Newspaper Page Text
ALEXANDRIA, VA., TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 14, 1910. PRICE 2 CENTS. Wcatncr PrdtwaBilifiaa ru'afffi-No. i?j EPi;port of the Special Committee to ui^xamine Into the Workings of the L:\lexandria Electric Light Company, o be Presented to the City Council fuesday Nigh* Ju.ie 14, 1910. ol. n egri I'"" rtl M' - the Office of the City Auditor, in r'M the city of Alexandria. Virginia. ",,; Tbnraday, lune 2, 1910, at 8 eor 0'C|ock P. M. ve - re the committee of the City ,?, Council of Alexandria, Virginia, . apporated to invesligate the pres enl sysiem of the linhting of the Btroata of the city. the condition of '''' the electric Btraei lamiis in the sald ??'' city and the operatlons of the Al? exandria Klectric Light Company ii in the said elty. i ,-s,.-. . i? L. B. ?' ,..>i - inedal t<- Kenneth C. RoyaP I nliu. :??? nr. -,i.t:.' . - ? *' M Ilill. Bag., and .lohn W. Harri ' son. Beq., membera of the said committee; K. C. Dunn, Ksq.. City i: Baaiaeer; L. S. Kirby, Esq., J. H. ip Idovd . Ksq . K. F. Priee, Ksq.. and r H. No.-l Oamar, Ksq., who appear ed to report the proceedings before ,, the <aid eoaamitti : Mr Spinks: I move that H. Noel Oariier I..- made the secretary of this 1 >inmittee la< k '-|,j., motion baving been duly see idn.o ed. was nnanimoaaly earrtod. Th. /he Chalrmaa: We are aaaem . | .ed h.-r^ under the autbority of the following ordinanoa of the City Coun? cil of Alexandria: "Reaoived: That the City Council aball appoint a apecial committee of Bve, two from the Doard of Alder men and three from the Common Council. to report to said boards, at its earlieat eonveniencea, what action ihc city shall take againal the Alex? andria Klectric IJgbl Company for not carrying out their contmcl with the city in re^ard to the an- light* now furniahed, which is not furnish ed accordlai to coatrael power; con tracl calls for 2.not) candle power. The said committee shall have power io einpioy experl electriciana, , ??' not to exeaed the aum of 1200.1 ' The pr.-sidents of said boards to r.p point the committee." aed) P. C. simnks. Adoptt-d hy the Common Council of Alexandria May 14, 1910. Action <>r Common Council con ctirred in hy the Hoard of Aldermen liaj -'>. l?la. And theraupoa L 8. Klrby, wit? neaa called before th.- said commit i.-.-. testified as follows: Th-- Chalrmaa: Mr. Klrby, i would llke io aak you if you think that iii,- Alexandria Klectric Light people are llving up to their contracl with the city, are they gtvtng the city whai it is paying tor? Mr. Klrby: Mo; 'hc contracl calla tor a 8,000 candle pow.-r lamp. and they at.- not rurntohlng that. fhe Chalrmaa: Can they furalah it? Mr. Klrby: i hardly think s<>. At the preaenl time it is u<>i termed any more candle power. There are no 2,000 candle pow.-r lampa, as it is called. h is termed watta and am peres. That was a n-'w law insii tuted Bome yeara ago. A' one time th.-v made lampa the satiic as the city ha.- bere and th.-v were deter i,iiu. .1 according to eaadle power Tln- city uaed to n?n lampa 'hat were meaaured in candle power, lo" they us,.,l then the dtvided arc and the lull arc, hut they don'l call them hy candle power now \ .:.""" candle power lamp would run aay about ntne and a half amp Th.- Chairman: If l remember the contracl thal the city had with Man devllle, ot Philadclphia, they were to takc down everything 'hat was con nected with the old planl and replace it Vou have worked for this com? pany as Buperintendenl until recent lv? Mr Kirby: Yea. sir. The Chairman: Have they done that? Mr Klrby: No, Bir. The Chairman: About how much ot 'he old wire is atill up? Mr Kirby: 1 would judge that there is about onc-third of the old arc wire that was owned hy the city that is iu uae on the preaenl arc lighl syatem, hut not on the hlgh voltage lines There is not a graal deal on tboae lines. I Judge 'hat th.-v are ualng now about on.--third of the old wire thal was nsed l.y the city. The Chairman: ls not that wire iu verj bad condition? Mr Kirby: lt is. Thc Chairman: The wire woni glve 'li-- proper aervice where the Inaulatlon is off. Thal Intarferea with it to aome extent, doea it? Mr. Kirby : That don'l interfere much Tlu- electric light company wovld he the loser there. Hut in tbe wires were to fail they would t"- more dangerona than If they were Inaulated, of courae. The Chairman. ls there not a loi of bare ware through theae three. so thal wh.-re the Inaulatlon is off it is bound to canae trouble when it rains? Mr Kirby: Prequently you tre.-s baraiag from lt. Laaa than a week ago, In front of Mr. Clapdore a. and ni tront of Harriagtoa'a atable, too, they buraed the treea Th.- Chairman: That could I"' ivin.ilie.l to aome extent if the wires were properlj Inaulated? Mr Kirl.v : If they used tree in sulators. they BWlng through the They can gel them. of courae. Th< Chairman: Where the Inau? latlon is off the wire- and the cur niie voltage r.-ach th.- lampa as where there is Inaulatlon? Mr. Kirby: Buppoaed to ? amperea regiater the eur comisg back, not ihe outgolng rent. in aome stations the) reg the currenl golng out, and com ing back. too. but it is the rule m of them to reeisier the eurren wh.-n it eonwa back. becaui courae if vou regist.-r seven cominL in \,..i niust have sev.n golng out. The Chairman: l><> yon remember Mr Betta the expcrt who ma examiaatioa of the planl a ahori while after it was Inatalled, and that th.- company than adrnowledged th it th- lampa ware not 8.000 candle pow.r lampa, hut they said they were goinn to take them down and laatal new ones DM they do that? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. To the best of mv knowledge, ttfty lamps were gottea in by Mr. Mandcville. They pnt them up on King Street, most of them. They were aerea aaapere lamps. Thafs where Mr. Hetts made his complalaL The CbBlrman: As a memlicr of tbe gas light eommittee. i remember a letter read before tbe eommittee. Btating thal they were golng to put in these lamps, and asking the eom? mittee to sign a letter. that it would not register any more complaints if ?v put them in, Mr. Kirby: wo, tbey were nol put in. Mr. Darrah put in some coils here, bul tbej were S'a" amperea. They ordered extra COlla and lamps for King Street, and my information is that Mr. Betta took f..r granted that all the lamps l.ad been ehanged 10 the s.-v.-n amphere type, and he so notifled the eommittee and then the company Btopped paylng rebates. One-thlrd of the lamps they have now Btlll retain the old coils. They bave never been ehanged. The (hairman: 1 remember onee that I had a conversation with you and you told me that they were going to put in the new type Westinghouse Electric Company lamp. Did tbey do it? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. They put in one lamp that hangs at the corner of Duke and Washington Streets. That lamp don't give any tronble. Tbat has I.n up for three years and it has only been out onee. That was the kind of lamp that Mr. Mclver was going to adopt. The ('hairman: If this company had lived up to what tbey said, would we not bave hetter light today? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir: sure. lf they had adopted that lamp they would most undoubtedly. The ('hairman: But this present company did not buy any lamps? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. They are burning the lamps, the same ones that were here when they came here, with the exception of fifteen on King Street. and there are some others. The reet of the lamps?say about one-thlrd of the lamps in uee -are still the same that they found here, They have hoosted up the current, but the lamps wont atand it. The BOCCeaa that I made of the liylns while I was there was in eutting down the amperea and trlmming the lower carbon down. W<- had an expert here to look into the trouhle. and he said be eould not do anything Then 1 had tlie station eut down the eur rent, and after that I had no troulde. The Commlttee on LIghta knowa that 1 had one lamp out during the year from March 30tb to Mareh SOtb, and Mr. Ubler said that was a very good record. I remember tbat he said you had l.'-tter have a tlckel made oul and framed. Bul tbal re suit waa from eutting down the cur? rent. You have to do that or tbe lamps wont stand it. The Chalrman: Th.-s.- people are extendlng their pole llnea all through Braddock Helghta and D.-l Ray, and through St. Kltno and down to Fort llunt and Fort Waahington. Can they do that with the power they have and glve the eity what they bave agreed '<? glve It! Mr. Kirby: Yes, I think they ean. They have practlcally '.me k. w. That turblne of theira is good for 700 k. w . an.l i Judge they are running not more than 200 k. w. It may be 100 in wlnter. They have two en ginea thal are good for 150 each to fall back on. They have ample power. The Chairman: ls thal new tur? blne tljat tlu-y have put in there -ip to .late? Mr. Kirby: Yea, sir. The Chalrman: You think tbat the tronble is that the city is aol properly wired and that ihe lamps are not the proper lamps? Mr. Kirby: Of eourse. The wir Ing doiit affect tbe light. to a certain eztent. The maln point is in the lampe. Mr. Harrison: Is tbere any lamp maaufactured thal will give a light known as :'..I candle power. or what they claim was 2,000 candle power lamps at the time they made thi.- COntrad with the city? Mr. Kirby: I don't think so. In the tirst place they doiit terrn it can? dle power. They uae amperea and voltage. Mr. Harrison: At the time they made the eontraet they made it for a 2,000 candle power lamp. ls there any lamp that will furnish that power? Mr. Kirby: I don't think there is. You ean tell what the ampere abould he. I think seveii and one-half am j.eres on A. ('. They run high on IV ('. On the old lamps th.-y run di vided are and f'ull are. Mr. Harrison: ls then- any lamp they ean uae tbat will give a ligtit equivalenl to tbe light ealled for her.- in this eontraet? Mr. Kirby: Not an inclosed are: I don't think so. Mr. Harrison: They claim they are givlng more light by this Mr Kirby (Interrnptlng): That'a tbe queation. The best thing to have done would t..- io take one of those lamps down and have it tested for its wattaj Mr. Spinka: Can't we teal each one of those lamps with a macblne? Mr. Kirby: Yes. you ean get a watt meter, or \oltus'>- meter. Put to bia down ayatematically* to do it right, it would be beal to bave it l. I was talklng to the South Kastern Tariff Aaaoclation man .. fea minutea ago. an.l he aaya tbat in places where theae questlona come up that'a the tirst thing they do; bave the lamp taken down aud have it i Then they have data to work on. Mr. Spinka: What 1 meant was ld w.- nol teal those ouraeh 1 that be a good te.-'0 Mr Kirby: Yea; tbe only teal you ake would be for the wattage ol the mp. Mr. Spinka: That would give it to ? that we took it. say to nlghi tnorrow night. or any nlghl shortage was? Mr. Kirbj Yes. sir. Mr. Spinks: The voltage at the plant could be raised, could lt? Mr. Kirby: The ampere at th. plant could be raised and lowered at ,vill. It has been done. They noti? fled the station when this question came up before the eommittee to l.oost the amperage, and they are doing it now. Mr. Spink9: We are gettlng BBYBn amperea now? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. But tbeee lamps wont stand that. Mr. Hill: What is the dlfference between the ampere that they are furnishing the city today?the am perea I mean. How many amperes i tbe city getting today? Mr Kirby: Seven. Mr. Hill: What is tbe average? Mr. Kirby: Six and six-tenths. Mr. Hill: That'a how many kilo watts? Mr Kirby: No; that in candle pow.r, I don't know how many can? dle power, exactly; about 900 candle power. Mr. Hill: According to the eon? traet the city has with this eompany, we ai.- short l.ioo candle power? Mr. Kirby: Yes. sir. Mr. Harrison: What candle power were the old lamps? Mr. Kirby: A littie over 1,200. The Chalrman: When we had those old lamps and they were in good trlm, what were the amperes? Mr. Kirby: I don't know that ex actlv. I think they were about 1,200 candlfl power. They were t?sted by Washington people. I think they were tested by Charles Pardo. The Chairman: Is the city of Washington getting better light than the city of Alexandria? Mr. Kirby: I have been ln their station, but I have never noticed what current they run. I have heard that they run seven and one-half on A. C. lamps. I think they run higher on the are. They have the enclosed are over there. They must be run ning higher over there, because the> Kive better light. I could get that information from the Washington office. The Chalrman: The Potomac peo? ple are furnishing a numher of small llgbta over there. Is the candle pow? er or ampere of those not the same as the are light?that frosted light, I mean?the flaming are light. Mr. Kirby (interrupting): That's only the eommercial light. They are Tungsen lamps. The (hairman: That's a higher candle power than any other made? Mr. Kirby: Yes, slr. The ('hairman: Between 15 and lo, is it? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir That's tbe same as they have in Del Ray. The Chairman: That's almost a better light than some of our are lighta, is it not? Mr. Kirby: I don't think so. Mr. Spinks: Here is a statement made hy Mr. Hrumbaek, one of the membera of the eommittee on Light. He Btated that he had been reliably Informed that the city was not get? ting more than Sun to 1,200 candle power, instead of 2.000 as contracted for. That was a couple of week before thia reaolution had been paae ed. Do you think that is a faet ? Mr. Kirby: Yea, sir. I don't think they get over 000. Mr. Spinks: How long bave you been connected witb the electric light? ing bnalnesa? Mr. Kirby: A littie more than twenty-two yeara. Mr. Spinks: You know our eon tracl with the city of Alexandria. There is no BUCfa wi.nl as ampere or wattage i wanl to read this eon? traet. lt aaya (readlng): "All of which are li^hts so furnished ahall h.- of th.- lateal type Incloaed alter nating are light of 2,000 candle pow? er." ls there any sueli thing as an alternatlng are light of 2.*. candle power? Mr. Kirby: Not to my knowledge. Mr. Spinks: Don't you think that when Mr. Mandeville entered Into this eontraet he knew that? Mr. Kirby: A man up on the bus Inesa as he is. i Imaglne would be familiar enough with it to know that. Mr. Spinks: I want you to look at thi- book publiahed by B. J. Houeton and \ B. CanalUe. Would you take that as an authority on eleetricity? Mr. Kirby: Sure. Mr. Lloyd: That's an authority up to the time that book was pub llshed. Mr. Spinks: That is one of the Btandarda, is it? Mr. Kirby: Yes. sir. I'p to that date. That is in 1906. Of course there are later teal hooks. Mr. Spinks: The point I want is this: thal the City Council of Alex? andria entered into a eontraet with Mandeville and Company in good falth, none of us being electricians. Th.y came in here and agreed to give us a two thousand candle power light. My point is this: this plant run by theae people givrs us about 1,100 candle power leaa than we pay for. Mr. Kirby: A 2.000 candle power lamp of the ordinary type would r> qulre nearly ten amperea. lt would requlre nearly ten amperea to glve that. Are lamps are rommonly rat.-d :,; 800, 1,200 and 2,000 candle power. Mr. Spinks: What candle power lamp WB8 put here. Was it 2,000? Mr. Kirby: No. sir. It was not. Mr. Spink-: II was not the light that w.- contracted for? Mr. Kirby: No. sir. The ordinary candle power are lamps are coiiimon Iv rated at 000, 1,200 and 2,000 can? dle power a 1.2011 eaadle pow.r lamp takes about 0'4 amperes and a 2,000 candle powt r lamp takes about ?,.lL. amperes. Mr. Spinks: And instead of giving us 2,000 candle power lamps, they gave ii- 'his 64 ampere lamp Thal waa 'he origlnal Mr. l.ioyd 1 interrupting 1: It would have been a physieal Imp billty for Mandeville to have given a ?-', ampere lamp. one part ..1 the eontraet diaputee the other. Mr Spinks: ln this eontraet we entered into with Mandeville and Company, we entered in'.. a eontraet which waa to furnish us 2.000 candle power alternatlng lamp- instead of coming to the City Council of Alex? andria and telling us that there waa 110 such thing as that on the market they proceed to instal 6.6 ampere lampa This was the orlginal light put up. Afterwards there l reaolution in Council. It was refer red to the Commlttee on Streets, and that eommittee employed Mr. Betts, an expert, and I think Professor of eleetricity at George Washington I'n Iveralty, and he stated that these lights were not up to the condltlonal requlramanta of the contraet And I think the city pald Mr. Betta J 190.00 for his s.-rvices. Afterwards the Al? exandria Klectric Light Company em ployed Mr. Betts as a consulting en glaeer, and he recommended that they purehase lifty 7 Vi ampere lights. Mr. Kirby: Yes, slr. They put up fiftv 7 ampere coils, and put extra , ,,ii- ho the old lamps, but there are about one-third of the lamps in the city now that were the old original lamps. Mr. Spinks: Th? city has b.