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The Abbeville press and banner. (Abbeville, S.C.) 1869-1924, April 12, 1893, Image 1

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The Abbeville Press and Banner. |
MM Fait
The Chicago, the St. Louis, 1
Ocala, the Omaha, the Allian
the Sub-Treasury, the Anl
Cleveland and the Post Cle\
land Varieties are as Good
any, at Washington,
Much Fuss and Little Wo
? -?
Po?lniMlrr-MehnolmRiiter Bluel! I
quired (be Boy* fo Belinve The
M?>lveM. or El?9 He Would DIhid
(he School.
Our New Representatives, as Well as (
Old Representatives, Show More Te
per than Becomes the Dignity or Tt
Respective Stations and Fersonalltlei
The State.
Washington, April 5.?The following 1
complete stenographic report ol the hmir
given the "Reform" members of the Soi
Carolina Congressional delegation by P?
master General Blssell on the 5th Inst.:
Washington, Aprils, 1883.?At3o'ciocl
m. there assembled In the office of the P<
master General of the United stales,
Postraukter Genera), Senators Butler i
lrbv, Representatives Talbert, Latimer, SI
and Btrau aud ex-Representatives H?mpt
and Johnstone.
The Postmaster General: Before proof
tiiK with this conference I desire to tnab
suggestion. I know how important this e
Jectlstoall of you gentlemen, and I ka
that when political questions arise they
apt to engender a good deal of personal U
lug; and so we will go ahead with tills oon
ence now, upon the express stipulation t
upon any angry words being used, I shall t
inmate it. 1 want both sets of gentlemen
accord me the privilege of terminating t
conference at any time I have a mind
without assign lug any reason for It. I des
that every gentleman here present shall i
demand that, so that there will be no pert*
al offense to any gentleman here or to i
Leave me the right to decide that. I call y<
attention to that at the beginning, so ll
yuu lllttj uidvub0 luio uiovki uinuaooiuuuv
and coolly all the way through. If you ag
to tbat, we will proceed.
Senator Irby : On the part of the Refo
Congressmen from Soul b Carolina I wish
nay that the proceedings will oe conduc
with the utmost decorum; but I feel that 1
Incumbent upon me to say tbat a gentleii
from South Carolina baa said tbat Gen. ?
lerbad declared to him that be whs com
to thin conference loaded, with stick lu bt
and pistol lu pocket. I wish to say, on
part of the Reform Congressmen, that we
loaded with arguments or Justice and rlt
but tbat we have no pistols, aud shall c
duct this Investigation with the utmost
The Postmaster General: If there Is t
of that klud of busluess?
Senator Butler: That makes an Issue p
ty sharply at once, it my colleague has i
Idea that I have a pistol or anyitilug m
than a cane, which 1 am obliged to useSenator
Irby: I only 6 pea ft of it oecaus
was told to me by J. II. Tiluian, eorrespo
entof the Angu?ta Cnronicie.
Senator Butler: Do you give lilmasy
authority ?
Senator Irby: Ye*, sir.
Senator ButU-r: I never raid that. TL
Ik not n sellable of foundation lor it?tic
syllable. I never curried a pistol lu my I
Tbe proposition Ik too absurd to be repec
in tbls presence?too ridiculous. I am a
tie amazed tbat my colleague obocld hi
thought It oecersary to have repeated sue
statement, knowing me as well as be does.
Senator Irby: He gave tills iurormatloc
tbe presence of three Congressmen ft
South Caroliua.
Tbe Postmaster General: Who Is hi
newspaper man ?
senator Irby: Yes, sir!
The Postmaster General: I have been li
but a short time, but I find that these ne
paper men we \ery apt to get up Jokes
must assumetnat this is a jjkeuntit lam i
differently advised.
Senator Irby: 1 am ready to assume the
Is a Joke, but I thought it proper thai ;
should know It
The Postmaster General: We may sai
assume that li is simply a grotesque sug
tion. Let us brush that away. It that rl
Is reserved to me?I do not quite Bee how 1
leaslble to give that power to anybody eli
we will proceed.
Senator Irby: I must cheerfully acc
that right to the Podmanter General.
Senator Butler: I do not think it necess
for you to accord him mat rlgbt. The P
master General can do that without any <
senton your purl.
The Postmaster G^nerel: I* might hup
In thiB way; that In the heat of the dls
iilon to terminate the conference might 8<
unfair to one side or the other, If It Is do
lowed to reply to something tbat has b
said by the other side. That being un
stood, suppose, now gentlemen, that we
who got up the fracas.
Senator Butler: I think we ought to st
Mr. Postmaster General, that I am here
your invltatlou entirely.
Tbe Postmaster General: That Is tru?
received word that you (referring to Re
sentatlve Latimer) were to be here. I th
you gave me the word personally. You i
you gentlemen would like to be heard on
Senator Irby: And that lam hereon
invitation also.
The Postmaster General: I wrote a le
to Senator Butler, telling him that we wi
lake the matter up and asking him to be
Mr. Hemphill: Mr. Johnstone and ray
Mr. Brawley, Is absent from the city
The Postmaster General: I think I n
tloned him in ray letter.
Mr. Hemphill: He is absent from thee
tie U In South Carolina.
The Postmaster General (to Mr. Latlm<
This meeting was convened on j'our sug
Representative Latimer: Yes, sir!
The Pt stmaster General: Then sup]
you state the purpose, and open It.
Representative Latimer: We came
Washington, alter having returned hornet
the Inauguration, for the purpose of looi
into the postotllce appointments. Dr. Si
and myself went Into the office of tbe Foi
Assistant Postmaster General. Mr. Mux\
and Introduced ourselves. He said to
Ktrali: "Senator, I am very glad to see ;
There Is a little mutter I wish you to exp
In regard to the Third Party Congress
iroin your State." He pulled out a list of
members of the Fifty-third Congress, and we
saw pencil marks at my name, Dr. Stralt'R
name aud Mr. McLnurln's name. I asked
him what that meant. He said, "These are
| the Third Party Congressmen." I said, "1 am
J Latimer, and that Is Dr. Strait. We are not
! Third partyites. I never uttered a Third pari
tp sentiment In public In my life." These
11 charges have been made, Mr. Postmaster General,
down in otir districts through the newspapers,
and finding our names marked in the
Fourth Assistant Postmaster General's office,
It was natural for us to inquire who did It
_ The Postmaster General said we should come
TPP back and see him again : that there would be
Jjj|) nothing done In our State uutil this was Investigated.
We left there and went back to
our hotel, and that Is why we asked for this
JJ conference.
The Postmaster General: So far as that is
concerned I want to say right here that I had
, a conversation, I think with you, but certalnilie
ly with two or three other gentlemen, who
are associated with you, (I think you were
QP present.) In which I explained to you that
> the llstyou referred to was a list of the dlsifi_
trlcts In the wtiole country that had been
made up by some clerk In the department
aud bad been laid upon my desk, and rere~
mained here open lyou this desk all the time
for weeks until the-tfourth Assistant Postmasas
ter General was nominated and confirmed.
Alter that I handed the list over to him. 1
did not touch the list; I made no check
marks or any other marks on it. I do not
know who made up the list. It was made up
as a list of all the district* in the United
States, as I understand It. I did not even
QF look at It. I handed it over to Mr. Maxwell
and said : "Tnls may be of service to you."
