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Question: How soon after your
letter did they make these changes? Answer: The changes ln the top carbon holders were made about two montha later, and the changes In the dash potB were also completed about that time. Question: The changes in the daah pots and carbon holders were made in two months. Answer: Yes, sir. Question: I did not understand you to have Baid anything before about any top carbon holders. Answer: Tbat's the top carbon holder. Thats thia coiled pig tail holder. __ Question: Why did you write two other Ietters to the company recommending the the same changes Answer: In order to get it done. Question: It took two months to get It done? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Did you write the other two Ietters within the two months? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: When did you sever your connections aa engineer with the Alexandria Electric Company? Answer: In the month of June, 1909. ? . Question: As late as April and again in May you wrote to them about tbis? Answer: Yes. sir. Question: If you wrote in Janu ary and the changes were made in two months what was the object of your writing again in April and May when the changes had been made. Answer: On the 23rd of Febru ary I wrote to Mr. liclver, and re? commended tb.se changes again. If vou will remember my testimony 1 said it took all of two months to Let them. On March 24th 1 wrote him again '>"' work of overbauling the aie lamps bad not heen com Dleted and called his attention again Jo the carbon holders. That was the report at the . i.d of March. Here ls a letter dated the ?tt of April. a which I told him that Mr. 1 bler said the servlce was improving and I did nol call bis attention again to the way in wbich the lamp should be trimnied because I did not want to keen on repeeting the same thing. . itloo: At the time tbe changes in the lampa ware made from *? \n 7.5 amperes waa anything chang edtn th.. lamps but the sertes coils, il UM] changed? . Vnawer: i ballave not, axcepl that a number of new lamps wen purchased I dont know how many. Question: 1 n.ean in the lamps that wete recoiledT Answer: Nothing but tbe one coil was changed to my knowledge. Question: If ln tbe evening when the current is on the light what I* the trouble? What is that due o? Miswer: To ihe fact that if the current is at once brought up to the full value of 7%, as the coils and the regulators warm up In the cir cuits- the current OUghl not to be started at the full value at once, they oughi ui start at seven aud two or three-tentba aml gradually bring it up Thej they would not run that risk. That is io save Ihe gas caps. nol to aavo ihe current. Question: Should that apply to all the lamps in the circuit? Answer: Yes. sir. Question: Assuming that the lamp on Ihe corner of King and Fair? fax street* when it is Rrsl llghted begins to fliCker and Mckers on that way for two or three houis, while other lamps on King street. say the lamp at tbe corner of King and i stieeis is burning brlghtly, |. ,1,,. canea "t-1"'!"- " H the individual lamp. Question: Vou have 'old us the candle power of a gas tlame, of a place of hot Steel, and of the sun, wiiai is the candle power of these are lamps on ihe Btreet* in ihe city of Alexandria? Answer: .':?;" or $80, possibly 400 candle power. Qu< stlon: ln answer to a question aaked by Mr. Harlow you said that if the ttimmlng of the lamp were changed as you had recommended that lha. WOUld put the company in a poaition io fulhil Ihe terms of the eoniract with the city. Do you mean to tell us thal thi* unsatisfactory condition of ihe light* aboul whlchr you have previously testifled i be entlrely remedied by that? Answer: Granting tin* .!; i tur rent is ihe correci amount, tbe OPly trouble 1 could see was in Ihe lamps am! in ihe behavior of the regula Btlon: That la bi.I on tne aaaamptlon that the proper current Intalned and Ihe lamps are prop erly tiimnied and that ihe action of the regulators are proper. Can you whether the pr< per current is going through the lampa? Aaawer: Dp to fourteen months ago when I vlaited the plant frequent lv it waa. Question: How often did you vlsit the plant? knswer: Twlce a month and aome three or four times up to May. ? lon \ tbe Hme you left the company bad the regulators been changed? Had they been adjusted? ?wer: How do you mean adjust? ed? I understand you you had a man here fronn Fort Wayne to adjest the regulatora? wer: He found no trouble with them, he aaid. la other words waa nothing be could do. Queatlon: Waa 'be defectlve condl tioin of the regulatora ever changed wbile you weiv in the MrVaCC of the company? Answer: No. sir. Question: Has il been done up to Ihis time? Aaawer: 1 know nothing about alnCC tbat time. Questlon Do you think you can take a 8.6 ampere lamp aml simply change ihe aeriea coil anal that lamp will then perforni sat isfacto)\ .* Il ta 7.6 coils in it? Aaawer: Yes. sir; you change the part which us.-s tbe current. Question: Nothing needs to be ad Aaawer: i am not sumclently fa miliar with the differeiit types of lamp to say tbat. Hut the method WOUld be to take down tlie lamp aud bring il in and take out tbe old coils and put in new coils and test it on the actual working circuit. which was Blwaya done here. then tbe lamp was adjusted to run on tbe regular cir? cuit, wbich ran into the room behind the erhce. There are different types of lamp, evea the same type of lamp anaaufactured in different > ean are eometimea different; you might have to chang. one and not the other, and then you test the coils and make such changes in the lamp as ar. if they are BBlUBBaiJ. Question: WeTB these lamps tesied to your knowledge? Answer: Those tbal were r.paired sir. Question. How many were repair ed? Answer: All of them had the dash aad the carbon holders changed. Question: Then all were tested? Answer: Yes. sir. Question: Was that after the change was made? Answer: Yes, sir; a year after the change ln the system was made that change was supposed to have been made. Question: Why do you say that? Answer: I have taken it for grant ed that the change was made and so stated to the committee. Question: You say they were test ed? Answer: Yes, *ir; they used 7 V4 ampere*. Question: You stated that the un satisfactory condition and the behav ior of the lamps is due. I mean this service that is rendered to the city, is due to the behavior of the employees? Answer: Not to the employees of the company, but to the behavior of the individual lamps. Mr. Harlow: He did not say any thing about the behavior of the em? ployees. Mr. Betts: No, sir; I did not. I said the behavior of the lamps. Mr. Fisher: I thought you said the employees; if you said the lamps, that is all right. Have you had any ex perience in electric plants? