The times dispatch. [volume], February 04, 1912, INDUSTRIAL SECTION, Image 13

About The times dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1903-1914

Image provided by: Library of Virginia; Richmond, VA

                
THE TIMXS FOUNDED IKi
THE DISPATCH FOUND.-jj UOC
RICHMOND, VA., SUN! rAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1912.
Financial,
Manufacturing,
Real Estate.
PRICE FIVE CENTS.
Southern Conditions
and Those of Other Sec?
tions of the Country.
BETTER CHANCES
DOWN IN DIXIE
Virginia, the Carolinas and Other
States Offer Superior Induce?
ments to the Thrifty Wage
Earner?Better Living
Conditions and More
Chance to Prosper.
IIV W. J. LAVCK.
Tii.. condition of labor In the South
aa compared with other sections of
the United State? h:iH been a favorite
fopls during recnt years tor popular
a'rlters on existing Industrial condi?
tions. Many of thn writer; and social
?vorher? who have Hooded trie prcas
with articles of this description, how?
ever, have b*en constrained more of?
ten by their emotions or by a tendency
to lay stress upon the sensational and
plcturcjjquo rather than by a desiro to
Know the truth and to set forth the
facts impartiuily. Unfortunately, how?
ever, ihtdr constant reiterations led
many Intelligent persons to assume
that the conditions of labor In t.ie
South, to say the least, was tar from
satisfactory! H almost came to pass
that the public unconsciously assumed
n backward state of Industrial condi?
tions In the Southern States In very
much the same way that trfey gave
thtlr undlscrlmlnnttng assent to the
Darwinian theory of < volution, or to
the laws of gravitation. It has fe
qulrcd several years of official in?
vestigation to dispel effectively this
preconceived and unwarranted as?
sumption.
Uu\ crnmrmol investigation.
T.io most severe jolt, this more or
loss crystallized state of pubjj mind
relative to Southern Indusir , condi?
tions received came lrom the results
of the. Women ami Child Labor In?
vestigation by the United States
Bureau of Labor carried on during the
period 1008-1510.
Investigations somewhat later by
the. eame bureau of the Bethlehem.
Pennsylvania, labor troubles, and later
the acale of wages, and condition of
employment 1.. the Iron and steel in?
dustry as a whole, gave a further and
Instructive insight Into contemporary
industrial affairs. The Senate Select
Committee on e.ost of living, in ?10,
also made a comparative study of
wages and cost of living In the North
and South. The Federal Tariff Board
has uleo worked out a comparison of
money wages in the cotton goods
manufacturing Industry. Furthermore
the British Board of Trade covered
the North as well as the South in 1U09
In studying wages and cost of living
in the industrial sections of this
country. More important In this con?
nection, however, than all oti.jrs nave
been the bpeclal studies of the United
Stales Immigration Commlaalon. which
conducted exhaustive inquiries Into;
wages, conditions of employment, and
Standard? and coata of living of wage
earners In the principal branches or
mining and m nufacturing In the
North and South and otnor sections or
the United States.
Vindication of the South.
These impartial studies by the
I'nited Slates and British govern?
ments have resulted In a complete
vindication of the south. The radical
statements relative to Southern In?
dustrial conditions, which were before
accepted without question, have been
discovered to be without foundation.
On the other hand, a state of In?
dustrial affairs haa been disclosed In
the Middle, New Fmgland. and Wcst
, 111 States, which had not before been
generally reullzed, or known to exist.
As regards women and child labor,
the United States Bureau of L* bor. af?
ter its painstaking and extensive in?
quiry; reached the conclualon that the
extent and conditions of employment
of women and children in Southern
mills and factories had been greatly
exaggerated and that there had been
no basis for statements, which had
been given wide circulation.
