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> ALEXANDRIA, VA., WEDNF.SDAY EVENING, JUNE 29, 1910. PRICE 2 CENTS E? *>LUME CXI. Am -No. 153 ^ontini/ation of Testimony Heard Before Special Committee of City Council to Examine into Electric Light Situation. Teslimony in Behalf of Alexandria Electric Co. i('ontinued from Pagc 4) Mr. Hailow: Mr. lletts now being :.t, Mr. Kirtiy, do you atlll refuei to !? mlned on your pl*ev> ioiis Irslllir Mr. Kirtiy: Me baa nothing to do Uie Mr. Harlow: I dealrr to have ttala Btateraeni ipread on the record. When thia committee first met l re . i tha privilege of beiag alhrw oraey lor tlie company, to li. preeenl al the bearlnae, and Ine He- srltneeaea, the oommlttee unanimousl* agreed nnd I was noti ried io nttend the Brel meeting of the Ittee. i attended the meeting .- then Infonned thal the eom .. ,;,??? rj Ita niind and de i hold aeealona bebind cloaed srhlle aad thal later they ..i .?; on me to be rreeenl ? Chairnraa i laterruptlng): You , interview wltfa ,,,?. oi ? -. and peraonall] each one, the> had no objection, bul I ihon&ht lhat ? ?? Chairman I bad better call the committee together >*sj Btate wtiai you wanted to the owfomtttoe, and they daeMed that they did nol wani you taera. Mr. Harri.son: Mr. Harlow, you : io have an interview with DM on llie Sllliject. \lr. Harlow: Vou were nol pretv iB, bul you were prea eni when i appeared before the oom? mlttee ? hen they mrr for the faral ?i iriiiK The eii.'iirnian: Probably the reav son h?- did noi set you. Mr. Harrlaon, had aeen thn e of the membera and that oonitttated a ma jority. Mr. Harlow: I wani to contenl my s.if so !nr as Mr. Kiriiy is concerned bv aayiag thal are are prepared to thoa thal many of the ataten Mr. Kirby is reported to bave made are nol true, tbal other atatement* are only half iruc and tbal Other made on ln for mat ion ,. li. l. and made abOUl Hiin^s of which li" could not have had any knowledge. 1 aaaame thal the oom . a report waa made on Mr. Kr sy'g teetlmohy, and l ahould think tbe committee would be Inter in Ondlag out whether thoae Btatementa are true or ao! trui went* ahould be on ;. ratioa al all. Mr. Fisher: I move that .Mr. Har .?n opportunity to prove what Btatementa made by Mr. Kirby are BBtrue He has his wiinasses The Chairman: i have a letter here Mr Harlow In whieh be state* ,i ,i he would llke tO have r.?called .. Mr. Kirby and Mr notlBed in ac rttn tha requeal In that r. Mr. Kirby was asked tO ai lle wat not aummoned. He i? ,, tonight. as tlie committee Wha' his aciions are are wn. I f COUrae, and we cannot di her: Now, l renew my mc tioi, ti ai Mr.' HarVoa be given permla . ... whai *tat< rnenta made Ir. Kirby are ui I -ui thi reupon i>nt the n. which was iinaiiiinously car Splnka: I am satiafled that all aworn, if thal is nec l think ihis committee has . , ,. , We an hnidhiR an in ,,?,,,. and I make that motion, Tbe Chairman thereupon pnl tne motion. ? . , , u?,. Harlow: If Mr. Bpmkl in hay pol nnder oath , thow that we will then have pow to reeall Mr. Kirby - r Bpiaka (inteiTuptlng): i ie Chairman: Aro you ready U r Harlow: We would llke to ai whether or not the oommlttee reeall Mr Kirby. Mr. Bpiaka: We will if we have ? right (o do that. "he Chairman: Have we the r. Plaher: You can assume the t. if the wilnesses objert they tte thi ir oblectiona. \lr. Harlow: Do I understand that tinp tbeaa witnesaea on oath will ,ilt" in compelllng Mr. Klrbj lo iwer theae qneetion*, or in eomael ng him to be raealled? Mr. Fisher: 1 doa't know that '..u weuM glre vou the power. Mr. Harlow. Then what is ihe ob ?crt of pattlng them nnder oath? ou did not pul your witnesaos under alh. Mr Bpiaka: 1 thonght thal it was .- witneases her.- would ,, orn thal Mr. Kirby did not ml to teetlfy here tonight. 1. with raa my motion. . her: i move that It be left the dlacretion of eaeh witncss kether he will be aworn or not. The Chairman: Thal la fof Mr. larlow'a n ??*? Mr Harlow : 1 dealre tO say thal all ofthe witaaaaea we have here are Derfeetly willing to be aworn. iirovid . | tbe whneeaea which have prev loualy testilied before this oommlttee w,r? lt is iinpossible at this termtaa whether you can hose witneases awom or not. .. st that tbe testur.ony ot ire here present be taken. iind if yonr witnesses will alterwai da to their Btatementa these wit Aml thereupoa Mr. R. C. Faught, who appeared a' ihe reqaeat of the Alexandria Electric Lighl company. on Interrogatoslefl propouuded to him, testlOed as foi low Harlow: Please state you*T and occupation. Mr. Kaught: R C. Paoght I am a represeatatlve of the Oeaeral Elec? tric Compaay. Tln following questions by Mr. Harlow: QaesUoa: What experience have you had in the electricai busines-,? Answer: For twelve \ears 1 havfl been witb the Oeseral Klectric paay, havinj; been for two years of that' time in their factory and en gaged mostlj in working on are lamps. . Btlon: Have you ma amlnatlon of the electric light altua ln Alexandria? Answer: 1 have been Inapecting : :nt. aml the equipmenl and also QUOatiOn: Have you had 04 pr< i loi b to thia hearlng to have had anj experience ln tbe matter of ihe Interpretatlon of electric lightlng contraet* between citiea and electric ompanlea? know l, rjge ? hai have eome up un r condltiom to thoae il exist here. b: in the contraet be the Alexandria Electric L I he I Ity of Alexandria