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Do you think it proper management of an electric light com? pany that has eighty-six are lights ln service not to have a single reserve inner globe or outer globe? Answer: I consider that very poor. Question: Do you consider that proper management or a proper at tempt to live up to its contraet? Answer: No. Questions by Mr. Harlow: Queetlon: Is there any provislon that you know of in this contraet as to the amount of stock that is to be kept on hand? Mr. Betts: It says that the service is to be maintained throughout the entire time of the contraet, and that implies of eourae that the company must do everythlng in its power to keep them going. Of course the company is not obliged to keep any certain amount of stock on hand, but if ihey have not the stock to keep up the light all the time they don't Uve up to the contraet. Mr. Spinks: Here's a question that was aaked you the other night: Do you consider tlie lamp they have a proper lamp? Your answer was, No, sir. Mr. Hill asked you, Do you think tbe Alexandria Electric Com? pany is furnlshlag the city proper llghl according to the contraet made with ihe city? Vou answered, i do noi. Mr. Harlow asked you if this company is furniahlng this city prop? er light according lo the ecntract wilh the city. Here in this other report Mr. Hill asked you, Can the Alexandria Electric Company have a lamp made that will carry out ibe terms of the contract made with the city', and you answered, Yes. sir. How do you explain all that? Mr. Betta: My laterpretatlon of the contract is that it was the inton tion to furnish this city a street light ing servlce equivalent to the old street light ing service, hut I don't think they can be required to furnish that actual candle power under that, beeauae thay could not do it. The city of Newark, New Jersey. has a contract to use a flaming are light and they pay $280 per month for eacb lamp. Of couree that has a greater candle power than any other lamp, but it is used there for adver tlalng purpoaea; the city is nt pay ing that. The city couldn't pay that. Question: By pay ing more for the lights they could get that? Answer: Yes. but in this city I speak of the city pays $70 and the men hants nav tho wn'trrrr as"Kod you tlie 01 her night la it posible for you to go out tonight or in the morning and take down certain designated lamps and tell whether the coil in it w.is a 6.6 ampere coil or not? You ans? wered, I don't think so. There may be some marh on there that the fac? tory people could distinguish. Mr. Spinks: Do you consider the Fort Wayne lamp a standard lamp? You answered, I do not. Mr. Spinks: That question was aaked Mr. Kirby and he stated he did not consider that lamp the highest type lamp. Do you state ihe same thing? Y'ou answered ir. Mr. Spinks: That is the lamp tbal wai put ln? Your answer was, Yes. sir. That is the proper questlons and your replies, is it? Anawer: 1 believe so. Mr. Harlow: Mr. Betta, when you w.re aaked whether lhat is a stand? ard lamp. will you aay tliat was a standard lamp when the contract was entered Into, was it ? No answer. Mr. Spinks: Will you stale whether or not the lamp that was Installed wai tbe highest type of Fort Wayne lamp that was on the market? Mr. Betta: I think not it was a 6.6 ampere lamp Mr. Bplnks: Do you think it was ihe original inteniion of this com panj noi to give us the light we were paying for? Mr. Betta: i hardly think that. Mr. Spinks: Vou say the lamps were l.fl ampere lamps and that they should have had T.."i ampere lamps'' On the sireets tonight they ,"re burn mg those aame old lamps except thal new coila have been put in there. Here is the question, if you had the purchasing of these lamps, would you have purchased some other than the Fort Wayne lamp, and you answi r ?.!. Yes, sir. Bnt they did nol waal to buy these carbon holders at $11. lt took them more than two months lo do that, ami when it eomes to spoud Ing more than nine hundred Then 1 asked you, You don'l kaow that the present company has done anythlng to better the conditions i;. the lasi year? Your answer, No, sir. All your knowledge Is about what happened before these people came In. Yes, sir. Your ronnections with this company were levered over ? year ago. You dup't know anything about the conditions exiatlng today? Mr. Betta: ln what respeet? Mr. Spinks: Here is your answer to the question: You don't know that the present company has done any? thing io better ihe conditions in the lasi year? No, sir. You don't know anythlng about what has transpired sime you left the company? Answer: About what has trans? pired? Mr. Spinks: You don't know what the company has done since a year ago? Answer: No. sir. Mr. Fisher: 1 asked you about the change* in the ampere coils in ihe if it did not require chauges in th. other parts of the lamps, and you answered that would depend on the type of the lamp: it would not depend on lhat as to lamps manufactured by the same company in different years? Mr. Reits: Yes. sir. Mr. Fisher: How often does the Fort Wayne Company get out new lamps? Mr. Hetts: I don't know that. The] get out bulletins about once a year each of them may or may not Show little changes that are made in ihe lamp. Mr. Fisher: Have you examined .mps here? Mr. Hetts: Yes. sir. Mr. Fisher: Can you tell this com? mittee from your examination what year they were manufactured, wheth? er in 1903. or 1902, or ln 1906, or in 190S? Mr. Betts: No, I can't say. Of course they were manufactured be? fore they were sent here. That was in 1906 or 1907. Mr. Fiaher: At the time you made this report that the change had been made from 6.6 to 7.5 you did not know whether any other change in the lamp was necessary or not? Answer: No, sir; that report re? ferred to changes in the system only. Question: What do you mean by that? Answer: The amount of current used in the lamps. Prevlously the current had been 6.6 amperes. That amount did not appear to give suf ficient light, and it was necessary for them to change the coils to 7.5 so as to get a greater amount of current. Question: You did not know whether other changes in the lamp were necessary? Answer: No, sir. That would not be any recommendation as to the sys? tem; that had to do with the lamps themselves. If they had a thousand coils to take out or lamps to change this report had nothing to do with that. Question: Will you refer to your letter of January 30th again. You state in here that one lamp in par ticular which has been reported as being out every night is all right now? Answer: That was what Mr. Uhler said. Question: Tell this committee what lamp that was. Answer: I don't know. He said he saw lt every morning, I think from his house. I had borrowed some half dozen of these coiled pig tail holders and that lamp was reported as being out every night, and one of them was put in this. they made that change and then the light got better right away. Question: As a matter of fact, was that lamp on the corner of Washing? ton and Duke Streets? Answer: I don't know. Question: Did the Alexandria Electric Company buy a Westing houae lamp and put in on that cor? ner? Answer: There was a Westing house lamp sent here. but I don't know where it was put up. Questions by Mr. Harlow: Mr. Harlow: When was the Col orado Springs decision rendered? Mr. Betta: In Itol Question: This contract was <ii tered into on the 9th day of Augusi. 1&06. Is it not a fact that at that time there were a great many cities that had 1.1 ampere lamps. and tnat those lamps were regarded as being a nominal 2,000 candle power lamp? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: At the time of this con? traet it had not been determined even by ihe electric associaiion thal the 6.6 ampere lamp did not tlll these re quirements? Answer: No. sir. Question: In many places the 6.6 ampere lamp was regarded as being a nominal 2,000 candle power lamp at lhat time, was it not? Answer: If it was ever discussed it was taken for what it was. Question: Do you consider that ihe city of Alexandria has a sufficient number of lamps to light it? Answer: I would put in about four times as many candle power Tungsten lamps on the back streets. i think they bave enongb are lights, nr,.i...li,-. ^^ }yjyx ,UI11K ,?c. c:ty is Bufflclently ligbtedl Answer: I don't know that the City onght to spend any more money for light ing, but as to better lighting, four times as many lights could be put in. Question: The trees Interfere with the lighting, don't they? Answer: Yes, sir. Questions hy Mr. Fisher: Mr. Fisher: Mr. Harlow has asked abOUl Uie time in August, 1906, if the 6.6 ampere lights were not gen? erally consldered to be a 2,000 candle power lamp: assuming tbal this was BO, aml lhat among flV* hidders for this franchlae was one bidder that hid Bpeclncally for tlie 6.6 ampere lamp at the rate of $60 per year, do you ihink the hidders for this con? traet had in mind furnishing 6.6 am? pere lamp* ai ihe rale of $7.V Answer: I don'l llke lo pass my opinion on whai Mandeville thought. There aeema to be a great differeace in the oplnlona of whal he did think. I don't know what he thouxht. Question: Assuiniiig that all the blddera met with Ibe committee, ud talked over tbe queatlon all tbe bida were in, ihe bids for the 6.6, ampere lamp at $60, and the successful bid dera who bid for 2,000 candle pow? er lamps at the rate of $7.".. would you think that the successful bidder had in mind furnishing 6.6 ampere lamps? Mr. Betts: I would like perniission to read an ediiorial coininent on the deciaioa in the Colorado Springs case in which it is stated what a 6.6'ani pen lamp is. The Chairman: We have lhat in your report, I think. Mr. Petts: No; this is an editorial comment on the i The Chairman: We can get that if we want it. I don't see any reason for reading it now. Mr. Harlow: I ha\e several Ietters here that I would like to introduce from various electric i onipai.ies, and then we will close our side by ealling Mr. Weller to tbe stand. Mr. R. C. Faught being hen called, was aaked b.v Mr. Harlow: Mr. Harlow: Sinee you have com pleted your testimony, bave you ob aerved the behavior of the lamps you could see on King Street and Royal Mr. Paught: Yes. sir; B0 far as I can see they are giving full candle power and are operating satisfactor ily. Mr. Spinks: I wanf to state tbat tliat lamp you have been looking at to my knowledge was taken down last night and a new lamp was installed in its place. 1 suppose that new lamp is the one tbat is there now. ls that so, Mr. Hill? Mr. Hill: Yes. sir. Mr. Spinks: Your superintendent re, I will ask Mr. Howaell if that is true? Mr. Howaell: Yes. sir. Mr. Spinks: You can take down a lamp and put a new one up can't you? Mr. Faught: O, yes, sir; you can do that. The Ietters above referred to by Mr. Harlow and introduced by him are as follows: Richmond. Virginia. May 27, 1*07, Mr. F. U. Weller, C. II., Alexand? ria Electric Company. Hibbs Build? ing. Washington, D. C. Dear Sir:?In reply to your favor of the 26th instant in regard to the rating in candle power of enclosed are lamps please be advised that the commonly accepted candle power rat? ing of the 7 Vi series enclosed are lamp is 2.000. We attache hereto special publlca tion concerning the points for consid eratlon when purchasing series A. C. are lamps, and upon referring to pages 5 and 20 you will flnd where such ratings are referred to as above stated. If we can be of any further service we will ve very glad for you to call on us. Very truly your*. Westinghouse Elec. A M'f'g Co. per, J. C. Warren, Jr. Baltimore. May 27. 