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The Sentinel=record. (Hot Springs, Ark.) 1900-current, January 17, 1913, Image 1

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Persistent link: https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn89051285/1913-01-17/ed-1/seq-1/

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___ M HOT springs that receives the full associated press report over leased wires
.-,_ - VOLUME XXXII. HOT SPRINGS, ARKANSAS, FRIDAY, JANUARY 17, 1913. NO. 87.
__
COY BULAS
ARRESTED
WITNESS IN JOHNSON MURDER
CASE SWEARS HE FALSIFIED
ON WITNESS STAND.
PERJURY WARRANT IS ISSUED
Bulas Indicates That His Testimony
Was "Suggested” by Prosecution,
And He Hoped to be Helped in
Minor Charge Mgain^t Him.
Coy Bulas, a young countryman,
witness in the Johnston murder case,
who the day before, testified to hav
ing seen Shepman, tlhe man Johnston
is charged with killing, show a large
roll of bill® to himself and Johnston,
just before Shepman was missing,
yesterday morning added another
sensation to the trial when he took
the stand and swore that, the evidence
he gave tlhe day before was false.
"And you swore falsely when you
swore you had been at Johnston's
house?” asked Attorney Thurston P.
Farmer, for the defense.
"Sure.” was one of Bulas' charac
teristic answers.
Probably never before in circuit
court hag truth and falsity been so
jumbled and juggled by a witness in,
the trial of a serious case as by this
flaxen-haired young man in this case
where a man's life is in tlhe balance.
Bulas has offered many distinct sen
sations. His first sensation was
when he volunteered a motive to the
state's contention that Johnston kill
ed Shepman. He saw a big roll of
bills exhibited between the man
charged with murder and the miss
ing man.
His next sensation was when he
testified -that big visit was one day
later fhan It should have been to fit
the theory of th° state. And his next
sensation was the cross-examina
tion when he swore that it was some
time after the second week in No
vember that he vtislted Johnston’s
house. Shepman had been dead a
month, and •Johnston- had been held
In jail a month, deprived of bond, at
the time Bulas fixed his visit to ‘.hem
Then came the climax of all sen
sations, when yesterday morning, re
called for further cross-examination,
Bulas startled court, attorneys, jur
ors and court attendants with evi
dence, the following of whinh are
excerpts therefrom:
“When were you first brought into
the case?”
"Yesterday morning.”
"Have you had any inducements of
fered to testify in this case?”
"No sir, only things that were told
me.”
"Did any one tell you of anything
they would do for you?”
’'No, they didbi’tt tell what they
would do for me."
'1Has anyone made any suggestion
to you as to wlhat you should testify?”
"Yes, sir.”
"Who was that?’’
“Why. that gentleman there (point
ing t6 Whittington) and another one.
came in there and took me out of the
jail down here, and carried me up in
a room and went to talking to me.
Of course I didn't know a thing,
nothing about it. until after they had
commenced to talking to me.”
“Didn't know anything about
viihat?”
“About the case at all.”
“When you say you didn't know
anything about the case what do
you mean?’’
"Why, what I got up and testified.”
“You mean to say that you didn't
go out there to Johnsons?”
“Yes, sir."
“Then you testlhed falsely about
what you stated yesterday'!"
“Yes, sir."
"Well, who was the other man be
sides till is gentleman here? How
many others were there present?”
“Just one more.”
“I>o you know Will 'Laughlin?”
"No, sir.”
“What kind of looking man was
there with you?”
"Why he was dressed in a kind of
light ilirown suit.”
“Was it Will Laughlin, the city de
tective?"'
“Yes, sir.”
“You have been kept in this room,
I understand you to say, yesterday
and the day before?”
“.Yes.”
“And they told you to testify to
the matters that you testified to
yesterday?”
“Yes, sir.”
“What did they tell you they would
do for you if you would testify for
them?”
“They asked me was me and Mr*
Johnston good friends.”