bai the company shall fi r iiish ? are lights I r h addltlt 'i the City Council irom tlme to time order, during the continuaiiec- of ihe rontraci, thal is for thlrty yeara, all of which are lamps so' furniahed ahall be of the lateal type encloaed alternatlng are lamp of 2,000 candle power, and 1 a-.k you whether or nol from Ihe in spection you have made today of Ihe plant. and the llghta now furniahed thia city hy the Alexandria Electric Company, ir. your opinion these lamps falrly meaaure up to ihe contraet Bpeclflcationa? AnewerJ Granted that those lamps 7ir<- iipci'Mli-d ;it 7 'i: fim P<I ??, they do fuinil that BpeciOcatlon. Qucstion: What is the general ly rted meaning in ihe electric lightlng bualneaa of encloaed alter nating arca of 1,000 candle power lamps? Ahawer: Bome years ago the Na tional Electric Aaaoclatlon declded thal the so-calbd 2,000 candle power lamp ahould be one conauming 150 watta, and tlie oOBtraCta made iu re eenl years have been baaod on that Bgura. Question: What is lhat equlvalenl to in ampere, Mr. Panghtf \nswer: That in an encloaed lamp or in any other type of lamps would be eqnivalent to the producl of the ampere and the voKage. The two term* of ampere and watl are not .irily s\ nonymoiis. and. of ?. you must taUv into considcia -- voltage of the lamp. Queatlon: la the 7 !j ampere lamp as usually and generally operated conaldered a 2,000 candle power en? cloaed lamp? \nswer: lt is. It has been iimmI m the lamp to meet the requirementa of the ao-called 8,000 candle power lamp ln B great many contracts. ln fact it | little more than equals the i.-.n watt ratrng. Queatlon: Ia tbe enclosed alterna ? lies are Of 2,000 candle power sjipp:..;,.,! to 01 < aa i! Blre 2,000 ac tiiai candle poa i Anawer: No. No atreet lamp com niotily ii. ? 'I ever gave L'.'1"" candle power or anywhere near it. Queatlon: How did thal term come to be used" Answer: I'loin ibe tact that in the early daya no meaanrementa were made, and they just eatimated tbe liubt given by the lamps and eati? mated II in candle power. Queatlon: Waa that term 2,000 candle power ever a correct meaaure lllellt Of the Old laillpS even? Answer: No. sir. Aml I explaimd that what it means in these times, having been so declared, is B lamp conaumlnaj 150 watta. Queatlon: If these lamps at pres? ent in use in the streets oi Alexan? dria can be ahown to conaume 160 watta ..r more, would they meet tbe requirementa of this contract, in your opinion? Answer: They would. Question: Have you any personal knowledge as to the amount of wat tage or watts coiisumed by these lamps now in use here? Answer: I have looked over the loi; sheets for the past few months and from tbe reglatratlon of the watl metera on the are lamp drcults i find tbat tbe averaga eoasumatioa of these lamps is .". 1 1 watts. Qaeetton: That eonsumptlon. I un? derstand, is more than is usually suo posed to be glvaB under a contract of this kind? Answer: Four hundred and fifty watts would oxactly fulfill the usual requirementa ol a 2,000 candle power lamp. 1 might add that the 7 Vfc am? pere alternatinp lamp would operate at 401 watts. when properly adjust ed. Question: Can you state the t..tal output ln kilo-watts in the are light ctrcuitfl of this plant per month? Answer: On this aheel oi paper 1 tbe record for several months of operation. In September the kilo watt houra output was 1S.292; for October It waa Mr. Fish. i linterrupting): ls that from the records of the Alexandria Electrtc Company? Mr. Fa.ight: Tea, sir. Mr Fisher: I think it would be better to have the orlglnal. Mr. Harlow: Here Ii ihe original. Mr. Faught. This m.-morandum was made from he original. ln Oc? tober it was 11,461; la November IT.;:?::; la Deoember 10,840; Jaau ary 18,720; Februarv 15,426; March 16.513; April 13,1*8; May 18,212. The record shows that there were elghty-alx lamps la service. I might add that the figures I gave for the average watt eonsumption of each lamp were based on the May record. I have not figured them for the other montha, but judging from the appear aace of the figures 1 should say the reault would be practically the aame Thoae are the figures recorded by the metera. Question: Judging from the fig? ures you have before you would you or would you not say. in your opin ion. that 'from those figures these lamps are iiieasuring up to the re MUirements of the contraet I quoted from? Answer: I should say that the lamps are measuring up to the con? ditions of the contraet. The Chalrman: Do you aaeea to aay tbal tbeae hunpa are giving the light they should gi\e? Mr. Fangiit: As explained by my teatimony. The Chairman: Have you seen the lamps and do you know that they are giving tho proper light? faugbt: 1 have not aeen them. I can't tell that. The Chairman: That is what we are talking about. .Mr. Harlow: Tbis contract was entered Into on the 9th day of Au? !!iOi'.. Can you state whether or not tbe Fort Wayne lamp WC was 00 that date considered a siandard lamp? Mr. Faugbt: It was. Queatlon: With 7..'