1910. Mr. F. R. Weller. Gen. Mgr. Alexan? dria Electric Company, Hlbbs Building, Washington, D. C. Dear Sir:?I have your letter of the 26th inst. in regard to the street lighting at Alexandria, and the can? dle power of the 7.5 ampere A. C. lamps. I, of course, do not know the details of your contraet, but would say that the 7.5 ampere amply fulfills the requirements of the so-called 2,000 candle power lamp, which Is, you probably know, a nominal rating for street are lamps which was adopted at the very beginning of the are lighting buslness. In later years the 2.000 candle power has come to be known by mutual consent of the lighting companies and city author ities through the country as a lamp taking 450 watts. The 7.5 ampere A. C. lamp. when adjusted for 70 to 75 volts at the are will consume from 515 to 530 watt* so that you will see that your lamps must then fulflll the requirements of the 2,000 nominal candle power. Trusting the above gives you the information desired. and assuring you I will be glad to give any further as slstance possible in this matter, I am, Yours very truly. General Electric Company, Per R. C. Faught. Sales Agent. Philadelphia, Pa.. May 27, 1910, Mr. F. R. Weller, G. If., Hlbbs Bldg.. Washington, D. C. Dear Sir:?In response to your in Quiry of the 26th inst. with referenee to the candle power rating of 7.5 ampere series enclosed type are lamps, beg to advise that the question of candle power on are lamps of var ious wattage consumption has always been ? much dlscussed point amongst llluminating and central station engi neers, Inasmoch as diffuslon and the angle of distribution have necesssrily to be taken Into consideratlon as well as the color of the light. How ever, at recent confejences of the American Institute of American Elec trical Engineers and the Naiional Electric Light Associaiion. it has been decided and therefore eatabiiahad for some years past that 7.6 ampere series A. (' are sysiem shall be rated SJ a nominal 8,000 candle power. This is consldered to hold for any and ;ill standard makes of are lamps, Inaamuch as the atreaa of competi iion reqairea aay aad all to be of nearly equal efflcleacy. Tbe standard taken for the candle power rating haa heen 6.6 am;?? re open are, which ever since its incep tion has been recognized ;ts the 2,'itm candle power aad <as the energy con aumption of the 7..r) ampere wood system is Ideatkal, if not slightly greater, than that of the 9.6 ampere open are; you are therefore furnish ing the same candle power at a dif? ferent angle of distribution from the are, but with a better distribution and general diffusion, i. e., less shad ows. In the event of my not having cov ered any polnt which you would care tO ha\e llie explain. I would bo plaan *a .- > ? ."lt this tO me, Yours very iruly, The Adams-Magnu.ll EJlec. Co. R. c. Campbell, Dist. Mgr Thereupon F. R. Weller, in answer to interrogatories propounded to him answered as foliows: Quesiions by Mr. Harlow : Mr. Harlow: You are the general manager of the Alexandria Electric Company? Mr. Weller: Yes, sir. Question: How long have you been connected witb this company? Answer: About fl year. Question: llow long have you been conected with it in the capacity of gaaeral manager? Anawer: Foi Ihe same period of I illle. -iion: Did you ever take up With Mr. Kirby wbile he v.as witb th*i company the question of are lamp-? Answer: Thal was the firsi quea? tlon we took np. In fact wa took up that question before we bought the plant. Queatlon: Did you Bnd out about it from him? Answer: Mr. Kirby on a number of occasions assured me that the lamps were all right, and were '< '_? ampere lamps. I have made ? num bei oi inspeetion trips around the city myaelf and I found them factory. Mr. Kirby told me that all the lamps had 7 ^ ampere ootl* ll them. I might state here that I know about ihis question of candle power lamps, and for that. reason we took parlicular care tO BM lhat the lamps had been changed io 7% ampere lamps. We were satisfled of that when we hoiight Ihe plant. Queatioa: whai system did you in stall for the purchase of supplies? Answer: I have found that in every plant that I had anythlng to do witb tbe greateal loss was in the purchasing depart nient. All the sup? plies are now bought on requisition from the Stiperintenrlerit here in Al? exandria. Question: When you bought the plant were you asured by Mr. Kirby and by your own investigatlon that there were 7 i? ampere colls in all the lamps'' Answr: Ye- sir. Question: Has Mr. Kirby ever drawn any reqataition on you for 7 Vi ampere coila? Answer: N'o sir, not to my knowl? edge: I kaew there were some 7 V* ampere coils on hand: I didn't reeall his ever drawing on me for any ad ditional coils. Question: Did you ask Mr. Kirby with regard to the question of coils only when you first came here? Answer: I have asked him re peatedly, and he always assured me that the lamps were all right, and he said that the dissatlsfaction did not amount to anytning. As long M he was in our employ he did not intimate that the lamps were not up to the standard. Question: Has the company ever been notified thal ihe lamps were not up to the standard? Answer: Absolutely not; we have never been notified that the service was not satisfactory; the only W we had was the notice we saw in the that Councilman Spinks had introduced a resolution to that effect into the city council. I took up the question with Mr. I'hler on several occasions, and he always assured me that the lanip> were satisfactory: I have here a letter to him whieh I would like to insert. November 12th, 1909. L. E. I'hler. Chai-man Committee on Lights, City Council. Alexandria, Va. Dear Sir: I have seen in tbe newspaper that councilman Spinks has Introduted a resolutlon in the council inquiring into the question of street