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VCSUME XVI. US VECAS. CLARK COUNTY. NEVADA. S'TUROAV. NOVEMBER IV- 'BBS NUMBER'S
A DROP TOO liCH OF POM FATAL Airplane Plunges to Ground From Height of 75 Feet.— Pilot Not Injured The only real thrill experience by Vegas as the result of the visit of the airplanes on Thanksgiving, was a mishap to the small exhibition plane "Poison,” which left the ground and reached a height of abmt 75 feet. Then the motor stopped and Poison poked her nose into the ground with considerable force, doing some damage to the machine. Mr. C. O. Prest, owner and pilot of the plane, escaped with a slight shaking up. There were some skeptics who were sure that Poison would not fly. The machine proved otherwise by leaving the ground in nice shape. The stoppage of the motor was caus ed by the fact that castor oil used for lubricating the rotary engine with which the plarb is equipped, was carelessly put in the gasoline tank. Naturally, when the motor began to call for gas, It got castor oil and there was nothing further doing. The damage to the plane consists of same damage to the anding gear and small damage to one of the wings. The propellor was not broken. Mr. Prest is now considering as to whether he shajl repair Poison, or use the motor and other parts In con structing a small monoplane for ex hibition flights. He is thinking seri ously of doing the latter, building the plane in Vegas. Mr. C. O. Prest, who has establish ed a reputation as one of the most successful pilots in the country, in voicing his impression of Las Vegas, made the following statement: “Las Vegas possesses remarkable natural attributes to make It as good, or even a better flying country than Southern California. “The cimate here is wonderful. The air is good and storms are few and well heralded before they break. Then for miles and miles around the country is flat and a anding, if neces sary, could be made almost any place. The altitude, of course, has some ef fect on a ship, but not enough so that it makes a great deal of differ ence. “We would like to see this aviation proposition backed by every citizen of Las Vegas and the surrounding country. You have done a wonder ful thing to have taken it this far, but now is just the time to either make It or break it. “Bringing machines here is only a question of permanently establishing a field. If that is here the machines will come. "Commercially, the establishing of a field here would benefit Las Vegas. It will be only a matter of a short time before Uncle Sam will have his mall planes bound from Salt Lake to Los Angeles, and then Las Vegas, if it has a good field to offer, will no doubt be put on the route. “A plane here will also bring such towns as Goodsprings, Searchlight, Goldfield, Tonopah, Carson City, Re no, St. George and Mo^pa Valley into close communication with Las Vegas. This would be a valuable business asset.” PRISON POPULATION LOW; WARDEN EXPECTS MORE The population of Nevada’s peni-! tentiary now is ninety-four convicts, which is likely to be cut slightly by the action of the present session of the pardon board, but which undoubt edly will be boosted to the century mark by coming terms of court in various counties, is he opinion of R. B. Henrichs, warden of the prison, who is spending Thanksgiving in Re-1 no. The present mark is not the lowest; the prison has had. About a year ago the number of inmates was eighty-six which is the lowest number on rec ord within recent years. The prison population has enjoyed a steady de- j cline since the prohibition law went into effect.—Reno Gazette. BORN ZINZUN: In'this city, Tuesday, November 23, 1920, to Mr. and Mrs. Genaro Zinzun, a daugher, Miss Ruth. Dr. Mildren reports that all are doin*, nicely. Mrs. A. J. Feetham, who has been employed as housekeeper and office assistant for the Las Vegas Land & Water Company at the rooming house, was taken to the Los Angeles Hospital the first of the week seri ously ill. Although she is reported much better, she will not return to Vegas, but under advice of her phy sician, will remain in Los Angeles. Gus Pendleton and Jas. S. Abbott of Bunkerville were in this city early in the week. Levy Syphus and Wm. H. Sellers of St. Thomas were in Vegas yester day. Sir Oliver Lodge says dying is as easy as discarding an old pair of pants. Wih a lot of us in Las Vegas it’s easier. James McCoy, a former resident of Vegas but now residing in Los Ange les, is here for a few days stay. Mr. McCoy when here was part owner of the Manganese Association. HARDING’S mm IN ill5628 Oddie Defeated Henderson Bv 1148 Votes.