. ampere coili would it make any difference, so far aa tha effeetiveneeB is coacerned, whether tbis was au old or ii BOW lamp? Answer: None al all. If you put a eertaln amoual of eaei l ween tbe earbon buraera of aa) are lamp the reault In candle power would be tbe same, assuniing tbat the globea were In a proper state of eleanl Queatlon: There seenis to I pretty general Impreeaioa in the dty of Alexandria tbat tbe old Bcbuyler lamp, which was in use before the present lamps were installe.i. gave a better or more effective light than the lampa al present ln use. Do you think that this is true* Answer: I do not think that any type of op.n lamp glvee a light equal io an onelos. d lamp? Queatloa: ls it not a fact tbat whiie the old Bcbuyler light was brigbt and probably more btilliaat or dazr.llng near the lamp itself. the II luminating radius was less? Anawer: ii was. The old type of opea lamp dlaburaed its maxlmuni Ught at about 60 degrees below the borlsontal, which made a very brtl liiint lllumlnatlon in close proxlmity to the lamp. The Chalrman: You mean it did nm dlatrlbnte the light? Mr. Faugbt: Kxactly. The alter naiinK are lamp of ihe enctosefl t \ pe il ist i-ilxites iis maxini u ni camlle pow er at say 10 degrees below tbe hori tontal, aml between tbe borisoatal and the 40 degree angle the light is Buperlor t<> the light of the open are i, ampere type between those same anglea, and tbe most effective light lor street illiiminai lon is deliv? ered at anglea between the horizontal and 10 degrees. Mr. Harlow: Assuniing that these lamps are 7..", ampere,.. and knowing as I understand you that tbe system i :i 7..". ampere system, do you or do you not eonaider tbat those two cir cumatancea place the companj in a position io tiiiiy eomply with the re quirementa of this contract? .Mr. Faugbt: i should say they did. Mr. Harlow: Mr. Fisher, do you" desire 'o crosa-examine the witi hi rfke io Mi. ..uu >?."le ?? were not permitted to croaa-examlne anv witneaa who has prevloualy teatl fied, y.'t we are perfectly willing that vou' croaa-examlne ours. if you wish tO dO M'. Mr. Spinka: We have mel before. Mr. Faught: Tea, sir. Mr. Spinks: Mr. Hill, Mr. Harlow aml myaelf mel you in tbe New wn lard Hotel? Mr. Faught: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Were you not then Introduced to us as the repreaenta? tive of the Korl Wa.VIie people? Mr. Faught: No, sir. I never worked I'or any elcctrhal concerfl bul the General Electric Company. Mr. Spinks: I wam lo read from a letter of Mr. Betta' to you, when he was repreeenting the Alexandria Elec? tric Company. I Readlng) For thi nexi few montha, al l< aat, i ahall be rdiarge of all phyalcal mattera con DOCted wiih the Alexandria Klectrie Company aml in ihis connectlon would say thal Ihe Forl Wayn lampa naed for atreet lightlng on ihe aiternating currenl ayatem bave atiafaction. it is Im perative thal aomething be doae in the noar future i?> remedy the aitaa tlon and I would llke to take the matter up with you at your eonven lence. Tha: was a letter wrltten to vou. Now I want lo ask you if any thing was done. as far as you know. Mr. Faught: I do remember that. al that time they were ha\ing some trouble with carbon boldera, Mr. Spinks: You remember receiv ing tbia letter from Mr. Betta while he was employed by the Alexandria Electric Company? Mr. Faught: Yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: You have not made any i.ispection of this plant at all in the T ight time? Mr Faught: No, sir. Mr. Spinks: Would it not be possi ble to falsify that log from which you have read: Mr. Faught: A man might write down the wrong readings, yes, sir. Mr. Spinks: Who furnished this log? Mr. Faught: Mr. Weller. I got il from his office. Mr. Spinks: It could be so that proper records were not made? Mr. Faught: If anybody were so disposed lhat could be done. of COUraa, just as if you were to writc a letter and make a false statemeni in it Ml I know is what that log sheet ?how* and they are generally aeeept ed as true. They are the records by whieh the company bases their ex penaea, aml I suppose they are usual? ly kept correctly. Mr. Spinks: You siated that some of them ran away up lo ti. . watts. Mr. Faught: Yes. sir. Mr. Sninks: You say 160 would be all that COUld be re<|iiired? Mr. Faught: fea, sir. That is Uie usual requiresaent. Mr. Spinks: ls not that a lot of unneeeaeary expaaae running this curreat up that far? Mr. Faught: No, sir. The major ity of companies do that usually, rather than run their are lamps too low. They want to be on the *afe side. Mr Spinks: You don't know whether or not up to today these lamps have been running with ~Vt ampere eoils? Mr Faught: No. sir; only the staiement of Mr. Weller. and what these log shee.s show. Mr. Spinks: You don't know any thing of your own personal know ledge about the plant? Mr. Faught: Except that I have made an inspection of the regulators, and see that they are all reading 7% amperes. That would Indicate to me that they are operatlng at 7 ?4 am? peres. _ Mr. Spinks: You I. asked about the Buantl want to ask you. yoa are an expert, don i you think thal a company with? out aetual equipmeat to conduct the buaineaa going <>n tbe atreet la badly conducted If tbe (ompany did not bave a globe to substitute in the place oi one globe tbal they wanted to take off? Mr. Faugbt: lt would look like that If they were unable to substitute B lamp la ease one got out of ord. r ii : look ao. Mr. Spinks: We carriod a lamp to Waabingtos laat night, and they only r' of a lamp bat .. inner globe i,, substitute for tbe one they took down. nor an OUteT globe, and we bave no' gw _bat, and ii was stated thal if a globe was to break on tbe stn-et thal they would have !. lace it. l"o iiin don't know nnything about the plant ? Mr. Faught: I have not been Into their atore room. I don'l know any thine about their Buppliea, ol course. Mr. Spinks: Vou have made no ex aminatlon of the lamp? Mr. Faught: Of only one of the lamp* tbal was on their taai rack np there. Mr. Spinks: They say ihey could not run loa roltage lamps at 6.1 am |gh roltage currenta; Yet if ihey should do thal the tbe lamps would nol burn. N'ou if ?everal ot theae lampa go out on the here and stay out for two or three hours, and then when ihey are put up again they go oul again, would not that be an indication of bad rnan ilgellienl '.' Mr. Faught: H might or it might not. .