"I told them as far as I knew we
were, and they told me it wouldn't be
any harm for me, and wouldn’t get
me in trouble at all.”
“Are you not under arrest, you or
your brother?”
“Why, they got me lor grand lar
ceny.”
"Did Mr. LauKhlin say anything to
you or suggest to y«u that he would
help you out of that trouble If you
would testify to what you did?”
"No, sir, Mr. Laughlin never said
a word to me about it at all."
"How did you happen to testify
yesterday as you did?”
"Why, because 1 was told a whole
lot of these things.”
"You wore told to do that?"
"Yes, sir.”
Deputy Whittington then examined
tike witness:
"You don't mean to say that any
body told you you would get out of
your trouble if you i,'-stified in this
case, do you?”
"I was told it would help me out a
whole lot.”
"Who told you that?”
"Some gentleman In there talking
to me.”
"You don’t mean to say that I told
you It would help you if you testified
in this case, do you?”
"Why you told me it wouldn’t get
me into any trouble.”
"Did I tell you to tell the truth
about what you knew about this
ease?”
"Why, 1 didn't know a thing about
It until you all come in there talk
ing to me.”
"Didn’t you tell me you knew about
It?”
“I told you 1 knew Mr. Shopman
and Mr. .Johnston, also.”
“Didn’t I ask you when you were
at his house, and didn't you tell me
it was on Wednesday before this
body was found?”
"You told me and asked mo-”
"I told you what/ Didn’t I ask
you if you were there at (his house
at any time before this body was
found?”
"No, sir, not at all, that I know
of.”
"Didn’t you tell me that you were
there on Wednesday night before?"
"No, sir.”
"Didn’t I ask you what you saw
there?”
"No, sir.”
"Didn't you tell me In the presence
of Mr Witt that you saw Johnston
and Shepman theie and that you
were therp with them?”
“No, sir."
“What did you tell me?”
"Why, you asked me these things
and I thought it would he-1 was
on Mr. Johnston's side, so you all
asked me about these things. 1
didn’t know nothing about how Shep
man was dressed, or nothing abouti
it: what kind of shirt he had on, or
clothes, until you all mentioned
something about it.”
“Didn’t 1 ask yon what kind of a
dhirt he had on. and you said a
white shirt, and a pink flower?”
"After you told me.” >
“Did I suggest anything to you or
did you tell me voluntarily without
my suggesting anything to you?”
“No, sir, only what 1 heard you
say.”
“Didn't I tell you to tell nothing
but the truth, and if you didn't know
anything about the case 1 didn t. want
you to tell it, but if you did know 1
wanted you to tell It?”
“No, sir.”
,4I)o you mean to say that. I didn't
tell you that I wanted you to tell
nothing but the truth if you knew
anything about this ease?”
"You told me to tell the truth about
what you were all talking about.”
“I told you to tell the truth about
anything you knew -.’tout the case;
isn't that a fact?”
"No, isir, no more than what I
said.”
"Isn't it a fact that 1 did not at
any time ever hold out any hope of
reward or tell you that you would
get out of any trouble of any charac
ter?”
"Well, you said you would see that
I come out all right.
"Do you mean to say that 1 told
you I would see that you got out of
CONTINUED ON PAGE TWO.
__ ■
' - -
DICTIONARY COUPON No. 69
Thla Coupon, clipped from the Mnlln.l Record for .lx cone.cu.W.
daye. and the expenee bonus named below,
choice of three different styles of the
NEW WEBSTERIAN (1912) DICTIONARY, ILLUSTRATED,
six coupons end 98c-A $4.00 Dictionary, bound In limp Jeather.
Six coupons and 81c-A $3.00 Dictionary bound m ha f leather.
Six coupons and 48c-A $2.00 Dictionary bound >" cl°th<
(See description and conditions on another page).
Friday, .January 1 *. 1 •*J
_ _1
FOR JUDGE
REVENUE COMMISSIONER MAKES
SENSATIONAL CHARGES
AGAINST U. S. COURT.