Now. that Is the beginning and the end of the
relation of the Postofflce Department to that
list. There was no determination about it as
to a Third party man, or a Democrat, or a
Kenuhiican. or anything of the kind: there I
was no decision or determination upon tliat
list That I explained, and I supposed that
wan understood by you gentlemen tully.
I Representative Latimer: I understand
ftl that; but the only point in my mind is tbat
vl> there is a contest in our 8tate and tbe Fourth
Assistant Postmaster General having said
that there would be nothing done until this
was investigated, I asked lor this.
Re- Fourth Assistant Postmaster General,
m. That Is proper.
Representative Lxtlmer: lam ready here
to face any men whoever accused me of being
a Third parlylte or having uttered a Third
party sentiment on tbe stump. I advocated
10- the Democratic party, I went into my counties
alter Cleveland was nominated making
speeches, urging the people to vote this Democratic
ticket. I never advocated anybody of
voting tbe Third party ticket, publicly or privately.
Now, if anybody can disprove that, I
)ur would like to hear it. or if anybody thinks to
m_ tbe contrary, I would like to know 1L I have
, always been a Democrat; I have always voted i
ieir tbe Democratic ticket. I never atSlllated
i. with or bad any sympathy with any other
1'itA D.?o?r*inolorJlonot*o 1 Vnn o 1 trot'c haoo
befn a Democrat, and are now a Democrat?
? 0 Representative Latimer: Yes, sir; I nave ,
always been a Democrat, and am now.
11 Po^master-Geueral: And claim to be entl*Jtr
tied to recognition us a Democrat, and tbat '
you owe allegiance to none otber tban tbe
1 P- Democratic parly ?
ft1 Representative Latimer: Yes,sir. There is
lu? h charge tbat I weut to the Omaha oonveu,,
tlon. I was not there. I went to St. Louie, to
an agricultural convention, sent as a delegate
1111 from my State?to the Alliance convention;
went In there as a delegate and took part in
the proceedings. But when It adjourned and
there was amass meeting called and delegates
ted- elected to affiliate with the Third party,
lea simply because I went to an agricultural conub
ventlon at St, Louis. I say there Is not a
ow mortal wbo walks the earth who can say tbat
are I ever made a Third party speech or advocated
jel- ihe Third party In public or in private. Beier
fore I finish I want tosay that I went Into the
hat Democratic primaries; 1 am chairman of the
.er- Democratic party In my county; I went Into
to the Democratic primaries and met my oppohls
nent, Mr. Johnstone, on the stump, and was
to, never accused of being a Third party man In
>ire that canvass. I ran as the Democrat lo noml- <
nn- nee; In the Democratic primaries be withon
drew. I
Senator Irby: He was defeated.
>ur Representative Latimer: He was defeated
hat la the primaries; I got tbe nomination, and j
ely then I ran against a Republican.
Representative Strait: I was going to ask If
there was any one present who had any
rra charges to make. We are Informed there
to Were men who had made charges. i
ted The Postmaster-General: Does any gentlet
Is man desire to make auy charges or asfc any
tan questions? It he does, right now is the time
'ut- to do It.
t be
are Mr. Hemphill: I want to make a state,(ll
ment. I represented for ten years the district
qD! which Dr. Strait has been elected for. I
de_ thought I knew something of the people of
that district, and I think so still. As long as
tnv the Democratic party In South Carolina was
united and had a fixed set of principles upon
which the party agreed, there was always a
treat deal of kind feeling between the Senators
and Representatives here, through which
rel* the Representatives of tne Slate practically
lu? made the recommendations, so far as the apore
golntments of postmasters was concerned,
. 1 QHl WH8H CUUriCTV CAbCllUCU IU uo Uj uuu
e 11 Senators from South Carolina which was not
nd* extended by Senator# from any other 8tates
In the Union. That, I understand, has been
our varied in some respects, because there are In
South Caroltna Democrats with different
kinds of faith. That Is the trouble in this
iere matter.
u 1 do not say that these gentleman are not
''Ie: Democrat*. according to their conception of
'"J1 what Democracy Is, but I say that I have a
1,1 right to make a recommendation to the Post*ve
master General of this Department, first, as a
" a citizen of South Carolina; second, as a man
who has represented that district (or ten
' ln years, and who understands It as well as any
om man In the country doe* understands it, and
because I have always been and am to day a
a firm believer in Mr. Cleveland and the policy
which he believes ln and the policy which he
was electeu to carry out.
iere The question, It seems to me, Is this: What
ws* kind of Democrats are these gentlemen? I
! * have no personal accusation against them.
it,a They have a right to advocate whatever principles
they want to- but the question is
tl 11 whether or not they advocate such a Deraoc>ou
racy as Mr. Cleveland wants to sustain, is to
recognize and to encourage in South Carolina.
That, it seems to me, is the real question.
Now, as I say, I wanted to make some reo(ely
ommendatlons here on the grounds that I
ge>t- have stated, and because Senator Butler,as he
ght stated to you the other day, has asked me to
It is do that because he wanted come Information
Be? which I bad, and which he did not possess, In
reference to the people there. It Is a matter
ora WCII ttUUWU IU an UI UO UVIO vuav vuvie (*l v
different views Id the Democracy of South .
iary Carolina, and that Mr. Cleveland shall either
ost- suntain one side or the other, and It Is Tor him
son- to determine which side he will sustain.
I may say that I came here in addition to
pen that because I am surprised to see these gencus
tlemen here. Dr. Strait, the gentleman with
?ern whom I ran at the primaries, was a member
t al- of the convention which adopted the famous
^en resolutions in May recommended by Mr. LuU
der- imer. These resolutions have been printed
prt>. from one end of this country to the other.
They say that the nomination of Mr. Cleveland
Is a prostitution to Democracy. Did
they believe It, or did they not believe it ? Jf
atj, they believed It, then Mr. Cleveland 1b corrm
rupMnu the Democracy of this country. II
on Mr. Cleveland believes that, let blm stand by
, . the people who think that of him. If he does
1 not believe that he Is corrupting the DemocK
racy of the country and prostltuttng It, then I
a in 8tt/ 'le ou*htto recognize his friends,
j,, I say, therefore, that I am astonished that
lulB these gentlemen are here asking for patron,
. age. Of course, we aie all inclined to fudge
1118 people somewhat by ourselves, but If I had
, denounced any prominent Democrat of this
ni<i country as a tool?I had better read the exact
nrL words for fear I may misquote; "Weshall
pre" look upon the nomination of ex-President
lr Cleveland"?so says the resolution?"if forced
seu> upou the party at the Chicago convention, as
a pruMuuuuu w iue pnuuificoui i/ouiuunuj ;
leu* uh a repudatlon of Ihe demands of the Far
.. # mere' Alliance, which embody the true prln"y!
ciples of Democracy." [They have settled
what their ideas of Democracy are] 'Viid a
iTj~ surrender of the rights of the people to the
:ges- tlau.nclul kings or the oountry."