\ ?: i ii drcnll on the lelephone line mlghi pul oul the lamp. Mr. Spinks: Suppose you would iix one, aml then tu another, and then Bx another. and then the one thal they had ftxed would go out . while ihey were tixing sotlie of the othera. Our eontroveray has a- to the lampa; tbal is what it is aboul now. You stale thal ll reeently been coneldered thal the 7 V6 ampere lamp is ? noiiiinal S.000 can? dle power lamp? Mr. Faught: fea, sir, for the last threi or four years. Bomething llke that. Mr. Spinks: This contraet wi tered into with tbe city prior to that time by tbe Alexamlria Electric Com? pany, was it not? Mr. Faught: I don't know that. The only thiag that I know about tbe contraet I* tbal aectton there that I have Just heard Mr. Harlow read. Mr. Bpiaka: You have nol read in there that the city is to receive a 7*4 ampere lamp which shall fulfill the term* of this Contraet, have von? Mr. Faught: I have nol read the contraet at all. i don'l know what la in there. Mr. Bpiaka: You doa'l know \\\m afofiSl .txV^H^har'JiY.'-'v. baa told you, do you? Mr The only thing that l know aboul the planl is what I told vou here. i have Inapected the itora as I told you and tbe plant; I don't know anytbing about the operatiag ol tbe company, of course, i am only there aa an expert on those mattera, itions by Mr. Ptaber: Mr. Fisher: How often do you com'* 10 Alexandria? Mr. Faught: I make no stated trips. I was here about tbe Bl June, aml prevlous to thal time it was probably a year Bfuce l was here. Queatlon: How long did you ataj I.ltle" Answer: During tbe day. tion: What la jroar connec tion or aaaoeiation with the Alexan? dria Electric Company? Answer: None, except tbal I Call on Mr. Weller as a travoling sales? man of tne Qenaral Bleetlie Com QuestlOB: How long have you been with tbat company? Answer: About twelve years. For tWO years Of tbat linie I was in tbe factory, working the taoat of the time on are lamps, nnd I have been traveling for them about tBB years. Queatlon: Those two yeara thal \ou spant In tbe factory. an tbi only actual experieBce that you have had with the are llghting business? Answer: No, sir: continuously siuce thal time, beaidaa having had a scientific education previously. Bxplaia the principal parta of the endoaad Fort Wayne are lamn. Answer: The series coils, shunt coils and adjusting spring. the clutch and upper carbon holder will be con si.iered the essential working parts ol tbe lamp. Question: What is tbe aeriea coll? Anawer: That is the coil tbrough which tbe main current of the circuit and lifts the carbon. Question: Do you test by that coll for the amperage of the lamp? Answer: I can'i answer that ques? tion directly, the current passing tbrough the lamp would be tested by inserting an air meter in the circuit. All the current passes through the series coil. Question: Is that the coil which you test to see what is the amparage of the lampf Answer: No. sir. That has noth? ing to do with the test. You insert an air meter in the circuit for the test. All the current passes through that. , Question: What is the purpose of ihe shunt coil? Answer: It is connerted in shunt ing across the are. It takes a very sniall amount of current, perhaps three or four hundredths. It Is to adjust the are and maintain it at a standard voltage. Queatlon: What Is the use of the adjuating spring? Answer: To adjust the are voltage at a staied volt. Questlon: What is the use of the clutch? Answer: That is the meehanlsm bv which the carbon is fed. Question: What i* the top carbon holder? Answer: That takes the current from the frame of the lamp into the carbon. Question: Testimony has been of fered here to the effect that these lamps have been changed from 6.6 ampere lamps to 7.5 ampere lamps. What would be necessary in order to make this change? Answer: You would change the coil* in order to make the lamp* oper ate at the new voltage?on the new current. Question: When the CMrent is first turned on the are la:n;>. if tbe carbon simply lights and refuses to are, what ls the matter with the lamp? Answer: That is too much for me. lt might be one of a number of thlags. Question: If you take the fi.6 am? pere Lamp and change the coils ? without adjusting the otber parts of the lamp, would thal make ii? wer: If the current is changed it would not be readjuated to ? ampere current. It would not aeed DStmenL The shunt coll and spring would do what was aacaaaary. Queatlon: In order to change these lamps there would he no change ex eept in tbe seriea coil? Answer: That is all. Queatlon: Vou bave never been in town at night? Answer: No, sir. Question: How long were you in town on the first of June? wer: Possil.ly a c ouple of boura in the afternoon. I don't re metnti. r how long exactly. I >on Inapected this plani aml the equipmeat. Whal lon did you make? Answer: I made an inspection of aaaformera, and of the regala tor- aad oi the lamp itself. Question: Vou did not make any examlnatlon or inspection of the lampa on the streel! Answer: Not while it was on the I exatnined a lamp in the room np there. 