As a matter of fact, the conditions
surrounding the employment of womon
and children were generally aa good
in tae Southern States aa elsewhere,
and a great deal bettor than in some
localities. The hours of work per
day and per week, as a rule, were
shown to bo longer In tho South than
in the Nortb, but it was also ascer?
tained that radical reductions In
working hours had been made during
lieent years, and were still being put
into efCect. i ..o rates ot money wages
paid in the South, aa a genera] proposi?
tion, were al60 discovered to bo lower
r than in the North. In this connection,
however, it was found through gov
? rnmental investigation that there had
. been remarkable lncreaaes during th?>
past few years In money ratea of pay?
ment. In many Induatrlos, such as I
' cotton gooda manufacturing, money
' rates of payment were, discovered to
i be rapidly approaching the same level
v as in I ho North. For unskilled labor,
I wages were about tho same aa clae
I where. In tho bituminous coal mines
I of the South, employes were found to
f. be earning more, than In some occupa
[ Hons in the mines of Western Penn
! sylvanla. Tho most significant fact
I disclosed, however, was the lower coat
I of living among wagp-cariiers in tho
South. This condition of affatrB
E cauacs an approximate equality with
\ reai wogos In other sections, which
I the money ratea of wages would not
'; Indicate. ,
Another saliont feature resulting
j from governmental investigation is the
tact, not hitherto fully appreciated,
', I hat the Southern manufacturer and
mine operator has had to deal with an
inferior and unsatisfactory labor sup?
ply. In tho faco of thoso conditions,
although' money wngca havo often
boon low in tho South. In reality labor
costs have often been higher than in
the Middle States or In Now England,
(Continued on second page).
RICHMOND'S NEWEST BIG INDUSTRY
KUXE MOTOR CAR CORPORATION'S PLANT.
THE CANTAWE
A MONEY-MAKER
Virginia Especially Adapted to
Culture of Luscious Melon.
Instructive Booklets Free.
P. H. La?aume, tho agricultural anil
Industrial agent of the Norfolk and
Western Railway, with headquarters
In Rounoke, tvritca me on Interesting
letter on the subject of cantaloupe I
culture and shows what a ><> uiitaolej
business it la when tho fruit or the
vegetable, whichever it is, shall be
properly grown and cared tor, and!
then tells me that he has some finely]
Illustrated booklets on the subject
which aro for free distribution to sons
and daughters of Virginia, farmers who
want lo learn all about how to suc?
cessfully jjtow cantaloup-.*. He says:
"No other product of the American
garden has recently been in such de?
mand.at high prices as the high grade
cantaloupe of half a dozen leading
varieties. It is also one of the most'
prfolltable crops that can be raised,
and from $100 to as high as $600 or
rnoro per acre is frequently obtained
from one crop of this luscious fruit. In
districts like Rocky Ford. Colorado,;
where from 1,000 to l,2uu carloads are)
shippeu every year, one can readily,
understand what it means to the grow-l
era who depend on cantaloupes entire?
ly for their revenue.
Reaches Perfection lo Virginia,
"The cantaloupe can bo grown in
almost all sections of Virginia, and
in tho Tldowater section it as grown
In its highest perfection when good
seed is used and proper culture me?
thods aro followed. Many peopio who
attempt to grow them secure indif?
ferent results, because they do not;
realize the needs of the crop or seem
to appreciate the fact 'hat Judgment
and skill aro required to meet the
! varying conditions. The question 01^
seed, soil, planting, cultivation, mois-.
I tu re, combating pests, picking and
j harvesting aro all pertinent factors in
successful cantaloupe growing. Onoj
lot tho most important po;nts Is to se-|
cure the early maturing of the crop.j
because tho high prioea received for,
the first cantaloupes In the market ot-|
fer a large reward for tho grower
who Is able to mature hla crop in ad?
vance of his neighbors."
Chance for Dora nnd Girls.
And now comes the practically in?
teresting part of LaBaume's letter. He
says:
"I have secured some very attractive
booklets, tllustratcd In color nnd giv?
ing a fund of information relative to
the most approved methods of. growing
this crop. It tells all a'nr.ut tho pre?
paration of the soil, tho selection of
the seed, cultivation, harvesting, pack?
ing and marketing. It iilsc tells all
about tho tools used In cantaloupe cul
turo and describes the plunt's diseases
and how to control them. It is a beau?
tiful book, well bound nnd nicely Il?
lustrated, and will be sent to any Vir?
ginia farmer's son or daughter who Is!
interested in developing the old home:
and making It pay a satisfactory pro?
fit. Boys and girls, here is something
that you can take Into ?onsl?erntion
In connection with your corn clubs
and tomato ? clubs."