SHIELD LIQUOR VIOLATIONS
Charged That Judge Aided Distillers
to Beat Government Out of Large
Sum—Protected Men Accused
of Frauds.
Washington, Jan. Hi.— a sensation
al report by Royal ®. Cabell, commis
sioner of internal revenue, to Secre
tary MacVoagh, telling with caustic
criticism of alleged whisky frauds in
North Carolina and of the course of
the federal court, presided over by
District Judge Boyd of Greensboro,
N. C.. in dealing with the conditions,
was made public here today by the
house committee on expenditures in
the treasury department, which has
undertaken an investigation of the
situation.
Mr. Cabell describes the conditions
in the case, directed against D. C.
Foster, a distiller of Williams N. C.,
and N. Glenn Williams, the alleged
purchaser of the whisky in question
as “a history of frauds against the
government embracing debauchery of
employes, bribery of revenue officers
and successful theft.”
The commissioner declares that
Judge Boyd has issued three injunc
tions to restrain the government from
seizing and selling the whisky for
taxes. He points out that his author
ity to act under the revenue laws and
adds in reference to the injunctions:
“In view of the positive and em
phatic language of the supreme court,
it would scum incredible that the
court should lend itself to the consid
eration of so plain a violation of law
as this proceeding is.”
The case began with the seizure
in 1905 of the rectifying plant known
as “Old Nick,” at Williams, N. C„
not far from Winston-Salem. The
seizure was made on what the reve
nue officers charge were frauds dis
covered in a two-year investigation
that resulted in the indictment of N.
Glenn Williams, D. I-y Kennedy, L).
C. Foster and others Their com
pany was found guilty, and Williams
and Kennedy acquitted. The commis
sioner ordered the distillers to give
a new bond and later because of the
alleged frauds, ordered the whisky
seized and sold for taxes. In three
moves iu this direction be was en
joined by Judge Bovd. The last ef
fort of the commissioner contemplat
ed the transfer of the whisky to a
general bonded warehouse at Louis
ville. The issue is pending in the
courts.
Mr. Cabell said that the official re
ports appeared to demonstrate that
the “Old Nick” distillery company
bad disposed of Its properly so that
there were no longer any assets from
which to collect a judgment, and said
that evidence Indicated that during
one period the frauds ran from $250
to $500 a day. The commissioner
told of heated language between him
self and R. H. McNeill, attorney for
the distillery In connection with th*
case when he declared McNeill said
the bureau was allowing itself to be
used to wreak personal and political
vengeance on Williams and that
Williams had powerful friends who
would not see him injured. The
commissioner said Mr. McNeill re
ferred to Judge Boyd among others
in this connection.
There are now stored near Wil
liam, in an out of the way place, re
port concluded, “more than 600 bar
rels of whisky on which $40,000 tax
is due this government anil mere $re
large claims pending. If the distiller
could be apprehended and brought to
justice, lie would he convicted, prob
ably imprisoned and heavily fined.
In addition to the internal revenue
frauds in which the claimant, N.
Glenn Williams, has figured, he
stands today convinced by a jury,
though sentence has yet to be Im
posed, on account of frauds against
the postoffice department.. For a
long time it has been necessary to
maintain day and night guards at a
cost of thousands of dollars to pro
tect these spirits in this distillery.”
Mr. Cabell later will testify before
the committee.
DRASTIC CHAUFFEUR BILL.
Albany, N. Y.. Jan. 16.—"I don’t
think we ought to countenance drunk
en chauffeurs. Sober ones have hard
work in avoiding pedestrains.”
Thus spoke Gov. Suker tonight as
he signed his first law as chief ex
ecutive of the state. The new law
provides for one year's imprisonment,
or a fine of $500 or both as punish
ment for an intoxicated chauffeur
operating a car.
EXPLORERS MEET.
_
Amundson, Peary and Shockleton
Guest', of Philadelphia Society.