1 examined one lamp. Question: Mr. Harlow aaked you after reading a clause of this com pany'a contract with the city, if a 7.5 ampere li^ht wouhl comply with the COnditlona of that contract. and you red graated tbe llgbte are op erated as 7." ampere lights they do? \n an i : 'i I I, sir. Queatloa: Vou ara aaeumlng tbal lampa are operated at 7..". am peres? Aiisw.r: Tea, sir. Tbat would be ry in any statement, Question: You have never tbe wa" rueti is in operallon, have you? Answer: No, sir. I mmht and that tle llleler in SJiert i < >I1 WOlllll (1 el e llll i !1 e iiothing about the light. Question: could you go lo the plant in the day time ami examine iii. meters and tel] whal they were doing at night? wer: No, sir. Question: You speak of 7.5 am? pere lampa conaumlng 150 watt*??? Answer (iBterrupting): i don't think ao. i said any lamp oonauming 160 watta was a nomlnal 2,000 can? dle power lamp. Question: You don'l know wheth? er theae lamps here on the streets are properl] adjusted? Ausmr: I have not made any in ISaumlng ...at tne a,, ?'. ifl 7.6. vou can aupply the tech uli yooreelf, give the 01 her amount tha' would be ? to make (60 watta, Answer: li would be the product of the T \i. amperes into ihe volts Lhe termlnal* ol the lamp into the power factor. Qaeatioa: If there are 7**j am? pere* to obtaln 160 watta, wbal would have lo be the \oitage? Answer: lu order to produee that result seventy-twn volts. Question: If it were operated al 10 rolta whal would be the result*! Wer: There would be a reduc tion in the relative ratio. Question: If II were operated al 10 volts whal would be the result? tntrwer: The lamp would not oper 10 volts. Question: Can you operate 6.6 ?mpere lampa on the aaaM m with 7..", ampere lamps? Answer: Not saiisfactorily. Yoi: might be eble to adjasi the lampa down in roltage aml get ihem to oper ate. The effect wottM be this if you pui 6.1 ampere lamps and 7.7, lamps im the aame cirenll the lamps would dtaw too much voltage. The wai would ran way up. Whether you eould cut them down enough to oper tttsfactorily would depend on the individual lamp. Qneatlon: Ton say you aaw the log sheet for two months? Answer: Yes, for a number of montha. For those months that I read off for you just now. Question: When diu you see that? Answer: Today. Question: You state that a IVz ampere lamp properly adjusted would censume 160 watts? \nswer: Adjusted with a termin al voltage of 78 volts, was it? Queatlon: And if not properly ad? justed it would not consume that? Answer: It might consume more or might consume less. Question: You also stated assum ing that tbe glohea were in a proper state of cleanllness? Answer: It ls tbe same as a dirty wlndow. Question: I understand you to say fOB examtaed one af the lamps of thi- compaay. Wnat lamp' Answer: I could not say what lamp. It was a lamp on their test rack up there. Question: Not one on the street? Answer: I was told it came off the stre.t and was in there for adjust ment Mr. Spinks: Mr. Hill asked about Ihe lamps the otber time. Mr. Hill: Did I understand you fo aay tbat there is at the pres.mt time a lamp on 'be market tbat would carrv out tbe contract made by the idria Btoctrtc Company with the cltV? Mr. Belts: It depends on what you would Mr. Hill linterruptingi: Can the Ddiia Electric Company have a lamp made that will carry out the contraet they made with the city? Mr. Hetts: Yes, sir. Mr Spinks: Now, I want to ask, could your company , the General ic Company, make a 2,000 can? dle power lamp? Mr. Faught: It could not. Well. I will say that they could make that lamp, but it would have to be a twenty ampere lamp. Mr. Spinks: It could be made? Mr. Faught: Of counse, if you want to pay for it. Mr. Fisher: Do you sell to the Al? exandria Electric Company? Mr Faught: Very little. I sup post my dealings with them amount to five hundred dollars in the la*t couple of year*. Mr. Harlow: Have you ever heard of any company making such a lamp as a 2,000 candle power lamp? Mr. Faught: No, sir; not for Btreet llghting. tttona by Mr. Harlow: Mr. Harlow: Have you ever known such a lamp to be Oaed for street llghting purj Mr. Faughi : No, sir. Btloa: Would it be possible for Oanpany t?> bave aocb i lamp made and put it in use at tbe price of $75.no per light per year. and would in your opinion a contract which call? ed t,,r an encloaed aeriea alternating are of 2,000 candle power costing per light per month have poaaibly meanl a lamp of 2,000 Bctual candle power? Mr. Fisher: 1 objeet to tbal ques? tion . Mr. Spinks: I don't object to thw question. The Chairman: I think that i|ties lion is all right. I.et him answer lt. Mr. Harlow: The contract with tbe city providea thal it aball pay $7.r? p.r light per year for an encloaed are lamp of 2,000 candle power, in your opinion, considering the light which it would be possibb- to fur nish aadar thal rate, could this have meanl tbat tha lamp was to be 2,000 acttial candle power? Mr. Faught: It could not. No company could furnish that light at tbat price naleaa they wanted to give money to the city. Question: Could you make | iclosed lamp of twenty amperea aml pui il in tbe globe wi'hout break ing the globe? Anawer: No, sir; I was just about tbat. Question: Until the glasa matiu facturers are able to improve tbe so thal they will stand it. it is practicall] ImpoaalWe to use such a lamp oi" the eocloaad type if it was made? Answer: Yes. sir. Mr. Spinks: You were asked if a 2,000 candle power lamp could be made and pul on these alreets at $7."