—Arentz Won Bv 4432 Votes CARSON, Nov. 23.—United States Senator Tasker L. Oddie was elected over the Incumbent Charles B. Hen derson, by exactly 1148 votes at the general election on November 2 and Samuel S. Arentz secured 4432 more votes than his nearest rival, the pres ent congressman, Chas. R. Evans, ac cording to figures compiled by Secre tary Brodigan from returns of elec tion received from the various coun ty clerks of the state. The figures are from duplicates of abstracts of votes which will be canvassed by the su preme court justices in this city on December 20. Miss Boyd Leads Delle B. Boyd, Louis G. Campbell and H. V. Moorehouse, Republican presidential electors, are shown to have received 5G2S, 5565, and 5551 more votes respectively than their nearest rival, William Forman, who headed the list of Democratic presi dential electors in the matter of votes received. Ben W. Coeman, Non-Partisan, re tains his position as justice of the supreme court by virtue of a majori ty of 4892 over J. Emmet Wash, Non-Partisan and George F. Talbot, Non-Partisan for ten-year term of regent of the university, defeated A. E. Cheney, Non-Partisan, for the same office by 611. B. F. Culrer, who had no opposition as Non-Partisan candidate for two-year regent of the university, received 17,467 votes. Curiosity of Vote Although the total vote ror unitea States senator, the highest total vote for any office, was 1864 higher than the vote for the same office in 1918, Henderson received 1795 votes less than he received two years ago. Od die ran 295 behind the figure he re ceived at the 1918 election when he was a candidate against Emmet D. Boyle for governor. Anne Martin polled 4981 votes, 378 more than she received for the same office a the previous general election. The proposed amendments to the state constitution, giving the supreme court jurisdiction in appeals in crim inal cases where the offense charged is within the original jurisdiction of the district court and allowing the governor to call district judges to sit on the supreme bench in place of disabled or disqualified justices, was carried by a majority of 8800 votes. Most Votes for Senator The returns show that the highest number of votes cast in the entire state was for United States senator, 27,427 persons voting for the four senatorial candidates, 27,093 voted for President and 27,320 for congress man. For senator, Henderson carried Elko, Clark, Humboldt, Lincoln and White Pine counties, the others be ing carried by Oddie. Arentz car ried fifteen counties, tieing Evans in Humboldt. Evans carried Clark only. Anne Martin, independent candi date for senator, polled her highest votes in Washoe, Nye and White Pine counties. In Esmeralda county she ran twenty votes ahead of Hen derson. Washoe Polls Most Votes Washoe county led the state in the number of votes cast with 6924, Nye polled 2879, and Elko 2542. The small est vote recorded was in Eureka where the total vote was 508. The total Socialist vote in the state was 1858.—Reno Gazette. CHARGE AGAINST FLAGMAN PILFERING FROM PULLMAN Ray Jarman was held to answer before the district court on a charge of burglarizing a Pullman sleeper up on completion of his preliminary hear ing before Judge Lillis today. His bond is fixed at $2,000. Frank A. Stevens, acting district attorney, ap peared for the state and Richard Busteed for the defendant. The charge against Jarman is that he took a hand bag from under the berth in which Miss Wanda Smith was sleeping, on fij-st No. 1, in the earv morning of November 5th. That he took it to the lavatory and opened it, taking $16 in bills therefrom. The evidence on behalf of the state was to a certain extent circumstantial, but the defense waived making a statement. Testimony was given by Miss Smith, Sammons, the sleeping car porter, Mr. Roach, a fellow traveler on the