I say that If I thought Mr. Cleveland was
that kind of a man, that he was prostituting
po*e tije principles of my parly, that be had surrendered
himself and the party to which I
ing- belong to the financial kings of the country, 1
would not ask blm for an office. 1 do not see
how I could ask It of him. Therefore. 1 say,
to that is one reason why I have undertaken to
ifter recommend at this place some people for apdug
iralt ikby's question to hemphili,.
veil, Senator Jrby: Will you allow me to ask
Dr. one question ?
you. The Postmaster General : Certainly.
lain Mr. Hemphill: Certainly.
men Senator Irby: When the Alliance caucus
the was held In your district to nominate a man
to run as the Alliance candidate In the Dei
orratlc primaries, did you not go before th
caucus and ask its nomination and endon
Mr. Hemphill: I ?m very willing toansw
that question. I will state to the Senator th
I did no such thing. When the Alliance ca
cub, (which is a secret organization, whii
the gentleman well knows,) undertook to bj
who should be the nominee of the Democn
jc party In South Carolina, It did so withoi
my knowledge, so far as the nominating an
body Is concerned, because it Is a secret orga
lzation, and I am not a member of it. It m
at Rock Hill, and a leading Alllanceman, t!
lecturer ot that district, I think be Is. wro
me a letter in order to get my views uni
p-iblic questions to submit to the caucus'
Rock Hill. I thought then a9 I think no1
that if a man has anything to say, let hi
say it openly, where people can hear it ac
let him know what is said on the other side.
I went to Rock Hill Instead of sending a 11
ter. I did not ask to go there. I was invite
When I went there I stated that I did n
know whetner their purpose was to nomlna
anybody or no, but that I would accept i
nomination except that upon the platform
the Democratic party. That is what I state
It was stated by some who was at the caucu
as tbe gentleman's question seems to in
mate, that I bad done differently, and I d
nounced it In my own district as untrue; at
it is untrue.
Representative Strait: We can prove tba
Mr. Hemphill: It does not make any di
Senator Irby: One at a time.
Mr. Hemphill: Have you any other que
Senator Irby : As the chairman of tl
Democratic party of South Carolina, I wou
like to ask whether, after he was defeated I
the Democratic primaries, he did not wrl
me a letter In which he stated fhat he woo
be glad or proud?I have forgotten the won
of It?to go before the district and ndvoca
the election of Mr. Straltagalnst a Republics
Mr. Hemphill: I do not remember usli
the name of any particular party.
The Postmaster General: 1 think, perba]
It would be a little more orderly pot to lntf
rupt. Let each gentleman finish his arg
Senator Irby: I yield to your better J ud
ment. He did write me that letter.
Senator Butler: I object to Interruptions.
The Postmaster General: That you have
right to say.
Mr. Hemphill: Do not get excited.
The Postmaster General: I purposely askt
the gentleman to open, thinking perhapB yc
might desire to reserve yourself for the cloe
Senator Irby : I assure you that I will m
Interrupt him, if la not the pleasure ol tl
Postmaster General.
The Postmaster General: Perhaps we wl
get along more expeditiously the other way.
Mr. Hemphill: There is no use of gettit
excited. It is a question of polttlcal fait I
It Is not a personal matter. The gentleme
can not complain that their utterances ai
liven In the publlo print so that ihey may t
fudged by them.
I will state tbat I was Invited by the N
tlonal Committee to take part In the can
palgn In other Stales, but before leavln
iouth Carolina. I wrote a letter to him. f
chairman ot the executive committee of th
State, offering myself to the Democratic part
of South Carolina. Thai la what I did. Bi
as the Senator well knows, as we all knoi
there are a greut many people in South Ca
[>llna with different views as to what Demoi
racy Is, and the Postmaster General know
very well that Democraoy Is a term whto
covers a good deal more In South Carollc
than it does in other oountrles, simply b
uause the white people are Inthe mlnorlt;
and they must either stand together or t
swamped by the negroes. Thatls all thei
Is Id It. There are a great many people 1
the Democratic party aud a great many thinj
ire done in the name of that party, thi
would not be done in any other State for thi
That is all there is In this question, it seen;
to me; that is, there are Bome gentlemen hei
who believe that the sub-Treasury Is a -gre>
thing; they believe that other things of thi
kind, setting forth What they think is tru
Democracy, should be set up In this country
and become a part of the national Demo
racy. There are others of us who believe the
the true principles of Democracy are set fort
in the Chicago platform, and we are divide
upon-that question. If Mr. Cleveland wanl
to take up, or If his administration does, wit
those people who have denounced him, huv
nald that he has prostituted the principles <
the party, that be Is a tool of anybody upo
the top or the earth, he has a right to do it
but that does not say that l, as a citizen <
the State, do not have a right to exprenB m
views to blui or to any member of Ills cat
That is simply what I am here for?toaaj
that la my hODest opinion, the best that c?
be for this administration or for the part
that we represent is for Mr. Cleveland an
his cabinet to encourage tbo?e people who be
lieves In the principles of the Democracy the
we believe in, that we believe In. and fc
which we have fought in South Carolina. I d
not think that these gentlemen will notden
that I have a statement here published 1
the paper with reference to Dr. Strait, state
In a speech on June 11, at Lancaster, reporte
by a stenographer.
"The Alliance."?
Representative Strait: I would like to sa
that she is not a sworn stenographer.
Mr. Hemphill: It does not make any di
ference whether she Is sworn or not she Is a
honest woman.
"The Alliance has elected me as its stand
ard bearer, and I arn going to plant that flu
on Its bulwarks, aud if necessary, further."
That is Just the whole question. I have
great deal of other testimony here of varloi
kinds and descriptions, all going show tht
that the Idea that these gentlemen have <
Democracy Is a different Idea from what ?
Now, I want to say, General, that so far as
am concerned I have no objection In Ui
world to those gentleman recommending an
body for these appointments that they see fl
They have a right to recommend people, J
Is not a matter that belongs to Represents
tl ves to appoint postmasters. It is for the E:
ecutlye Department of this government,
does not belong to them any more than
does to me. Ills the duty of the PostmasU
General and his assistants to make these a|
polu tments, and if be choos s to take the re
ommendation of somebody else lhan th
man who thinks that they belong to him, h
has a right to do it; and if I make a recon
mendatlon here, as 1 have a rltfbt to do as
citizen, and It Is not followed, I shall notcon
Senator Irby: You do not claim It as a
ex-member of Congress?
Mr. Hemphill: Of course not; as a cltlzei
as u man wno by reason ot my long servlt
for the people of the district know what I ai
talking about wheu I make a recommei
datlon. Take my own town, for Instanc
Do you suppose that I am not an good a judj
ot who should bethe postmaster there as an;
body else? I know that there Is a wldo
there with six children, whom I was able I
keep In during the whole of Mr. HarrlRon
administration. I do not know anythln
about whom Dr. Strait recommends or un;
body else, but I say 1 am as good a Judge i
anybody as to that district. I say I do n<
believe Mr. Cleveland or bis cabinet will, upo
tbe recommendation of all the people outslc
of that district turn that poor woman ot
when she bas a right to stay there, and
have a right to recommend her, and I t>ha
recommend her. Theie are similar offices a
over the State.
Senator Irby : Is t hat customary ?
Mr.Hemphill; What customary ?
Senator Irby: For defeated Democrat cai
Mr. Butler : I object to that.
Senator Irby:'To make theae recommei
datlons ?