> per year eacb "at a prott. Do you know anytbing aboul the otber con ditions or privileges granted under this contract? Mr. FaiiKh: No. sir. .Mr. Spinks: There couM be other condition- in there under which it would be poesible tO furnish this lamp at that price at a proflt! Mr. Faught: Any sort of condi? tions could be established. Mr. Spinks: We were to get 2,000 candle power lamps at thal figure and this company was lo have ihe privilege of using the poles of tlie city and Ihe Btreets, and to furnish the aurroundlng country with power aml light, and we get 5 per cent of ihe ;;ross reoeipta from the curren! sold in Uie city and nothing from thal aold OUtaide, and these people Oo ui.. ?."?? iiiii- l?v" Tho, walalhl ' ? r-.v.. ;,?> Mr. Faught: if enough cdnsldera tfon were given lhat would alter tlie caae. Mr. Fisher: 1 understand you to sav lhat there are no street lights made ol" L',<"'ii candle power? Mr. Faught: Not to my knowledge. Not actual candle power. Mr, Fisher: In your direct exami nation vou Btated that no street light generally used was ever 8,000 candle power? Mr. Faught: For street lightlng, you will remember I said. Mr. Fisher: Whal did mean by the word generally? Mr. Faught: In commercial use. Mr. Fisher: You said no lamp ever gave thal llghl for street llghl pur Mr. Faught: That is what 1 mean. Mr. Fisher: Mr. Harlow aaked you this question if the company could furnish 1,000 candle power lamps ai $7-" per year. aesumlng thal the hid was submined to the City Council of Alexandria agreeing upon ih? part of the bidder, 00 his own initiaiive. thal they would fur? nish a _\eiiii candle power liKht at $75 per year. from my understand ing of your answer the bidder had no Intentlon of compiying with the terma Of his bfd? Mr. Harlow: Are you assuming tbe actual conditions of this contraet? Mr. Fisher: Yes, sir, the actual facts, we have in our possession the bid in which Ihe bidder uses Ihose terma, I will furnish so many are lights of 8,000 candle power, and so forth. Mr. Harlow: We have the bid. Mr. Fisher: The city has the or iginal bid in its possession. Mr. Harlow: Here is a copy of it: "I will give for the franchise and present electric plant and equipment" so much. provided he recelve the franchise for thirty years, and would furnish are lamps of 2,000 candle power. for which he was to recelve $;.-, per light per year, the number of HfTbta not to be less than eighty five. "This proposition is based up? on 2.000 candle power are lamps for street UghliBg pnrposes." Mr. Fisher: Assuniing then that the bidd'-r sent in that bid, then the bidder had no intention of eomplying with the terms of the contract? Mr Faagbt: I should say that he intended to furnish the 2,000 candle power lamp, so-called, in common aaa. Thereupon Mr. Philander Betts. re called at the request of the Alexan? dria Klectric Light Company. in ans? wer to Interrogatortea propouaded to hlm answered as follows: Questions by Mr. Harlow: Mr. Harlow: Have you a copy of the reconimendations that you made to the company with a view or changing ihe lamps whieh were then used to bring them up to what von considered were ihe requlrements of the contraet made with the city? Mr. Betta: I have my letters, yes. What recommendations do you mean? Question: I understand that you made certain recommendations which vou thought ought to be carried out in order for the city to get the proper light, in regard to trimming lights. or carbons, changing coils, etc. I want you to festify what those rec? ommendations were. Answer: My recommendations re fer to improvements in the behavior of the lamps. Those recommenda? tions were made about a year after the lamps had been changed from 6.6 to 7.5 ampere. On Jannary 30, 1909. I addressed a letter to Mr. Mclver. at Media, Pennsylvania, in which I made the recommendations after I had looked over the sltuation in which I recommertded that a coiled pig tail holder for iioldlngthecar bons be placed in tbe lamp, and stat? ed that several bad been gotten from tbe Potomac Company and placed in some of tbe lamps that were ihe worst aad that aince tbat time the lamps appear. d to be doing better. Question: From your personal knowledge, bow many of those rec omniendations have been carried out? \nswer: To my peraonal know? ledge the coiled pig tail holder con nectlng tbe top carbon holders were purcbased, tbe change from braaa diisb pois to graphite was made. That coat nothing but the expreaaage on the dash pota. The third recom mendHtion with regard to triniming the lamp was never carried out so far r.s I know. It involvod a slight additional expense and Mr. Kirby called it hosh. Qitestion: I understand that you know that witb the exception of the metbod of trimniing all the recom mendatlona you