-.-n paying ever since this plant was in? atalled ln 1906 for 2.000 candle pow? er lamps and we have not gotten them yet. The Chairman: Here Is one thing about this. This city awarded the franchiso for thirty years on the con? dition that this company provide 2, 000 candle power lamps, and it pro vldes that the lamps shall be enelos ed alternating arc lamps of the latest tvpe and of 2.000 candle power. Mr. Klrby: You have not any in vestigatlng to do so far aa I see ex eapl 'o see If they are doing It. Mr. Spinks: From the time this plant was flrst Inatalled ?this Alex? andria Klectric plant?until this time, more than a third of those lamps have been 6.6 amperea? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: And the best portion of the time they were all 6.6 am? pere lamps? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Those new lights were installed just a few montha before Darrah went away. 1 was there about sixteen months. That's about two years ago they were put in. Mr. Dunn: They were installed Immedataly after Betts' report? about slx weeks or two months. Mr. Spinks: I want to ask you this: Even though this company has installed 7 Ms ampere lights. say fifty, have we been gettlng 7 \$ ampere current through all the lights, or even through those lamps? Mr. Kirby: Not during the time that I was there? Mr. Spinks: These lights were all oonected with the 6.6 ampere lamps? Mr. Kirby: Yes, slr. Mr. Spinks: Would Jt be possible to force ~Vi ampere current through them wlthout burning up the 6.6 am? pere lights? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. Instead of running thf maximum power of light you have to run the mihimum cnr rent. Mr. Spinks: You have got to run ampereage according to the lowest lamps?that is, according to the 6.6 lamps? Mr. Kirhv: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Kven if we had 9 V4 ampere lights ln some places and 6.6 in other places, you could not get the best results from those lamps wlthout burning up the 6.6 lamps? Mr. Kirby: That's right. That's the trouble now. They are burning those lamps out. Mr. Spinks: Out of B6 lamps that are burning. there have been thirty six that have never com.- up to more than ?'..!'. amperea? Mr. Kirby: Practically so. b.-cause they still r.-tain the old coils. And that contraet providea that they shall I,,. the latest type of enclosi-d lamps and they are not. and w.-re not when they were put in. b.-cause th.- F..n Wayne lamp is not recogalxed as be? ing a first claaa lamp. You will finil very few in any of the eitiea. Mr. Spinks: Wlo-n thal light at Duke and Waahington Stre.-ts was put up. you were then with ihe com? pany? Mr. Kirby: Yes. sir. Mr. Spinks: What is auppoeed '<> be the amperage or thal lamp? Mr. Kirby: Beveu and one-half. Mr. Spinks: That is an improved lamp? Mr. Kirby: That's about th:- b.-^' lamp on th mark'-t. Mr. Spinks: You would DOi that even that was a 8,000 candle power lamp? Mr. Kirby: No. sir. Mr. Spinks: That's the only lamp OUl of all the S6 in Alexandria that is an improved lamp? Mr. Kirhv: The lamp. I judge. is the equlvalant of a 2,000 candle power lamp, and is as good a lamp as vou could get on an A. C. current; it is of the latest type of Westing house lamps. Mr. Spinks: Ware you coneeted with the city of Alexandria when this franehise was sold? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Vo i were running the el.-ctric plant here? Mr Kirby: Yes sir Mr. Spinks: Under the terms of our contraet and Bgreemenl we had, the old lights were not to he shut off until the new light- w.-re turned on? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: The city was to light the stre.-ts until the new company had its plant equipped and in run? ning order'.' Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Tell us why the cur? rent was COt off of the city lights be? fore it was turned on the Alexandria Electric Company lights. Mr. Kirby: Mr. I'hb-r gave us or ders on Wednesday evening to have our plant in readiness. We were golng to run. We wanted to com pare tln- lights. Mr. Darrah went to work after Mr. I'hb-r no'itied him not to CUl our circuits. h<- deliber ately wenl to work and cul his cir? cuits in on our own wires and both circuits were open. and when it came time for me to put on the cur i.-nt the circuit had been CUt in on by th'- n.-w plant. Mr. Spinks: Did they use all of the old wire at that time? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir, tor the flrst two or three montba; all exbapt some on King Street, but the Wilkes Street an.i Ho- Quean Btreel rirculta w.-re old wire. Mr. Spinks: What is th" condi? tion of that old wire? Mr. Kirby: Very bad. Mr. spinks: Dangeroua, is it? Mr. Kirby: So much so that the Inapector of ihe Bouth-Baatern Tariff lation aome months ago said that it had to be taken down The Chairman: Baneclally where it was croaaing atraataf Mr. Kirby: Yes. sir, and our pres ent lamp spans that the city ownad, outside of about Bve or six. mayl.. tan, are still the same lamp spans that were there when the city owned th.