Now, dear boys and girl*, ye sons and
daughters of wide-awake Virginia
farmors, If you . want tho beautiful
booklet and tvili promise to mako good
use of it, just write to F. H. I>eBauihe,
Agricultural and Industrial Agent;
Norfolk and Woatcrn ' Hallway, Roa
noko, Va. 8. W. '
- '?' ?'-?VKr.V.vtj.?:'<?ivfit.
views and near views,
hints and suggestions
Has Education 1 un Mao??lh= Doctrine th"? In?
dustrial Section Lias B e Preaching?Nj
Irrigation Required in Virginia?iW;
crermonb on tute G o>.. Koaut> iext.
BV FRANK S. WOODSOJf,
Industrial IMIiiir.
This column m oi>cn to contributor*
wliu have Humctulug to any of a nug
Cc>Uvc nature autl uhn are billing |u
naukc hints and suggentluaiM looi.uig to
(tit- heiter development of the good t>ld
S'.ate* of Virginia, Weal Virginia anil
North roro'lna, und Mho can holil their
suggestions down la auy one lHHue to
from l.'.n to -no hhkIh. Such mm
niunlcutlons, addressed to the Indus?
trial Editor, will receive prompt at?
tention.
Some of tho membors of the Legisla?
ture, notably Speaker Byrd and Repre?
sentative Love, of Lunenburg county,
seem to be under tho impression that
Virginia has gone education mad, and
that entirely too many frills are being
added to the public school system of
the State. I wonder whit they will
think of this bit of Information which
I gather from an exchangt: "The Au?
thorities of the Oregon Agricultural
College have established a course in
camp cooking which should prove
highly useful. Men taking this course
will bo trained In the p.-cparation not
only of the staple foods used by
woodsmen, but of pastry and many
other articles seldom seon In lumber
camps."
I have visited some of the lumber?
ing and sawmill camps ;n the deep
forests of Virginia, and on several oc?
casions have dined with the lumber?
men. The indifferent cooking and the
poor use made of the food supplies to
mo was amazing. perhaps It Is of
some such experience as this In the
forests of Oregon that the authorities
of tho Agricultural College of that
State have decided to make this re?
markable educational innovation. 1
guess the. Virginia Polytechnic Insti?
tute will never establish a lumber?
man's cooking department, but If it
should I can very well imaglno what
an Important person one of its gradu?
ates would be in and ?xrounrf the big
sawmill camps down !n the Kostern
part of the State.
Strong Doci rlnc Well Indorsed.
"Here Is a strong doctiine that the
Industrial Section has been preaching
for years anil, it must l e said, has
been preaching It with good effect In
Old Virginia." So writes my friend,
W, E. at., of Washington county. In?
closing the following, clipped by him
from nn Ohio paper:
"Progress Is not so much a matter
of government patronage as It Is of
Judgment and elbow grease. Every
cornlleld could be made to yield twice
as much as It docs by t!:o application
of these forces. There Id not nn or?
chard that wiii noi scatter diamonds
when attended to with card and spray?
ing. And as to live stock?the milk
product can be almost doubled by
weeding out poor milk cows and us?
ing puro-bred sires.
"The real progress of this world- Is
based on self-reliance, and the true
manhood upon Independence This'na?
tion can grow to the (croateat wealth
and power through tnd exorcise, of
these high qualities. Then our coun?
try will be great nn-.l strong." .
Where-the Clouds Irrigate.
Here la n letter that. Is full of sug?
gestion between the Hues:., "Cull for
. A-','-": ' ' '?' ??' -!? ? ?
nla is starting early to get all that is
I coining to mal State oui of the Pana?
ma Canal imposition, scneduied lor
tnree years hvnce. I am being Hood?
ed wjth literature trom that lur away
Slate, it comes mainly from real es?
tate agents and farm lani sellers, who,
in their printed matter, toll brief at?
tention to the coming exposition and
then lire away at great length about
the farm lands, etc., of California. In
one of these elaborate 'write ups' 1
i was struck with the following para?
graph:
"The dependable farm ia one that can
be irrigated. The best soil !n the world
1 is valueless without moisture. In this
?; valley we have the happy combination
: of rich soil and an abundance of water
. for irrigation."
"True, true, 'ihe best soli in the
world la valueless without moisture,
and right here in Old Virginia we have
tho best soil in the world and- don't
have to go to the enormous expense or
irrigation to gel tho necccsary mois?
ture..! have nothing ag.iir.j-t the lands
of California, or any oL'ier State, but
for the life of me I don't see where
the Virginia boy can do any better in
the land way than right here in the
old State, Where ihe rains come at the
right time and Irrigation is unneces
j sary. R. H. L.."
