimi again presenting the rase of a freelioW
« r excluded because bis bind did not come up to the
( institutional limit, while his tenant, paying no tax wa»
admitted to vote.
He demanded tlic yeas and nays upon the amend
ment, and they were ordered by the House.
M Mmic.m sail th« css ■ p.,t t,y Mr. Lkioh
could not happ-n. «. the la'ler part of the clause re
quired tiie tenant to pay a tax.
Mr Leigh replied that this wj« mere verbal crlt
rpm; the tenmt might pay a (ax of 4 cents, or ten
cent, on a ho'«e, and then he ronM rote, while the
(owner of his hoii-e and land was excluded from the
polls. If the Legislature sh- nld he possessed with aa
grot a desire to < x(*r d the Right of Suffrage a« some
gentlemen in the Convention manif.wed, they might
biy a ra,.nation tax of I rent or o( one mill, and admit
caery inan to vote. 7 he injustice of excluding the
landlord, '•>* tenant voted before Ids face, was
huge and palpable- and the only remedy was to fix an
amount of tax to be paid,
Mr. Mercer replied that he had not meant his re
mar k, as a mere verba! criticism. He was not himself
in favour of taxation a* a qualification at all, because it
pnfthe extent of the Right of Suffrage into the power
ot the Legislature, who might indirectly contract er
extend it, by increasing or diminishing taxation. What
attracted him to the resolution wa* the preceding part
off, vi/,: that the man should be a house keeper and
.icxl o, a family; tins he thought a much heller teat of
Interest in, and attachment to, the community than
any landed qualification whatever.
Mr. !• it/hugh said, that on the preceding portion*
ot the report he had voted with comparative indiffer
ence: because, taken together, they formed such a
complicated and unequal system of suffrage that it ne
ver could he adopted.
Mr. b . said that he had. after much reflection,
wRhI great difficulty t-ro^ht Ms mind to abandon the
freehold right of suffrag^ and he had done *o mainly
nut of deference to what he believed to he the opln
ion« arvi wi*h*f of hi« ron*ti(ii?n(*. And now in
what way ought the right to ha regulated? He had
thought that the best basis for it was residence and the
possession of'prnperty; whether that property were real
or ere >nal Ife only differed f 0 ,, h gentleman from
< hesterflcld a* to the mode of arrerfa nine the po**ea
sion of these requi-i'es If. said Mr. F . you fig an a
mount of tax a« your test, you create the occasion of a
perpetual contest in the Legislature a* to raising or
lower! (g the tag wi,h * view to it* operation* on the
right of suffrage
I bar o drawn up an amendment which it I* my pur
no.e to off,>r by way ol substitute, unless the gentle
man from ( hesterhclrl I* disposed to avail himself of
it and adopt it a* hi* own—I suggest it to the gentle
man * censidcration* he c<n offer it or not »* he thick*
he t. It is in the following words: “Provided the! no
eapuation lax shall, at any lime he Uni on th* free
White f | r/.ens of i|»i* cominoowealth, anrt that no indi
vbloal. who*- taxable nrooerty I# of lee* vclue than
dutlars shall he subject >0 arjr property tag what
ever. I am aware of ouo diflicul'j which attind*