- plant. A great many of those are in bad condition. Mr. Hill: If you had this contraet with the Alexandria Electric Com? pany. don't you think that you would be entitled to a rebate from the time they started up to the present time on account. of not getting the current your eontraet calls for? Mr. Kirby: I'ndoubtedly. Tbe Chairman: If you will take thia agreement that the city entered into?lt is only a question of whether they are llving up to what they agreed. Mr. Kirby: You will have to have B t> st made, and see Just what your aetual candle power is. It would be to take one lamp off the street and have It tested. Mr. Hill: Don't you know that theee lamps are only 900 candle power? Mr. Kirby: No, to the best of my knowledge and experience, I judge they are. Mr. Hill: Do you think it exceeds 1.200? Mr. Kirby: I do not. It would not with the 6.6 amperes. and I don't tblnk it would now with the voltage ed up. One of these lamps were taken to Washington and tested and Mr Chler told me that Mr. Betts said that it tested a littie over 900. That was about three or four years ago. Up to that time i think our books will show that the Alexandria Electric Company had been paying the city a rebate. When Mr. Betta made lils report he reported that it was all right now that the lamps had been ehanged, and then the rebates were atopped. Mr. Spinks: You say those lights were not ehanged. Were they not ehanged back again? Mr. Kirby: Not to my knowledge. 1 saw the way bills, and there was a requlsition sent in for flfty-seven am? pere lamps. Mr. Darrah takes down I think about flfteen lights on King Street, and put up new lamps and the retnalnder were placed at the most important eorners, that is as far as they went. The rest of the lamps are st ill old lamps. Mr. Harrison: If that ls a fact, why is it that the lamps that are on King Street that are supposed to be tne best. give the poorest light?that is they seem to. Mr. Kirby: There are three clr cuits. The lamps are divided up on three rircuits. All three of those cir cuits are supposed to get the same amount of current. It ls absolutely impossible to get a steady current in are lights, but that don't show in are lights like it does in incandesc.'iit lights, and they don't show on the light. Mr. Harrison: I don't know that these lamps really give less light, but the lights on the dark streets look more bright. >lr. Kirby: 1 suppose that is be cause they are dark. The stores help to light up King Street. Mr. Harison: I have noticed that those lamps will often be burning at one time very brightly, and then in two or three minutes the light goes down until if is very dark, and then it bums up again. Mr. Kirby: That is from the feed ing of the carbon. The lower earbon is stutionary. The top earbon is fix ed in a earbon holder, whieh slides down from the top. it will throw up rhe carbon and they will fall down too close. You can ln-ar them hiss. If ls because the are is too short. They are too close tOgethef Pretty soon the ooll will pull up the carbon again. and the light geta bright again. The earlmns an- anywhere from one-half to three quartera of an Ineh apart. lt comes down to food and then goes back again. That rauses a pulsation in the VOltBge. On.- or two lamps like that will affeet all the otbera on the drcnt. That variatioi in the feedlBg is almost impossible to Btop. I think your best poltcy would ii.- to take on.- of tbeae lampa down and have it tested. t?n * - .it ihe old Oligiaal l.l lamps?not th.- one that has 7 ampere coils in it. Mr. Spinks: Here's the tvport. and rarlona membera of tba Commit :.-.- on light have expressed them Belvea a- dleaatlafled with the light furnlahed by the street are Lampa. ln that eonnection I would state that the eontraet with the company says that the lights shall be of the latest type, inclosed alternating are lamps of 1,000 candle pow-.-r. Mr. Kirby were these lamps ihe latest type? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. Mr. Spinks: There was at that tima T1^ ampere lamps on the mar kef? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. There were four standard lamps at that time. I pn :??!? tbe* Weatlngbonaa lamp my S.-lf. Mr. Spinks: Here is part of Mr. Betta* report coneernlng the lighting of streets. He states that tbe posi tlon of the city of Alexandria is ex BCtly the same as that at Colorado Springs. From this it will be Been that the lamps now in use an- not equlvalenl to the ao-ealled 2,000 ean dle pow.-r Lampa. If you are sati? fied to retain the lamps now in use, a reduction shoudd be made for them, and they have you say at this time about one-thlrd of those old lamps ln use? Mr. Kirby: Yes, slr. Mr. Spinks: We are getting about the same light we got from the old 6.6 ampere lamps? Mr. Kirby: The best proof of that is ibat the Alexandria Electric Com pan at one time did pay rebates "? th" city. Mr. Spinks: At on.- time they did. that was before the 7 *? ampere lights installed. In that report Mr. Bettfl don't claim that 7*K ampere lampa are efjuivalent to lamps of 2.H00 candle power. Mr. Kirby: No, sir. Mr. Spinks: He refers to this Colorado Springs ease decision. What kind of lamp dld they have' Was ame kind we have? Mr. Kirby: I don't know. It was practlcally the same case as thi- tba ?'. I irado Sprine case against the iiy dro Electric Company. I think they were 1.6 lampa. Mr. Spinks: Colorado Springs was : from claimlBgrebates.aad the experts on both aldea unanimotis lv agreed that on the date of the granting of this franchise on Sepfem t.er g, 1698, there was no nneb thing in ,-\ :i BK lamp !'>r lighting purposes of 2,000 eandle power. and the testirnony of al! tbe ezperta abowa that th-re wa- only on- kind of lamp. and that was 6.6 ampei Mr. Kirbv: That was the old kind they had here. That was then the old term. "candle-power." They evi dehlly recognized the fact that Man? deville did not glve 2,000 candle power because they paid rebates. Mr. Spinks: You have been con nected with the Alexandria Electric Compnay and with Alexandria city, and that is the point we want to get at. whether the Alexandria Electric Company still has in service some of the old original lights. Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: These lights can'r come up to the requirements of this contraet? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. You don't get 2,oou candle power on an A C lamp at 7 Va amperes and you can't get in on |.| amperes. Mr. Spinks: Would it not be im possible to get 7 Vs amperes on this system and keep the lamps running? Mr. Kirby: You could get it. hut the lights would not stand it. Tha.V the trouble I had a year ago, and it burned the lamps out; burned out the lampa at King and Fairfax, at King and Pitt, at King and Washing? ton. at St. Asaph and Prince. All of them have gone up from the exces si\.- current. I don't know how many. They will burn the light up and burn the gas cap off. An expert at Fort Wayne said that he did not know what the trouble was, and I aanl one to Chicago for a test to see what was the matter, and I have a letter from them showing that there was nothing in the carbon to eauae lt. They might have written that to hold up their end, but I don't be? lieve they did. I knew them for many years, and the manufacturers said thal they had the same trouble at Atlantlc City. Mr. Hill: If the Alexandria I.ight Company would spend the money they could have a 2,000 candle power lamp. could they not? Mr. Kirby: I don't think they could. What do you think. Mr. Lloyd? Mr. Lloyd : I don' think they could. D "would requlre new equip ment. The term ts commercially 8,000 candle power, really it is not. There is a wide variance of candle power in it. The lamps don't get the 7 Vs amperes and of course they can't give the light. Mr. Spinks: Even admitting that the aeven and one-half amperes light was the 1,000 candle power lamp, they would have to force that amount of current through the lamp to get that candle power? Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Mr. Lloyd. do you think it would be poaalble with the present system we have here to get a 7 Vs ampere current through these lights to keep them lighted; provided that more than one-third of these lights are 6.6 ampere lights? Mr. Lloyd: No, sir, 1 don't thlnk so. If the coils are not changed the lamps would gradually burn out. but there is B wide variance in the con? traet. At one place it Btatea 2,000 candle power, and other states that it is to be inclosed arc lamps of alter nating curent of the latest type. That would he a 7 Vs ampere light, which would glve the so-called 2,000 candle power light. If you eent one of thoae lamps to the proper place and had it tesied they would get the ac tual candle power. If you sent them a 6.6 ampere lamp they would put thal amount of current through that lamp, and tell you what the candle power was. The Chalrmaa: Thay would not attempi to force a 7 Vs ampere cur? rent through there? Mr. Lloyd: No. sir. The old lamp threw Its light down due to the burn Ing of the carbon. The A. C. lamps glve greater power than the old lamps. The Chairman: The old lamps had to ba trimmed every day? Mr. Lloyd: Y'-s, sir. The Chairman: These run for three days? Mr. Lloyd: About 100 hours. Mr. Harriaon: Some of the globea seem to be dark like they are amoked. Mr. Kirby: That Ia due to' the deposit on the cap. it is formed b) the gaaea You can make those capa clean agatn. When I weni oul to the Southern there was a whole lot of them oul there and they are worae than theae, becauee thay have that smoke out there, and I have had them chaned and they are all right now. The Chairman: What are tboae lamps out there on the Southern? Mr. Kirby: They run on 110 volts. They are the same as the lamps in irotit of th.- Btorea. The Chairman: They an- 'II- aaflM as the lamps in I'otomac Yards? Mr. Kirby: No. sir, they are 220 lamps. These lamps get about 80 volts across the arc. theae lamps in town. Mr. Lloyd: That voltage appears to be excessive. Mr. Klrby: Lei BM see now. I think there is only 10 volts across tln- arc I think I am wrong. Forty volts across the arc is right. That would make 400 watts, a nominal 1,2uo candle power. Mr. Spinks: Then these lamps of 7 Vs ampere with the present voltage going through it would give 1,200 candle power? Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir: I should say so. The old term used to be candle power. D is not the present method of determining what the lamp dOM Mr. spinks: Thai dependa on the voltage going through the lamp and the ampere? Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir: the result is ihe watt. Mr. Spinks: Well, the voltage at 10 with : >L. amperea would give how many watts. you say'.' Mr. Lloyd: About three hundred watts. Mr. Spinks: What would that be equlvalent to in candle power. Mr. Lloyd: I should My 900. The only actual method would be to make a phonometer teet. Mr. Spinks: With a l? volt cur? rent and a 7 Vs amp'-r.- lamp you thlnk thal the current coing through thal lamp is about 300 watts. and Whal is that equivalent to in C power? Mr. Lloyd: About 100, bul thal Ia the so-called 1,000 candle power lamp. I think that report of the hydroplant will atate thal tbe "': ampere Incloaed arc lamp is the lat pe and glvaa better llluminatlon than tbe llaming arc that glvaa about ii.- power, but of courae thal would b" prohlbitive. Mr. Hill: Mr. Lloyd, does the Al? exandria Klectric Company save any thing batwaaa Uie di-vrence in the juif on 6.6 lights and 7 Vs ? Mr. Lloyd: Practically no. Mr. Spinks: It's on account of the outside equipmew? Mr. Lloyd: No, sir; there would be no saving on that. You would have to have a new set of lamps at about $16 or $18 each. Mr. Kirby: The whole question seems to narrow down to the fact that the city has a eontraet with th. -e people to furntah it two thous ?iikI candl" power light and they are not furnishing it. I suggest that the eommittee have one of those lamps with the 6.6 coils in it tested at the bareau of standards. Then let the Alexandria Electric Light Company rebate the city, as they have done previous to this. Mr. Hill: What in your opinim ought the city get back as a rebate from the lamps they furnished and the oties they contracted to furnish? Mr. Kirby: Baslng my opinion on ihe different eases that have come up in the same way. I should say about twenty per eent. Mr. Spinks: From the practical knowledge you have ln wiring and exp.