Philadelphia, Jan. 16.—Three of the
world’s foremost explorers, Capt.
iRoal Amundsen, discoverer of the
South Pole, Admiral Robert E. Peary,
discoverer of the North Pole and
Lieut. Sir Krnst Shacklelon of the
Britisl} navy, author and explorer,
were guests of honor at a reception
by the Arts Club there tonight.
Prominent among other guests was
Amos Bonsall of Philadelphia, the last
surviving member of the Elisha Kent
Kane arctic expedition, which went
in search of Sir John Franklin’s ill
fated party in 1856. Mr. Bonsall is
<84 years old.
About 1,000 person* attended the
reception, including men of promin
ence from many parts of the coun
try.
THINK VESSEL LOST.
All Hope For Heavy-Laden Eldorado
is Given up.
Galveston, Texas, .inn. Hi.—That
Morgan line officials (have given up
all hope for (he steamship Eldorado,
now eight days over due at Galveston,
from Baltimore, was expressed to
night by General Manager J. W.
Jungen, who arrived from New York.
“I have no hopes of her being
found,” said Mr. Jungen.
Her cargo consisting of 2,000 gross
tons of steel rails, together with thsj
heavy storm that she (has encountered
incl her being this long over-due
makes it appear as if she is lost.
Captain W. E. Woods, her master,
is a single man. residing in New
York. He has been with the line
eleven years. Her chief officer, Wm.
Gower also resides in New York, and
her chief engineer. Chas. Herbert,
comes from Algiers, La.
The crew, including officers num
bers 39 men.
WANTS INAUGURAL
BALL OMITTED
WILSON WRITES TO THE CHAIR
MAN OF THE INAUGURATION
COMMITTEE.
Trenton, N. J„ Jan. 16.—President
Elect Wilson favors abolishment of
the inaugural ball. This became
known today when he sent a letter to
Wm. Corcoran Eustic, chairman of
the inauguration committee, usklng
"im to consider the feasibility of omit
ting it.
Mr. Wilson's letter follows:
“My Dear Mr. Eustis:—After taking
counsel with a great many persons
and assessing as well as I could gen
eral opinion in the matter, I have come
to the conclusion that it is my duty
to ask you to consider the feasibility
of omitting the inaugural ball alto
“I do this with a great deal of hesi
tation, because I don’t wish to inter,
fere with settled practices or with
reasonable expectations of those’who
usually go to enjoy the inauguration,
but it has come to wear tile aspect
of a sort of public duty because of the,
largo indirect expense upon the gov
ernment incidental to it and because
these balls have ceased to be neces
sary to the enjoyment of the visitors.
"I hope most sincerely that this re
quest will in no way embarrass you
and that. I have not too long delayed
in making the suggestion.
"With cordial regards, sincerely,
(Signed) WOODROW WILSON.
Among several conferences help by
Gov. Wilson today was one with Sen
ator-Elect Broussard of Louisiana, who
had 'been invited by the governor to
talk over various matters, particularly
the question of abolishing the com
merce court. Mr. Wilson had no com
ment to make on the subject, after the
conference. Mr. Broussard expressed
i himself as in favor of maintaining the
commerce court or a court of equal
jurisdiction. ,
BRITISH S EAMER
ENCOUNT SS HURRICANE
WAS IN BADLY BATTERED CONDI
TION WHEN SHE REACHED
QUEENSTOWN.
Queenstown, Jan. 16.—The British
steamer Almerlao, from Galveston and
Newport News for Liverpool, came
into Queenstown’s harbor today crip
pled and battered. On passage Kin-,
dall, the signalled that she was no;
under control and needed assistance,
but 'nevertheless she arrived hero
under her own steam.
The Almerian encountered a hurri
cane January 10. The next day she
shipped a big sea, wnich killed a
sailor, swept r.ie decks clean, smash
ed the steering gear and stove in the
hatches. It appeared as though tht
steamer would founder before repairs
were made.
The Lord Erne, from Cardiff. Janu
ary 6, for New York, took the Al
merian in tow January 12, but her
| hawsers snapped, and she had to give
I up tiie attempt. The Almerian then
1 shaped her course for Queenstown.