A Word About Good llond".
! Here Is another note that Is full of
: meat: "Yesterday I read lr- The Tlmes
Iilspatch, the fountain head of all In?
formation worth having, that ?byer
I Wilson were mumping their heads to?
gether and working out a plan for
I more roud building in Virginia. By
I the free use ol convicts t> <i with the
I use of all the cash they could find in
sight they could not sea ? over $250.000
' in labor and cash that the State can
I spend, and it looks an if they have
got to do a great deal of begging to
get that, an?! when they do get it
the most of it Is In tra.le. that is. con
j vlct labor.
"I had hardly flnisho.1 reading that
before I came across a news Item that
told me th.it the State Legislature of
I New York has proposed to umend the
, State Constitution so that that Sale
can Issue, bonds to the amount of $100.'
: O?o.OOO for highway building. Think
I Of that! $100.000,000 to lie immediately
: available, and money that cornea easy
and will be paid easy for good roads
! so increase values and profits thot pay?
ments come easy.
"Of course. Virginia Is not aa rich
an New York, nothing like 11, and I
doubt If she could sell bonds,, but the
eountlea can, especially if they can
get some kind of State, indorsement.
The present Legislature can do more
for good roads than it seepia dlspo3cd
to do. Of course, the State la hard up
and adyawa will be and always ought
to be, for thnt matter, lent' there'Is no
one thing that will loosen up Stato
! and county flnarices any quicker than
'good roads. I would like to talk more,
on this suDject. but I have already ox
ceeded your 2"?-word limit. I am juat
hinting now. GLOUGL B. L."
Some More IJnod Bonds Tdk.
Hero is sonic more talk on the over
present and ever lntereating subject:
talk' that is qtlltn a mixture of good
polities, good roads fany lalrly goo:l
~ "cc?ntlnutil on Third rox?
lime mwm
FOR IKE FARMERS
Some of the Arguments of Op?
ponents of the "Lime Bill"
Answered.
DOINGS IN OTHER STATES
i -__
'.Louisa County Man Hits a Snag
lf and Cleverly Floats
I, Around It.
BY JAMES HAUT QUISEXBEKRV,
Of Fredericks IInil, Va.
While in Kichmond last week I had
occasion to vls.t the legislative halls
in search of our House and Senate
representatives, and while there 1 in
| quired of one of the members present
for my own representati told this
member (a perfect stranger to mej
I that 1 was in search of my represcnta
live, and that my business w.,th him
! was to find out his ott'tude on the
i lime bill. "Oh," he said, "If your
man Is from' Louisa I suppose he is
for the bill, I am not, however, and
I am going to vote against it because
1 think It is wrong." "Well," I asked,
"in what way is it wrong"'" And here
we. have the. nrguments advanced by
said representative against our bill:
I Argument No. 1?It Is wrong be?
cause it is class legislation. It Is
! only for some of the people.
I Argument No. i?\\'hy, -t simply
means that you are going to spend
?2&.000 or ?30,?0a and will accomplish
nothing,
Argument No. 3?You never knew
the State to accomplish anything as
cheaply as an Individual; and .sine*
this conversation there comes out an
article against this groat 'measure
based on the argument that this will
lnjuro private Interests In the Stale.
Now. let us briefly noli > tnu afore?
mentioned representative's arguments
.n tho order given, and tnen notice the
. argument of the newspaper article rc
i fcrre'd to.
I Answer to Argument No 1?Will tho
gentleman please cite the instance of
nr. appropriation affecting all the peo?
ple exactly alike'.' Is a measure af?
fecting the great Interest upon which
rests all t"ie future of every other in?
dustry, and the very luture of our
Commonwealth, iiriv more paternhItalic
thnn one for road hnproyem? nt, or
for harbors, rivers, etc.? Does ho not
know that the cause of the present
! languid'condition ot our agriculture is
I in Kreut part due to tne. fact that
governmental old and fostering earn
nas been extended to Its other Inter?
ests, and at the neglect of Its agricul?
ture?