train, George A. Goodwin, con ductor and others. TEACHERS ARE GRANTED A BONUS ON SALARIES At a meeting of the Board of Trus tees of the Las Vegas Grammar Schools held November 23rd, a re quest from the teachers that salaries be advanced, was considered. The reason for asking the raise were summed up as: Increased rates for travel to and from their homes. In crease in room rents and increas in costs of foodstuffs and clothing. In view of the fact that contracts are in effect with all teachers, the board decided to gratn a bonus of 12 per cent on present salaries to be paid to all teachers fullfllling their contracts for the year’s work. THESE ARE FINAL FIGURES OF NEVADA VOTE I f Igl K 2 OB £ 3 it 2 . 3 B 1 • i - <? 0 1 I * h'KESIDEN TIAL. ELiEUTOnS: William Forman. (Democrat) .... Sarah J. George, (Democrat) . Robert W. Hesson, (Democrat) ... Delle E. Boyd, (Republican) ... Louis G. Campbell, (Republican).. H. V. Moorehouse, (Republican).. Al. Emerick, (Socialist) . J. L. Russell, (Socialist) . Joseph York, (Socialist) . UNITED~STAfES~SENATOR: Charles B. Henderson, (Democrat^ James Jepson, (Socialist) . Anne Martin, (Independent) . Tasker L. Oddie, (Republican) ... REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS: Samuel S. Arentz, (Reupblican) .. Jerry Donovan, (Socialist) . • Charles R. Evans, (Democrat) ... Paul Jones, (Independent) . JUSTICE SUPREME COURT: Ben W. Coleman. (Non-Partisan). J. Emmet Walsh, (Non-Partisan). REGENT UNIVERSITY: “ (Ten Year Term) A. E. Cheney, (Non-Partisan) .... George P. Talbot, (Non-Partisan). (Two Year Term) B. P. Curler, (Non-Partisan). constitutionaiT'^mendmentT Yes ... No . 50R 620f 147 1029 347 157'532*254'366 344 209 1007 413 389 272*2357 902! 9851 - 504 622 146 10241344jl57(531 253 365 344 208; 986 411(386 269(2338 895 9783 - 502 618 146 1032 343 1571531 252 365 343 208 979 413 386 270 2335 895( 9775 - 873 589 503 1369466 313(660 416 373 945 374 1576 692 563(324(4189 1354 15479 5628 871 585 499 1366 462 3131662 418 373 939 372 1669 595 l>62 324(4153 1353(15416 5566 868 581 497 1358 460 313(660|415 372 939 373 1567 595 563 325(4160 1356 15402 5551 237j 1111 6 123(127 21 92 39 44119 46 316 19 44 21 319 180 1864 - 235 111! 5 123 127 21 94 39 42 118 46 319 19 45! 21 317 179 1861 - 235 109 5| 123jl27 21 92 38 43 117 46 314j 19 44 21 317 178 1849 - 560 770*200*1463 276 194 511 268 351 320 171 933(417 369*231 2374 994 10402 - 84" 35| 1 33: 16 9j 24 5 15 42, 9 66 15 7 3, 81. 49 494 .... 267 185! 60: 299:296 104 280142 193 2641161 686, 37(241 1261075 5751 4981 702 346 404) 747(353j2011485|297|235j76C(293 1212(556;402!298j3394j 859 11550 1148 774 534 485 1161 397 263 560'28413701846'277 1360 577^12 312*3278 1159 13599 4432 191 75j 4 87i• 64 16, 71 241 42|100 29 195| 18: 22 27, 131 109. 1205 - 482 643 143 987 376!169j560;226i244 311 191 1094,360 289:249 1819 924 9167 - 89! 28| 18| 2041109 47; 85 164, 15,134[l24 246, 67|141j 54:1602 232; 3349 - r it ti r nr r r i i 869^590 395 1376:3301330!6141417|462 724 233 1450 629 793 261|3538 1928; 14939:4892 420;545j228! 854 556,139 5S3|236|284j564 364 1188 39l|l50|363 2787 395|l0047|.... 570 399 232 671 299 209542 219:195 501 210 975 330 465 192 3677^ 955 10641 - 540!5841330 1362j390 194!482'347150115011256 1342 521,343!316;2180,1063; 112521 611 957 867 420 1598 547 322863 437j564^6891380 1975 676 647|371 494611208j 17467! — I I I I | j | I j 670 736:24311082 505 213'549 3241406 601 315 1130[427 459 272 2877 1251 jl2060 8800 168| 96| 711 254:133 140:205 771 53,100: 80| 460, 93|142| 92j 844| 252; 3260: YOUR CHRISTMAS BUYING Now that we are fast approaching the Christmas season it is but fitting to call the attention of Las Vegas people to the advisability of making it just as happy for those nearest home as we possibly can. And in this respect there are many ways of shedding sunshine right around home that a lot of people are unacquainted with. Take the matter of the Christmas present itself. Had you realized that the Christmas gift bought right here at home brings out more happiness than the one purchased in a distant city? The gift itself is just as good if purchased here, and the one who receives it will be just as well pleas ed with it. But when it is bought here at home the clerk who