-rience in lighting in Alexandria City, don't you think there are lots of unnecessary wires that we could do without if the town were proper ly wired, and that much of the dan? ger from fires and so on would be eliminated? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir; if you still retain the overhead system you ought to have some uniformity in ninning tho wires. Mr. Harrison: In this case of the Colorado Springs these people claim ed that there was a loss of 6*4 per eent? Mr. Kirby: Yes, sir. Mr. Harrison: I asked this ques tion before, whether or not there would be any loss. Mr. Kirby: Yes, I suppose so. The Chairman: There is a loss on every wire? Mr. Kirby: More or less, yes, slr. Mr. Dunn: My knowledge goes only as far as this on the question of the report. Mr. Betts came down after the report was made and went down to the works one night. Mr. I'hler wont down there, too, and ex amlned the boards and the current metera, and Mr. Betts was satisfled then that the proper current was be? ing used and gave what ought to be given, but as to his making report as to the number of lamps, or the suf ficiency of giving 2,000 candle power lamps. I don't know anything about that. He was employed to make a re? port and it was made, and that is the end of it. As to the clrcumstances under which the rebate was stopped, I know nothing about it. The Chairman: Don't you think the auditor could furnish that infor mation? Mr. Dunn: He could only testlfy as to when. He simply certifles all bllla as put in here. The auditor don't make out any bills. If the bill came in here from the gas works cer tifying that the Alexandria Electric Company was to be paid so much for 8.") lamps without any deductlon. or with a deducMon, he would certify to the payment, and if he was au ihorized to pay full price. he would make it out at that. lf the bills are made out by the gas company they are made out monthly. If the bills came in with 20 per eent off, he would pay lt and it would be O. K.'d by the Committee on Light. " Mr. Spinks: They did hold back some for a time. The rebate was held back by the auditor and he would not have held that money back unless he had been notifled. Mr. Kirby: When they patd re? bate; for the lights being out, they don'l charge for lamps out until after 12 o'clock. Mr Waller makes them out for one or two or three months, say seventy dollars, and I would get a check for the full amount 0f tln- seventy dollars. I got a check from the Alexandria Electric Com? pany and gi\e it to them. You would g.-t the Information from Mr. Price. I think the rebate amounted to seven hnndred dollars. Mr. Spinks: They must have been notifled by aomebody, Mr. Kirby: It was not done that way. The city paid the bill as Ii s'ood to the Alexandria Electric Com? pany, and it send its check here for the live per eent The last check I bronghl here was for five hundred dollars I had collected from the city from the money owing to the Alex? andria Electric Company 1600, and the check was made out for tbe Bve per eent rebate for the gross receipts. The city would issue its check straight. Mr. Dunn: I want to explain to this eommittee thal I was connected with this business only'to the extent of the investigation of the poles, and the condition of the plant at that time. Wheth.-r the light committee employed Mr. Betta afterwarda to re? port on what had been done by the Electric Light Company to eure this condition is an unknown quantity to me. Mr. Harrison: I don't know any? thing about any sueh report. Mr. Dunn: I found Mr. Betta a verv pleaaanl gentleman, and he its ually goes beyond his eontraet in giving information. and follows it up, and he may have just informally come down here to the eommittee following up this report. The com? mittee may have followed up this r.-port and asked Mr. Betta to report on it or Mr. Betta may have dom- so voluntarily. My connectlon ends with this report, and turning it over to the gas committee. His official connectlon ends with this report. Mr. Spinks: As to whether upon the recommendatioB of Mr. Hetts they stopped this rebate Mr. Dunn (interrupting)?I doii t know. The Chair: Somebody ought to know. Mr. Kirby: I think tbe rebate amounted to seven hundred dollars. 1 think Mr. Eisher can tell you. Mr. Dunn: Mr. Betta made a ful ler reporl thaa we expected him to make. He took a map and made a location of all the pob-s and the sys? tem of llnee, and ooadlttona in the town. I have them in the offlce now. They are not up to date now; they hav.' been ehanged since that time, becauae both tbe telephone compan ..,,1 the electric light company. and probably tbe telegrapfa compan lea have ehanged their poles and | know the telephone eompantea have done considerable amount of work in changing their Mr. Kirby: This information about the rebates that I got was to this effect. that after Mr. Betta' re? port it was taken for granted that the lamps were ehanged, and he so notifi.d the city. I don't know what authority he notifled. I think Mr. Plaher has some data on tbat point. lt brings it right back to the fact that th.