Mr. Hemphill: I do not care to answi
that. I have a right to recommend anybod
that I see fit, as I said. I am largely Intere*
ed in South Carolina. I tiave lived thei
all my life; my people have lived there lor
before me. I have a right to advocate thoi
principles thut I believe will be for tbe be
I ?-??? rtf tho *Htoln onH (ho nonnlp In I
These gentlemen have a right to do win
they think 1b bent. I do not complain of I
I do not say that simply because they ha|
pen to be chosen temporarily to represei
these districts; that does not put Into the
hands the power to say who shall be the c
lice holders In South Carolina. All that
ask U that this department and the other d
partments ol the government will take Inl
consideration the condition of South Carol
ua and Its people in determining the polk
which this administration will have to settl
upon, because the people of the country Jud|
the policy of an administration by the clai
of people who are appointed to represei
It. They know the government through tli
people with whom they come In contact, an
If Ihose who have denounced Dernocra<
have spoken of Its great leader as these pe
pie have spoken of hltn, are to come he
and say that Tom, Dick and Harry are to I
the representaMves of this Koverment !
South Carolina, it will discourage those wl
have been honestly in favor of the policy
the party and of the administration as it I
m- and will give them a black eye ; It will give
at them a set back and we will not be able to
le- make the flght we ought to makefor brlntrlng
back South ;Carolina to its true condition.
That is all there is in this tight.
cb ?
iy The Postmaster General; Before you pro,t.
ceed, let me say two things. These things
,t perhaps will eliminate some of the questions
yl under discussion. One Is with reterence to
n. this general subject of patrouiige and of the
et method of arriving at It. I have stated behe
fore, and stated quite speoiflcally to the delete
gallon from Missouri two weeks ago, the rule,
and I will make the same rule as to Sout h
at, Oarollna that Is made for Missouri and every
w other State. That Is this: The recommendam'
tion of the member of Congress, or tbe Senid
ator, as the case may be, Is not conclusive. It
is presumptively in favor of tbe gentleman
or applicant In whose favor it Is given. It Is
Id. not conclusive. The recommendation of a
ot member of Congress from Tennessee was
ie overruled this week, and an applicant not
30 endorsed by the member ot Congress was apof
pointed to the office. That was at Ripley,
d Tennessee. It Is not conclusive in any disi8*
trlctln the United States, and so far as tbe
til Postofflce Department is concerned, it will
e. not be, so long as I am here.
,d Mr. Hemphill: That Is ail we ask.
The Postmaster General: If It were, It
Lt, would amount to tbe legislative branch of
If! tbe government absorbing the executive
branch. Now, I do not know any theory
whereby the legislative branch has the right
>s. to absorb that. If they have, then they do
not need any officer here with discretion.
Then they would get along well enough bo
Jar as this brjrach of the government Is con,
cerned, with a clerical officer outside to rei
? cord the will of the legislative department of
J? the goverment. It would not ueed unybody
to exercise discretion.
rf The recommendation of the Democratic
member is presumptive, however, but back
of all this Is the desire on the part of the ad?
ministration to get at the will of the people
ln In every locality. That is the first thing.
That is where the thing will start in every
Instance. The administration does not claim
that it has a right to dispose of this patronage
as a personal perquisite, but that It holds it
? ln trust for the benefit of the Democratic
party of the nation, and that the Democratic
masses are to be recognized. In order to ascertain
who they are, the best evidence obtainable
from all quarters will be had and all
the light possibly thrown on the subject.
a That, as nearly and as clearly as I can stat9
it, is the position of this department, and, I
, think, generally of the administration on
this patronage question. That Is one subJ
The other subject is this: That I think it
rather a waste of time on the other side now
to pick up anybody here upon expressions
,, made in the heat of the canvass prior to the
nomination of the President. I think this is
rather a waste of time. I am not going to
hold tiny man accountable for anything he
said at that time, so lar us I am ooncerned;
ir I do not think that is quite fair. There are
H. a great many men, not ln your State nor in
your section of the country, but ln other secre
Hons of the conn try, who were Just as much
>e opposed to Cleveland and his nomination as
anybody in South Carolina could possibly
a- have been, yet who yielded -to the result of
o- the Chicago Convention, and the result later
ig on, and they arejust as good Democrats as
?s anybody else, and are entitled to decent, fair
o treatment and recognition.
y If these things are understood, I think we
it may go on wnn ine discussion 01 iuu umei
k Senator Builer: Mr. Postmaster General
' If you will pardon Just one moment, In a con.
versatlou you had with me, you announced
;? another rule whicb seemed to me to be a very
'p admirable one. It was In regard to not ap"
pointing postmasters from outside of the delivery
of the office.
J, The Postmaster General : We want a man
:: in the locality, and we want him endorsed
by the patrons of the office. I am Just about,
|a today or tomorrow, as soon as I can get to It,
I" to recommend the removal of a person now
In office because he has moved out of the
:: bailiwick. I shall Insist In every instance
that the people must be from the locality.
h Representative Strait: It has been charged
d and grossly charged, that we are not Demote
crate, and I am informed that it has been clrb
culuted all over this town, and is being, and
re all over our State. We went Into the convenJf
tlon In South Carolina, and Mr. Latimer Ina
trrviupfid the resolutions and I endorsed
<? them. At tbat time Mr. Cleveland was not
vominated, sir. We elected a solid delegay
tlon to represent the State of South Carolina.
>- which went to the Chicago Convention and
knocked at the door and were admitted.
f, How were they admitted? As Ocalaites? Not
n a word about It. They were admitted as
y Democrats. What does the word "Democrad
cy" mean? Does It not mean a rule by the
3- people, a government by the people, for the
it people, and of the people ? Had it not been
>r for the united action of Mr. Latimer and mylo
gelf, and a few others who stood In the
y breach o( the Third party, the Democracy ot
n South Carolina could never have elected an
d electoral ticket to represent Mr. Cleveland.
If Mr. Cleveland bad looked upon these resolutions
as obnoxious and hateful, he is too
great and too noble a man to have allowed
y these men to come in and to vote for him,
If It had been a test vote. He is too great and
r- too noble.
n Mr. Hemphill knows that he entered into
this contest with me as a Democrat. If he
! I Hiri nni. whv. he has dUicraced the name 01
g Democracy by allowing It to go undetected
In the State of South Carolina, when be
a could bave come out and said : "Gentlemen,
is thlB Is not Democracy: it Is Third part} Ism,
it it Is Ocalaism. I am a Democrat., and I do not
propose to be bound by any such obligations
re as 1 would have to the chairman of the Stale
I Now. these are facts, and when we were
ie upon the stump In South Carolina the quesy
tlon was repeatedly asked me. "Do you not
t. belong to the Third party ? ' J ftaid, "Oh, 110
t sir. my friend, 1 do not belong to any Third
i* party." We had a poor, miserable little
thing that sprang up there a few years axo,
it where a few men put their arms around the
It nigger, one arm In their arm and the other
sr in their back, and tried to vote them that
P- they might destroy the Democratic pariy.
c- Mr. Hemphill knows that they were no Demie
ocrats,or they would not have called upon
ie the nigger. We have never called upon
> them, and we never intended to, aud 1 Bland
a here today to say to you, with all respect,
a- that we are in the Democratic party, and we
endorsed those demands, and if we can't get
n them in the Democratic party they will never
be got by us. If that Is not Democracy, 1 do
? not know what you call it.
se Was Mr. Randall ruled from the Democratro
ic party because he wub a high tarlfl' man ?