sold it is made happy, and the merchant in Whose store you purchased it—and he is your neighbor—has additional cause for wishing you and your fam ily a merry Christmas. From now on to Christmas this pa per will contain announcements of those merchants who are in position to sell you Christmas goods that are just as pretty, just as servicable and lust as reasonably priced as you can get elsewhere. If the thing you want is not in stock they will quickly get it for you. So why rush to some dis tant city and buy that which you can get at home, and hand your money to someone you will never see again and from whom you couldn’t get a favor no matter how badly you might need it? Think it over—and then watch closely the columns of this pa per. Watch them for the ads of your neighbors—your friends—and read those ads with profit to yourself. MADE A FLIGHT OVER TO GOODSPRINGS CAMP Dr. R. F. O’Brien and A. W. Ham took a little spin this afternoon in the Pacific-Standard plane with Em ery H. Rogers as pilot. The round trip was made in one hour, quite a contrast with the mode of travel in vogue in this region 20 years ago. AFTER THE RAILROADS ON QUESTION OF FARE§ The Nevada public service com mission has ordered the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific and Los An geles and Salt Lake railways to show cause why they should not put in ef fect in Nevada the basic passenger fare of 3.6 cents per mile charged for intrastate traffic in other states. The present rates charged by the lines named varies from four to seven cents per mile in Nevada. Dining car charges are also involved in the case. The matter has been set for hearing in Carson City December 15th.—Car son City News. PRISONERS PAROLED The board of parole recently grant ed paroles to prisoners from Clark county as follows: Harry L. Daugherty, burglary, ef fective when he has served 5t& years with credits; Frank Johnson, forg ery, effective immeiately; Leo F. Rivard, issuing fictitious check, ef fective when the Oregon authorities call for him or when he has served three years with credits. Munro Brown is spending a few days in Los Angeles on business. Mrs. C. E. Burdick of Searchlight is spending a few days in this city. Advertising pays in the everything except telling the reading public your troubles. The Las Vegas man who argues that all men are thieves will gener ally bear watching. ALL WERE THANWPUL — Las Vegas people seem to have had ample reason for being thankful this Thanksgiving Day. There were a large number of pleasant family gath ! erings and plenty of turkey for all. Among the pleasant affairs which i have come to our notice, are the fol l lowing: Mrs. Dora Lee entertained Mr. and Mrs. F. W. Eglington, Miss Gardner and Miss Casey at Thanksgiving din ner. Mr. and Mrs. C. M. McGovern en tertained Mr. and Mrs. H. A. Harmon and family. • Judge and Mrs. Wbl Orr had as their guests Mr. and Mrs. E. W. Nun i gesser, R. H. Cabell and S. W. War ! ing of Searchlight. Mr. and Mrs. Joe McQuade enter tained Mr. and Mrs. Charles Ireland and Mr. and Mrs. Robert Potts. Mr. and Mrs. Chas. Ronnow had a family dinner, their guests being Mr. and Mrs. A. S. Henderson, Wanda and Alice Henderson, Mrs. A. H. Norris, Eva and Thelma Norpis, Estella and Gerald Crow, and Ed. W. Clark. Mr. and Mrs. W. R. Bracken, Mr. and Mrs. W. E. Ferron, Mr. and Mrs. W. L. Copper, were guests at the Will Beckley home. Mrs. Lela Hicks entertained her son and family, of Arden, and her daughter from the East, who is her guest, at dinner Thanksgiving even ing. Mr. and Mrs. Leo McNamee had as dinner guests Mrs. Isabella McChrys tal and daughter, Bobbie, and Mr. W. H. Pike. Messrs. Harry Anderson and Rob ert Hausler were hosts at a Thanks giving dinner served at the Railway Eating House. The affair was in hon or of visiting aviators. Those pres ent were Emery H. Rogers, C. O. Prest, H. T. Hill, R. F. O’Brien, A. W. Ham, C. S. Cohn, Mr. and Mrs. Chas. Cookey, Harry Anderson, Miss Sher wood, Bob Hausler, Miss Brown, Clarence Stocker, L. W. Stocker, Har ry Cressman and Jack Fagan. Mr. and Mrs. C. P. Ball and family and Mr. and Mrs. Jack Hudson were the guests of Mr. and Mrs. Al. Moser. Mr. and Mrs. Jack Price and Mr. and Mrs. R. F. O’Brien entertained