- Alexandria Electric Company rec ognizes the fact that the candle pow? er they gave was not what had been contracted for. Mr. Dunn: I thlnk that ordinance that Mr. Betts recommended was in troduced luto Council and referred. I don't know whether It Was put Into the report. Mr. Betts' wrote the or? dinance. The reason I think the re? port was put Into the Council and re? ferred is that I asked members of the gas committee if I mlght appear before them, because it imposea a good many conditiona and duties on me, and I wanted to see that lt waa ln such shape as that I could carry them out. It never came back to me, of course, and I waa never called on to appear before the committee and I don't know what became of lt. I think it was turned over to Mr. Flsh er, but if you are going to have Mr. Fisher here he can tell you about that. Mr. Spinks: Mr. Dunn, this fran ehlaa was granted to this company for thlrty years for the purpoae of supplying heat and power and light, and they are granted the use of the streets and other public highways of the city, and are authorized to erect and construct poles, condults, and so forth, In order to aupply electriclty for light, heat and power, and other general purposes to the city of Al? exandria and its inhabiiants, and up? on the provlsions and limitatlos here in set forth, and those hereafter pass ed by the City Council appllcable thereto. All this work was to be done under your supervislon. Have you ever been called upon or notifled or asked permission for the use of the streets of Alexandria for the lighting purposes or have they ever requested or notifled you that they were going to carry current outside of the city? Mr. Dunn: Not to me. I would Judge that they had no right to do that. Mr. Spinks: Would they not have to make applieation to the City Coun? cil? Mr. Dunn: Yes, slr. Mr. Spinks: They have run wires al ready, have they not, outside of town? Mr. Klrby: Yes, slr. In Brad dock Helghts and Del Ray and they are running them now down to Fort Hunt. Mr. Dunn: They cannot run them outside of town under this charter. If they had applled to me for per? mission I could not have given It to them. It la very piain that they are given the right to erect poles and run wires in the city for the purposes of the Clty Council and the inhabiiants of the city of Alexandria. The Chairman: And where the question arises about plantlng poles and property owners object they come to you? Mr. Dunn: They ought to. The Chairman: They do? Mr. Dunn: Sometimes. I can't settle lt. They have to come to an agreement with the owners of the property. Mr. Spinks: They have never con sulted you? Mr. Dunn: No, they never did. I would not know the present super intendent if I saw him on the street. The plan was in the beginning that they slioiild use the old clty poles that had been erected, and that has been about the only time that I have l.e. n called upon. Mr. Kirby: I went to set a pole on Christ Church alley and Mr. Hul flsh objected and I went to Mr. Car lin, and he said the property owner was the only one who could giv? ?he permission and I did not plant the pole. Mr. Dunn: I think the original ordinance does not give the right to do it. Even if they got the consent ot the property owners and I did not approve it, I suppose I could stop it. Mr. Uodcers cut one of the Western I'nlon poles down there on Fayette Street. Mr. Hill: We are not geitlng two thouaaad candle power lamps? Mr. Kirby: No, sir. Mr. Hill: Mr. Betts' report Ia not being carried out? Mr. Kirby: No, sir; it is not Mr. Dunn: I don't say that Mr. lietts did not make that report at the request of the Council. I don't know. Mr. Spinks: You never have been consulted about anythlng exeept as to these old poles when they flrst came here. as the use of the old poles that belonged to the clty? Mr. Dunn: No, slr. Mr. Hill: This new flrm has never consulted you about anythlng, have they? Mr. Dunn: No, sir; I don't know them. Mr." Spinks: I move that when this report has been completed it be publlshed ln the Alexandria Gazette. The motion was unanlmousiy car? ried. The committee thereupon adjourn ed to Friday ev.-ning, .luti'- Itb, 1010, at the same place, whea further tes? timony will be submitted. At the Office of the Mayor, In the citv of Alexandria, Va., Friday, June I, i9io. | o'clock P. If. The committee ni'-r pursuant to adjournment. Present: Francis F. Marbury, Esq., chairman; H. Noel (Jarner, Secre tary; F. C. Spinks. Ksq., J. M. Hill, Bag., and John W. Harrison, Ksq., iiii-inbers of the said committee; Samuel P. Fisher, Ksq., attomey for Alexandria City; John P. Wal I.-r, Ksq., Clerk of the Gas; and D. R. Btanabury, Baq., Cterk of the lommon CouactL The Chairman: I have here a let ter which has been found ln the of? fice of the Clerk of the Gas, and which I wish to read: Alexandria Klectric Company, Alex? andria, Virginia, General Offlces Media. Pennsylvania. Alexandria, Va., January 16, 1908. E. F. Priee, Esq., City Auditor, Alex? andria, Va.: Dear Sir:?This ls to notify you that we completed the change of the city arc lamps on January 15th, from 6.6 ampere to 7..". ampere. Trusting this will be satlsfactory, we are, Yours verv truly, A. S. DARRAH, Sup't. Mr. Fisher: I move that thia let ti-r be incorporated Into this report. This motion was unanimously car? ried. Mr. Spinks: I would like to aak you, Mr. Waller, you remember that after the city employed Mr. Betts to make this examination of the lights and the general condition of the Alexandria Electric Company, he did make the report, and then the city, or the auditor, the auditor, I iniag ine, made a reductlon of 20 per eent until the lights were broungt up to the conditions of the contraet made by the city?