made for improve DMnta were carried out? Answer: Yes, sir. Queatlon: Are yon familiar with the contract between this company and Ihe city, and know what sort of a lamp that contract calls for? Answer: Yes, sir. Queatlon; Assuniing that tbeae lampa are trininied properly in the nianner that you suggested in your letter, with tho other changes that bave been made, including tbis add ing of the coiled pig tail holder and the substinition of the graphite dash pota, would no! those changes have put the company in a position to fully comply witb its contract with the city? . Answer: It would. Queatlon: If the changes you sug gested ever bad been made, aml you say you know lhat thev have all made except as to the trimming. in your opinion these changes would give the city at the present time a lamp fiat would fully comply witi? the contract"? Anawer: Provided theiurrent was kept up, yes, sir. Question: I understand from the tesiimonv previouslv Kiven you Stat orl thal Ihe systein as ? system was a T.r. impera system. and that the f<re? erif difflculty, if there is any, was in the behavlor of the individual lamps? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: So that if this company is not living up to the n-qniromenls of its contraet with the city that failure is not due to its system. but to the hehavior of tlie individual lamps? Answer: That opinion coincides exactly with the deeJalon in the Col orado Springs caae. Question: Mr. Kirby in his testi iiinny made tbe statement that one ihird of the lamps were never chang ed. Do you know whether that is "?ue OI' IIOI ? I llrtV'vWV'1'.-. . ' ' - '. ;....-..l quite confldenl thal flierj w"Jr* mafte". Thal is merely a question of fact, which I think can be readily ftl talned by an examinatlon of the con stniction ledaer. If the present corn pany is ln possession <>t that ledger. Myacqualntanee with the first snper Intendent would lead me to believe thal If the proper eoUs were pur chaaed and aupplled to him, be would have p.tt them ln tne lamp. That can be readlly settled. I have no posltlve knowledge about that, nor I think has any man lhat is now 009 nected With the company. Then- is a man who knows who has been working as a machlnlsl al the Bmer* son l'limp Works. in- knows, boi uie the changes. The Chairman: You mean Mr. Smwhe? Mr. Betta: Yes, sir. Thal is his name. Mr. Harlow: I will ask you to state?if you have anv objection to doing so you- need BOi answer this question?In your opinion as an ex perj eleitiician, and from your ob ?ervatton and knowledge of Mr. Kir? by and Mr. I.loyd, do you regard elther of these gentlemen as quali 0 give expell leslilllon.V OD mat ters of this kind? Mr. Fisher: That is an improper question. The Chairman: I don't think that could be asked. Mr. Harlow: I desire to state that the report already riled and the re? port to be filed at the next meeting of council must necessarily be based. at least in part, upon the tesiimony given before this committee by Mr. Kirby and Mr. Lloyd. lt aeetM to me therefore, highly important to flnd oul whether or not in the opinion Of men qualitled to judge, the testi monv of Mr. Kirby and Mr. Lloyd as given should be entitled to weight. The only way that queatlon can be determined is to find out what is the opinion of those who are qualifled opinion of tahose who are qualifior to know and who do know. We are all lavmen, and we may say we know nothing about the subject of electri ciiv. If you are to pay attention to the testimony of Messrs. Lloyd and Kirby vou ought to determine how much weight should be given that testimony. If they are experlenced their testimony should be eouaidered If tbe] are not qualified this coniniit tee ought to know it. Mr. Fisher: Have you any knowl edge of Mr. Kirby*! experience as an electriclan? Mr. Iletts: I have. I would like to say that the opinion of one ex? pert expr.ssed about another's chi-.r acteristics or abilltles don't appear to me io bave much bearing on the subject. I don't think one witaeea ought to make any statementa of that kind about another. Mr. Spinks: I don't think there Is anv opjection on the part of the committee. It is a matter for this committee to determine as to the qualifications. We know that Mr. Kirby has been employed by the city and by the Alexandria Klectric Com? pany. As to the personal opinion of different experts, that is a matter be? tween themeseh' Mr. Betts. I don't think the wit nesses are on trial. I would like to make this sfatement here. A proper analysis of the faets will bring out all that needs to be known in regard to the credibility of any witness. This matter in regard to the purchase of substltution of new lights is a mere matter of fact that can be deter mined starting from that point. If these coils are changed in good faith, and if they were not, I think some sub-ordinate would be responsible for it. If they were changed it comes down to thi* one thlng: the behavior of the lamp*. That is largely ba?ed on opinion. The matter of candle ...,,*,, ha* be*ui >hr~h?d over and over again, and you are not going to make any headway discussiug that here. Mr. Fisher: I would rather have Mr. Betta answer such questlons as are asked him. Mr. Harlow: Will you explain briefly the iimaning nf light and II hiinination growing into the question of candle power and how did it first come to be