GEORGE RYAN I
ACCORDING TO WARRANT SWORN
OUT BY FRANK FOX, INDI
ANA'S $20,000 VICTIM.
CASE CALLED THIS MORNING
According to the Fox Story Ryan Was
“Miller of the 101 Ranch,” and a
Western Player of Great For
tune at Roulette.
Yesterday a warrant for the arrest
of {Jeorge Ryan, charging grand lar
ceny in connection with the robbery
of $20,000 through a confidence game
in wihich Frank i’. Fox of Terre Haute
was the victim.
The warrant was placed in the
hands of Sheriff Williams, who went
to serve it and found t Hat Ryan was
missing. Friends of Ryan, however,
believe that he will surrender to an
swer the warrant today, and that he
will make no attempt to leave the city.
Ryan was seen about the city Wed
nesday, and even as late as Thurs
day morning.
According to the story Fox has
told ills counsel of the circumstances
in which he was robbed, Ryan was
introduced to him as “Mr. Miller, of
the 101 Ranch,” and a westerner who
1 luyed large sums over the roulette
wheel, and who cared little for big
winnings or losses.
At one time when Fox was about
the game he declares he was a wit
ness to heavy play "Mr. Miller” was
making, and was told that he was
$11,000 winner. Fox says “Miller,”
the wealthy show owner, was play
ing twice when he was escorted to
the room in wihich the roulette wheel
was kept where he himself played
with such marked success, winning
the $2(5,000 which he tried to claim,
and was sent after $20,000 before he
could “take it down."
Ryan was connected with the opera
tions of the old Buckfoot foot race
operators tlhat piled their game in
this city a number of years ago, un
til prosecuted and driven out. Later
Ryan abandoned the game, and made
this his home. He has many influen
tial friends in Hot springs, and these
responded readily when he was call
ed on to answer charges in the United
States court at Council Bluff more
than a year ago.
According to the story Fox tells,
he was lured into tthe Indiana Club
to play at a roulette wheel, which it
was confided to him was crooked, or
that the “dealer” would be crooked
and make him win. Fox is supposed
to have fallen for the game, to have
gone there and played, and to have
won $26,700 in a remarkably short
time.
When he went to cash his Checks
he was told that the management did
not feel like paying out such a large
sum of money when it had no as
surance that If Fox had lost he
would (have been able to pay. Fox de
clared his ability to pay if he had
lost, and to prove ,r rushed off to
Indiana, where he got $20,000 and
came back to prove his ability to
pay—and take down the $2(5,700 win
nings.
When Fox took bis money to the
“club he paid It over as assurance,
and was given a due bill for $46,760,
the sum of his winnings, and the
sum he had paid in, but one of the
confidence men steering him played
the "due bill” at a turn of the wheel
and lost it. Fox later realised he
had been buncoed.
The particular part Ryan is charg
ed with playing in this trick, is not
specified, other than he was supposed
to be "Miller of 101 iranch” and play
ing fortunes at the wheel, to show
as evidence before Fox that It was
big game. Fox described Ryan, it
is said, accurately when he first re
ported the case, but wanted to be
certain, and waited for an oppor
tunity to see hirri on the street and
identify him. Wednesday Fox saw
Ryan, identified him to his attorneys,
and yesterday the warrant was sworn
out.
Frank P. Fox, of Terre Haute, who
was swindled out of $20,000 in this
city by confidence men about ten
days ago. was yesterday made the de
fendant in a $25,000 damage suit for
defamation of character.
Arthur Slavin, manager of the In
diana Club, and who among five was
named by Fox as th£ men who had
swindled him, Is the plaintiff in the
action.
This startling development yester
day, and the fact that, this morning
the preliminary hearing of the men
accused will take place in the county
court room of the court house, are
other development* in the sen
sation that started Hot Springs to
make a house-cleaning that had long
before been overdue.