>- No, he was not. It baB been charged that wc
e refused to go into the Democratic caucus
upon the great economic questions. Those
were the grounds. Upon all questions iuw
vulvlng the great Democratic party we are
0 with htm, and have declared so publicly in
interviews. But those are our rights, and we
ig reserve them to ourselves, Just as Mr. Kauy
dall did upon the tarill' question, Just as Mr.
is Calhoun did years ago. but when the great
Jt principles of the Democratic party are inn
volved, you will lind me aud my Irlends aud
le every oue who Is a reformer In Soulli C'aroll>t
ua standing In the breach driving back the
1 enemy.
' Tbeu the question lor us now is, Who Is the
li Democracy? What does It nteau ? It means
rule by the people, and If we can get enough
people into the Democratic party to capture
It, you do not ob|ect to that. The majority
a- rule. We are only advocating the principles
that we believe to be right. If we are In error
we will find It out soon enough.
* I tell you, sir, that my trlend can not Baikal
I ever voted any but the Democratic
er ticket. In 187(5, when the Democratic party
ly was in the hands of rogues, a set of thieves
't- aud robbers, I unfurled the banner and carre
rled it to the end. I never had been Im>K
peached. Do you not say there Is a illfl'er
?e ence between the Democratic views and Mr.
"t Cleveland's views?
t. Mr. Hemphill: I say
it Representative Strait: It Is for the parly
to say what ttie vieww or uie uiiny suuu uv,
P* aud not for Mr. Cleveland. The great party
>t is composed of three branches, each sepurate
If and distinct, and euch equal.
>f- We do not stand here begging. All we care
I for lu this world Is to be recognized here as
e- Democrats, nod not lo he stigmatized by
these men as Third partyltes, to go out lo the
H* world as Third partyltes and to try and de:y
stroy our usefulness be lore this body. I defy
le any man to say that I ever cast a vote other
than a Democratic vote, that I ever uttered
ss an expression other than the embodiment of
the p'atform which Mr. Cleveland accepted
>? as Democratic when he accepted those elecid
:y My friend says he did not appeal to the Alo
llance for support. He got that letter, and 1
r,! tell you, genllemeu, he was mighty quick In
>c getting there; he was there at the moment,
hi when called upon he went before that con*
10 Terence?It was not a convention to nominate,
of but merely to suggest a man to represent
s, those principles?and he spoke for nearly two |
boars; and I vae Informed?I think I
prove It?that wben he wound op he said
I am not endorsed by this body 1 will n<
very much hurt," or something of the ft
"feel very much hurt." It Is the plain
that he wanted to get those votes.
It has been charged that we were elects
Third partyltes. In my district I do
think there were but243of them. They <
not have elected me. I was elected upon
same platform as the electors. They end<
the whole platform,and when they wen
feated they come Into the caucus and
dorsed Grover Cleveland as the Democ
nominee, the nominee of the Democratic
ty for President of the United States.
Now, with these facts before you, I t
Mr. Cleveland Is too big a man to notice t
Let me tell you that we came here and
posed to meet these gentlemen, who ha
right to consult over this matter, and
bring this quarrel from South Carollnt
here. They refused to do any thing aj al
accept a proposition of any kind.
Mr. Hemphill; You do not mean Mr. J
stone and myself?
Representative Strait: Yon have not
to do with It, because you are out of It.
Mr. Hemphill; I will see about that.
Representative Strait: That has beet
cldea. As therepresentutlves of the maj<
of the Democrats of South Carolina, we I
Just as much right to know who these
are as anybody else, Mr. Hemphill or
body. We have nothing but a suggei
right. We are no fools. We did not c
here to get patronage. We came here to
after the interests of our people, to learn
ropes. When we found our name markei
Third partyltes. It was enough to stir
man who bad thrown himself into tbe br
and fought the enemy. I never utten
Third party speech other than the Ocala
mands. I never said a word about Mr. CI
land after I got on tbe stump, dlsrespectfi
did I?not a word. I see you charge me
standing upon South Carolina's platforr
tell you you deserted your mother's. I s
upon It. but I stood upon the National
form which was a compromise of all the |
forms of all the States upon which a g
party could meet and make a great b;
against tbe common enemy, and decide
ferences among surselves. I stand there
day, and I am not ashamed of It. I go
tber. I accept the State platform In <
that- Tbe Democratic platform does no
as far as we do. Now. If there Is anytl
wrong In that, I would like to know It
i-ourse, when we differ among ourselves.!
our duty to fight It out among ourselves
I advance an idea and you do not agree '
Its wisdom, It is yonr duty to defeat It,
not because we hold to certain tenets to
mailze us as Third partylted and try to
stroy our Influence. It is to blackmail
destroy our usefulness before these pe<
and we stand here to defend It, and we I
that you all will understand It, and to t
fellows who come here sueaklng around
vately, why, we say that they have no I
ness to do It, and we would not do likewli
we were in tbelr places.
Mr. Hemphill: I do not kuow that anj
luslon has been made to me, but I have
sneaked around. I iiave a perfect rlgh
make recommendations of people for 01
and I intend to do it. If It Is followed,
and good; If It is not, that does not make
difference. It has been stated here dU>LI
ly bow the matter about the Third p
came up from that blacklist. I bad not)
to do with and knew nothing about it, ai
am In no way responsible for it. L bave
said that be Is a Third partyite. I say
he is a Democrat, of a kind that, in my c
Ion ought not to control the patronag
South Carolina. I nave a right to suoli
opinion; I am one of his constituent
want to say right here that Dr. Strait
myself were both candidates. He beat m
votes out ol eight or ten thousahd?I do
know bow many were cast?so that he
not a very big and overwhelming majoril
tbe people at his back.
Representative Strait: I would like
Irnnar If hp rilri nnt vnf.fi for mp fit the
Mr. Hemphill: I did for the reason th
nald 1 would.
Representative Strait: III did not re
sent the Cleveland Democracy of South
olina, I would like to know why be voted
Mr. Hemphill: I voted for you In the
place, because, as you understand and i
have stated, there area great many peopli
South Carolina who recognize the fact, ai
am one of them, that we have to vote f<
great many people whom we do not thlnt
lor office, because we do not want to
swamped by negroes.
Mr. Johnstone: I do not know as I
worthy of me to notice any of this talk at
sneaking around, doing things underhi
and that sort of thing. It has been 8'
years since I arrived at the ago of manh
and I generally have tried to act my pari
dignity, In courtesy, and yet in courngi
conceive that I am yet a citizen of South
ollna, and I take It for granted that the (
8tltutlon of the United States and the (
stltutlon of the State mean what they
when they say that the government Is dl
ed Into three parts?the executive, the 1<
latlveand the Judicial; and take It for gr
ed that the claims on the part of any
of men that they have a right to
tate to the administration or alone to rec
mend to the administration whom It shall
point to office will not be recognized e
where by any other set of men.
Senator Irby: We never claimed that.
The Postmaster General: I do not th
that we need discuss that.