used, and whether it is used now. .Just state what it means. Mr. Betta: The matter that Mr. Harlow asks about is a difference between Intflnaic brilliancy and can? dle power. When these new are were first installed most of the members of the committee said that they did not appear to be as brigbt as the old lamps. Generally speaking it was said by a great many people | could not look at the old lamps without shielding my eyes, but these don't affed my eyes, appar?i> lv. I want to explain what that ls due io: That is a fact just as they stated and the reason for it is that the eye does not measure candle power. lt meaaurea what is called intrinsic brilliancy. The candle power is the total candle power given by Ihe lamp in any given direction. The intrinsic brilliancy is the candle power per square inch of the stir laee. Take a plece of st 3el and beat lt to a white heat, the total candle power might be ten of Bftaea candle power, aml the Intrinsic brilliancy might be hundreds of thousands of candle power. The ordlnary gaa flame has an area of two or three aquart inches. say it given 10 candle power that is in tntrlnsm brilliancy. i'he actual candle power only amounta actually to five or six. Vou can look at any light whose intrinsic brilliancy Lt not more than se\en or cight with? out the alighteal inoonvenience. Tho customary 16 candle power lamp Is given off of such a amall area that the actual candle power per square inch is somewhaf between two and tbree hundred. Take the ordinary lamp. If it gives anywhi rer near a thousand candle power you could not look at it at all. The intrinsic bril ii.iiuy of the sun is ?omewhero be? tween five and six hundred thousand candle power. The eye rneasures the brilliancy of the source of ligbt per square Inch and the pupil of the eye contracts, more or less, depending on the intrinsie brilliancy. Every brllllant light makes the candle power small with Ihe old open are lamp in use is this city bel ue the new ?ystem was installed when you look Bd al 'he lamp you goi tbe effect of the intrinsie brilliancy while in the encloaed are lamp, ll is much Iower, it appear* not nearly so bright. Tlie only way in which you can determine as to the merlt of the two llghts 1* by standinj off at some dlstance and looklng ai aomething on which the jr^fn^fffe^"^ ? ri'gLSS on ihe ilis a ice* liet vVCrri tri'e"Wrn|?. The foiin ? contraet recommeaded by ihe Xationat Associantion would make the amount of Ulumlnatlon delivered al certain dstance -say one buadred and tifty or two hunder feet?Uie measure of the amount of ?ervfee. i' la very dtfferenl to meas? ure the actual candle .iower of an are lamp. I' >s very much less than people ihink ii is, due to the intrinsie brilliancy There has always been ihe opinion by those who looked at the lamps that an are lamp had a candle power very miich bighef thafl il would actnally measure. Mr. Harlow: ln your opouion does ihe encloaed alternatlon aro lami Ie* of ;..". ampere giv< ' -''? ater or amonat of light thaa the 9.76 open are Schuyler light? Mr. Betta: A. <. bundred and flflv teet the il llllll iliat ioll delivered kw aboul twlce as greal as the old lamp. At the point immediately 1111 ?ler ihe lamp is it not ..s great, but at a point one hundred and fifty feet away the 7 V4 amphere light give* about twlce as much light. Question: For effectlveneee ln light ing is ihe lamp which we bave at present in the city better or noi as good as ihe old si; ie larnp. I mean the 09S that they had here be? fore. Answer: Thal was a 8.6 ampere lamp. that was called a 1,200 candle power lamp. This system of course would be an lmprovement on the old system. Questions by Mr. Fisher: Question: On January 30, In your lettef you made recommendations thal a coiled pig tail holder be put in, that the trimming of the lamp be changed, and that new dasii pois De put in the lamps. You state that the coiled pig tail holders were put ln? Uurwer: Yes. sir. Question: They were put In, were they? wer: Yes, sir. Question: To your knowledge? Answer: Yes, sir. ihe method of trimming was not changed to my knowledge, but the dash pote were put in. Question: Hcw about the gas caps? Answer: As far as they were burned up in the lamps they were put ic. There was considerable trou? ble in the burning of gaa caps, and if the trimmings had been changed, as I directed a great deal of that trou? ble would have been eliminated. but the burning contlnued to a great ex i.iii Sluggishness of the lamps waa materially improved a* that time, but it was entirely eliminated. Question: Why not? Answer: Due to some sluggish aaaa in the regulators at tha | Question: Was any effort made to change the regulators? \nswer: A man wlio was here from the Fort Wayne factory said they thay were operating as well as he was able to make them operate. Question: They were never adjust ed. were they, after this change In the system? Answer: There was nothing to ad just. I suppose the trouble was ln the design. Question: Were they ever made satlsfactory? Answer: No change was ever made in them that I know of. Question: Was any effort made to change them? Answer: Yes, sir. A man from the factory was brought here to change them. He aaid they were all right. Question: They were stlll slug? gish? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Tbat caused the lamps tn be ahiaTxiah?