Lives, there a soti| so dean to the
voice of thii history of tho rise and
fall of nations, t'.uit he docs not know
that when you vitalize the agriculture
of a country you. neccssar'ly help
every other legitimate interest wlth
ln Its bounds?
Can any, member ot our legislative
courts calmly and dispassionately note,
the difference, between our rate of In?
crease of .population, und that of in?
let-cane of product oi the>fawii, with?
out being Impressed with the med of
Immediate action to enable the latter
to meet' the requirements of the form?
er ?
Argument No. 2?"You will spend
l?Jo?tliiuett o? Third Fa^eTjT
AUTOS MADE HERE
IN BIG RICHMOND
Kline Corporation Breaks Ground
for a Big Factory in
West End.
PLANT ALL WILL BE PROUD OF
Richmond. Automobile Making
Centre of the South?Money
and Energy Combined.
More than a year ago. may ho two
years ago, the Industrial Section sot
forth the idea that tctchmond la
geographically and otherwise the logi?
cal point for the manufacture of auto?
mobiles. The facts, and 'teures show?
ing the wonderful growth of this in?
dustry In the Middle Weet, and too
big prorlta It had brought to Detroit
and other cities In that region, were
brought out in bold relief, and the
question was asked, why should not
Itichmond get Into thin sw.m. Wise
men read the Industrial Section, and
wtso men ogreen that the Industrial
Section was dead right- Wise, men
have decided that Richmond ,s natur?
ally or'can he made to be the auto?
mobile-making centre of the South
country.
It would take up ton much space to
tell Juat how it all came about. The
bare facts In the case arc all that the
average reader Is Interested in. und
the bare facts are that ere. long Itich
mond Is going to be a big automobile
manufacturing centre. Tho story of
the organization here several months
ago of the Kline Motor Cur Corpora?
tion has already been told in these
columns and It ia useless now to go
into details. H is sullicleril to say
that local capital |.? 'nvested in the
enterprise, and that It Is an enter?
prise that Klchmond Is proud of and
will bocomo proiidei still when the
i big plant gets well to work, as it win
I do some time between now and the
I next Independence Day; that is to say
I July I.
PI? Things on Ahead.
j The Kline Company, of Richmond,
Is n leg concern, and It is going to flo
big- things right here m I'lchmond. It
! has nlrcudy done a considerable stunt,
' for It could not wait for the erection
of its home plant, hut as soon as
organised and capitalised under a
charter granted by tip; Stale Corpora?
tion Commission it went to work to
. puts its ears on the market, having
I them built at York, Pa., under it con
' tract already made,
! The ilrst thing tho company did af?
ter organ!/11Ion was to buy the cars.
I the rights and the patents of the
Kline Compiny. of Pennsylvania, and
under the terms of tho purchase the
right to continue the manufacture of
tho cars'at York, Pa., was reserved.
In the meantime, the corporation look
! bd around In Richmond for a site for
I a big factory.
nis Acreage Investment.
Fifteen' acres of lani were bought
in the extreme Western SeCTlon, a way
out on ihe Boulevard, butting up
against the Fair ground's property
The grounds have a frontage of 1,300
feet on the Seaboard A|r-LIne Ball
! way's property and ' 1,23$ feet oh tite
Boulevard. Thus the very best of
shipping facilities were acquired and
i tc?"mTnvi?d"ou .thlrU~p?gcTx ~"
Notwithstanding Cold
Weather, the Agents
Are Kept Quite Busy,
MUCH ACTIVITY
IN THE WEST END
Some Good Sales Downtown,
Reticent Agents Let Out a
Few Facts?Enough to Show
How Things Are Going.
Various Suburban
Notes.
Notwithstanding much cold weather,
and tho cold spell is unusually tena
cious for this region of country, the
real estato agents of Richmond were
fairly busy the past week. They are
busy all the time, aa for that matter.
If they are not busy making sales
they arc very active In office work
and planning for bettor things when
the sun shall again shine bnght and
when tho frozen streets and the worse
frozen suburban roads shall thaw out.
Last weak the transactions that wore
actually made amounted to something
Ike a quarter of a million dollars In
the city, and out in the suburbs and
the other deals that were hung upon
the string, subject to future consum?
mation, wcro largely more than double
ttiat amount. Tho hanging of things
on the string generally keeps tho
agents Just an busy as the actual buy?
ing and selling and so, taking the
two things together the real estate
men had a mighty busy time.