Mr. Johnstone : Then, as a private cltl
/V< pumlina T haua a flffhl (a
l/l UU U tti vniuuua, i uw ? u u i iguv vv * w
mend whom I please. I bave a right to
force it by bringing it to your attention
the attention ?.f the President: and whe
think I have lh>it right and determine U
I am going to do II.
Now, sir, logo a little further. There
thousands an J thousands of men In So
Carolina who d-> not co-operate with tbe
tion with which I have been co-operatl
and no honest and no truthful man can
cuse ibem of being Third party people,
addition to that, there are thousands
thousands of members of tbe Alllauco '
are as free from any lutentlon or purpose
bave all tbe time been as free from any
tention or purpose to ship the State lnl
Third party movement as I or you or a
body else. But where are those who b
tried to ship tbe State of South Carolina
the Third party? And I have been on
those who have attempted to prevent t
doing that.
Representative Strait: Please state 1
those men are.
Mr.Johnstone: I)r.Strait.
Representative Strait: We would llk(
have the facts. If It Is Mr. Latimer and
self, we deny it. as Infamously false.
Mr. Johnstone: I lake It that It is usf
to Indulge In vulgar display.
Representative Strait: lam not goln|
do It.
The Postmaster-General: Do notlnteri
the gentleman.
Representative Strait: We Just want tc
at. the thing square and straight.
The Posimuster-General: I think I
right in saying that you were not lnterru]
once. You will oblige me If you will
make any interruptions.
Mr. Johnstone: Nor will anything of i
kind prevent me from saying what I wan
Now, then, there are those who have
tempted to ship the people of South Caro
in the direction of a Third party, and I
that Mr. Latimer has been accused of it,
be is believed by large numbers of men t
guilty of it. That is all I say.
Why should I again seek to recomm
people for positlousln this department,
why should I ask you to make the larges
qulry as to who should be appointed to i
otllces In the district? I wilt tell you wl
do it. I have received letter after letter,
ter after letter, In which Mr. Latimer has t
charged with conferring and consulting ^
open and avowed and proclaimed Third pi
men in regard to who should beappoiute
postollices in that district. Not every ma
South Carolina who is chairman of the U
ocratic party In his county is free from
taint from Third partyism. un tne conn
I have lu these papers right here evident
the luet that the name or the chairman of
Democratic party in certain counties In S<
Carolina signed a call urging the followe;
Weaver to rally, and urging them to
against Cleveland and for Weaver, the ni
uee of the Omaha convention.
Senator Irby: state the counties please
Mr. Johnstone: They ure there. It
matter of opeu history in South Carolina;
erybody knows it. Have their reslgnat
been called for by the Slate commit
Have any steps been taken to oust them I
their positions by the State committee'
so, I hav<* never heard It. I know they t
been called upon in the newspapers alter I
went into the Weaver and Held movem
can to resign their positions of chairman of
:-JIf Democratic party in their counties and t!
it be refuse to do it. I know further that Mr. L
:lnd; mer has been charged with an intention
fact appoint to office?and there are hundreds i
thousands ef people who believe it?men v
;d a? signed the call for Weaver's friends to rs
not and elect them. This Is not mincing matl
iould much.
tb? Senator Irby: Mention the Instance.
>r8ed Mr. Johnstone: Were you in consul tat
3 de- with John T. Boggs, as to who should be
en- pointed postmasters in Pickens county ?
Representative Latimer: Do you wish
ninK answer?
hose Johnstone: Did not John T. Boggs s
the Weaver call In South Carolina?
pro- Representative Latimer: If you will al'
ve a |UP to answer that question
not The Postmaster General: Do yon desire
1 *JP answer?
' 10 Mr. Johnstone: I am perfectly wllllne.
The Postmaster General: Ills notaqu
OIin" tlou of willingness. Do you desire an 1
hln8 Mr. Johnstone : I do not object.
The Postmaster General: You had bet
( de_ go ahead with your argument.
men Mr. Johnstone: Further than that, be 1
anv. been openly charged, and It Is tally be)lev<
jtlve that be Intends to bring from great distant
,ome into different communities people who 1
look not the choice of the people of the locall
<he the community, the bailiwick, the delive
j a, a# I believe you technically call It, and 1
anV point them to office.
each The Postmaster General: I do not thl
id a you need to waste any time on that.
, ,ip_ Mr. Johnstone: It shows a reason, he
ev? ever,
ally The Postmaster General: That we cot
with not do. _
n, J Mr* joDDBione : euppose ms recommem
tood Lions were never criticised, were never
plat- spected, bow would It come toyourattentl
plat, that Uiat 1b the /act T You are not enquire
real ?r lhe fa?t fiow. It is necessary that tl
utile should be called to your attention, in or<
dif. that you may not violate your order and
) to- tenllon.
fUr. It is useless to mince matters. It is kno'
Wlth that almost the entire?mark theexpressl
t go ?almost the entire Third party element
hlDg South Carolina who did afterward vote
Of Weaver claimed the right to participate a
It in were allowed the right to participate in Sta
i If Congressional and county primaries. Thai
with a fact. In other words, the Third party m
and claimed the right to come inside the par
gttif- stay inside the party, to vote at the 8U
de- Democratic primary, the county prima
and and the Congressional primary, and then h
tpie they got all they wanted, to influence t
uope nomination so lar an they could In favor
tjese Weaver. Then they afterward, when the gi
pri eral election came off, bolted the Democra
uusi- party and voied for Weaver. There are a f
Be if honorable exceptions to it, and my lnforn
tlon is that Mr. Latimer in one of the con
ties has bad in consultation as an adviser a
the conferee, as to whom he should appoint
postofflces in the county, a mata whose bon
able instincts prompted him to say that
r al- bad no right, holding his conviction, to vi
not in the Democratic primary, and be refused
t to do it, and said that he was for Weaver a
(flee. Field, and believed in Omaba,and note
well cago.
:any Representative Latimer: I cab explt
Inct- that In a minute.
arty Mr. Johnstone: Is it not right that
bine should be called upon to explain it? T
m i Democratic party, mni oom 01 you gem
ot wen are acting as trustees of and as cos
that dlanof Its interests?I say, acting thus, 1:
ipln- not right that you.should be presented w:
e of an opportunity to ask him to explain this,
i an least, uuusual conduct of bis and susplclc
a. 1 conduct of bis? I thluk so. Certain it
and that I have called none of them Into my a
e 173 ference. Just look at the condition that I
not party would be in. Now, mark you, tb<
bad Populists, Weaverltes, Omaha people, w
y of voted that way and talked that way claim
the right to go in and officer the county,
voting In the Democratic primaries, wl
vot- men tbat they wanted. They claim the'rlg
to officer Congress with Representatives tl
they wanted. They claim the right to vote
the State primary as they wanted, and th<
i? 1 now, after bavlng gone and voted foi Wea>
and for Field and for Omaha, they ^lalm t
at I right to demand of Mr. Cleveland that
shall Dut Omaha men nppn duty and np
ipre- guard. For what purpose? At some fjtt
Car- day, in ail probability, to take the entire g
tor rlson In tbe Omaha movement with them.