at dinner at the Price home, their guests being Mr. and Mrt. Harry Blanding, Mr. and Mrs. John Light foot, Mr. and Mrs. C. E. Pembroke, and A. W. Ham. Mr. and Mrs. J. M. Ullom and Mrs. Henrietta Brockman dined at the Geo. Ullom home. Mr. and Mrs. Lloyd Ullom and Jack McGruder were guests a the home of Mrs. Coughlin. Dr. and Mrs. C. E. Bulette had as their guests at Thanksgiving, Mr. and Mrs. B. F. Whitmire, Mr. Evans,! and Dr. Neame, Mrs. Bulette’s sister.! Mr. and Mrs. M. J. Sullivan enter tained with a family dinner, their guests being Mrs. Sullivan’s aunt, Mrs. Peterson, of Upland, Calif., and a sister, Miss Bertha Hojris, of Den mark. Mr. and Mrs. W. N. Schuyler had as their guests. Misses Kipp, Clongh and Wolff, and Messrs Boyer and Ed. South. Mr. and Mrs. Ira MacFarland, Dr. and Mrs. R. Wr. Martin and family, Dr. and Mrs. Forrest Mildren, Mr. and Mrs. N. E. Williams and daugh ter, Mrs. Florence Doherty and fam ily, Mrs. Mary Anderson, and Hugh Welk were guests at the C. P. Squires home. Mr. and Mrs. Albert Frehner of St. Thomas and Mr. Frehner’s broth er of Littlefield, spent Thanksgiving with Mr. and Mrs. Stowell Whitney at the Clark ranch. Mr. and Mrs. A. G. Hurd entertain ed Mrs. Lillian Colton, the Misses Colton and Roderick Colton at a de licious dinner Thanksgiving. Misses Coen and Andruss had Miss ATHLETIC EVENTS OF THANKSGIVING DAY Basket Ball Games and Boxing and Wrestling Matches Af ford Good Sport The Thanksgiving Day athletic events were held in the High School Auditorium and were well patronized. In the Basket ball game, Bunker ville vs. Clark County High School, the Bunkerville boys were earfiijr vic tors with a score of 53 to 24. The members of the two teams were: Bunkerville—Leavitt, Leavitt, Cox, Graft, Waite, Leavitt, Pulsipher. C. C. H. S.—Noblitt, Schuyler, Mor rison, Tracht, Jones. The game played by Bunkerville vs. Big Five also resulted in a vic tory for Bunkerville, the score being 50 to 27. In this game the players were: Bunkerville—Hunt, Hardy, can non, Graft, Cox. Big Five—Wilson, Rich, Vaughn, Mudgett, Earl, Stacy, Bailey. The Shop Boys Team came off vic torious by a narrow margin in their game against Bunkerville, the score standing 27 to 23. The teams lined up as follows: Shop—Westlake, Silk, Lee, Kramer, Fahey, Harnandez. Bunkerville-—Ralston, Cox, Cannon, Hardy, Graft. The program arranged by the New Las Vegas Athletic Club opened with a four rounds bout between Young Valencia and Battling Tony. The de cision was a draw, although Valen cia appeared to have his opponent outclassed. W. Duncan and Ernest Kessler fol lowed with a wrestling bout in which Kessler was far outclassed, Duncan getting the first fall in 4 minutes and the second in three minutes. Johnnie Silk won from N. Y. Kid in their four round boxing bout, which was fast and clever. The enthusiast ic crowd rained silver on the stage and the winner gathered up $12.20. Ray Jarman and Mickie Mailin then went on for four rounds, which furnished the fans with a lot of fun, and everyone went home well pleas ed. Mr. Leavitt, of Ogden, Utah, who at present holds the light weight championship of his home town, challenged anyone of his weight for the next meet, and Mickie Mailin of this city accepted. The Athletic Clob boys wish, through the Age, to thank the school board, teachers and the Grammar School Band for their support and assistance. t EPISCOPAL GUILD DINNER WAS GRATIFYING SUCCESS The dinner given by the ladies of the Episcopal Guild was a most grati fying success, a sum in excess of $300 being cleared for the church. Mrs. C. E. Bulette, chairman of the | committee, had charge of the affair and its success is largely due to her indefatigable efforts. The ladies all worked with vigor and are entitled to thanks for the splendid home cooked meals they enabled the com munity to enjoy. Lucile Potter as their guest at din nerfl Mr. and Mrs. Howard Conklin en tertained a company, consisting of Mrs. Elizabeth Conklin. Mr. and Mrs. Howard Turner, and Messrs. C. J. Black. H. D. Black and Archie Mc Donald. Prof, and Mrs. J. F. Mayes had Prof. Raitt as their Thanksgiving dinner guest. VENICE TO VEGAS IN 4 MEMO MINllltS Pacific Standard Plane Makes Successful Flight From Pacific