llghting for the city; also inquiring as to the capacity of the Alexandria Electric Company's Plant for the demand of servlce in Alexan? dria and suburbs. Feellng that your committee would deaire Information on this subject, I take the liberty of writing for the purpose of submltting the facts ln the case. As to street are lamps the contract between the city and the Plant calls for street are lamps of 2,000 c. p. capacity. The lamps installed are known as 7.5 ampere series atreet lamps. These lamps are rated at 2,000 c. p. and said rating is accept ed by engineers central stations and municipalities. There has been a number of legal decisions which have arisen over the definition of the term candle power. The Colorado Springs case is probably the most noted and most widely quoted. Here it was decided that 7.5 ampere series are lamps were equivalent to *>000 candle power. To my personal know? ledge. I can staie that since July lat the are larnps have been on an aver age of 7.5 ampere, which ls shown on the daily log kept at the plant. As to what was done previous to that time, I have only the statement of Mr. Betts, electrlcal engineer, and Mr. Kirby, the superlntendent. Mr. Betts Informed me that prior to our purchase of the plant, the lamps com plied with the requirements of the contract. I might further state we have three regulators, and these three regulators have 1(6 are lamps, where as there are only 87 now Installed, so we have atnple capacity for the increased Of the city. The company employs one man, whose duty it is to trim the lamps and make hourly rounds of the city at night to see that all lamps are burning. During the last six months there has been no deductions by the town for outages, which, I think, shoWfl that the servlce is satisfactory. As to the capacity of the plant when we took the management of the plant on July 1st, I found the max Imum peak almost ecjual to the total capacity installed, which was 340 kilo-watte. We desired to enlarg* the plant, believlng there would be a conalderable Increaee in the use of electrtcity for llghting power, and al ? ling that with the large surplus of power nianufacturers could be in duced to come to Alexandria and also witb the idea of giving service to the suburbs. We decided to put in a steam turblne wbich rates 625 kilo watta, but has a capacity of 650; in other worda we have more than trip red the capacity of the plant, which has invojved an investment of nearly j;',0.ooo.00. Our present capacity of plant is considerably above the average for a City with the population of Alexan? dria. We estimate with the addlHon of Fort Washington, Del Ray and other suburban load, our total peak will not exeeed 606 kilo-watts for lighting. Our day load peak or motor load at the present time is about 300 kilo watts, so we will have a surplus of power at night suflicient to operate 10,000 more incandescent lamps. and many more factories in the day time. We shall be glad to have your com? mittee and also the members of the City Council make inspection of our plant, and feel sure they will be con rinced that it is the company's de sire to give satisfactory service and io he ready to meet every demand for^ ||gh| and power. I might say tlnet circuifs will be run from the power house to supply ihe suburbs, and this will not interfere with the town service. Any break down in the suburban line will not effect the city line. M is necessary, of course, tO ly Increaae our present busineas in order to pay return on the large additional investment. I shall he pleaaed to appear before your committee and furnish any fur? ther information you might require. Kesner-t fully suhmll ted, Alexandria Kleetric Co.. By F. I(. Weller, General Manager. Mr. Spinks: Did you get a reply t<; lhat letter? Answer: .Mr. Chl'-r acknowledged that to me and he said that I need noi hot her abOUl ii. tlon: Hid you buy any gas caps for Ihe are h mps? Answer: Yes. on several occas? ions. Question: You have heard the rec? ommendations which Mr. Hetts read regarding tbe Improvementa he rec onimended and which he said ought to be made; do you know to your peraonal knowledge thal those im prbvementa had been made? Aaawer: Bxcept tha trimmtag of tbe are lamps. 1 could not get Mr. Kirby to trini the lamps in BCCord ance with those directions. He said that Mr. Betts was a th.oreiical man and that he knew better. Hut when we got our new anperintendent i gave him Inatrnctlona to trini the lamps In accordance witb Mr. Betta' report. Question: Have you had an perience in eleetrical matters in cltlea Other than Alexandria? Answer: Yes, sir. I have been consulting engineer for a number o*" cltlea. I am at the present time building a plant. where I am consult? ing engineer, at Bedford City. I have been consulting erurineer for tbe city of RJcbmoad, Virginia, and for four or five tOWBB in North Caro lina, and I have had various experi ence in power plants and eleetrical work. Question: In the eleetrical world what is the generally accepted 2,000 candle power lamp? Answer: A 7'- ampere lamp is generally accepted aa such. Question: Was it at the time we entered into this contract ?? Answer: I assume so. I bad noth? ing to do with the making ofThe con? tract. Question: In all that work that you have had with different citles, and for different cities, if you agreed at this time to furnish such a lamp, would you furnish a 7% ampere lamp? Answer: In the city of Oxford, North Carolina, we have the contract as you have here, and we put in 7 l/i ampere lamps, and it is atated in the contract just as lt is ln thia, that the lamp is to be a 2,000 candle power lamp. Mr. Spinks: Where did you say this was? Answer: Oxford, North Carolina. Question: Prior to the Colorado Springs decision in 1907, were there many citles that were using 6.6 am? pere lamps, that were considered as a nominal 2,000 candle power lamp? Answer-: lt was not decided def inately until the case you mention. That always a question about which there was considerable discussion. Mr. Spinks: That contract be? tween Colorado Springs and the Hu dro Company was entered into in 1898, eight years previous to the time we entered into the contract with this company? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Even then they consid ered it as meaning a 2,000 candle power lamp? Nor answer. Mr. Spinks: That case was nothing like this. That case was settled by two prlvate partle*. Answer: It was settled by arbl trator*. of course, but the light wa* what was known commercially as 2,000 candle power. Mr. Spinks: The Colorado Springs people had to accept their light. We have never accepted this as being right. Question: What should be the proper voltage of a serie* enclosed are lamp of 2,000 candle power? Answer: Across the termlnals it should be about 77. Question: How are these currents regulated? Answer: By a constant current regulator at the power house.. Question: AU the lamps on the same circult have the same current, do they? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: And the same illumi nating power? Answer: Some lamp might act badly, of course, owlng to individual defects. but the system as a whole Is the same. Question: What would be the ef? fect of a it.6 ampere and 7.5 ampere lamp on the same circult? Answer: Why, you would be feed ing more energy into the coil of the 6.6 lamp than it ls deslgned for, and lt would burn up. Question: Would a 6.6 ampere lamp on a 7.5 ampere cireuit be bene flcial or detrimental to the company? Answer: Absolutely no beneflt. It would give more trouble than lf they were all of the same kind. of course, that is plain, I think. The smaller lamps would burn up all the time. Mr. Spinks: Three burned out last night, did they not? Answer: Not to my knowledge. Mr. Harlow: My question was, woold it be any advantage to the company? Mr. Spinks: That's our contention all the time. Question: What is the difference briefly stated between an old style Schuyler open are lamp that used to be used here and the lamp that is at present in use? Answer: The principal difference is the method of the distribution of the light. The object of putting in the inner globe is to give greater dis? tribution of light, and therefore much more satisfactory illuminatlon. The old lamp was more brilliant to look at but it did not give the light. Question: Do you think that for a city of this size there are enough in number of lamps here to properly illuminate it? Answer: I do not. Question: L'pon what do you base this opinion? Answer: I consider that this tes? timony here is given by me as a dis Interested party, as an expert en tlrely, and I don't want to be con sidered as anything else, and I do DOl hesitate to express my opinion, which is hased on the records of other cities, and citles ln this State, and my own experience that the num? ber of lights is not sufficient to prop .?rlv light the city. Question: Have you any statistics? Answer: Yes, sir. I will submit this: In Charlottesville, they have a population of 6,406, and there are 102 are lamps, Alexandria with 15, 000, 14,(00, as is shown here, has 86 are lamps; af. Clifton Forge the population is 5,300. they have 43; Covlngton, Va., population 2,950; .I,).,.,.,, .1..., >>. - >"e ? lation of 22.850, and have 278 lights; Newport News' population 28,749, 111 lamps; Norfolk 70,000, 600 are lamps: Uadford, population 3,300, 32 are lampa; South Boston. 2,800, they have 61 ; Suffolk, 2,83."), they have 26 lamp.-: U'incliester, population 6,161, 100 lampa; Annapolla 9.000, 47 are lampa; Prederick, Maryland, 9,986 population, 120 are lamps; Hagers town, Md.. 16,670, 160 lamps. I merely mention that to show what I niean. Tbeae Bgures are taken from the offlcia] blue book. Mr. Hill: Are these all run by pri vate compaiiies? Answer: No; llag.rsn.wn is a mu nlcipal plant. i think Prederick is. Mr. Fisher: 1*" they all use Fort Wayne lamps? What is ihe name of that book from which you read? Answer: McCraw's Blue Mook. Mr. Harlow: How could the light ing i.e Improved? Answer: I agrce with Mr. Betts gronp lights together. as h"> suggesi ed in the suburbs. The Chalrman: ls a lamp on every corner snmclenl'.' Answer: I think it would be. but it would be a little more expensive than putting Incandescenl lamps. Thal is tbe way ihey do in Washing? ton, and you can go over there and Jind thai the lights go out: all lamps will go out, you know; you ean't stop that. We don'l claim that these lamps are perfect. Mr. Spinks: You are here as an ex pert, you say: now don't you think there has been a large ground for complaiat bv the people of Alexan? dria? Answer: No. sir: we have found very llttle complainl outside of the City Council. We have not been not? ified that there was any complaint. Mr. Spinks: Who do you suppose the complaints would be made to by these people if it were not to their repTeseatatlves in Councilt Answer: Your Chairman of the light committee stated that he had been aatiened. Mr. Spinks: You have just read a letter there to which you said you never goi any replyf Inswef: Yes, sir. Mr. Harlow: Has this company sinee yoor associates took charge here done anythlng to improve the service generally? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: What have you done? Answer: My letter covers some of it, but one of the most important pieees of work as to improving the system, we have replaced the cross arms on these pules, whiyh has bet rered the svstem. clearing the lines of troubles. Last July the total loss in the system was I think E I per cent of the current generated. Last month it was under twenty-one. That I think shows what has been done in the way of improvement. Question: Approximately how much money have you spent while you have been here improving the service? Answer: With the extensions and the improvements to the present ser? vice between forty and forty-five thousand dollars. Of course that in cludes some expense in the country. Mr. Spinks: All that money was paat in improving the service in Alexandria city? Answer: I said ir was not. Some of it was spent in the county. Question: What have you got to say with regard to the rate for light and power in this city as compared with other citie3? Answer: It is Iower here than in other cities. The rate is three cents less than in Washington. They ought to be higher than they are. It is due to an error in the clerical force of the company the rates charg? ed now are lower than the rates named in the Mandevllle prt^vosition. It is due to a mistake by some one when the first bllls were made out. Question: In other words the Al? exandria Electric Company ia charg lng less than they are entitled to charge under the contract? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Do you know any of the experts in the Colorado Springs case? Answer: Yes, Mr. Marks. I had a conversatlon with him within the last two weeks Mr. Fisher: That conversatlon Is not proper. Mr. Harlow: Mr. Fisher cannot get away from his legal hablt of ob jecting to things. I take It that any? thing that will throw any light on the subject I think it is proper before an lnvestigatlng committee. If the com? mittee don't want to hear It, why it is all right, of course. Mr. Spinks: I don't think that is proper. You could have him come here and make the statement for him self. if you want to examine him as a wit ncss. Mr. Harlow: If the committee Is willing to hear It or if you want to hear it, we will state lt; I understand that you want light on the subject, we are trying to get it. If you don't want to hear it, that Is somethlng else. Mr. Spinks: Our testimony has all been from people who had knowledge of the conditions. All your testi? mony is from people who know noth? ing about it except the offlcials of the company. Mr. Harlow: Experts don't have to have personal knowledge. I want you to remember that all the testi? mony we have had has been from personal knowledge. Who are the present owners and directors of the company? The wltness: T. C. Coleman, Pres? ident; .1. C. If. Lucas, Vice-President, H. B. Lucas, Secretary and Treas? urer, these with Mr. Portner, are the directors. Question: Have any of them know? ledge of or experience in eleetrical matters? Answer: Mr. J. C. Lucas is the Dis? trict Manager for the Baltimore Dis? trict of the Allss Chalmers Company, aad H P Lucas ls the manager of a large eleetrical construction company in Baltimore. Questions hy Mr. Fisher: Mr. Fisher: You state that your testimony being that of an expert is impartial, and that you are here as an expert. State your experience. Answer: I have just done that. Question: Do it again. Answer: I have been engineer for a number of different citles and cor porations, I am engineer for the Ten nessee Power Company, I am engi ne.ir at the Wataugua River. I am engineer for Bedford City. Virginia, that is building an electrical watey plant on the James River, and I have bulll a number of other plants in the paat eighl years. Question: You are consulting en? gineer for five concerns, or cities that are now in process of operation or construction? Answer: One is in process of con? struction, one plant will be completed in two weeks, the other one will be begun in about two weeks. Question: They represent about three million dollars? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Where did you receive your experience in electricity? Answer: In the construction of a ......,i? . ?r plants in the last seven years. I graduaied from Columbia in the department of civil engineer ing. Question: You did not take elec? trical englneering? Answer: I took certain electrical ?ubjecte. Question: You say you are an ex pert ? Answer: I would not state that I am an expert; but I think that I know sometblng about it. Question: You state that you made an Inspeetion, and make inspections here in IOWI1? Answer: Yes. sir: all the work in the changes and Improvements has been under my supervlsion. Question: How often do you make an inspeetion? Answer: Bvery day in the week, up to a month ago. stlon: How could you devote so much of your attention to Alexan? dria when you are COUSUUlBg engi? neer for ail these other thlngsf Answer: It might be difflcult for you to understand that as a lawyer, but 1 think that anv engineer can tin dersiand that it is a matter of suf flcient assistanis. Question: Your supervision,of the Alexandria company is not personal supervision? Answer: Yes. as much as any chief engineer give* to Ihe work. Mr. Harlow: You mean personal supervision of what? Mr. Fisher: Of the whole thlng. The witness: Yes, I gave personal supervision and attention to this plant, t,his other work has begun sinoe the completlon of the Installa tion of the machinery and improve? ments here. Question: When was that comple ted? Answer: I should say not flnally until the early part or the tenth or fifteenth of N'ovember, about that tim; the turbino was completerl about that time and I made daily trips fo Alexandria then. Question: Have you ever been around town at night? Answer: Yes. sir. Question: What was the hour of your Inspeetion? Answer: Practically at all hours. Question: How often have vou been in the city of Alexandria since the completion of the ilstallation of the machinery, between I and 12 o'clock in the evening? Answer: At least once a week. Question: Where do you go? Answer: Dhfereal plaees. I don't think that Is a ipiestion for the com? mittee. Question: Of course, I mean on business Is not thp only condition you see the condition on "ing Btreet and al tbe plant and offlc. .' Answer: No, lookine around from King Street you can see the lamps in four or five different directions, and coming up Duke Street and Royal Street and Prince. I have been out in this section of the town at night. Question: You say you have a man who makes an hourly visit to see that the lamps are all right? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Don't you mean that he makes it three times a night? Answer: He makes a report every morning. If he seea that a lamp needs fixing on the first round he flxes It and then he goes back to see how lt Is. Question: Does he only go to with? in a square of the lamps or to the lamps? Answer: He ls supposed to see whether the lamp ls burning or not. Question: You say before you pur chased this plant you were satisfled lt was a 7.5 ampere syitem, what ex amlnation did you rntke to satlsfy yourself of that? Answer: I went to tie plant and saw the regulators. Ta?y bad the proper plate on them, and I wrote to the Fort Wayne Company, and aaked if the coils had been changed, and I received a letter in reply which I will read. I had Mr. Mandeville write the letter, because he waa the man they knew in the matter. Here ls the letter which is dated June 28, 1909, and is addressed to Mr. Man? deville: Dear Sir: Referring to our conversatlon this morning relative to the are lamp situation at Alexandria would state that we have changed over all of the are lamps in Alexan? dria from 6Vi to 7% amperes. The wrlter will see you the fore part of next month as requested. Yours very truly, T. L. Sturgeon, Manager, Philadelphia Offlee, per C. A. Wool sey. Question: Accordlng lo that the Fort Wayne people made the change? Answer: They furnished the parts. Question: In June, 1009, was Mr. Mandeville connected with thia com? pany? Answer: We purchased the plant through him, and he Knew these peo? ple, which was why he wrote. Question: He was not connected with the company? Answer: I don't know what hia official connection was. We bought the plant through him. Question: You say your superln tendent here makes requisltion on you for supplies. Do you always honor them? Answer: Yes, sir; on one or two occasions we have cut down the amount. Question: Within what time has a requlsition been made on you for outer and inner globes. Answer: About ten days ago for inner globes and three weeks ago for outer globes, and I was informed four days ago that they would be ln Ahxandria yesterday. They told me on the phone at the National Electric Supply Company in Washington. Mr. Howsell tells me that your com? mittee asked for two inner globes yesterday and he had them on hand all day, bur they have not been call? ed for. Mr. Spinks: I understand he had to take them off the street.}. Mr. Fisher: The committee can get the globes tomorrow. can riiey? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: You say you never re? ceived any coniplaint about bad ser? vlce? Answer: Never any official coni? plaint. Question: DId you receive an un offlcial complaint? Answer: Mr. I'hler told me that some of the lamps burned red Question: Did you ever offer for Mr. I'hler to have an examination made? Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Why? Answer: I felt we wer-? unjusii eritieised Question: I thought you had nevje heard any complaint. Answer: I heard, of course, tha: in Council we were complained of. Question: I understood yo uto say you heard nothing until you heard .Mr. Spinks had offered this resolutiou in Council. Answer: I said that I had no bffi clal complaint from Council Question: I asked you if you did not offer to Mr. I'hler to have an ex pert go over the plant. Answer: Yes, sir. Question: Why? Answer: Because we felt that the people in ihe City Council did not un derstand the situation. We wanted to stop the unjust criiici.sm. Question: When did you first. get your information about the ? critieisin? Answer: O, 1 don't know ihai; has been dlacnssed ? gi ni Mtf in Council. Question: In your br.-r ol rember 11, you refea* to a in Council, and you saiil heard of any complaints im until this resolutiou here ? dnead by Mr. spinks. tlll'ee weeks agO. Answer: This resolutlon? QueStloa: You said you had 00 noi ice from Council? Answer: No official notlci Question: Nor informal notlceJ Answer: Kxeept from Mr. Lhler. Question: You say you had no complaitJl from Mr. Uhler and this letter was wrltten before the reisolu tion was introduced Into Counvtl why did you wriie the letter? Answer: The letter ezDlalas M?eif. I think. it aeema to be dear. Question: You have said tiia. pre \ious to this you had no convor-ai mn Witb Mr. (Jbler and no m.iice of any complaint, ye( you offered th..? inspection be made? Answer: I will say that I have had a number of converaationa with Mr. i'hler; bow many of tbeae converee* tiona praeaded thal letter i don't know. I made the poaitive offer on l.ehalf of the company to have an ex? pert go over the situation, and If we were wrong we would make such ohangea aa were aeo aaary nnd would pay the costa of the expert. Queatlon: Then you are not posi tlvc you did nor receive a complaint previona to thia resolutfon being in troduced into Council? aaawer: i lald I had a talk with Mr. Ihl.r. Mr. Harrison: Mr. fjbler as Chalr? man of the Gas Light Committee, is authorized to talk to th-* siiperin tendeal of the Alexandria Flectric Company and any matter he brings before that committee or that the committee wanis brought to the at? tention of any one he has full author Itj to do it. Question: You wrote this letter on Noveriiber 12th, aml presurne It was after the resolution in Council. Did you at any time prevtous to the let? ter, previous to the introductfon of the resolution in Council ever re? ceive a complaint from any member of the City Council ln regard to your service? Aaawer: This is about the third time that I have said that Mr. I'hler told me that the lamps were burning red. That is the only complaint we have ever had. Question: Did you not. make this offer to Mr. I'hler about the inspee? tion previous to November \'l, HI09? Answer: I don't know about that. Question: If there had been no coi, plaints, would there have been any occasion to make the offer? Answer: I don't know aboht that. The Chairman: It Is getting late now, and if the gentlemen here want to catch the last train, they will have to go now. I don't want to ln terrupt you. but they will have to go if they want to get the train. Mr. Harlow: We can reeall Mr. Wtdier at any time. I suppose you will be in town. Answer: I am expecting to leave the city for two or three days, but I will be back the flrst of next week. And after that I am at your disposal. The committee thereupon adjourn ed.