The suit tiled by Slavin shows that
Attorney Huff, Leslie and Ryan are
his representatives. It sets up that
Fox charged him with grand larceny,
and that Fox gave interviews to the
press concerning him and bringing
him into disrepute r.mong his asso
ciates.
Slavin charges in the complaint
that he should have $10,000 for actual
damages and $25,000 for punitive
damages. He declares he is held up
to public hatred and his good name is
injured.
Fox, when asked about the action,
had nothing to say, hut referred the
situation to this attorney John Hickey,
who took tile matter lightly. He re
gards the damage suit as of very lit
tle consequence to tlio situation, and
will defend it nt the proper time.
Much attention will lie attracted to
the preliminary hearing this morning
at 10 o’clock before Justice Hardy
Hinton. The prosecution will lie
ready to enter into the merits of the
charges they fhave made, and will In
sist that the preliminary investiga
tion be taken up.
If the defendants are ready to meet
the issues, there is little doubt hut
that Hie court will be taking evidence
mi the issue within less than an hour
after the ease is called.
As to the two missing men rtharg
ed in the warrants, the prosecution
had nothing further to say yesterday
except that the missing men would
not lie permitted to get away, and
that an arrest at any time was ex
pected.
It is known that proper processes
of law for Hie two missing men charg
ed have been issued and placed in
l he proper hands, and the service on
them Is said to be only a question of
a short time.
Because of the crowd that will like
ly attend the hearing this morning
it Is announced that it will take
place in the county court room at
the court house, where there Is am
ple accommodations for the. hearing
of such a ease.
WOULD SHIP BABIES
BY THE PARCELS POST
POSTMASTER GENERAL ASKED
TO DESIGNATE THE PROPER
WRAPPING FOR INFANT.
Washington, Jan. 16.—The mailing
of babies by parcel post Is a real in
fant Industry which Pastmaster Gen
eral \Hltchcock Is asked to foster.
In the circumstances of his bache
lorship, Mr. Hitchcock is considering
the calling Into consultation of ex
perts in the transiwirtatlon of babies
as a letter which he received today
presents to him a problem with
which die is quite unfamiliar. To add
to his embarrassment the letter con
tains a note of genuine pathos which
appeals strongly to the postmaster
general is a letter identicniy as it
was phrased and punctuated:
“Fort McPherson, Ga.
"Postmaster General:
“Washington, 1). G.
“Sir:—I have been corresponding
with a party in Pa., about gutting a
baby to rais, (our Home being with
out One) May I ask you what speci
fications to use in wrapping so It
(Raiiy) would comply with regula
tions and he allowed shipment by par
cel post as the express Go., are to
rough in handling your,-—"
The name signed * the, (ether is
withheld at the request of Mr. Hitch
cock. As babies in the opinion of tdie
postmaster general do not tali Jfd(hin
the category of bees and ^iru/thf!
only live things that may !:■ ^ans*
ported by mail, he is apprebihsivo
he may not. be of assistance to his
correspondent.
BASE BALL INVABES
PROGRESSIVE ARENA
COMMISSION SUGGESTS PLANS
FOR SAFEGUARDING OF PLAY
ERS IN ALL uEAGUES.
Chicago, Jan. 16.—The progressive
spirit struck baseball today when the
; National Commission, at a brief ses
[ sion here heard its chairman, August
Herrmann, advocate a guarantee for
all players salaries in “lesser minor
leagues,” and considered the pro
posed uniform contract designed to
protect unsuspecting players from
“jokers.”
The cotrimiswion too'/, no action on
the contract matter—In fact nearly
all of the country’s baseball business,
so far as Uhe “supreme court” is con
cerned, was left unfinished when the
commission adjourned sine die this
after re-electing Mr. Herrmann.
Illness of James Farrell, of Auburn,
N. Y.. secretary of the National As
sociation, who has not been able
since early last month to prepare pre
liminary cases of pla>ers' appeals to
the commission, caused the postpone
ment of their consideration, as well
ub other matters.