Coast Mr. Emery H. Rogers, manager of the Pacific Standard Alrpane and Sup ply Company, drove a Pacific Stand ard Model 0X5 plane from Venice to Las Vegas Tuesday the 23rd. the flying time being 4 hours and 40 min utes. Mr. Rogers was accompanied i bl Mr. H. T. Hill as mechanician. The start was made at Venice at 11:30 a. m., and Yermo was reached at 1:20 p. m. Here a stop was made for gas. The plane left Yermo at 2:00 and arrived in Vegas at 4:50. making a perfect landing on the field south of Vegas. Speaking of his trip, this being the first time a plane has flown from the coast to Las Vegas, Mr. Rogers said: "This is a wonderful country to fly over, the air is so clear, and the view so extensive. The coloring of the mountains is ever changing and has remarkable beauty and attraction for the traveler. Then, because of the numerous dry lake beds, a land ing can be picked anywhere with per fect safety in case of emergency. "The maximum altitude reached on the trip was 7,000 feet. “We met with a great reception at the field estabished by the energy of Mr. Hausler and the progressive peo ple of Las Vegas. “The Plane used was a Pacific Standard Model OX5 three passenger job, the most economical and safe plane on the market. This plane sells for only $3,850. and yet it will do the work of a $9,000 eastern plane. Las Vegas should seize this oppor tunity to Install planes in her new field to hold the interest of the peo ple and to show the government that they mean business and want the aerial mail to come this way. we are the largest aircraft house in the west and can give that class of service on all planes which we sell, that you expect from a. good au tomobile house. The time to secure a plane here, at this ideal location is now. “The total cost for oil and gas on the trip from the coast to Las Vegas was $12.25, carrying two people and all baggage.” Numerous flights were made by Mr. Rogers with passengers. Thanks giving Day and there was a general expression of a feeling of security while driving through the air which was entirely unexpected by the Inex perienced. It may be of some in terest to know that per mile of trav el. fewer passengers are injured or killed by airplane accidens than in automobile accidents. The science of air navigation has made immense strides lately and the airplane as a means of transportation has taken a place as one of the safest methods known. The old fear which was nurtured during the early experimen tal days of flying by the numerous mishapk, has gradually passed. Great planes are making three trips each day between London and Paris in the worst climate in the world for flying, without accident. Mr. Rogers states that during the year he was in charge of Chaplin field at Los An geles, they carried over 3,000 passen gers without the slightest injury to any or any damage whatever to the planes. Mr. Rogers is still here but expects to fly back to Venice within the next day or two. FORMER VEGAS ATTORNEY PARTNER OF EARL ROGERS Edmon G. Bennett, formerly of the firm of Breeze and Bennett of this city, but recently practicing law in Los Angeles, has formed a partner ship with Earl Rogers, the famous criminal trial lawyer. The office is in the Washington building, Los An geles. The announcement of the partner ship states that other lawyers will be soon associated with the firm and permanent offices opened. major McCarthy now ~ STATIONED AT DOUGLAS Maj. C. E. McCarthy is now sta tioned at Douglas, Arizona, with the 48th U. S. Infantry. During and since the war. he was attached to the gen eral staff at Washington. Maj. McCarthy was for some time prior to the war county assessor of Clark county. CHRISTMAS VACATION BEGINS DECEMBER 23 The Christmas vacation of the Las Vegas Grammar Schools will begin December 23 and last until January 3, when school will open. This will give the teachers a chance to go home for the holiday if they wish. COOPERATIVE STORE The shelving is being put in the Levy buiding foj* the Las Vegas Cooperative store. It is hoped to have the stock in place and the store open for business about the middle of December. They are advocating jails for pro fiteers again, but for some reason they never get any further than ad vocating.