It is openly charged and believed?and 11
first frank to say that I believe It?that Mr. La
*8 I mer has bad those men in conference wl
9 1? blm in several counties. There are sevei
ad I questions that might well be put to Mr. La
>r a mer. I wish It distinctly understood thai
' fit have stated elsewhere, and I state here nc
> be mat I am not acquainted with Mr. McLc
rln's record; I do nut know It. I do not d
v sume to speak about It or for It, for I do s
know It; but I do not hesitate to speak abo
t 1? Mr. Latimer's record?ndt a minute?for
aud, Senator Irby: Let us have It
ome Mr. Johnstone: I do know that,
ood, Representative Latimer: lam willing)
I in anybody to do tbat.
5, ] Mr. Johnstone : I have been speaking
Car- It; I am speaking of It.
Jon- Now, Mr. Postmaster General, It might
Jon- asked of Mr. Latimer, because it hup be
gay chnrged openly, in tbe public nrlnts, a
vid- charged by people not residents or South Ci
>gl8- ollna, did be not?and I ask tbe question?<
HDt- tbe adjournment of tbe 8t. Louis Con ventic
set remain in and take part in tbe mass meetl
die- that called tbe Omabaconvention? It b
:om- been obarged that he did.
lap- Senator Irby: He answers no.
toy. Representative Latimer: Empbatlcall
no. I defy any living man to say I did. Yi
do not make tbe direct charge. You a
Ink merely insinuating.
Mr. Johnstone: I was not there. If I hi
Izen been there. I would not have had a quarter
urn- a second's hesitation in proving it.
en- Representative Latimer: Now prove it.
and Mr. Johnstone: Did you not, on your i
in J turn from St. Louis, state to several perso
> it that you sympathized with and approved
' the Tbird parly movement and its ptatforn
are Representative Latimer: I never said su<
mtb a thine.
fac- Mr. Johnstone: Nor Its platform T
ne> Representative Latimer: The Alllan
ac- platform, or tDe piatiorm, air rosimasi
In General, tbat watt adopted at St. Liouis, was i
and moBt identical with the Alliance piatfor
tvho adopted at Ocala, Florida.
The Postmaster General: I think you hi
in<n better Just regard these questions as forms
speech and at the close of the speech answ
? ?l them.
Mr. Johnstone: Did you not Introduce
resolution into the caucus on the evening pi
ceding the meeting of the .State Convention
Columbia, proposing to cut loose from tl
who Democratic party and go into the Third p?
ty ? It Das been openly charged In the publ
prints, and It has remained undented.
! to Did you not state after your own comic
my- don and while Thomas E. Watson as a Thl
party man was running against J. C. C. Blat
(less as a Democrat and as the Democratic nou
nee, that you hoped that Watson would c
% to leat Black ? Now, that looks to me, If it w
said, as very curious talk for a champion
rupt Democracy.
Did you not publish a letter stating th
>get you held certain principles to be above tl
Democratic platform, and stating that yi
am WOUJU UOl oe uouuu uy a i;euiuu?uu raut
pted when It cauie In contact with these measuri
not I rather think that I cau say that he did i
that, for I know It; Jt was published over t
that signature In the publio prints o: South Cat
t to Una. Now, mark you, every bit of this
since Mr. Cleveland's nomination?a goi
i at- part of It since Mr. Cleveland's election.
Una Then I would ask the Postmaster Generi
say In pointed and direct terms, that permit i
anu flinching, no mental reservations and no e\
o be slons, to ask him the following questlo
This Is the question, and I hope you will a
swer it, and 1 hope, Mr. Postmaster Generi
that you will put it to him us I state it.so th
end 11 launot be evaded, it. cannot be answer
anti with mental reservations, and it cannot
tlD. quibbled with.
lost- Doyou bold the Democratic platform ado|
t,y J ed at Chicago as superior in Us binding foi
let- upon you to the platform or set of priuclpl
ieen of unj other parly, organization, or body ?
vlth Just think of it! The Democratic parly,
irly It Is worthy of existence, is bound In mora
^ to for the good of the American people, toe
n |n lorce Us principles In opposition to thepri
lem- ciples of other parties, and where it thin;
the other partiesare right, to adopt the prlnclpl
ary of those other parties that it conceives to
e to right and absorb them into its own platfori
the I118 bound to enforce, then,as I Bay, Its ov
>uth principles for the good of the public. la,
r8 0) him If he holds this platform (.uperlor in 1
- iiiiidinif lorce udou him to the platform or s
ami- 01 principles ot any other party, organlzath
or body. Anil let him auswer It. I adnt
. that he has a perfect right to bold the pli
j'8 a form principles of any oiner party, organla
ev. tlon or body superior to the Democratic pli
I011 k form. If lie will, but be has no right, when
(eeo does do It, to say that he can still enforce ai
roiii protect and administer the trustol the Den:
? j| cratlc party as he could the trust of this otti
lave party to which he owes allegiance hlgb
they than that to the Democratic party.
ents Now put it into practice. Suppose he is u
Ibe a man of singleness of heart lo b!a devotion
iey to Democracy. Suppose be is not cleao-heartat'"
ed in hts preference for Democracy over every
other political organization. Are yon not
bound to pnt in charge men who will stand
by the Democratic organization, and offleer
and man it for the purposes of the Democrat- 3g
era ic party? And if be in bis conscience believpH
that ihere is another and a better or- v
, gnnlzatlon or party than the Democratic par- >s
'?" ty, would not he he bound lo officer it acoordap"
ing to hla best Judgment?
Ail that I have said to yon, gentlemen. ! *
that your beat Judgment onght to be exercised
in this thing, for the benefit of the Democrat- ~
an to party, and not hia beet Judgment for the
benefit of something else than the Democrat- j
Ign ic party. That la all I have aald, and *111 in- - '
tend to say. Whom do yon wish to pot on -5
ow guard In South Carolina. Men wno will - -j
stand bv the Democratic party In preference " j
An to anything else. If he holdsahleneralleclance
to anything else than tbe Democratic
party he will seek to pot on guard men wbo
ies- will stand by that other thing, whatever it
an- may be, In preference to the Democratic party.
That 1b the whole laane in it, and It ean- :.<
not by any possibility be evaded.
ter Tbe laat question that I shall aak la tbe ier- *
entb one. Does be disapproveof and is be In
_ opposition to the platform that la adopted at
CK Omaha? .
388 Now, no evasions; nothing about it Does %
ed he disapprove of, and is be in opposition to A
ces tbe platlorm on wblcb Weaver ran in oppoai- .
>re tlon to Cleveland, tbe Omaha platform, tbe
y Third party platform, and opposed to tbe
ry Democratic platform? If he does notdlaap- '3
abl prove of that platform, where stands be? I _ .?<
do not care anything for verbal denials. I do
ate not mean to make any unpleasant suggestion Vj
in that remark. I do not care for private v ,w.
judgments. I want tbe facta to be pat before
the Jury, and to get the Jnry's Judgment.
.1^ That. In IL T am not rtarlnc what ha rails him
self. He baa a rlgbt to call blraself anything Ji
da- he wishes, to label himself what he pleaseo. to- :
]Q. change his name even; bat I will reeogxuso
on It. No matter what name he may change bis $
mt name to, I will still remember it Is A. C. Latlhi8
mer. .'
jer Now, I think I have stated this thing. I do ';4
1q. say that these counties that are aboat to have rl
people Imported Into tbem for the purpose of '
WD holding offices have the rlgbt to object to It
OD and have a right to protection. Wby, Mr.