None of the members of the com
mission would admit that tftie class
AA salary question was brought up.
It was expected that the big minors
would enter a formal protest against,
the $6,000 monthly limit, but it was
said none was made.
ADVOCATES NO
BANKER WOULD PUT NO RE
STRAINT ON INDIVIDUALS TO
CONCENTRATE MONEY.
WOULD CURB CORPERATIONS
George M. Reynolds Tells Committee
That the Present Concentration
of Money is Becoming a Men
ace to the Country.
Washington, Jan. Ifi.—Liberty ot
individuals to concentrate money and
power to the limit of their ability was
advocated today before the house
money trust committee by Jacob H.
Sehiff, of the New York hanking firm
of Kuhn l.oeb and company. Mr.
Sehiff declared that individuals
should tie allowed .o exert their ut
most. efforts to concentrate fortunes
and power, until liiie laws of nature
caused the attempted monopoly to
fall of Its own weight, ife was op
posed, however, to concentration
through corporations and holding
companies. Mr. Sehiff could not say
w.iether concentration a*id as yet
reached a point where it is danger
ous.
The New York eanking financier
followed (ieo. M. Reynolds of Chi
cago on the stand. Mr. Reynolds
1 I old the committee that he hud stud
! ied the concentration of money and
credit and that h« believed, at the
point it had now reached it was a
menace to the progress of the coun
1 Iry. He said that competition in
hanking should be revived.
The committee adjourned after to
day's session until next Wednesday,
when H. 1’. Davidson, F. L. tltne,
George F. h Maker and other wit
nesses representing banks and bank
ing houses In New Ydrk and Chicago,
will be heard. The committee ex
pects to conclude its public hear
ings next Friday and to begin imme
diately the writing of its report.
When tttie committeu re-coaevnes,
plans for taking of the testimony of
Wm. Rockefeller wll. be made. In
the course of Mr. Schtff's examina
tion today, ho voiced the view
that depositors In banks were suffi
ciently protected under the present
law ‘‘if administered and kept up to
the teachings of experience."
He said that he could see no ob
jection to one banking Institution
selling securities to another bank,
which it owned. "Prudence,” he said,
"'would prevent the officers of a hank
trom accepting iuu much of a doubt
ful security." He thought this matter
could he safely left to the “self-re
specting men" on the hoard of direct
ors and that no further law was nec
essary.
"Then you think the less law. tbe
better for hanks and trust compan
ies?" aBked Mr. Untermyer.
"Yes," asserted Mr. Sehiff. "Too
much law can crush the life out of a
| bank."
I Mr. Sehiff said that he had observ
ed a concentration of the control of
[money and credit into the hands of a
1 few cortmrations during the last few
years, and tliiat the control of these
corporations had been centralized in
the hands of a fewr men.
“Has this been a subject of concern
to you?" asked Mr. untermyer.
"No, it has not.”
"Would that he a subject of con
cern to you if it continued to drift
until all control was in the same
hands?”
"I can't answer that question," said
Mr. Sehiff.
"Have you considered the possible
effect of this concentration on your
own credit?"
“I do not require credit,” Mr. Sehiff
replied.’
Mr. Sehiff said that he believed,
it would lie better If clearing houses
were incorporated.
Mr. Sehiff further said he would not
approve of one* nank owning an
other.
“As a rule. I tun opposed to all
holding companies.”
■'Why?" 1
“•Because they lead to concentra
tion. which, under our law and under
our conditions should uot be allowed.’'
was Mr. Schiff’s reply.
“I believe in Individual freedom,”
he said. “I believe the individual
should he allowed to do his best. If
he goes too far, the laws of nature
would interfere. The first great at;
tempt at monopoly was at the time
of the ’tower of Babel.’ tihat fell of
its own weight. Rvery law of nature
takes care of that and no law of man
is required."
“But have you ever thought what
would happen while this monopoly
was growing and when if fell of Its
own weight?”
“No. I have never thought of that.”
said Mr. Schiff.

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