This matter of hanging things on
the string some folks are inclined to
laugh at it, but there must be a start
to everything, even a real estate deal.
The "hanging on the string" is often
the start that finally ends In transac
. tlons of gigantic proportions.
Actual Work Done.
' But leaving all of that kind of bu?
: Iness aside there waa really some gooo.
business tho past week. I have heard
' of several right big deale, but few
j of which 1 can got the actual par
1 ticulara about. One of these involves
, tho sale of a whole block on Cedar
j Street, or more properly speaking oi\
Davis Avenue, to the south of Main
Street. Tho only Information obtain?
able iB that the purchase was made by
a contractor who proposoa In tho early
spring to erect a whole block of
houses on tho purchased property,
which will be for rent to wago-earn
lng people.
Rlchcson & Crutchfleld tell about
' some big aales thoy mado between tho
cold waves. Among them was ths
property, Nob. 1633-36-37 East Frank?
lin Street, for which they got ?17,500.
They sold the property for H. S. Wal
lerstcln, but tho name of tne purchas?
er, who bought as an Investment, la
withheld. This Arm also sold a good
deal of property on Meadow Street
and In other parts of the city, which
made their week's bueln'st, foot up
about $60,000.
Many Sales By Many Agents.
C. A. Rose Company aold 517-10-21
and 23 North Ninth Street for $11,000.
j They also sold 201, 203. 205 207 and
200 East Clay Street for ijO.OOO, and
200 East Main Street for $16,000.
Pollard & Bagby sold about $20,000
worth of good Richmond dirt lp vari?
ous parta of tho city, but they aro
reticent aa to particulars.
N. W. Bowc & Son hud good busi?
ness, and their salea amounted to $40,
000. but they have no particulars to
give out.
Ca meal & Son report good business
for a cold week, business that amount?
ed in the aggregate to $30,000.
W. E. Purcell, Jr., Company tell of
several West End deals that footed up
$25.000.
J. A. Connelly i Co. made some largo
: salea the past week, whkh they hesi?
tate to tell about, but they say these
sales nnd some other big things that
(are on the string Indient-i good enough
business when the ground thaws.
Vj. A. Catlin & Co. sold considerable
property during the week. Including
some valuable realty on East Main
Street, between Twentieth and Twen
' ty-ilrst Streets, which ivr.s bought by
I Strauae Gunst & Co., who will Improve
j the stores and likely occupy them for
their own business.
West 1; riil Ilnnitieth.
As already announced >i these col
i umna. Williams it Cease mado for a
1 syndicate a largo purchase of land
i fronting on the Boulevarl. This eyn
j dlcato has decided to put this property
on tho market, cut up lato tirst-class
building lots. Already several lota
have been sold to people who proposo
i to build at once. Tiler,- art some, prop
J Or restrictions that havers will havo
j to regard, but they arc In no way ob
; jcctlonablc.
There were some other big deals
I made In the extreme Wcat End durlns
I the week, but because of the retl
eense of the agents particulars arc
lacking.
Meiling Lots ut Wholesale,
But speaking of the West End: It
Is not an unusual thing for Richmond
real estate agents to sell haif a dozen,
or even ? dozen lota to one man. but
l when a fellow la lucky enough to dls
1 pose of fifty lots In one lump. It is
! something outside of tha ordinary, and
j worthy of public mentlcn. This was
the <ase last week with J. Thompson
? Brown & Co.. who sohl to a speculator
lot Richmond fifty lota in tho western
part of the city In one bunch. Tho
party buying these lots appreciated the
possibilities for future enhancement in
value, and purchased thorn- purely for
speculation. Beyong comtrmlng these,
facts, Messrs. Brown ?- Co. did not
feel at liborty to mention the name of
the buyer, but only tho bare facta. Con?
tracts, however, were signed and tho
deed will pass this week.
The aamo firm also reports several
sales of leaser Importance, J. Thomp?
son Brown & Co. also tell of increasing
demand for real estate mans, which,
in their opinion, is a most excellent,
sign of renewed business activity. On
being ivakod for particulars along this
line, they stated they handled pos?I
|'y .$60,000 or more In Mai estate se?
curities for various p:i'.t:ea In jnew
tv^tln??! on"thir\? page-)