In Postmaster Oeneral, did we not create a revofor
latlou in Booth Carolina upon this veiyprln- \ i
nd clple? Was not the revolution InSoatn Ontote
Una brought about for the purpose of estab1
is llshlng the rlgbt of localities to have their
eD own citizens irom the bailiwicks, the dellv- t 4
tv ery, so to speak: the right to choose their own
>te officers without importations: and Is not that
rv tbe primary principle of the Democrat!* . tv
/d faith ? I have not sought to call tbe names la ;
be this con/iectlon, for tbe reason tbat tbe belt
ot way to conduct a courteous discussion Is to
9Q. leave anything savoring of personalities oat
tic of it, ana I have not wanted to dlsoass it. I -:.-j
ew have not called anybody's name, and I do say
ia. tbat my information Is?and I solemnly be> :
in. lleve it to be true, or I would not suggest It , s|
Dd here?that Mr. Latimer has been in conference
to with men who stated tbat they ooald not go
or. Into the Democratic primaries in South Caro- - |
be Una because they were Third party men and
3te bad no rlgbt In taose primaries.
to I am Indebted to you for yoar ooarteoas
nd bearing. I hope I have not made any remark.
h?. tbat can be personally offensive to any oae? . p
I bavs not sought to do so. I have wanted to ' c
tin be plain and emphatlo, candid sad perfectly . W
fearless, but I have not wanted to woand*any
he ooay '8 sensiomues. mis is a ponucai owm; <1
he Mr. Latimer may have all the virtues which
to. I might possibly claim for myself, or anybody
o. else claim for himself. This la a political is- . ,.F
j lt sue. It Is a question whether men represent- >: ^
Itb lDK the Democratic party, and the Democra- , s
al tic party alone, with allegiance to it and hav- ;3s
ms lng no allegiance to any otber king, so to
i8 speak, or any other organization or country,
3Q. should do It. That lslt; that 1? the whole of
he ^t?
sae Senator Irby: Will you allow me to ask , i
bo him if be did not vote for Mr. Latimer?
l6d Mr. Johnstone: Mr. Postmaster General, .]
by before the candidates ran Id South Carotin*
Hb they signed a written pledge ibat if defeated
'bt lhey would vote for the nominee of tbe parial
ty. I ran in tbe primary and I was defeated
in by a far less vote than afterward went oat of
in the body of the Democracy and voted openly
|er tor Weaver. That is a fact Mark the exbe
presalon?I was defeated by a far less vote
be than afterward??
ar- Senator Irby : How mnch did he beat yon?
Mr. Johnstone: That is immaterial. . .^a
im Senator Irby : Did be not beat yon a thousitl
and votes ?
th Mr. Johnstone: I do not think he did. I
ral am satisfied be did not. I am satisfied that
tl- the reoords of your office will show that he
II did not. My recollection is it wax some TOO.
w, Representative Latimer: It was-over 900.
in- Mr. Johnstone: I cannot be distinct as to
re- that. ,
lot Senator Irby: How many Third party
ut votes were there in that district?
1 Mr. Johnstone: It would be an lmpoelblllty
for me to say. Bat I Bay I vu defeated by
a lees vote than was afterward cast for Weaver
by the people who had voted la the Demo- .
'or cratlc primaries.
Senator Irby: What do you base yoar calof
culallons on? , Mi.
Johnstone : I think that is an open sebe
cret In South Carolina. I honestly do. I
en think it 1b aa open secret,
ud Senator Irby: If you know It Is so. you ,
it- ought to know how ft Is so. On what do you
on base your calculatlonB ?
in, Mr. Johnstone: I base one calculation ; I
ng have uot time for the balauoe. I do not wish
as to weary any one. I base one calculatloo on
the fact that la one county alone there were
1,100 and some odd votes?1,100 votes In round
ly. numbers?cast In the general election, and
ou out of them nearly 900 were cast for Weaver.
,re In oue county alone that was the case.
Now, as I have stated, I have tried to make
ad ibis a political Issue, and I state again that It
of U firmly believed by a large number of men
that Mr. Latimer has been In sympathy with
the Third party movement, or the Weaver
re- movement.
OI \
j? Representative Latimer: While it Is on my
ch mlna, I want to say that Mr. Weaver was not
in that primary election at all. The question was
simply between Mr. Johnstone and myce
self In the primary, two Democrats. I beat
er him nearly a 1,000 votes in that primary. Mr.
&1- Weaver's election came on when Mr. Clpvem
land ran. The primary was to deolde be- >
tween Mr. Johnstone and 'me as to who
should be the candidate of the Democratic
party. Mr. Weaver was not known in it. He
UUJ u *. (ujpvt wu {^0KUjaai?iDi x OOJ ouij^uaMcally
thai I bave not reoommenaed a tingle
ld man who lived outside of tbe delivery.
01 The Postmaster General: I do not think
er we neCd io go into that.
be Representative Latimer: He charges that,
ir- He says that It has been charged against me,
lie and be emphasizes that. He says that I conferred
with Third partyites. I called a oona
ference In each of the counties to meet these
rd men who bad applied to me to recommend
sk tbem lor appointment. I bad not met a great
il> many of tbem. I went Into these counties ?
it- and asked tbem to meet me at the ooanly
nf seat, or some other place, so that I might get
of acquainted with them and other prominent
men in the cou u ties. I went in there and had
at tbem state their claims. I got to know them
be in that way. I asked the gentlemen as to
_;u moil J/iCiOl VUVCO VI Ul CiCI CUUQ U1 IUD ^/DUJJiO
ns In tbe localities. I aid not any vote. I aid
js. not give out any expression of opinion. If
do there were Third party inen la these meetings
lis they were not iuvlteil there as Third party
o- men. I seat out Invitations to certain men in
Ik the county seats who were Democrats, and lntxi
vlted them to attend these meetings, and I
notified the candidates wno had sent In their
il, applications to me, of the time and place of
no the meeting.
a- Mr. Johnstone: Was not Dr. James A.
n. Johns In your conference?
n- Representative .Latimer : He was.
il, Tiie Postmaster General: The same rule
at will-have to apply to you as to interruptions,
)l" Representative Latimer: He was there and
ce some other Republicans. There wasa Repubes
ijCan there wiio had u post otUce In Pickens
county. I told him I could recommend none
" but Democrats. He said the people wanted
,8' him : that he COUlll Bret m? ns larva a rial It lftn
u* as any Democrat who applied. I replied tbat
1 would not recommend any but Democrats
for office. I have not recommended a single
es xblrd partylte knowingly, ^'bese men who
De voted tbe Third party ticket In the mountalus
I do not know. I denounced It on the
Mr.Johnstone: Where?
Representative Latimer: In Pickens and
iel Oconee county, both.
Mr.Jobnstoue: Whereabouts?
111 Representative Latimer: In the court
bouse in Oconee.
Senator Irby: We do not object to h la askJ"
lng as many questions as he pleases.
The Postmaster General: I rather do.
Q" Representative Latimer: I say to you emlo*
phatically that no mortal man can face me
ier wllh these things. To prove that be has not
ier slated ?verythiug that he then stated, I can
call on Capt. Shell to prove that he said that I
l?l went to the Omaha convention.

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